'Castration in Catholic institutions'

The rage about stuff the catholic church pulled regarding child abuse has been ongoing for a while. The church covers it up and tries to work against prosecution of perpetrators. It's horrid.

But just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, it does.

Today, leading Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad revealed their research into a major scandal regarding the catholic church.

Here in the Netherlands, the child abuse scandal has lead to the creation of the Deetman committee to look into it, but criticised for containing pro-catholics and not having any force of law (such as hearings under oath). Deetman Committee proceeded to dig up many cases of abuse, but as it turns out, they ignored this story, but the NRC did not.

Leading to this news article:
http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2012/03/17/jongens-binnen-r-k-kerk-gecastreerd-wegens-homoseksueel-gedrag
Translation follows:

Boys in catholic church castrated for homosexual behaviour

In the catholic church, in the 50's, boys, minors, have been castrated. Doing that was meant to cure them from their homosexual tendencies. In at least one case it involved a boy who had been sexually abused by catholic brothers [meaning priests, is this an accurate translation?] in a boarding schools. This was shown in research by the NRC Handelsblad, with indications of there being at least ten more cases.

The Deetman committee had been informed of this case in writing, but did not include it in their final report.
[...]

The newspaper looked into the report by Cornelius Rogge, which involved abuse victim Henk Heithuis. Heithuis filed charges with the police in 1956 of abuse in a catholic boys boarding school in Harreveld in Gelderland [province]. After testifying, the police delivered him to a catholic psychiatric institution Huize Padua in the Brabantic [province] village Boekel, where he was castrated for homosexual behaviour.

Also sensitive information about former prime minister Marijnen omitted from Deetman report

Information on the castrations is not the only thing left out of the final report of the committee. Deetman also omitted sensitive information about Vic Marijnen, politician in the Katholieke Volkspartij KVP [catholic people's party]. Marijnen, minister from 1959, prime minister in 1963, was untill 1959 director of the boarding school where Heithuis and tens of other pupils were sexually abused. From a confidential report of the Deetman committee it showed that it was discovered in archives that Marijnen attempted to keep catholic brothers convicted for sexual abuse out of prison.
[...]

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End of translation
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On a related note for those interested, the NRC has an English-based e-mail adress for inquiries and questions, found here.

Several media reported in the afternoon that in the face of this scandal, the Dutch parliament may be creating a parliamentary report on this subject (a research that has significant force of law such as compulsory summons and hearings under oath).
There had been wide demand for such a parliamentary research, but it was blocked on the initiative of the Christian CDA party, quoting trust in the Deetman committee as one of the main reasons not to.
In the light of these circumstances, it's doubtfull the CDA and especially their coalition partners the far more secular liberal VVD, and populist leftwing PVV parties will maintain their opposition now that the Deetman committee has been shown to not only not having dug deeper, but also to have covered up the truth.


Now I'm not deeply familiar with the research into this stuff in other countries, like for instance Ireland.

Does anyone know if similar scandals of castration and other violence against homosexuals by the churches has been uncovered?

Just when I thought I couldn't despise the institution any further, something ELSE comes up that just adds to it.

I could not have been prouder when the Taoiseach in Ireland told the Vatican where to go shove it (diplomatically of course) and the fact we are pulling our embassy there can only be a good thing.

This was back in the 50's, when this was seen as a bit more usual (the British government forced Alan Turing to be chemically castrated, and still won't apologise for it). This is the first time I've heard of castration, but I suppose you can probably count the Holocaust amongst the Church's sins, more specifically how they maintained neutrality. I'm fairly sure homosexuality was singled out along with the Jews and Gypsies.

Back in the 50s it is worth noting that Homosexuality was viewed as a form of madness and that governments were trying to exterminate it. Official propaganda made no difference between a paedophile and a homosexual, just as the religious populists in Africa do today.

While I despise the catholic church I see nothing extraordinary in what they have done in this case.

As is mandatory when explaining these things, please enjoy boys beware, a bit of 50s propaganda against homosexuals:

IDK about castration, but a google search of 'abuse of homosexuals by the Catholic church' should be pretty fruitful.

