Seekster: I think everyone needs to chill and stop jumping to conclusions because there is a whole lot we do not know. Ill agree that this should have been investigated more earlier but it IS being looked into by a Grand Jury right now so let them do their job. Also knock it off with the stupid race baiting attempts. Do I even need to explain why trying to inject racism into this tragedy is ridiculous?
Welcome back Seek!
You're right of course the Sanford PD royally screwed the pooch on this. I hope though that it's not impossible to build a case now thanks to not only the Sanford PD's complete mishandling of this but also the media circus around it. I hope they can find enough juror candidates too. This isn't the only forum I'm involved in a Trayvon discussion on but it's also not unique in the majority siding against Zimmerman. Many have made up their minds. In the discussions I've participated in neither side seems very willing to budge.
Witty Name Here: The worst part is people are trying to demonize Trayvon now. Saying things like "Oh he's a druggie!" or "Oh, he's with the black panthers!"
Honestly, I'm disgusted by the amount of people trying to say things like "They found evidence that he had a bag that may have had some marijuana in it." So does that mean people have a right to murder him all of a sudden? No, not at all.
I think the whole thing is a tragedy that should have never happened. The demonization on both sides is just awful. They make Zimmerman out to be some 40+ year old white kkk member out hunting, and they make Martin out to be a gang banger. It is horrible. While I disagree with Zimmermans actions, I still do not condone the misinformation. Zimmerman should have never followed the guy, and Martin should not have attacked him. Either way, it is a terrible loss. A kid cut down in the prime of his life because a guy refused to follow police orders pretty much sums it up for me.
Witty Name Here: The worst part is people are trying to demonize Trayvon now. Saying things like "Oh he's a druggie!" or "Oh, he's with the black panthers!"
Honestly, I'm disgusted by the amount of people trying to say things like "They found evidence that he had a bag that may have had some marijuana in it." So does that mean people have a right to murder him all of a sudden? No, not at all.
Well yeah that would be wrong too but pointing out that he wasnt the pure choir boy that the Al Sharpton types tried to make him out to be is not demonizing him, its also not relevant to the case.
You could also turn it around and say that ok Zimmerman probably should have stopped following Martin when the police told him to stop. Still even though he kept following him it doesnt automatically make him a murderer or a racist. We need to look at the facts of the case and not jump to conclusions on our own.
No but what does make him seem like a murderer and a racist is that he followed a young african american man just under the guise of him looking "suspicious" and towards the end of his call to the police, he said something that sounded awfully close to "F*cking Coon" (a derogatory name for African Americans)
Pointing out that he was suspended over questionable possible drug use has nothing to do with the case, he has no prior history of dealing or using drugs, and he isn't in a gang, he wouldn't have much of a way to bring suspicion to himself besides "Being a black man wearing a hoody".
Hell, in a later 911 call, you can hear the struggle between him and Zimmerman, and hear someone screaming "Help" and begging for his life, the person sounded relatively young, and I doubt a 28 year old man with a gun on him would suddenly sound like a young boy screaming for help.
Witty Name Here: The worst part is people are trying to demonize Trayvon now. Saying things like "Oh he's a druggie!" or "Oh, he's with the black panthers!"
Honestly, I'm disgusted by the amount of people trying to say things like "They found evidence that he had a bag that may have had some marijuana in it." So does that mean people have a right to murder him all of a sudden? No, not at all.
I think the whole thing is a tragedy that should have never happened. The demonization on both sides is just awful. They make Zimmerman out to be some 40+ year old white kkk member out hunting, and they make Martin out to be a gang banger. It is horrible. While I disagree with Zimmermans actions, I still do not condone the misinformation. Zimmerman should have never followed the guy, and Martin should not have attacked him. Either way, it is a terrible loss. A kid cut down in the prime of his life because a guy refused to follow police orders pretty much sums it up for me.
The thing is, we have no evidence that Martin even attacked him. The best we have is some shaky testimony from Zimmerman, and even then the second call to the police, combined with Martin's own texts to his girlfriend really doesn't provide much evidence that Martin was looking for a fight or willing to fight anyone.
