Atheists can be real jerks sometimes

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So like every Atheist on the internet I find my way to the occasional religious debate and like every Atheist I often find myself with bedfellows (In the debate) who are a few steps far prejudice and overzealous.

Now giving religious people hell because they're wrong has always been fair game because lets face it. They're wrong about everything. But regardless of all of that their RIGHT to have a religion and to express it is pretty freaking important and anyone looking to infringe on that is an lunatic more dangerous than the most fanatical of religious fundamentalist.

So after nervously glaring at my Atheist "supporters" in religious debates as they tormented the blissfully ignorant religious people I just had to put the whole thing to the test.

So I spent about half a day reading up on Christianity, Catholicism more specifically.

Then I founded a World of Warcraft Guild based around Christianity. The guild was based on Christianity and its beliefs and rules and when advertising for the guild I specifically preached open mindedness, peace and tolerance towards everyone regardless of opinion, faith or race. I put on the most humble and self righteous fašade I could muster and responded only with utmost politeness and respect to any and all arguments and insults regardless how outrageous and offensive they where. I held mass every Sunday in the stormwind cathedral where I read out-takes from the bible like the ten commandments of solon;

1. Trust good character more than promises.
2. Do not speak falsely.
3. Do good things.
4. Do not be hasty in making friends, but do not abandon them once made.
5. Learn to obey before you command.
6. When giving advice, do not recommend what is most pleasing, but what is most useful.
7. Make reason your supreme commander.
8. Do not associate with people who do bad things.
9. Honor the gods.
10. Have regard for your parents.

I put a bit of a warhammer 40.000 spin on things by making references to things like heretics and "chapter" I also used latin names for things like Aurelius Augustinus because latin names just plain sound cooler. I even converted a few people to Catholicism.

Now the first thing I noticed is that many Atheists will attack religious people instantly regardless of what the religious people say or do. Personal character is never given consideration. If you have religion then you must be destroyed.

Many Atheists will blame current day Religious people for the crusades, the inquisition and the behaviour of individual priests against children.

I put forth the argument that each person is responsible for their own actions and must be judged individually and that you cannot blame a religion as a a whole for the actions of a few people who even clearly broke the rules of the faith they supposedly are a part of. I got laughed out of the room as apparently the church is responsible of the priests actions and not the priests themselves.

Many Atheists believe that Galileo was tortured by the church

Many Atheists believe that Galileo was burned by the church

Atheists can become so overcome by their personal beliefs that they will cast aside all reason and decency just to persecute people for having faith. They will do this with a fanatical zeal that could put any Crusader to shame.

The amount of abuse and intolerance I had to endure as a supposed open Christian on the internet was staggering. Posting 1 advert for my guild in a channel would often be followed up by 45 min of pure bile and abuse. With everything from accusations of mental retardation to down right personal threats.

No matter how polite or respectful I was towards my accusers they would never let up. Not a single inch. They just attack and attack and attack. And after spending 45 minutes of telling me a priest should rape me in the ass for being retarded enough to have religion. They threatened to report me because apparently being openly religious offends people and I am to blame for everything they say as a result of the offence they took.

And the offensive people are not the worst part. They are rude jerks out of ignorance. The worst people are the aware and educated decent people who in a very polite manner advice me to keep my faith secret for everyone's good. Because expressing my faith "stirred up trouble" and as such I should not do it. Its my fault. Not the people who threaten me for expressing it.

Atheists will enter a forum thread dedicated to advertising a Christian guild and then tell the OP of that thread to "stop forcing his religion on them" Do you see how insane that is?

I make a thread about Christianity. Atheists enter the thread and tell me to stop doing it.

Its like if I walked into a Christian persons house and told them to take down the Christ statues, that they have in their own freaking home.

You cannot even begin to understand what massive balls it takes to be a religious person on the internet. In fact the few religious people that are on the net are probably here because their medicine-ball size testicles prevent them from leaving the house.

So yeah that's my experiment. Still Atheist though. Just a little more cautious and open minded.

I sorta know what you mean. Not specifically attacking religious people, but all those people saying "I'm not an Atheist...I believe in Atheism/whatever, but I'm not going to call myself that because of ________".

To be fair, this applies to any movement or group, and there's no reason why people that choose to call themselves whateverist should be decent people. Except, of course, that it's the right thing to do.

I guess, congratulations for realising there are jerks in every group?
Was it that shocking? =S

A lot of people just suck, no matter their religious beliefs.

