evilneko: Briefing in progress right now. Special Prosecutor says Zim will be charged with 2nd degree Murder.
Sign of confidence? If they weren't confident in their case they probably would've gone for Manslaughter.
More likely they're pushing for a plea bargain down to manslaughter. Much less likely they know they don't have a case, they're throwing murder 2 at him so when the trial's over they can say it's the jury's fault when there's no conviction.
Florida Murder 2
(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
There's also the felony accomplice definition but that obviously doesn't apply.
I can see manslaughter bearing up if it's shown that Zimmerman lied about who started the confrontation, but combined with the witness who saw Zimmerman on the bottom I can't see any way for murder 2 to apply.
What gets me is that one prosecutor looked at this case and said that there wasnt enough to even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Then this special prosecutor looks at it and decides there is enough to charge Zimmerman with Second Degree Murder. Something doesnt add up. Either the first prosecutor screwed up royally or the special prosecutor is overreaching to placate the masses and knows that the state may get killed (figuratively) in court. I don't know I am looking forward to seeing what evidence they haven't shown us yet. Based on how they are acting it must be a lot.
feeqmatic: Im walking from a store in an unfamiliar neighborhood. I see a car slow down and following me. I see the driver staring at me on the phone. In fear I begin to run. I see the driver of the car get out and begin to chase after me but i get away. (This is all easily backed by the first police phone call). 2 or so minutes later while on the phone with my girlfriend i see the same person still following me.
Except that by Zimmermans statement he was blindsided.
This person is older and larger than me and is coming at me aggressively.
Older yes, larger no.
He attempts to put his hands on me and I throw a punch at him. We begin to fight and i am getting the better of it when he pulls a gun and shoots me dead. I have committed no crime and have no drugs in my system. Is my death justifiable homicide when i had already made attempts to flee and avoid the altercation, or can someone who clearly pursued a confrontation claim self defense when said confrontation does not go the way they planned?
1. Why didn't you call the police? 2. Why didn't you try and run again? 3. What reasonable justification did you have for initiating the attack?
I tell my students that you cannot get hot in a self defense situation. If you initiate the attack YOU are legally required to retreat and because there are times where retreat is impossible you must NEVER initiate an attack UNLESS you are in fear for your life and you have no ability to retreat. Martin had the ability to not only call the police but he proved that he had the ability to run away. Whats more there were people around him that he could have asked for help. Martin had many avenues in which he could have ended it. Zimmerman is an idiot and he royally screwed up BUT Martin had the ability to end it very effectively.
WoW Killer: He has a license for a concealed weapon. I'd have thought that came with some requirements (again, no expert).
It depends on the state.
And yes, should have to give a warning. You're life isn't in danger by being punched. You can't shoot to kill just because you're losing in a fight. That sets all sorts of precedents.
If Zimmerman is telling the truth his head was being bashed into the concrete. In that scenario your mental and physical abilities are compromised. In addition even drawing your firearm at close ranges is a BIG no no. As for providing a warning at close ranges that is a bad idea. That alerts the person and allows the taking of your firearm much easier.
WoW Killer: Also, lethal at 21 feet? Is Martin some sort of ninja now? Has Martin been training like Jet Li in that film where he has to kill the king from so many paces? That's ridiculous.
It is called the Tueller Drill. It is an anachronism but it is still used to train LEOs in how to deal with people carrying knives. In fact it has lead to a few needless deaths because the LEOs are trained that any person with a knife within 21 feet of your person can attack you faster than you can draw (assuming you are not in position and he/she has the initiative, etc).
and
And of course
evilneko: Sign of confidence? If they weren't confident in their case they probably would've gone for Manslaughter.
More likely try to scare him into taking a deal (given his purported mental state that is likely). Unless they have some evidence under the table I do not think they have enough for murder.