Witty Name Here: The worst part is people are trying to demonize Trayvon now. Saying things like "Oh he's a druggie!" or "Oh, he's with the black panthers!"
Honestly, I'm disgusted by the amount of people trying to say things like "They found evidence that he had a bag that may have had some marijuana in it." So does that mean people have a right to murder him all of a sudden? No, not at all.
Well yeah that would be wrong too but pointing out that he wasnt the pure choir boy that the Al Sharpton types tried to make him out to be is not demonizing him, its also not relevant to the case.
You could also turn it around and say that ok Zimmerman probably should have stopped following Martin when the police told him to stop. Still even though he kept following him it doesnt automatically make him a murderer or a racist. We need to look at the facts of the case and not jump to conclusions on our own.
No but what does make him seem like a murderer and a racist is that he followed a young african american man just under the guise of him looking "suspicious" and towards the end of his call to the police, he said something that sounded awfully close to "F*cking Coon" (a derogatory name for African Americans)
Pointing out that he was suspended over questionable possible drug use has nothing to do with the case, he has no prior history of dealing or using drugs, and he isn't in a gang, he wouldn't have much of a way to bring suspicion to himself besides "Being a black man wearing a hoody".
Hell, in a later 911 call, you can hear the struggle between him and Zimmerman, and hear someone screaming "Help" and begging for his life, the person sounded relatively young, and I doubt a 28 year old man with a gun on him would suddenly sound like a young boy screaming for help.
If you re read through this thread, that misinformation has been addressed as well. It appears " coons" was " punks" that Zimmerman is Latino, 28 and witnesses claim it was Zimmerman screaming for help. Yes, men do sound like that when screaming.
Witty Name Here: The worst part is people are trying to demonize Trayvon now. Saying things like "Oh he's a druggie!" or "Oh, he's with the black panthers!"
Honestly, I'm disgusted by the amount of people trying to say things like "They found evidence that he had a bag that may have had some marijuana in it." So does that mean people have a right to murder him all of a sudden? No, not at all.
I think the whole thing is a tragedy that should have never happened. The demonization on both sides is just awful. They make Zimmerman out to be some 40+ year old white kkk member out hunting, and they make Martin out to be a gang banger. It is horrible. While I disagree with Zimmermans actions, I still do not condone the misinformation. Zimmerman should have never followed the guy, and Martin should not have attacked him. Either way, it is a terrible loss. A kid cut down in the prime of his life because a guy refused to follow police orders pretty much sums it up for me.
The thing is, we have no evidence that Martin even attacked him. The best we have is some shaky testimony from Zimmerman, and even then the second call to the police, combined with Martin's own texts to his girlfriend really doesn't provide much evidence that Martin was looking for a fight or willing to fight anyone.
That is misinformation as well. There were witnesses, (I read their statements) that claimed the man in red ( on bottom) which later was identified as Zimmerman was screaming for help while the man in gray ( Martin) was on top of him beating his head into the curb. You have been misinformed. Others have linked articles that concur with the statements that were taken the day of the incident, and that concur with the police report. There are links in this thread somewhere, not rereading it just to find them again.
Seekster: I think everyone needs to chill and stop jumping to conclusions because there is a whole lot we do not know. Ill agree that this should have been investigated more earlier but it IS being looked into by a Grand Jury right now so let them do their job. Also knock it off with the stupid race baiting attempts. Do I even need to explain why trying to inject racism into this tragedy is ridiculous?
Welcome back Seek!
You're right of course the Sanford PD royally screwed the pooch on this. I hope though that it's not impossible to build a case now thanks to not only the Sanford PD's complete mishandling of this but also the media circus around it. I hope they can find enough juror candidates too. This isn't the only forum I'm involved in a Trayvon discussion on but it's also not unique in the majority siding against Zimmerman. Many have made up their minds. In the discussions I've participated in neither side seems very willing to budge.
Lesson learned, Captcha will try and get you banned with no content posts if you try and post from your blackberry. Good to be back though I probably wont be as active do to RL being more busy.
And yes its amazing how quickly everyone just assumed that this was an open and shut case without looking at any of the evidence. Let the investigation proceed and see what they find.
