What do you think happens after death?

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KlLLUMINATI:
If you do not beleive in an after life fine but do not act all greater than thou. Like you know something I do not.

So basically what you're saying is somehow people shouldn't talk about what they know, because you choose to deny that and find it uncomfortable to be confronted with denying such things.

Death doesn't really care what you think you. When you know, you'll cease to exist and rot away same as everybody else in this will sooner or later.

Heck, I'd like to have some fun and make myself usefull before I end up as glorified compost. Denying the inevitability of that seems like a pointless waste of precious time.

Blablahb:

KlLLUMINATI:
If you do not beleive in an after life fine but do not act all greater than thou. Like you know something I do not.

So basically what you're saying is somehow people shouldn't talk about what they know, because you choose to deny that and find it uncomfortable to be confronted with denying such things.

Death doesn't really care what you think you. When you know, you'll cease to exist and rot away same as everybody else in this will sooner or later.

Heck, I'd like to have some fun and make myself usefull before I end up as glorified compost. Denying the inevitability of that seems like a pointless waste of precious time.

No I do not care what anyone thinks or talks about. I do care about someone that thinks they know everything and if someone does not agree with them then that person is dumb/stupid.

KlLLUMINATI:
Wow you are very ignorant every single reason you have mentioned there is zero proof to back it up.Science is nothing more than a hypothesis there is no 'proof' or absolute 'truth' in science. When you find an absolute truth in science let me know.

And when you find ANY truth elsewhere, let me know.

Also, opening a thread on a debate forum and then being both unwilling and incapable of debating? Not the brightest move.

Uh...This thread is very strange. Anyway, I believe in a paradise after death for virtuous people. Then, some lesser afterlife...multiple afterlives. I don't know much about it.

I don't know that happens after death and I don't care. If I ascend to some higher plane of existence, that's fine with me. If I suffer in hell for whatever reason(s), well, I'm sure I got plenty of time on my hands to deal with this situation. If nothing happens at all, I can't complain about it, right?

Fact is, whatever happens after death - which is most probably absolutely nothing at all - doesn't have any impact on how I live my life. Maybe if I were religious ... nah, this is a path better not trod. We humans shouldn't need a concept like afterlife to give meaning to our lives or collect our rewards for doing good.

The short answer is that there's no reason to suspect that anything happens after death.

KlLLUMINATI:
Wow you are very ignorant every single reason you have mentioned there is zero proof to back it up.Science is nothing more than a hypothesis there is no 'proof' or absolute 'truth' in science. When you find an absolute truth in science let me know.

Science is closer to the capital-t Truth than your religious dogma ever will be precisely because it admits that it can never be absolutely certain. It's honest. We can never be absolutely certain about anything because, in the end, our entire reality might just be an elaborate computer simulation. Yet you have the gall to say that your religious explanation is "absolute truth." What's worse is that you haven't got a single iota of evidence to back up your claims of an afterlife. Neuroscience has been studying the brain in great detail for decades and has found no evidence whatsoever to indicate that our consciousness and feelings (or "soul," as I imagine you'd put it) are anything other than a manifestation of physical processes. Nothing indicates the existence of souls or afterlives. You even said in this thread that you're just basing your assertions on faith; there's no proof to be had. Yet you're lecturing us about how we're not "absolutely certain?" Give me a break.

KlLLUMINATI:
No I do not care what anyone thinks or talks about. I do care about someone that thinks they know everything and if someone does not agree with them then that person is dumb/stupid.

So you've basically already covered why I can't stand people who feel entitled to nag others about the silly religious myths they believe in despite of having the entire burden of evidence against them.

Fact is, the people who acknowledge there's no metaphysical afterlife have got the evidence on their side, the others do not. It's totally wrong attacking them for being right, like you were doing. Frustration over being unable to prove any religious myths one may believe in are entirely one's own problem.

Well, there are two options. You can get buried in the ground, in a coffin, or you can choose to be cremated. You get burnt and then your ashes are put into an urn. The latter is becoming increasingly popu- wait.

Oh I see what you mean. Blackness. Eternal blackness. Woo!

First of all I never stated what my beleif is. Second I couldn't care less why you cannot stand people you act as if your opinion counts.

Godavari:

KlLLUMINATI:
Wow you are very ignorant every single reason you have mentioned there is zero proof to back it up.Science is nothing more than a hypothesis there is no 'proof' or absolute 'truth' in science. When you find an absolute truth in science let me know.