Blablahb:
The rage about stuff the catholic church pulled regarding child abuse has been ongoing for a while. The church covers it up and tries to work against prosecution of perpetrators. It's horrid.

But just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, it does.


Now I'm not deeply familiar with the research into this stuff in other countries, like for instance Ireland.

Does anyone know if similar scandals of castration and other violence against homosexuals by the churches has been uncovered?

That is fucking rancid. It's one thing to know that this kind of shit happened, it's another to hear the specifics of it. I don't really have anything to add, except that the Church is still trying to deny responsibility all over the world.
There are copies of letters and transcripts of meetings that are discussing how the Church can't officially admit that this kind of thing has happened, because that would leave the church open to prosecution and tarnish it's reputation.
And there are some allegations that eminent Catholics like Mother Teresa, and the current and previous Popes knew all about these crimes for years, and didn't do anything about it.
It's really disgusting.

And thanks for taking the time to translate, 'priest' (and possibly vicar) is indeed the correct translation

If you want good people to do evil things, you need religion.

It makes it slightly better that this occurred in the 50s, but still. Some hardcore abuse happening there. And how sick can they get? Let's sexually molest a boy, and then castrate him because he shows homosexual tendencies.

I'd like to see how the Church manages to one-up themselves on this one. We've seen them rape kids, rape women, and rape nuns. What's next? Bestiality?

I'm sorry, how does this thing happening in the fifties make it "slightly better"? It's fucking horrible. The Catholic Church should be held accountable for their bullshit.

Pingieking:
If you want good people to do evil things, you need religion.

What a staggeringly ignorant statement.

No sensible person would deny that any number of evil things have been done in the name of a religion or justified by a religion. Nor would any sensible person in this day and age (Because it's important to remember that these cases come from 60 years ago, when understanding of homosexuality was very different) say that castrating children for demonstrating homosexual activity is barbaric, and that castrating children who have been sexually abused would be laughably barbaric if it weren't so tragic.

But one does not need religion to get good people to do evil things. One doesn't even need ideology.

Take the Ukrainian Holodomor, for example, when between 2.4 and 7.5 million Ukrainians died in a man-made famine that occurred under Stalin's rule. There are widespread reports from this time of cannibalism. Do you think every one of those people who ate human flesh was already evil? Do you think they were caused to do so by religion? If you are sensible, you surely do not.

There are many reasons good people might do bad things, and your comment shows nothing more than a childish need to attack a false generalization. Which is sad, because this case involves real people who have experienced real suffering. They deserve better than to be treated as toys for random keyboard warriors' personal political grudges.

OneCatch :

There are copies of letters and transcripts of meetings that are discussing how the Church can't officially admit that this kind of thing has happened, because that would leave the church open to prosecution and tarnish it's reputation.

This argument that the church uses....I think it's a retarded stance for them to take.

They say they're afraid of their reputation being tarnished...But don't they GET that by not prosecuting and turning over these people, they're tarnishing their reputation even more?

If they refuse to have these pedo-abuse-priests face justice, then they're basically ENCOURAGING this behavior and setting an example that it IS ok to do!

By admitting that it's a problem and taking steps, they would show that it's unacceptable, and that this behavior is against what they stand for. Tarnish their reputation? Bull. If they recognized the problem and took action, all it would do is prove that their priests are only human, and that some of them are scum that they are taking action to punish and kick out.

And if they go with the "but we must forgive everyone!" answer...Well...Forgiveness is up to the victim and to God, right? So what right do THEY have to absolve this person, especially if they offend repeatedly?

And then they go on to talk about how homosexuality is immoral...That's just hypocritical.

PercyBoleyn:
I'm sorry, how does this thing happening in the fifties make it "slightly better"? It's fucking horrible. The Catholic Church should be held accountable for their bullshit.

it doesn't make it better, but during the 50's homosexuals were treated incredibly bad, even in Europe by everyone not just the catholics. in fact there were only 6 countries in Europe that allowed full gay rights during the 50's all the rest still discriminated and passed laws against homosexuality.

keiskay:
it doesn't make it better, but during the 50's homosexuals were treated incredibly bad, even in Europe by everyone not just the catholics. in fact there were only 6 countries in Europe that allowed full gay rights during the 50's all the rest still discriminated and passed laws against homosexuality.