Witty Name Here: The worst part is people are trying to demonize Trayvon now. Saying things like "Oh he's a druggie!" or "Oh, he's with the black panthers!"
Honestly, I'm disgusted by the amount of people trying to say things like "They found evidence that he had a bag that may have had some marijuana in it." So does that mean people have a right to murder him all of a sudden? No, not at all.
Well yeah that would be wrong too but pointing out that he wasnt the pure choir boy that the Al Sharpton types tried to make him out to be is not demonizing him, its also not relevant to the case.
You could also turn it around and say that ok Zimmerman probably should have stopped following Martin when the police told him to stop. Still even though he kept following him it doesnt automatically make him a murderer or a racist. We need to look at the facts of the case and not jump to conclusions on our own.
No but what does make him seem like a murderer and a racist is that he followed a young african american man just under the guise of him looking "suspicious" and towards the end of his call to the police, he said something that sounded awfully close to "F*cking Coon" (a derogatory name for African Americans)
Pointing out that he was suspended over questionable possible drug use has nothing to do with the case, he has no prior history of dealing or using drugs, and he isn't in a gang, he wouldn't have much of a way to bring suspicion to himself besides "Being a black man wearing a hoody".
Hell, in a later 911 call, you can hear the struggle between him and Zimmerman, and hear someone screaming "Help" and begging for his life, the person sounded relatively young, and I doubt a 28 year old man with a gun on him would suddenly sound like a young boy screaming for help.
First of all apparently this isnt the first time that Zimmerman had been a bit overzealous as a neighborhood watchman so its hard to argue that Martin got treated special because of his race.
Second of all its unknown if a racial slur was used in the call from Zimmerman to the dispatch operator or whoever that was. A lot of people have listened to it and its been digitally enhanced and its still hard to hear exactly what was said.
Actually the voice crying for help in the tape is unclear and it could be either of them. Plus there is still the matter of Zimmerman's injuries and how exactly he sustained those if there was no fight.
There is so much we do not know about this case and too many facts that dont seem to add up. Lets wait for the investigation to make its conclusion before we start calling this a murder or a hate crime or whatever.
That is misinformation as well. There were witnesses, (I read their statements) that claimed the man in red ( on bottom) which later was identified as Zimmerman was screaming for help while the man in gray ( Martin) was on top of him beating his head into the curb. You have been misinformed.
I still find that incredibly hard to believe considering Zimmerman had something like 100 pounds on Martin plus was carrying a firearm with him at the time.
Lil devils x: If you re read through this thread, that misinformation has been addressed as well. It appears " coons" was " punks" that Zimmerman is Latino, 28 and witnesses claim it was Zimmerman screaming for help. Yes, men do sound like that when screaming.
The thought of a one hundred pound heavier man, with a gun, being slammed over by a much lighter teen, then being beaten senselessly while screaming for help (all of this DESPITE the fact that he's a known member of the neighborhood watch... Or at least an "unofficial" member) just seems to be full of holes.
That is misinformation as well. There were witnesses, (I read their statements) that claimed the man in red ( on bottom) which later was identified as Zimmerman was screaming for help while the man in gray ( Martin) was on top of him beating his head into the curb. You have been misinformed.
I still find that incredibly hard to believe considering Zimmerman had something like 100 pounds on Martin plus was carrying a firearm with him at the time.
Lil devils x: If you re read through this thread, that misinformation has been addressed as well. It appears " coons" was " punks" that Zimmerman is Latino, 28 and witnesses claim it was Zimmerman screaming for help. Yes, men do sound like that when screaming.
The thought of a one hundred pound heavier man, with a gun, being slammed over by a much lighter teen, then being beaten senselessly while screaming for help (all of this DESPITE the fact that he's a known member of the neighborhood watch... Or at least an "unofficial" member) just seems to be full of holes.
And yet there is a witness who saw that or at least parts of that and then there is the fact that Zimmerman had a broken nose and cuts on his face as well as grass stains on his back. Now maybe Zimmerman shot the kid and broke his own nose and rolled about in the grass. We don't know, the ballistics results should come out soon. If Zimmerman is telling the truth then the fatal wound should have been caused at close range with him pulling out his gun and firing while Martin was on top of him. Also weight doesnt mean a whole lot if Zimmerman's story checks out and he was attacked by surprise. Like I said, we don't know. There is a lot that doesnt add up here but its foolish to try and play detective without looking at all the facts.