Everyone in this thread, no, everyone's who's heard of this case really:
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0ndGV4dC1hbGlnbjogY2VudGVyOyc+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9pLmltZ3VyLmNvbS9sUDNsSy5qcGciIGFsdD0iaW1hZ2UiLz48L2Rpdj48L3A+
I can't be the only one who has his lawn chair out and a large bowl of popcorn waiting for a riot. The majority of the Pro-Trayvon side wants the death penalty for this whole shit storm, and odds are, that's not going to happen.
Okay, I now know why she did what she did. Quite simply, she's either insane or REALLY likes forcing people into plea deals.
Angela Corey Wiki: Cristian Fernandez case
In 2011 Corey's office oversaw a case in which 12-year-old Cristian Fernandez was accused of killing his two-year-old brother. Corey sought and received a grand jury indictment Fernandez on charges of homicide and aggravated child abuse, and decided to try him as an adult.[13] This move, which made Fernandez the youngest person ever to face a murder charge in Jacksonville's history, drew criticism and protests to send the case to juvenile court instead,[14] but Corey held that the juvenile system was inadequate to handle a crime of this magnitude.[15] However, Corey stated she did not intend for Fernandez to stand trial or serve a life sentence, but would rather accept a plea deal.[16] As of February 1, 2012 the defense and prosecution had not agreed to a plea deal, but were still in discussion. A trial was scheduled for February 27, 2012, but was postponed.[17]
Smagmuck_: Everyone in this thread, no, everyone's who's heard of this case really:
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0ndGV4dC1hbGlnbjogY2VudGVyOyc+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9pLmltZ3VyLmNvbS9sUDNsSy5qcGciIGFsdD0iaW1hZ2UiLz48L2Rpdj48L3A+
I can't be the only one who has his lawn chair out and a large bowl of popcorn waiting for a riot. The majority of the Pro-Trayvon side wants the death penalty for this whole shit storm, and odds are, that's not going to happen.
inb4 riots.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have ANY evidence to suggest that "the majority of the pro-Trayvon side" (whatever the fuck THAT means) is demanding that George Zimmerman be executed over this? Any at all, outside of your supposition of what you think the "pro-Trayvon side" (and it's quite obvious who you think that is, and it rhymes with diggers)?
It sounds like you're rooting for a riot, because it would tell you that you were right about "those people" all along.
What gets me is that one prosecutor looked at this case and said that there wasnt enough to even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Then this special prosecutor looks at it and decides there is enough to charge Zimmerman with Second Degree Murder. Something doesnt add up. Either the first prosecutor screwed up royally or the special prosecutor is overreaching to placate the masses and knows that the state may get killed (figuratively) in court. I don't know I am looking forward to seeing what evidence they haven't shown us yet. Based on how they are acting it must be a lot.
Or, third option; the orginal prosecutor screwed up royally and the special prosecutor is overreaching. It is possible.
Judging from how the police reacted to begin with and the way they've dragged their feet, I'd say that they do actually have enough evidence to win at a trial against him. Wether or not they can prove murder 2 is another story.
Smagmuck_: Everyone in this thread, no, everyone's who's heard of this case really:
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0ndGV4dC1hbGlnbjogY2VudGVyOyc+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9pLmltZ3VyLmNvbS9sUDNsSy5qcGciIGFsdD0iaW1hZ2UiLz48L2Rpdj48L3A+
I can't be the only one who has his lawn chair out and a large bowl of popcorn waiting for a riot. The majority of the Pro-Trayvon side wants the death penalty for this whole shit storm, and odds are, that's not going to happen.
inb4 riots.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have ANY evidence to suggest that "the majority of the pro-Trayvon side" (whatever the fuck THAT means) is demanding that George Zimmerman be executed over this? Any at all, outside of your supposition of what you think the "pro-Trayvon side" (and it's quite obvious who you think that is, and it rhymes with diggers)?
It sounds like you're rooting for a riot, because it would tell you that you were right about "those people" all along.