Okay, sure, but why does this matter? What the Catholic Church did was horrendous. We're not talking about what other people did back then, we're talking specifically about what they did.

Katatori-kun:
Do you think every one of those people who ate human flesh was already evil? Do you think they were caused to do so by religion? If you are sensible, you surely do not.

I agree that religion isn't the root of all evil I'm just curious as to why eating human flesh is evil, feel free to reply in a PM if you don't want to derail the thread.

PercyBoleyn:

keiskay:
it doesn't make it better, but during the 50's homosexuals were treated incredibly bad, even in Europe by everyone not just the catholics. in fact there were only 6 countries in Europe that allowed full gay rights during the 50's all the rest still discriminated and passed laws against homosexuality.

Okay, sure, but why does this matter? What the Catholic Church did was horrendous. We're not talking about what other people did back then, we're talking specifically about what they did.

as another poster pointed a government chemically castrated a man for being homosexual, and never apologized for it. the catholic church is only getting special treatment here because people want their axes to be pointy sharp. yes what they did was horrible but not in any way isolated or unique to just them at the time.

keiskay:
as another poster pointed a government chemically castrated a man for being homosexual, and never apologized for it.

And what's your point? The person responsible for that atrocity should also be punished.

keiskay:
t. the catholic church is only getting special treatment here because people want their axes to be pointy sharp. yes what they did was horrible but not in any way isolated or unique to just them at the time.

Except the Catholic Church has been actively attempting to cover up numerous cases of abuse by their employees and have been doing so for quite some time. That's why people are so up in arms against it.

Katatori-kun:

Pingieking:
If you want good people to do evil things, you need religion.

What a staggeringly ignorant statement.

No sensible person would deny that any number of evil things have been done in the name of a religion or justified by a religion. Nor would any sensible person in this day and age (Because it's important to remember that these cases come from 60 years ago, when understanding of homosexuality was very different) say that castrating children for demonstrating homosexual activity is barbaric, and that castrating children who have been sexually abused would be laughably barbaric if it weren't so tragic.

But one does not need religion to get good people to do evil things. One doesn't even need ideology.

Take the Ukrainian Holodomor, for example, when between 2.4 and 7.5 million Ukrainians died in a man-made famine that occurred under Stalin's rule. There are widespread reports from this time of cannibalism. Do you think every one of those people who ate human flesh was already evil? Do you think they were caused to do so by religion? If you are sensible, you surely do not.

There are many reasons good people might do bad things, and your comment shows nothing more than a childish need to attack a false generalization. Which is sad, because this case involves real people who have experienced real suffering. They deserve better than to be treated as toys for random keyboard warriors' personal political grudges.

The full context of that line was:
Under normal conditions, good people will do good things, evil people evil things. If you want to make good people do evil things, you need religion.

Firstly, I don't think cannibalism is evil. Secondly, Ukraine was hardly "normal conditions". I shouldn't have taken out the first half and I apologize for that.
That comment wasn't intended as an attack, merely an observation. If you disagree with it, that's cool. Up to now my experiences has not provided me with an example that invalidates the statement.
I don't mean to say that religion is the root of evil, nor do I think religions do no good.

It was during the 50's... if this scandal happened in the 21st century i would have been disgusted but the fact is that the institution changed a lot since the 50's. Let's not forget that in the 50's most societies despised gays, and this goes for everyone.

Was it wrong what they did? Most certainly. Does it say it anything about the current state of the institution? Don't think so. By this logic we could also villify any movement that somewhere in the past did something wrong. I guess we should hunt down our royal family because of the atrocities we committed in Congo back in them olden days?

generals3:

Was it wrong what they did? Most certainly. Does it say it anything about the current state of the institution? Don't think so. By this logic we could also villify any movement that somewhere in the past did something wrong. I guess we should hunt down our royal family because of the atrocities we committed in Congo back in them olden days?

The problem there is that the Vatican has changed as little as it could get away with. But when you decide ideology based on a ancient book of discrimination and slavery then this is the kind of stuff that happens.

generals3:
It was during the 50's... if this scandal happened in the 21st century i would have been disgusted but the fact is that the institution changed a lot since the 50's. Let's not forget that in the 50's most societies despised gays, and this goes for everyone.