That is misinformation as well. There were witnesses, (I read their statements) that claimed the man in red ( on bottom) which later was identified as Zimmerman was screaming for help while the man in gray ( Martin) was on top of him beating his head into the curb. You have been misinformed.
I still find that incredibly hard to believe considering Zimmerman had something like 100 pounds on Martin plus was carrying a firearm with him at the time.
Lil devils x: If you re read through this thread, that misinformation has been addressed as well. It appears " coons" was " punks" that Zimmerman is Latino, 28 and witnesses claim it was Zimmerman screaming for help. Yes, men do sound like that when screaming.
The thought of a one hundred pound heavier man, with a gun, being slammed over by a much lighter teen, then being beaten senselessly while screaming for help (all of this DESPITE the fact that he's a known member of the neighborhood watch... Or at least an "unofficial" member) just seems to be full of holes.
Guess you have not heard the saying " bigger they are the harder they fall"? It is not hard to get a fat man on his back, and when he goes down, he goes down hard. When an overweight man is on the ground he is pretty much helpless. They have to roll to one side to get up and even then it is a struggle. Overweight usually means out of shape.
No signs of a struggle are visible on Zimmerman's person. No blood, no broken nose, no sign of medical attention, no grass or wetness on Zimmerman's back.
This raises all sorts of questions, not only about Martin and Zimmerman's actions that night but about the obvious discrepancies in the initial police report. Before I was willing to accept this as merely police negligence, but it seems now that documents relating to the case may have been deliberately falsified.
And yet there is a witness who saw that or at least parts of that and then there is the fact that Zimmerman had a broken nose and cuts on his face as well as grass stains on his back. Now maybe Zimmerman shot the kid and broke his own nose and rolled about in the grass. We don't know, the ballistics results should come out soon. If Zimmerman is telling the truth then the fatal wound should have been caused at close range with him pulling out his gun and firing while Martin was on top of him. Also weight doesnt mean a whole lot if Zimmerman's story checks out and he was attacked by surprise. Like I said, we don't know. There is a lot that doesnt add up here but its foolish to try and play detective without looking at all the facts.
Was Zimmerman's nose broken, or just bloody? AFAIK he did not receive any medical treatment, which would be rather unbelievable if the nose was actually broken.
No signs of a struggle are visible on Zimmerman's person. No blood, no broken nose, no sign of medical attention, no grass or wetness on Zimmerman's back.
This raises all sorts of questions, not only about Martin and Zimmerman's actions that night but about the obvious discrepancies in the initial police report. Before I was willing to accept this as merely police negligence, but it seems now that documents relating to the case may have been deliberately falsified.
Hmm well yes we don't see any signs of a stuggle or at least I didn't. Once again that does raise more questions than it answers. However its possible that Zimmerman was cleaned up before being put in the police car. Just raising the possibility, I don't know any more than you do.
I wouldnt jump to any conclusions here.
Also a recent report suggested that the police wanted an arrest warrant but the DA's office said there wasnt enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with a crime so that would contradict any implication that the police were trying to cover for Zimmerman.
Like I said, we have a few pieces of evidence available in the public sphere now and a lot of missing pieces and a lot of pieces that dont make sense to us now. Let the investigators do their job and then they will present us with the findings later and we can talk about that.
No signs of a struggle are visible on Zimmerman's person. No blood, no broken nose, no sign of medical attention, no grass or wetness on Zimmerman's back.
This raises all sorts of questions, not only about Martin and Zimmerman's actions that night but about the obvious discrepancies in the initial police report. Before I was willing to accept this as merely police negligence, but it seems now that documents relating to the case may have been deliberately falsified.
I had brought up the possibility of falsified information earlier in this thread. When I had heard what had been stated in the interview by the witness that claimed the police blew them off, what they had stated did not coincide with the initial report. It will be interesting what comes of this.
The video was not of that high quality, but I agree that I do not see any head injuries and do not see a broken nose from that footage.