Now it is you that is making baseless accusations. Smagmuck never even suggest that the pro-trayvon side(because you seem to be confused by the term, it means the side that believes that Mr.Martin is completely innocent and that Mr. Zimmerman is guilty) were all niggers(your not afraid to constantly use the word "fuck" to show when your aggravated, but some how typing the word "nigger" is going too far?). Do you have any evidence that Smagmuck ever implied the use of the word nigger?
Smagmuck_: Everyone in this thread, no, everyone's who's heard of this case really:
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0ndGV4dC1hbGlnbjogY2VudGVyOyc+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9pLmltZ3VyLmNvbS9sUDNsSy5qcGciIGFsdD0iaW1hZ2UiLz48L2Rpdj48L3A+
I can't be the only one who has his lawn chair out and a large bowl of popcorn waiting for a riot. The majority of the Pro-Trayvon side wants the death penalty for this whole shit storm, and odds are, that's not going to happen.
inb4 riots.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have ANY evidence to suggest that "the majority of the pro-Trayvon side" (whatever the fuck THAT means) is demanding that George Zimmerman be executed over this? Any at all, outside of your supposition of what you think the "pro-Trayvon side" (and it's quite obvious who you think that is, and it rhymes with diggers)?
It sounds like you're rooting for a riot, because it would tell you that you were right about "those people" all along.
Now it is you that is making baseless accusations. Smagmuck never even suggest that the pro-trayvon side(because you seem to be confused by the term, it means the side that believes that Mr.Martin is completely innocent and that Mr. Zimmerman is guilty) were all niggers(your not afraid to constantly use the word "fuck" to show when your aggravated, but some how typing the word "nigger" is going too far?). Do you have any evidence that Smagmuck ever implied the use of the word nigger?
It's called reading between the lines, guy. It's patently obvious what he means. And if you don't like it, I really couldn't give two shiny shits.
It's called reading between the lines, guy. It's patently obvious what he means. And if you don't like it, I really couldn't give two shiny shits.
Its called a baseless claim. If you have any evidence to show that Smagmuck thought that those who think Mr. Zimmerman is guilty are "niggers", then provide it. Otherwise your making it up.
I hope Zimmerman does not take plea to lower the charges to manslaughter AND i hope he walks. But when the president of the united states comments on your case, how can you possibly get a fair trial?
Tyler Perry: What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have ANY evidence to suggest that "the majority of the pro-Trayvon side" (whatever the fuck THAT means) is demanding that George Zimmerman be executed over this?
Look at the Justice for Trayvon wall, and any of the comments, there are hundreds of wishes for his death.
Any at all, outside of your supposition of what you think the "pro-Trayvon side" (and it's quite obvious who you think that is, and it rhymes with diggers)?
Implying again...
It sounds like you're rooting for a riot, because it would tell you that you were right about "those people" all along.
Well, at least I'm watching instead of shooting up cop cars...
Tyler Perry: What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have ANY evidence to suggest that "the majority of the pro-Trayvon side" (whatever the fuck THAT means) is demanding that George Zimmerman be executed over this?
Look at the Justice for Trayvon wall, and any of the comments, there are hundreds of wishes for his death. [quote]Any at all, outside of your supposition of what you think the "pro-Trayvon side" (and it's quite obvious who you think that is, and it rhymes with diggers)?
So the "Justice for Trayvon" people are the "majority"? Good to know.
xDarc: I hope Zimmerman does not take plea to lower the charges to manslaughter AND i hope he walks. But when the president of the united states comments on your case, how can you possibly get a fair trial?
Number of times the President mentioned George Zimmerman: zero.
He never once implied Zimmerman's guilt in any way, shape or form. Next.
xDarc: I hope Zimmerman does not take plea to lower the charges to manslaughter AND i hope he walks. But when the president of the united states comments on your case, how can you possibly get a fair trial?
Number of times the President mentioned George Zimmerman: zero.