Science is closer to the capital-t Truth than your religious dogma ever will be precisely because it admits that it can never be absolutely certain. It's honest. We can never be absolutely certain about anything because, in the end, our entire reality might just be an elaborate computer simulation. Yet you have the gall to say that your religious explanation is "absolute truth." What's worse is that you haven't got a single iota of evidence to back up your claims of an afterlife. Neuroscience has been studying the brain in great detail for decades and has found no evidence whatsoever to indicate that our consciousness and feelings (or "soul," as I imagine you'd put it) are anything other than a manifestation of physical processes. Nothing indicates the existence of souls or afterlives. You even said in this thread that you're just basing your assertions on faith; there's no proof to be had. Yet you're lecturing us about how we're not "absolutely certain?" Give me a break.

That is a fallacy of logic. You are assuming that there is no afterlife simply because a proof has not been offered. Your reasoning is fallacious because there may be another proof that successfully supports afterlife.

Personally, I plan to be cryonically frozen, so when I die I'm going to go into a really low-temperature freezer for a few centuries, and then I'll wake up in a future where everyone lives forever because of the advanced medical tech.

Well, probably not literally forever, since that's not really possible with the whole heat death of the universe.

So, in terms of what actually happens when your brain is permanently destroyed... absolute oblivion. You no longer exist in any sense, and cannot perceive anything because there is no you anymore to do the perceiving. It's not an awful prospect, since it really is a whole bunch of nothing, but I'd still like to get a couple thousand years of something before that. Singularity or bust!

Also, why is everyone responding to the KILLUMINATI guy? He's a troll, and you're feeding him! Do not feed the trolls!

Also, related note, can you report people for trolling or is it not quite obvious enough that I can get the mods on this guy?

KlLLUMINATI:
That is a fallacy of logic. You are assuming that there is no afterlife simply because a proof has not been offered. Your reasoning is fallacious because there may be another proof that successfully supports afterlife.

On the contrary. If anyone here is using fallacious reasoning, it is you. You assume that there is an afterlife despite the fact that proof has not been offered. There is no evidence for an afterlife, so what makes more sense: believing it, or rejecting it? The onus is not on me to prove, without a doubt, that the afterlife does not exist. It's your responsibility to show it to be true.

KlLLUMINATI:
That is a fallacy of logic. You are assuming that there is no afterlife simply because a proof has not been offered. Your reasoning is fallacious because there may be another proof that successfully supports afterlife.

Not quite. We're rejecting the idea that there is an afterlife because there's no evidence for one. It's the same basis for our rejection of, say, leprechauns, ghosts, fairies, dragons, unicorns, and Thor. We don't see a reason to believe in an afterlife. If someone provides a proof that there is an afterlife which is actually convincing, we will change our minds. We will admit that we were wrong and start believing. But until then, it's simply irrational to believe anything beyond what we can actually verify.

Imagine if I ran up to you and said, "Look out, the Ravenous Gorkelplax is after you! If you don't give me $100, it's going to eat you!" Would you give me $100 on faith? I hope not.

I believe that everyone who follows the bible will go to the paradise that is heaven, and everyone who doesn't follow the bible is burned in hell for eternity, tortured by demons.

I find that thought comforting.

Zekksta:
I believe that everyone who follows the bible will go to the paradise that is heaven, and everyone who doesn't follow the bible is burned in hell for eternity, tortured by demons.

I find that thought comforting.

I'm hoping this is a Poe, but on the off-chance; which bible? Would it be, coincidentally, the one you were brought up to believe in/adopted during a time of significant stress?

SOLVE: pyrrhic victory, oh how apt, there is no other kind with religious whackadoodles.

KlLLUMINATI:
What do you think happens after death?

It's hard to imagine oneself just ceasing to exist, in either physical or spiritual/energy form

It is? You did it for billions of years before you were born.

Nudu:

KlLLUMINATI:
What do you think happens after death?

It's hard to imagine oneself just ceasing to exist, in either physical or spiritual/energy form

It is? You did it for billions of years before you were born.

Why do people assume that we didn't exist for Billions of years? In other forms of energy yes, we existed, as energy is not created or destroyed, it is only transformed. We are a part of the energy that makes up the universe, thus we too are not created or destroyed only transformed as well. Why would the laws of physics apply only to everything but Humans? From our teachings and history, we were everything that came before us, and we will be everything that comes ahead.

Your mind goes blank, like when you've been knocked out, but forever. And your body decays and returns to the Earth yadda yadda yadda.

ALTHOUGH, I am open to the idea that some electrical and chemical signals in your brain may linger on a bit longer, so theoretically preserving your memories or other brain information stuff or some shit like that.