Hmm well yes we don't see any signs of a stuggle or at least I didn't. Once again that does raise more questions than it answers. However its possible that Zimmerman was cleaned up before being put in the police car. Just raising the possibility, I don't know any more than you do.
I wouldnt jump to any conclusions here.
Also a recent report suggested that the police wanted an arrest warrant but the DA's office said there wasnt enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with a crime so that would contradict any implication that the police were trying to cover for Zimmerman.
Like I said, we have a few pieces of evidence available in the public sphere now and a lot of missing pieces and a lot of pieces that dont make sense to us now. Let the investigators do their job and then they will present us with the findings later and we can talk about that.
Right. Sorry, i was sort of stunned to see this so imay have been a little hasty. One of the officers can be seen wiping his hand on his pants after touching Zimmermann's back, so it may have been wet after all. Of course that could also just be due to falling rain. Also i should apologize for placing blame squarely on members of the police department when it seems that the DA's office also played a central role.
Hopefully this will at least put to rest some of the wild conjecture surrounding this case.
Hmm well yes we don't see any signs of a stuggle or at least I didn't. Once again that does raise more questions than it answers. However its possible that Zimmerman was cleaned up before being put in the police car. Just raising the possibility, I don't know any more than you do.
I wouldnt jump to any conclusions here.
Also a recent report suggested that the police wanted an arrest warrant but the DA's office said there wasnt enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with a crime so that would contradict any implication that the police were trying to cover for Zimmerman.
Like I said, we have a few pieces of evidence available in the public sphere now and a lot of missing pieces and a lot of pieces that dont make sense to us now. Let the investigators do their job and then they will present us with the findings later and we can talk about that.
Right. Sorry, i was sort of stunned to see this so imay have been a little hasty. One of the officers can be seen wiping his hand on his pants after touching Zimmermann's back, so it may have been wet after all. Of course that could also just be due to falling rain. Also i should apologize for placing blame squarely on members of the police department when it seems that the DA's office also played a central role.
Hopefully this will at least put to rest some of the wild conjecture surrounding this case.
Well again there is already a Grand Jury looking into this case so there is no need for us to jump to conclusions every time a new scrap of evidence that comes out. Its far far too early to be pointing fingers...unless of course you are Phoenix Wright. Speaking of which did anyone see the live action movie for that that came out earlier this year (not to change the topic...if you did just send me a PM).
Hmm well yes we don't see any signs of a stuggle or at least I didn't. Once again that does raise more questions than it answers. However its possible that Zimmerman was cleaned up before being put in the police car. Just raising the possibility, I don't know any more than you do.
I wouldnt jump to any conclusions here.
Also a recent report suggested that the police wanted an arrest warrant but the DA's office said there wasnt enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with a crime so that would contradict any implication that the police were trying to cover for Zimmerman.
Like I said, we have a few pieces of evidence available in the public sphere now and a lot of missing pieces and a lot of pieces that dont make sense to us now. Let the investigators do their job and then they will present us with the findings later and we can talk about that.
Right. Sorry, i was sort of stunned to see this so imay have been a little hasty. One of the officers can be seen wiping his hand on his pants after touching Zimmermann's back, so it may have been wet after all. Of course that could also just be due to falling rain. Also i should apologize for placing blame squarely on members of the police department when it seems that the DA's office also played a central role.
Hopefully this will at least put to rest some of the wild conjecture surrounding this case.
Speaking of wild conjecture
It has come up that Zimmerman's father is a retired judge and his mother is a court clerk. He had previous run ins with the law 1 in particular that could have been serious that was chopped down. The police went all the way to the DA before letting him go implying that there was something serious about this the night of. If only they had knew how much evidence was going to come available.
Volf: No, just an organization that has a certain "history".
Doesn't matter.
Captcha: "know your rights." fitting.
It does matter and we have been over this already. They are a hateful, racist organization that was intimidating people.
The actions of the New Black Panthers have no relevance whatsoever to the thread or the case. Please drop it or present evidence that Zimmerman, one or more cops, Martin, one or more witnesses, or any lawyer or officer of the court is an active member of that group.
On Topic In addition to the video released today, the funeral director who prepared Martin's body claims he could see no sign of a fight or struggle on Martin's body, other than the gunshot wound.