He never once implied Zimmerman's guilt in any way, shape or form. Next.
No, he just compared Trayvon to his own family, something that he should never had done in the first place
xDarc: I hope Zimmerman does not take plea to lower the charges to manslaughter AND i hope he walks. But when the president of the united states comments on your case, how can you possibly get a fair trial?
Number of times the President mentioned George Zimmerman: zero.
He never once implied Zimmerman's guilt in any way, shape or form. Next.
No, he just compared Trayvon to his own family, something that he should never had done in the first place
Yes, god forbid the President be human and personalize a tragedy.
Again, he did absolutely nothing that inferred anything about Zimmerman's guilt or innocence, period, end of story.
Tyler Perry: So the "Justice for Trayvon" people are the "majority"? Good to know.
Implying the majority of 211,000 people (Based on the page likes) wishing ill on another human being isn't a bad thing.
I don't know what this is supposed to mean. YOU claimed that "the majority of pro-Trayvon" people want George Zimmerman executed, and your evidence for such an asinine claim is a fucking FACEBOOK page that 211,000 people "like." Not only are you claiming, by extension, that the majority everyone who "liked" the page agreed with the morons who posted on there screaming for Zim's head on a pike, but that the majority of everyone who thinks that George Zimmerman is or might be criminally culpable for Trayvon Martin's death favors execution.
feeqmatic: Im walking from a store in an unfamiliar neighborhood. I see a car slow down and following me. I see the driver staring at me on the phone. In fear I begin to run. I see the driver of the car get out and begin to chase after me but i get away. (This is all easily backed by the first police phone call). 2 or so minutes later while on the phone with my girlfriend i see the same person still following me.
Except that by Zimmermans statement he was blindsided.
This person is older and larger than me and is coming at me aggressively.
Older yes, larger no.
He attempts to put his hands on me and I throw a punch at him. We begin to fight and i am getting the better of it when he pulls a gun and shoots me dead. I have committed no crime and have no drugs in my system. Is my death justifiable homicide when i had already made attempts to flee and avoid the altercation, or can someone who clearly pursued a confrontation claim self defense when said confrontation does not go the way they planned?
1. Why didn't you call the police? 2. Why didn't you try and run again? 3. What reasonable justification did you have for initiating the attack?
I tell my students that you cannot get hot in a self defense situation. If you initiate the attack YOU are legally required to retreat and because there are times where retreat is impossible you must NEVER initiate an attack UNLESS you are in fear for your life and you have no ability to retreat. Martin had the ability to not only call the police but he proved that he had the ability to run away. Whats more there were people around him that he could have asked for help. Martin had many avenues in which he could have ended it. Zimmerman is an idiot and he royally screwed up BUT Martin had the ability to end it very effectively.
1- Zimmerman's statement is not factual it is supposition and when measured against the facts it makes little sense. I have yet to see any of you "supporters" of Zimmerman admit that his statement and the facts simply dont meld well. Furthermore you keep throwing his statement out there as if its factual, it is pathetically intellectually dishonest and makes me wonder why i bother responding. You keep responding to BlahBlah's trolling but refuse to address arguments that dont work in your favor.
2- Zimmerman was 5-11 250 pounds, Martin was 6-3 150 pounds. You want to rethink your logic on who is "larger" It is clear from the video that Zimmerman was of a solid build, martin measures up as a string bean skinny kid. Again you are conveniently leaving out facts that dont support your points, it is getting sad.
3- Your questions dont acknowledge the fact that this is just my version of the story. For all we know Trayvon was cornered, He could have tried to flee again but was stopped (possibly initiating the altercation)and he was already on the phone so he couldnt call the police. Or maybe he did somehow sneak up on Zimmerman and drag him 50 yards away to beat him to death. Either way, you are right that it is possible that Martin could have done a few more things to end the situation but the HUGE difference is that Martin did not kill anyone. He does not have to prove self defense, Zimmerman does because he made the decision to use deadly force on an unarmed teenage kid. We already know that Zimmerman failed to make the proper decision once by following him, and we know that his story does not add up to facts that are available. I will concede that we dont know all of the facts, but the ones we do know do not point into Zimmermans favor, and clearly there must be fire from the smoke for the prosecutor to go all the way to Murder 2.