You just die, there is no soul, just a personality carved from past experience which resides in your brain and is killed off due to oxygen starvation at the point of death

Lil devils x:
Why do people assume that we didn't exist for Billions of years? In other forms of energy yes, we existed, as energy is not created or destroyed, it is only transformed. We are a part of the energy that makes up the universe, thus we too are not created or destroyed only transformed as well. Why would the laws of physics apply only to everything but Humans? From our teachings and history, we were everything that came before us, and we will be everything that comes ahead.

There's no "energy" unique to a human that isn't explained by their current calorific content. It's more accurate to say that living beings are systems that require, and convert, energy. And when we die? Metabolic processes cease, our thermal energy undergoes exponential decay until our temperature flatlines with the ambient temperature, and once our fat-rich cells have rotted away, you're left with an inert skeleton. If this "energy" idea was an appeal to ownership of a soul, I'm afraid it isn't a scientifically convincing one.

massive time dilation at the point of death due the release of the drugs normally held in retention within the brain and a whole lot of hallucinating.

I agree with most people on here in that you just cease being. Nothing. But I agree with you, it is very difficult to wrap my mind around that. Not logically, but in the human way. You know, what would it be like for my consciousness to be suddenly slipped out from underneath me? Everything that made me me aside from my carcass would suddenly be gone. I'm pretty sure that is what's going to happen, but I can't wrap my mind around it.

However, I do believe the brain is a powerful thing. As people die (assuming it is not a quick or accidental death), often people will talk to people who aren't there and will seem to be half gone already and of course, everyone knows of the people who die on the operating table or something and see visions and when they are revived they tell everyone all about it. I think there is some mechanism in the brain to cope with death. A defense mechanism of sorts. The brain concocts a hallucination of an after life to help it rationalize its own demise. We create defense mechanisms for all other aspects of life; I don't see why it would be so irrational for the mind to create one for death, the ultimate end. Wouldn't the end seem better if you knew everything would be okay?

well its obvious, you are reborn as a pony to be shown in episodes on the hub. The funeral on MLP was actually someone in real life being born. However, if you are not a brony you are reborn as crackle.

image

That's obviously what happens.

On a serious note: I do not know. I remain open to it, but I doubt one exists.

I`d like to believe that the book What Dreams May Come is essentially a very accurate description. You will end up where your soul truly believes it should end up. For some that means `Heaven`, or whatever they pictured it as. For me, that would be Summerland.

Lil devils x:
Why do people assume that we didn't exist for Billions of years? In other forms of energy yes, we existed, as energy is not created or destroyed, it is only transformed. We are a part of the energy that makes up the universe, thus we too are not created or destroyed only transformed as well. Why would the laws of physics apply only to everything but Humans? From our teachings and history, we were everything that came before us, and we will be everything that comes ahead.

Well, first of all energy is a quantity, not a "thing" in the traditional sense. But yes, you are correct in saying that the atoms that make up our bodies did not simply appear out of nothing when we were born. And I would agree with you if you told me you think it's incredible how every atom in our body can be traced back to an enormous supernova billions of years ago. (Just watch Neil Degrasse Tyson talk about it.)

But a person is not "matter" in the general sense. Rather, we are a specific composition of matter. You, me, a porcupine and Alpha Centauri are very specific compositions of matter, and if those compositions break up that thing ceases to be.

Nudu:

Lil devils x:
Why do people assume that we didn't exist for Billions of years? In other forms of energy yes, we existed, as energy is not created or destroyed, it is only transformed. We are a part of the energy that makes up the universe, thus we too are not created or destroyed only transformed as well. Why would the laws of physics apply only to everything but Humans? From our teachings and history, we were everything that came before us, and we will be everything that comes ahead.

Well, first of all energy is a quantity, not a "thing" in the traditional sense. But yes, you are correct in saying that the atoms that make up our bodies did not simply appear out of nothing when we were born. And I would agree with you if you told me you think it's incredible how every atom in our body can be traced back to an enormous supernova billions of years ago. (Just watch Neil Degrasse Tyson talk about it.)

But a person is not "matter" in the general sense. Rather, we are a specific composition of matter. You, me, a porcupine and Alpha Centauri are very specific compositions of matter, and if those compositions break up that thing ceases to be.

Yes, I agree we are all a compostion of matter. However, I do not believe that when those compositions break up, "we" cease to be. We are transformed into our next form. I do not believe that Humans are "separate or unique" from everything else, but a part of the whole.