The funeral director who prepared Trayvon Martin's body for burial told HLN's Nancy Grace Wednesday that he did not see any cuts or bruises on the teen's hands that would have been indicative of a struggle with George Zimmerman, the man who shot and killed the Florida teen.
He also appeared on Lawrence O'Donnell's show on MSNBC, which is where I heard his claim. The above excerpt comes from this article.
So with no obvious outward signs of a struggle on either man, the severity of the confrontation would appear to be in serious doubt. Of course, Kurtz isn't exactly a medical examiner, but he's seen homicide victims before.
There's also a noticeable lack of blood on Zimmerman. If Martin was on top of him when Zimmerman shot him, where's the blood? There should be blood. It should be on the gun, on Zimmerman's arms, but at the very least on his shirt and on his sweater. Sure his face could've been cleaned up at any point before he appeared on the video but his clothes would be another matter.
It has to do with Tyler Perry's refusal to admit that they were intimidating in front of a voting center. Not to be a dick, but if you don't like our conversation, then ignore it.
Also of note from the video is the absence of blood anywhere on Zimmerman. You would think that it have had some blood considering that he supposedly shot Martin while being pummeled on the ground. Gravity should do as much am i right?
I wish that Rev. Fucknob and the Black Pussies would just shut up about this. Mob justice goes NOWHERE. Let the cops do their job and find evidence, don't go around making wild presumptions when all the facts still aren't clear.
Witty Name Here: The thought of a one hundred pound heavier man, with a gun, being slammed over by a much lighter teen, then being beaten senselessly while screaming for help (all of this DESPITE the fact that he's a known member of the neighborhood watch... Or at least an "unofficial" member) just seems to be full of holes.
That isn't [close to] the first time it's been been brought up, but how does him being the only one with a gun somehow invalidate the self-defense or screaming for help claims? Presumably, the only way the gun would make a difference is if he used it, but... isn't the fact that he eventually used it what people are complaining about in the first place?
People are basically saying that he had a gun, so he shouldn't have screamed for help, but the only way a gun would make a difference is if he used it rather than screaming for help. But if that happened, wouldn't people complain anyway?
"He didn't have to fire his gun, the reason being that HE HAD A GUN!" ...What?
Keep in mind, the Hispanic guy could be a crazy nutjob who deserves the death penalty for all I care. I'm just pointing out that that particular argument makes no sense at all.
"Prior to the spread of "Stand Your Ground" and "Castle Doctrine" laws, citizens who wanted to defend themselves from a criminal had to retreat as far as possible and then announce to the criminal that they were going to shoot. But obvious problems arise: Forcing a victim to take time to retreat can put their life in jeopardy, and a prosecutor might argue that a victim didn't retreat sufficiently. There have been many cases where victims have been chased and knocked down a couple of times before firing in self-defense, and yet prosecutors claimed that the victim still could have done more to retreat before firing their gun."
In a high crime neighborhood, this law makes sense.
If the facts really are that Zimmerman tried to get back to his car and was attacked by Martin and was on his back being pummled, it makes sense to me that Zimmerman isn't in legal trouble.
The nose has me concerned though. I've only seen one person in my life get his nose broken. It was a bloody mess. Dunno if that's always the case. Even if the shooting was justified, if Zimmerman intentionally broke his nose to support his story, it would be obstruction of justice.
If the facts really are that Zimmerman tried to get back to his car and was attacked by Martin and was on his back being pummled, it makes sense to me that Zimmerman isn't in legal trouble.
Even assuming that Zimmerman's version of events (and the above is Zimmerman's version) he should've been arrested and held, his gun and clothes confiscated as evidence, a proper investigation done and charges brought if warranted.
None of this was done and this is a travesty. SPD fucked up royally.
Gorfias: The nose has me concerned though. I've only seen one person in my life get his nose broken. It was a bloody mess. Dunno if that's always the case. Even if the shooting was justified, if Zimmerman intentionally broke his nose to support his story, it would be obstruction of justice.
Depends on how bad the break is. If the punch is straight on, it's likely to be much more bloody than if the punch came in at an angle.