All I want is for you and others to stop trolling with BlahBlah, stop throwing out suppositions and honestly admit and analyze the facts that we know.
ravenshrike: I can see manslaughter bearing up if it's shown that Zimmerman lied about who started the confrontation, but combined with the witness who saw Zimmerman on the bottom I can't see any way for murder 2 to apply.
Some people keep on about that supposed witness, but if you read it back, all I can find is the murderer's father claiming there was a witness, or in some sites him claiming it himself.
Most media however are adament that there are no witnesses to the murderer, so either the NRA propaganda department got busted again, or that witness is selectively blind, and a liar.
Seekster: What gets me is that one prosecutor looked at this case and said that there wasnt enough to even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Then this special prosecutor looks at it and decides there is enough to charge Zimmerman with Second Degree Murder. Something doesnt add up. Either the first prosecutor screwed up royally or the special prosecutor is overreaching to placate the masses and knows that the state may get killed (figuratively) in court. I don't know I am looking forward to seeing what evidence they haven't shown us yet. Based on how they are acting it must be a lot.
Uhm, it's possible on the current evidence. Zimmerman was the only one there, is placed on the scene of the murder and with the intent of murder by a 911 call, he confessed to the murder, and they'll also have ballistics to back up his weapon was the murder weapon.
The prosecutor who said that can't even be manslaughter must've somehow missed all of that. Zimmerman hasn't been able to show anything to back up his defense untill now, and Martin's telephone records and residence there debunk any claims of 'suspicious behaviour', so it'll be a very short trial.
Heck, in most countries it would be a premeditated murder, because that's kind of what it is if you pick up a weapon to kill people, and chase them for 15 minutes before murdering them. Murder 2 is already a "Only in the US thing".
Volf: No, he just compared Trayvon to his own family, something that he should never had done in the first place
Why not? Anyone can fall victim to crazy gunslingers like Zimmerman. You, me, Obama, Martin. Walking through his neighbourhood is a capital offense, punishable by summary execution. Men like Zimmerman are a true menace on society. It's quite alright that Obama makes a statement which remotely conjures up that view, without getting into questions of guilt. People need to realise they or their children may well be the next victims of the gun lobby and the crazed 'kill them before they kill us' mentality they promote.
I just hope I'm faster if I ever meet a loonie like Zimmerman and that my training doesn't fail me. Oh, and I'm glad to not live in the US so the odds of meeting an armed crazed vigilante are astronomically much smaller.
Blablahb: Uhm, it's possible on the current evidence. Zimmerman was the only one there, is placed on the scene of the murder and with the intent of murder by a 911 call, he confessed to the murder, and they'll also have ballistics to back up his weapon was the murder weapon.
You're still wrong about this, and it baffles me that you continue to harp on this when there is zero evidence to support it outside of your apparent mind-reading abilities.
I figured manslaughter would be the charge -- if I were guessing, I think they went murder-2 to attempt to intimidate Zim into pleading into a man-1 or man-2 charge.
Volf: He just made an unnecessary comment that was uncalled for.
You're not any less wrong about this than when you were griping about it two weeks ago.
I was right then, and I'm right now.
No! No you're fucking not! You have not described in any way how Obama implied anything about Zimmerman's guilt or innocence, even though you claimed he did until I eviscerated that argument, and now you're just saying "he shouldn't have done it" even though presidents throughout history have commented on prevailing news stories. And it's not like Obama issued his own statement -- he was ASKED about it by a reporter at a completely unrelated event.