Have they changed a lot?

Four charges have been pressed against 93 year old pastor Albert Rubrech from Putten (northern tip of the Dutch bible) over abuse in the 80's and 90's. He responded by saying "It's normal that if you deal with women or children, you get sexual matters. It's normal that a child is [sexually] attractive"*.

Cardinal Eijk promised to cooperate, but when the cameras were gone used the expiration date on charges to cheat his way out of paying reparations. WHile in the middle on the scandal he pledged to compensate victims, expired case or not.

Also another case I made a topic about a while back, there a witness who said children had been murdered in catholic institutions. According to him it was at least 20 children murdered in what a brother described to the witness as 'the death chamber'. The general prosecutors office was at the time already in an investigation over the abnormal high number of deaths, with 34 boys dying on top of what would statistically be expected.
The church involving itself in eugenics is another ugly chapter.

PercyBoleyn:
I'm sorry, how does this thing happening in the fifties make it "slightly better"? It's fucking horrible. The Catholic Church should be held accountable for their bullshit.

Not only that, but the policemen that facilitated this should be held responsible. What they did is the same as a victim of human trafficking pressing charges, and the police bringing them back to their pimp; they knew sick shit was going to happen, and still obeyed the church over the oath they sworn to the force.

If I hear that I'm thinking retroactively sacking them and stripping them of any pension rights gained in between, because any case of criminal negligence will have expired by now.

I wish the catholic church would just fuck off, stop trying to tell people how to live their own lives. Oh and actually READ the fucking bible before you deem it holy. Any woman who is catholic should read Deuteronomy, because according to that, rape isn't a crime as long as a man pays some money to her family after.

Esotera:
This was back in the 50's, when this was seen as a bit more usual (the British government forced Alan Turing to be chemically castrated, and still won't apologise for it). This is the first time I've heard of castration, but I suppose you can probably count the Holocaust amongst the Church's sins, more specifically how they maintained neutrality. I'm fairly sure homosexuality was singled out along with the Jews and Gypsies.

Not exactly, when you're surrounded on all sides by Fascist governments who would absolutely love to rip you apart the second you step out of line, there isn't much you can do... The vatican did, however, work to save what Jews they could. Forging baptism certificates and such, it's just something it doesn't like talking about on a whole.

Anyways, there needs to be some MAJOR reform in the vatican. Trying to cover this stuff up only makes it worse. There needs to be a Pope who counts to ten, holds his breath, releases all the info they've been hiding, and force each and every one of those priests to resign.

EDIT:

TizzytheTormentor:
I wish the catholic church would just fuck off, stop trying to tell people how to live their own lives. Oh and actually READ the fucking bible before you deem it holy. Any woman who is catholic should read Deuteronomy, because according to that, rape isn't a crime as long as a man pays some money to her family after.

Not exactly, the Catholic Church established during it's founding that any Gentile (which is... Pretty much every catholic today) who became a Catholic did not need to follow the Jewish laws in the slightest. So essentially the entire old testament no longer affects the church and is more or less used as a historical background for the New Testament now-a-days.

The next day, news has been coming in that not only the police were cooperating, but even the health inspection authority knew that this was happening, and did nothing about it.

There really needs to be a parliamentary research into this crap. It would be just crazy if everybody involved walked away unpunished. It more induces a 'heads must roll' sentiment in me to be honest, because this is beyond evil.

The news article of the NOS national new broadcaster:
http://nos.nl/artikel/353103-inspectie-wist-van-castraties.html

Translation:

'Inspection knew about castrations'

The Inspection Service for the Care of Mentally Handicapped knew that patients who were minors were being castrated by force in the 50's. On top of that, parents were not informed, or only afterwards. The De Limburger newspaper writes after gaining acces to records of conversations.
[...] (reference to earlier news articles)

Not telling beforehand

Records of the Limburg and Brabant [both are provinces] Catholic psychiatric instititutions show the inspection service knew of the existance of such practises. Directors of psychiatric institutions though that parents didn't need to be told on the beforehand if their child was being castrated [to 'cure' being homosexual].
[...]

 

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