The nose has me concerned though. I've only seen one person in my life get his nose broken. It was a bloody mess. Dunno if that's always the case. Even if the shooting was justified, if Zimmerman intentionally broke his nose to support his story, it would be obstruction of justice.
I broke mine a few years ago when a tyre I was blowing up burst. There wasn't much bleeding, although it hurt like a bitch and was quite bent to one side for a while. It could be broken, but he doesn't look to be in pain from it. Wild conjecture though.
If the facts really are that Zimmerman tried to get back to his car and was attacked by Martin and was on his back being pummled, it makes sense to me that Zimmerman isn't in legal trouble.
Even assuming that Zimmerman's version of events (and the above is Zimmerman's version) he should've been arrested and held, his gun and clothes confiscated as evidence, a proper investigation done and charges brought if warranted.
None of this was done and this is a travesty. SPD fucked up royally.
Not sure I agree. If the police are telling the truth, that they saw Zimmerman's face bloodied, they could have seen him as a victim protecting himself. They don't usually arrest crime victims. They did apparantly take him in for questioning (as evidenced by the links above). I've read that a witness claims he saw Zimmerman on the bottom calling for help. Not sure how realiable that information is though. I'll agree at a minimum: had they examined the clothes and found Zimmerman's blood, they would have corroborated his story in part. They actually may have done him a disservice.
Gorfias: The nose has me concerned though. I've only seen one person in my life get his nose broken. It was a bloody mess. Dunno if that's always the case. Even if the shooting was justified, if Zimmerman intentionally broke his nose to support his story, it would be obstruction of justice.
Depends on how bad the break is. If the punch is straight on, it's likely to be much more bloody than if the punch came in at an angle.
Archroy: I broke mine a few years ago when a tyre I was blowing up burst. There wasn't much bleeding, although it hurt like a bitch and was quite bent to one side for a while. It could be broken, but he doesn't look to be in pain from it. Wild conjecture though.
That makes sense. The guy I saw was playing soccer. He was directly behind another guy who was leaping upward and the back of his head hit the kid square on and it looked like someone had hit him with a blood filled water balloon. On the other hand, I don't doubt I've seen noses broken in boxing matches and not noted that kind of bloodying.
Funny... nobody gives a shit when people are shot in general. NOW it matters oh so much? Where is the outrage against black on black crime? Against all violent crime? This shit doesn't just happen all the time. Other countries don't have problems with violent crime on anywhere near the scale we do.
I think Zimmerman did it on purpose and is lying. Maybe witnesses will change the story, we'll see.
Funny how for the first few days all you heard was that Martin had been suspended from school (for nothing violent) and had weed. Uh oh. Master criminal. Nobody bothered mentioning that Zimmerman has felonies on his record. My god... you mean the media is biased?!? He was probably reported as white because his name is fucking Zimmerman. Doesn't exactly sound hispanic.
Was it racially motivated? I think so.
The really big problem now is that if Zimmerman isn't punished black people will justifiably (seemingly, at this point) be pissed. Riots will ensue. Nobody wins. God damnit America you suck again.
*edit* Stand your ground laws aren't even inherently bad. Just yesterday an elderly black dude shot a pistol wielding intruder trying to rob his house here in Detroit. Can't argue with that shit, I'd have blasted him too.
Enslave_All_Elves: Funny how for the first few days all you heard was that Martin had been suspended from school (for nothing violent) and had weed. Uh oh. Master criminal. Nobody bothered mentioning that Zimmerman has felonies on his record. My god... you mean the media is biased?!? He was probably reported as white because his name is fucking Zimmerman. Doesn't exactly sound hispanic.
Was it racially motivated? I think so.
Zimmerman does NOT have felonies on his record. He was arrested twice. Once by an overzealous officer for assault on a police officer which was dropped. That is something that NEVER happens unless the charge was too bogus to push through. The second time was during a domestic disturbance, which is extremely commonplace even if charges are never filed. Which they weren't.
Gorfias: I'll agree at a minimum: had they examined the clothes and found Zimmerman's blood, they would have corroborated his story in part. They actually may have done him a disservice.