You are so hellbent on being right that you will insist you are despite having your feeble "argument" completely demolished.
No, he had the chance to make a neutral comment like " I believe that this is a heated issue and I hope that justice swiftly comes to resolve this current problem that the Martins and Zimmermans find themselves in". Instead he made a comment that clearly favored the Martins family.
Blablahb: People need to realise they or their children may well be the next victims of the gun lobby and the crazed 'kill them before they kill us' mentality they promote.
This again?
I'd like to compare this with something you said earlier
*Ahem*
Blablahb: I don't suppose this dumb attempt at guilttripping [sic] is ever going to stop is it?
Can I guess what's next? Likely it will involve the phrases "Blood in the streets", "Pro-violence lobby", and "NRA crazies" if your track record is any proof.
feeqmatic: Zimmerman's statement is not factual it is supposition and when measured against the facts it makes little sense.
Why not? What part of that statement is not supported by the facts other that the girlfriends statement?
I have yet to see any of you "supporters" of Zimmerman
Apparently you have not been reading my posts throughout this topic. In my first post (#61) I stated that Zimmerman would likely be charged with 2nd degree murder and throughout this topic I have stated that Zimmerman reacted foolishly.
admit that his statement and the facts simply dont meld well.
Like what?
Furthermore you keep throwing his statement out there as if its factual,
It is the only fact we do have. Specifically that he said it. In fact if you look at my statement you will see I stated quote, "except that by Zimmermans statement". In other words I was saying that you were not taking into account the story we actually had and were instead just guessing.
it is pathetically intellectually dishonest and makes me wonder why i bother responding.
Maybe because you are pathetically inadequate to the task of debating me but your pride will not allow you to back down (backed up by your perpetual insults and lack of content).
You keep responding to BlahBlah's trolling but refuse to address arguments that dont work in your favor.
And what is my favor exactly? Considering I have actually stated on this very thread that I will be using this case as an example to my students on how NOT to do it.
Zimmerman was 5-11 250 pounds, Martin was 6-3 150 pounds. You want to rethink your logic on who is "larger" It is clear from the video that Zimmerman was of a solid build, martin measures up as a string bean skinny kid. Again you are conveniently leaving out facts that dont support your points, it is getting sad.
Actually you are several weeks behind. That height was reported as an estimation for Martin. For Zimmerman his weight was recorded when he was arrested earlier but he lost a lot of weight between that time and the shooting (6 years is a long time). Actual height and weight-
Your questions dont acknowledge the fact that this is just my version of the story.
And your version is not backed up by anything (which was my overall point).
For all we know Trayvon was cornered
Cornered on an open lot. A couple of pages ago someone posted a picture of the place that Martin was shot, I suggest you look at it.
and he was already on the phone so he couldnt call the police
Wait a minute, Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend. Are saying that that call was so important that he could not hang up and call 911?
Either way, you are right that it is possible that Martin could have done a few more things to end the situation
Possible my ass.
but the HUGE difference is that Martin did not kill anyone.
If Zimmermans statement is true then he may have. Getting your head beat into the concrete is not pleasant and is very life threatening.
He does not have to prove self defense
Yes he does. You cannot just randomly attack someone just because they are following you. If that were legal I could legally beat someone up every day.
Zimmerman does because he made the decision to use deadly force on an unarmed teenage kid.
An unarmed teenage kid who seems to have been too stupid to properly deescalate the situation and may have in fact escalated it.
You Martin supporters don't seem to want to acknowledge that point. Maybe you should take your own advice and drop the fucking bias.
know that his story does not add up to facts that are available.
Which part?
I will concede that we dont know all of the facts, but the ones we do know do not point into Zimmermans favor
Actually most of the facts made available either do support Zimmerman or they are neutral.
and clearly there must be fire from the smoke for the prosecutor to go all the way to Murder 2.
Or......she is hoping he will plea down. That seems to be her bread and butter.