I've never harrassed someone for being religious, so I'm not quite sure what I can add (I have been harrassed for being an atheist, but that was a long while ago now).

I'm not sure what the discussion value is here... I mean, don't get me wrong, it was interesting to read.

I noticed I posted this in offtopic when I meant to post it in religion/politics. I searched, googled and sifted through the pages and it just realised.

There's no way to make contact with the staff around here is there? The report button won't let you specify what you report for. Its just a 1 click button.

No matter what viewpoint it is done under, is fanaticism ever a good thing?

Whether or not you're religious, you can still be a dick. I thought we'd already established that.

So, you realised that people are different even when they artificially divide themselves into groups. Also, any group can have jerks in it. Especially on the Internet.

Yeah, they aren't Atheists, they are anti theists.

Atheism is a lack of belief in god. that's it.

Anti theists are against religion in all it's forms. they don't even need to be Atheist to be anti theist.

Relish in Chaos:
Whether or not you're religious, you can still be a dick. I thought we'd already established that.

Pretty much this.

Dejawesp:
SNIP

I thought this was awesome, what a cool experiment you did. Made me really think.

Do one more experiment for me. Make the exact same guild. But atheist. I want to see the results. One where to join you must be atheist. One that opposes the gods. Im curious to see what reaction you would get.

Also can you provide links to this guild/thread?

Dejawesp:
People can be real jerks sometimes

Fixed that for you.

Really that's basically the gist of things. They're still people, and some people are jerks. You find them everywhere.

Did you account for the less extreme atheists simply disregarding your guild rather than attacking it or going up to you and saying HELLO I AM AN ATHEIST AND WHILE I DISAGREE WITH YOUR GUILDS VIEWS I AM NOT GOING TO VERBALLY ASSAULT YOU FOR IT BECAUSE I AM A MODERATE?

I think a lot of atheists that attack people for no good reason on the interwebs are ill informed, pretentious teenagers who have just decided to rebel against the structure of their family, or their society as a whole. It's a lot like emos attacking chavs or gangstas, it's not their way, therefore it is wrong. What they really are is anti-theists, but they don't understand the difference.
Then they have role models like Richard Dawkins, who doesn't help the situation, as he is a colossal dick and is worse than those extreme catholics who tell you you're going to hell at every opportunity.
And yeah, the internet has a high concentration of idiots.

Dejawesp:
I specifically preached open mindedness, peace and tolerance towards everyone regardless of opinion, faith or race.

Dejawesp:
I put a bit of a warhammer 40.000 spin on things by making references to things like heretics

Do you see the problem here?

I guess not...

BiscuitTrouser:

Dejawesp:
SNIP

I thought this was awesome, what a cool experiment you did. Made me really think.

Do one more experiment for me. Make the exact same guild. But atheist. I want to see the results. One where to join you must be atheist. One that opposes the gods. Im curious to see what reaction you would get.

Also can you provide links to this guild/thread?

Making an anti-theist guild would not really establish anything other than the relationship between anti-theist people and the reaction of religious people to people who publicly oppose them. What I wanted to study was the.

What I had observed before was that people claiming to be Atheist. Where more often than not. Anti-Theist. While preaching freedom from religion for themselves it very often manifests itself as intolerance towards other peoples beliefs. As if to the Anti-Theist freedom of/from religion only goes one day.

As for the Guild. I let it fall into inactivity and later disbanded it. It had some good people in at its peak and It would probably break their hearts if they ever found out that the whole thing was just an experiment. Even if it was some of the most fun RP I have ever had in the game.

GoaThief:

Dejawesp:
I specifically preached open mindedness, peace and tolerance towards everyone regardless of opinion, faith or race.

Dejawesp:
I put a bit of a warhammer 40.000 spin on things by making references to things like heretics

Do you see the problem here?

I guess not...

To be fair any mention of heretics was just a past tense mention of historical events and people to address negative figures and people. Its not like I jumped on people proclaiming them heretics. That would defeat the purpose.

I just found that people where a lot more likely to become engaged in a religious guild and religion in general if you took it to heart and acted as if all aspect of it had real world modern day consequences. Blessings and sermons for direct problem solving. None of this wishy/washy "What do you think god would do" But rather a straight interpenetration from the most non-violent parts of the bible and direct implementation.

What I like about the Warhammer 40.000 universe is its direct implementation of a strongly faith based system into a modern setting. Its very easy to get caught up in it and its a good example of how religion worked in the old days to convert and recruit members and such a fiery devotion does indeed work to inspire and turn people.