The History of my people tells us that we were the animals that came before us, and were transformed into " present humans" and will continue to be transformed again into our next form. Unlike most of civilizations version of history, the tribes history goes back to what civilization considers prehistory. We believe that we communicated as aminals, and throughout our transformations into what we are now, and kept that history. We do not view "animals" as beneath us, but as equals. I know it is difficult for many to understand, but we view ourselves as a part of the whole universe, not "separate from it".

Our view of the "afterlife" is what we will be forced to deal with when we return, and that we must put back more into the earth than we take out of it, as to not suffer in the future.

Basically, we are not going anywhere, you reap what you sow. If you sow nothing, when you come back, you will have to deal with that. We view every composition of matter as just a part of the whole, and is everchanging. We do not consider breaking it up and transforming it as "ceasing to be". We actually view the transformations as a celebratory ocassion, not a bad thing.

We pretty much view people as like you would an organ in the body. Yes it has it's own function, own shape, but is only a very small part of the whole being, not separate from it.

Part of the misunderstanding between the cultures is that "the traditional sense" does not apply to "our traditional sense". You have to look at it through new eyes, because it is not based on the history you were taught. LOL

Well, if you dressed as a pirate on Fridays and prayed to his noodliness, you spend eternity sunbathing on the beer volcano with the strippers from the holy stripper factor.
Praise his noodliness!

Lil devils x:

Yes, I agree we are all a compostion of matter. However, I do not believe that when those compositions break up, "we" cease to be. We are transformed into our next form. I do not believe that Humans are "separate or unique" from everything else, but a part of the whole.
...

No comment or response for my previous reply about this (21 March)?

Look, I'm happy with people believing whatever fruity codswallop they want (as long as it doesn't negatively affect me, and for what it's worth I've heard considerably weirder theories than yours), but when you start bastardising science to legitimise your smug, conveniently culture-specific metaphysics then I lose sympathy. Humans use energy, we aren't energy. We don't emit any radiation other than the heat of our bodies. No "soul" or "chi" or "aura" has ever been detected by any measuring equipment, and considering you think we are some kind of eternal, celestial beings of pure energy you'd think that the science that's good enough to map out backround radiation of the Big Bang and to accurately photograph the third hair on the second leg of the left side of a dust mite ought to be positively overwhelmed by the cosmic "energy" that we emit 24 hours of the day. Sadly, no such "energy" has ever been recorded, which means the rest of your theories on tramsutation, reincarnation and so on are nothing more and nothing less than comforting folk tales.

I admit that I have precious little respect for your (or anyone else's) religious beliefs but what I'm attacking is your astonishingly poor science, and the science of every other person who uses new-age catchphrases like "vibrations", "energy" and "magnetism" without the scarcest regard to their actual, scientific meaning.

Batou667:

Lil devils x:

Yes, I agree we are all a compostion of matter. However, I do not believe that when those compositions break up, "we" cease to be. We are transformed into our next form. I do not believe that Humans are "separate or unique" from everything else, but a part of the whole.
...

No comment or response for my previous reply about this (21 March)?

Look, I'm happy with people believing whatever fruity codswallop they want (as long as it doesn't negatively affect me, and for what it's worth I've heard considerably weirder theories than yours), but when you start bastardising science to legitimise your smug, conveniently culture-specific metaphysics then I lose sympathy. Humans use energy, we aren't energy. We don't emit any radiation other than the heat of our bodies. No "soul" or "chi" or "aura" has ever been detected by any measuring equipment, and considering you think we are some kind of eternal, celestial beings of pure energy you'd think that the science that's good enough to map out backround radiation of the Big Bang and to accurately photograph the third hair on the second leg of the left side of a dust mite ought to be positively overwhelmed by the cosmic "energy" that we emit 24 hours of the day. Sadly, no such "energy" has ever been recorded, which means the rest of your theories on tramsutation, reincarnation and so on are nothing more and nothing less than comforting folk tales.

I admit that I have precious little respect for your (or anyone else's) religious beliefs but what I'm attacking is your astonishingly poor science, and the science of every other person who uses new-age catchphrases like "vibrations", "energy" and "magnetism" without the scarcest regard to their actual, scientific meaning.

Obviously you do not read the words that are written, and choose to translate them into your own twisted meaning of what you think they mean rather than what is actually being stated.