They've done everyone a disservice by not investigating this properly. Even if the investigation eventually led to Zimmerman's conviction, he'd still be better off as he'd be spared what's going on right now. Hell he'd be better off in jail right now.
Also slight correction to my earlier post, apparently Zimmerman's gun was taken and is still in the hands of the cops:
Orlando Sentinel: Sanford Officer Tim Smith handcuffed Zimmerman, and then pulled from a holster in Zimmerman's waistband the black Kel Tec 9 mm PF9, a semiautomatic. The gun is now in the possession of authorities, officially part of the evidence in the case.
Guess you have not heard the saying " bigger they are the harder they fall"? It is not hard to get a fat man on his back, and when he goes down, he goes down hard. When an overweight man is on the ground he is pretty much helpless. They have to roll to one side to get up and even then it is a struggle. Overweight usually means out of shape.
They released the video of his arrest... He doesn't even look like he has a scratch on him.
Yes, the video is a bit blurry and there could be a scratch on him for all I know, yet that is nothing. Nothing like he claimed in the report. His nose wasn't broken as far as I can tell, yet that isn't the most important bit.
He doesn't look like a man who was beaten senselessly, his claim of "just walking by when Trayvon attacked him, through him to the ground, and beat him to a bloody pulp" is complete and utter BS, that wasn't a man who just had a near death encounter. That wasn't a man who was letting himself be beaten because he was hesitant to use his gun, there's not a scratch on him, or any visible patch of grass. He doesn't even look REMOTELY weak or wounded as he steps out from the car.
The problem with his case is that he claims to be near completely innocent, that he was just "walking home" when Trayvon came out and tackled him, he then claims that his screaming for help could be heard over the second police call. The problem is, people who carry guns usually aren't helpless. He's claiming that he had a gun, and yet he let himself get beaten within an inch of his life, and his first thought was "I should scream for help" instead of "I have a gun on me, I'll shoot this guy or threaten to do it if he doesn't back off". The problem with his testimony isn't that he shot Trayvon, it's that he's claiming to be completely helpless and weak while there's evidence showing he followed Trayvon and seemed to think of himself as some Neighborhood Watchman/Vigilante.
Guess you have not heard the saying " bigger they are the harder they fall"? It is not hard to get a fat man on his back, and when he goes down, he goes down hard. When an overweight man is on the ground he is pretty much helpless. They have to roll to one side to get up and even then it is a struggle. Overweight usually means out of shape.
They released the video of his arrest... He doesn't even look like he has a scratch on him.
Yes, the video is a bit blurry and there could be a scratch on him for all I know, yet that is nothing. Nothing like he claimed in the report. His nose wasn't broken as far as I can tell, yet that isn't the most important bit.
He doesn't look like a man who was beaten senselessly, his claim of "just walking by when Trayvon attacked him, through him to the ground, and beat him to a bloody pulp" is complete and utter BS, that wasn't a man who just had a near death encounter. That wasn't a man who was letting himself be beaten because he was hesitant to use his gun, there's not a scratch on him, or any visible patch of grass. He doesn't even look REMOTELY weak or wounded as he steps out from the car.
The problem with his case is that he claims to be near completely innocent, that he was just "walking home" when Trayvon came out and tackled him, he then claims that his screaming for help could be heard over the second police call. The problem is, people who carry guns usually aren't helpless. He's claiming that he had a gun, and yet he let himself get beaten within an inch of his life, and his first thought was "I should scream for help" instead of "I have a gun on me, I'll shoot this guy or threaten to do it if he doesn't back off". The problem with his testimony isn't that he shot Trayvon, it's that he's claiming to be completely helpless and weak while there's evidence showing he followed Trayvon and seemed to think of himself as some Neighborhood Watchman/Vigilante.
I already addressed the video in post#364 on this thread.
Welcome back Seek!
You're right of course the Sanford PD royally screwed the pooch on this. I hope though that it's not impossible to build a case now thanks to not only the Sanford PD's complete mishandling of this but also the media circus around it. I hope they can find enough juror candidates too. This isn't the only forum I'm involved in a Trayvon discussion on but it's also not unique in the majority siding against Zimmerman. Many have made up their minds. In the discussions I've participated in neither side seems very willing to budge.