Dejawesp:
There's no way to make contact with the staff around here is there?

You can just PM a mod. Or report your post. The mod will most likely notice your fuck up and move the topic. I believe the mods do read every post that gets reported as opposed to just automatically suspending you, so yeah.

There atheism has nothing do with jerks, being jerks. There are disrespectful people from every religion, race and creed. Just ignore the ignorants and don't value what they have to say or there opinions. It's as simple as that.

Just because someone is athiest does not make them a bad person, or a hateful person.

I find a better distinction to be between decent people and idiots. If you're willing to go about your beliefs without the need to constantly bring them up and convert others to them, then you're a decent person. If you're the sort of person who thinks that what you believe makes you better than someone else regardless of your actual actions, then you're an idiot.

If you classify people by this, you suddenly gain a whole new perspective on the issue. It's somewhat enlightening.

Everyone can be a jerk sometimes, it's not limited to people's beliefs, it's just another stage to showcase their jerk-ness.

While some people have already gone over how atheism doesn't necessarily mean this, I'm going to add to that - antitheism isn't exactly the same as this kind of dickishness. Being antitheist is just being against theism/religion, which you can manage to do while being polite. Okay, no, it's a bit difficult and people tend to call you a douchebag anyway, note Richard Dawkins' current reputation, but you don't have to call people retards or wish for them to be raped.

We can be absolute jerks at times, but then so can the religious. It's all about striking a balance and respecting the beliefs of another person. Unfortunately in this society there are those not willing to accept another's viewpoint and it's up to us to make sure that they are the minority.

Yeah, atheists can be jerks. So can blacks. And gays. And all minorities and majorities.

Aside from the "YOU DON'T SAY??" thing, I'm truly appalled by your findings. That's just insane. I'm an atheist and an antitheist, but I have respect for other people's beliefs. I'm friends with several evangelical Christians. We'll debate about it sometimes, but there's never any vitriol. We're always polite and respectful.

There's no need to hateful towards theists. Let 'em believe what they want.

Dejawesp:
So like every Atheist on the internet I find my way to the occasional religious debate and like every Atheist I often find myself with bedfellows (In the debate) who are a few steps far prejudice and overzealous.

Ever hear of confirmation bias? Not related to this in any way, just wondering.

Anyway, one of the amazing things about the internet and religion (also generally speaking) is that it relies on self reporting to identify such traits.

You could probably make the same statement about most groups on the internet, due to said self-reporting nature. You rarely hear about quiet and respectful Christians or Muslims, either.

People only seem to complain about the groups that in some way disagree with them or their beliefs. In this case, they may not be your beliefs, but they are the ones related to your findings.

Here's a little thing you can try, just for fun:

Do the same thing, but pretend to be an atheist. See how many Christians attack you. My friends on Facebook make "Christian" posts all the time. I made one casually mentioning agnosticism as a test, and half my friend's list--my FRIENDS--jumped on me. I'm expected to turn the other cheek and be quiet about my beliefs, and they're expected to be hostile and verbal.

Now, I could say that Christians are jerks, or I could be more moderate and understand this works both ways (all ways, really) instead of complaining about how the other side is full of jerks and act like my brethren are without sin.

Hey, that's odd. Isn't that sort of a Christian tenet? Actually, I've referenced a couple. Really weird.

But I'll leave you with another religious sentiment, one I've always thought even atheists should live by. I think it's Matthew 7:3-5. I'll let you read up and think about it but personally, I've always thought it was better to make sure your vision was clear before attempting to address the vision of by neighbour.

Amethyst Wind:
No matter what viewpoint it is done under, is fanaticism ever a good thing?

I'm a fanatic anti-jerk. So... maybe?

Dejawesp:

I read out-takes from the bible

Like that bit in the book of genesis where God forgot his lines? ;D
14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day, um... from night, and let them... 15 shit, guys, I'm sorry. I thought I had this down."

I put forth the argument that each person is responsible for their own actions and must be judged individually and that you cannot blame a religion as a a whole for the actions of a few people who even clearly broke the rules of the faith they supposedly are a part of. I got laughed out of the room as apparently the church is responsible of the priests actions and not the priests themselves.

Man, if I had an organization, and someone acting, with my approval, as part the organization, suddenly decided to fail at their job, I'm fairly certain the organization would be legally blamable.

Let me tell you why I oppose religion, in a roundabout and rambling way.