I very well understand their scientific meaning, but you do not seem to understand the meaning of what I am telling you. Auras or chi have no relevance to anything I have discussed thus far, as we have no word for such things in Hopi. What we do believe however, is that in time science will catch up to what we already know from our knowledge of our previous civilaztion. You cannot sit there and tell me you know of every particle that exists, because we have not yet rediscovered them all. for example:
http://news.discovery.com/space/is-the-sun-emitting-a-mystery-particle.html

What we were actually taught is that we have already reached higher levels of technology in the past and that we will not even make it that far during this age. We were not taught this as "religion" but as the history of the earth. You obviously do not know much about the tribes, history or beliefs to make such assumptions. I have not researched "new age" nonsense and do not share your twisted view of the history of the people of the earth. Not sure where you are getting your nonsense about vibrations, magnetism or energy in relation to the Hopi.

Transformation, reincarnation and such as far as I have learned equates to "evolution" in your terms.

Lil devils x:
Obviously you do not read the words that are written, and choose to translate them into your own twisted meaning of what you think they mean rather than what is actually being stated. ... What we do believe however, is that in time science will catch up to what we already know from our knowledge of our previous civilaztion.

Is there any evidence of this scientifically superior previous civilisation? Because I'd be gullible to take claims like this at face value, and so would you.

Transformation, reincarnation and such as far as I have learned equates to "evolution" in your terms.

Evolution is a completely un-mystical, unremarkable principle of things that die less tend to reproduce more. It only takes on any really interesting aspects when looked at over a timescale of millennia. Again, any suggestion that there's any aspect of reincarnation or recycling of souls going on here is unfounded.

Batou667:

Lil devils x:
Obviously you do not read the words that are written, and choose to translate them into your own twisted meaning of what you think they mean rather than what is actually being stated. ... What we do believe however, is that in time science will catch up to what we already know from our knowledge of our previous civilaztion.

Is there any evidence of this scientifically superior previous civilisation? Because I'd be gullible to take claims like this at face value, and so would you.

Transformation, reincarnation and such as far as I have learned equates to "evolution" in your terms.

Evolution is a completely un-mystical, unremarkable principle of things that die less tend to reproduce more. It only takes on any really interesting aspects when looked at over a timescale of millennia. Again, any suggestion that there's any aspect of reincarnation or recycling of souls going on here is unfounded.

Actually the way we view space and time is by millions of years, and look at the present as a very short time in the whole of it all. According to our history, at the end of the destruction of our 3rd world, (or age by your standards) we came to this land and built the "great city in the south" as a place of learning and to hold some of the knowledge of the previous age. Once it was built it was to be abandoned as we started our new lives in this current 4th world (or age). According to what I was taught, we caused great destruction and despair with our technology, and chose to take a more environmentally healthy lifestyle instead. That we made a choice to abandon our previous ways in order to live healthier lives.

The great city in the south is considered by our people to be the location of where the mayan calandar was found. It was meant to be a time capsule to preserve our previous knowledge, thus why the calandars long count is 63 million years, and not shorter periods like most calandars.

As for evolution being " unmystical or unremarkable" you still have a long way to go in understanding the how and why of it all to have such a view. It is a quite amazing process that should be celebrated.

I don't like the ceasing to exist thing. It's incredibly depressing and unimaginably scary. It's so scary that my brain simply refuses to accept it. I can't imagine what not existing would be like. Would I just be seeing an empty sea of black forever, or would it be even worse than that, being trapped in a sea of black with no memories or thoughts? I like thinking! I know other people here do too.

I'm more of a pro-choice mormon. I believe that some kind of deity will give you a choice between reincarnation and getting your own universe to do with what you please when you die. And then you choose. I don't know what the god interface would look like, but we have programs here that definitely simulate deity likeness. Also, god doesn't have any behavior dictating rules. That too.

And it's still way better than simply ceasing to exist in any form other than memories. Even if that does happen, I don't like having to accept that. Hell, at least with the whole reincarnation/custom universe choice I have something to look forward to, even if it's not true.

What the hell would non existence look like anyways? Black screen? Static? What? It's just a horrible horrible way to exist or not exist or whatever.

Racecarlock:
I don't like the ceasing to exist thing. It's incredibly depressing and unimaginably scary. It's so scary that my brain simply refuses to accept it. I can't imagine what not existing would be like. Would I just be seeing an empty sea of black forever, or would it be even worse than that, being trapped in a sea of black with no memories or thoughts? I like thinking! I know other people here do too.

And it's still way better than simply ceasing to exist in any form other than memories. Even if that does happen, I don't like having to accept that. Hell, at least with the whole reincarnation/custom universe choice I have something to look forward to, even if it's not true.

What the hell would non existence look like anyways? Black screen? Static? What? It's just a horrible horrible way to exist or not exist or whatever.

I agree. I don't believe in god, but I want to believe in an afterlife.

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