I am fearful. Of many things, but, mainly, other people. I fear that, one day, they will begin acting irrationally and decide to just up and kill me. Thus, I am fearful of, and despise, things that remind me how irrationally people can behave. Like children, stupid people, and religion. So yeah.

I kind of understand their frustrations. Bringing real religions to an online videogame that already has a story should be a bannable offense.

The only reason atheist bring up Galileo and the crusades and such is only to establish a thought in others that religion in no way is related to morality, something that is often proclaimed, "Atheists have no morals," etc. Which is, of course, an absolute lie.

The Thinker:

Amethyst Wind:
No matter what viewpoint it is done under, is fanaticism ever a good thing?

I'm a fanatic anti-jerk. So... maybe?

Is that your call?

I'm not saying it might not be true but it's probably better to seek an outside view on this.

Also, a fearful paranoid fanatical anti-jerk sounds really quite dangerous.

royohz:
The only reason atheist bring up Galileo and the crusades and such is only to establish a thought in others that religion in no way is related to morality, something that is often proclaimed, "Atheists have no morals," etc. Which is, of course, an absolute lie.

Due to cognitive dissonance, it means little, though. That's why we have a political climate in America where "you can't trust an atheist," even though the prominent Christians are committing acts they claim are immoral.

There's no easy way to counteract that sort of thinking. It doesn't hurt that we're all notable serial killers.

Galletea:

Then they have role models like Richard Dawkins, who doesn't help the situation, as he is a colossal dick and is worse than those extreme catholics who tell you you're going to hell at every opportunity.

Aha, no.

OT: 1) That's the internet, 2) More specifically, that's World of Warcraft. That's not exactly indicative of anyone.

Although generally I think people have far less time for religion (and rightly so) and naturally, by extension, the religious - perhaps not rightly so, but understandably so. Especially when it comes to the Catholic church, as per your guild.

My opinion on this is that my religion is my own god damned business, and I would not force my belief in God down anyone's throats. It is the exact same thing I expect from everyone else.


I'm going to leave this here.

Why must we try to find differences with each other? I accept all humankind.

Yeah, I got a freind like that. Reguardless of what I say, in his eyes religon is the worst blight in the world.
I don't know if I would call myself a christian, I have done in the past, but I've got nothing wrong with it. Or athiesm.
But there are arseholes in every group. They just tend to be the loudest. Empty vessles and all that.

People can be real jerks sometimes.
Atheists are people.

The logic behind that is pretty simple, I don't really stand why this specific brand of douchebaggery is so particularly noteworthy.

Everyone can be a real jerk sometimes.

How about this as food for thought. You went around there preaching what many people see as utter nonsense and are met with opposition. Key words there - you went preaching. It's not like those people just started a random conversation in trade chat about how stupid religious people are or whatever, you brought this on yourself.

And I'll tell you what. It's a much more offensive practice to go around universities (or, heck, street) and bother people who don't want anything to do with you and your snake oils than what atheists ever did "in the name of atheism", as some would say.

Edit: I only read the first half of your post. It came off as "Oh my god, people respond negatively to silly ideas!", so that's as much effort as you get.

I have a devout Catholic friend who is a hypocritical fool.

I have an Atheist friend who is an arrogant snob.

I am an Agnostic who points flaws in both of them, but they're still my friends. For example, me and the Atheist friend agree that Agnosticism is another type of atheism, but this group is much less confrontational. He dislikes agnostics, beleiving they're just cowardly Atheists who go under a better name to avoid arguments.
The truth is, these arguments are completely pointless. Both sides are too arrogant to ever reach agreement.

I like true Christians. They kick ass! The kind who are just pure acceptance of others.

People will be stupid on the internet. I completely agree that you can't judge someone on their beliefs and I commend you for doing this experiment. Sadly, I don't think it will change much of anything.

Your voice is adding to many already decrying the douchebaggery, however. Maybe if we're loud enough about respecting others' beliefs, some difference will eventually be made. I honestly hope so.

Shocking! People with different beliefs can be arseholes? D: I never would have guessed!

Now dont get me wrong, im an Atheist myself. But i try to be a nice one.
See, Christian, Atheist, Muslim, Jewish..... I doesnt matter. >.>; HUMANS can be real jerks. I dont care what you believe, who you believe it with, and why you believe it. People in general can be terrible. There are jerks everywhere.

In short. Yes, atheists can be jerks. So can anyone who believes in religion. No one is immune to being a jerk based on what they believe. Even Buddhists can be jerks. Sure, its probably one of the rarest things on the planet, but its possible.

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