All I want is for you and others to stop trolling with BlahBlah, stop throwing out suppositions and honestly admit and analyze the facts that we know.
You know I was just about to say the same to you. Maybe you should do a bit of research and look through a few of my posts before you talk to me again.
Blablahb: People need to realise they or their children may well be the next victims of the gun lobby and the crazed 'kill them before they kill us' mentality they promote.
This again?
I'd like to compare this with something you said earlier
*Ahem*
Blablahb: I don't suppose this dumb attempt at guilttripping [sic] is ever going to stop is it?
Can I guess what's next? Likely it will involve the phrases "Blood in the streets", "Pro-violence lobby", and "NRA crazies" if your track record is any proof.
You forgot "the wild west," and "protecting the children."
Blablahb: People need to realise they or their children may well be the next victims of the gun lobby and the crazed 'kill them before they kill us' mentality they promote.
This again?
I'd like to compare this with something you said earlier
*Ahem*
Blablahb: I don't suppose this dumb attempt at guilttripping [sic] is ever going to stop is it?
Can I guess what's next? Likely it will involve the phrases "Blood in the streets", "Pro-violence lobby", and "NRA crazies" if your track record is any proof.
You forgot "the wild west," and "protecting the children."
True. But I already have those spaces on my anti-gun bingo.
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Sometimes this game isn't even fun on this forum. Way to easy, my friend.
The person more likely to be aggressive is the 30 year old with who is feeling confident about the gun in his pocket, who just complained that "these assholes always get away" who also said "these fucking punks" in regards to the random kid walking minding his own business. The guy that has consistently called police and played "watchmen" role in his neighborhood, not the 17 year old 150 pound kid who was in an unfamiliar neighborhood who had already RAN FROM THE GUY a few seconds earlier!
The random kid minding his own business was busted by his school just months before for having 12 items of women's jewlery in his backpack and a big ass screwdriver described as a burglarly tool. In my mind, the odds are better that Martin did look suspicious more so than Zimmerman was overzealous.
Then there's the bit about "why didn't you tell me you swung on a bus driver?" on Martin's twitter that comes from a brother I believe. Cannot be substantiated, but seems like an odd thing for a family member to ask in jest... So in my mind, Martin is more likely to start a fight. If you read his twitter, he was your average posturing 17 year old. It may be supposition to say such a kid wouldn't want to look like a wuss with his gf on the phone... or it may be a fairly accurate assumption for a kid his age. Makes much more sense than a grown man putting hands on anyone when he knows the police are coming; especially after he got arrested at 21 for removing the hands of an undercover cop off his friend.
Also, I don't know where this discrepancy about the location comes from. Zimmerman said Martin attacked him on the way back to his truck right? That's pretty flexible. If I were zimmerman, I'd take the long away around. I'd round the corner in the direction Martin went and circle the building, come back out on twin trees south of my truck. I wouldn't just do a straight 180 like a robot and march back to my truck.
This whole thing reminds me of a generation of young people that spew horse shit like you don't need to worry about privacy if you have nothing to hide. This is just an extension of that.
You don't need to use lethal force to defend yourself from an unarmed assailant, even though it's not all too difficult to kill someone with your bare hands.
If you kill someone you should stand a trial. Never mind that the whole reason for self defense laws is so that you do not have to stand trial or be treated like a criminal.
What's really funny is when I was young I went to the WTO protests, I marched for young unarmed black men gunned down by the police, I was in the Cinci riot... but I ain't marching for Trayvon. I probably wouldn't even if I were younger, because this was a media set up from the get go. The whole narrative, the skittles, the pictures of 12 year old looking Trayvon, made me want to wretch.
Whatever happens now, I just hope they find a jury that listens to the facts, because Zimmerman starting the fight simply does not make sense to me at all; that's where this whole thing hinges.
Number of times the President mentioned George Zimmerman: zero.
He never once implied Zimmerman's guilt in any way, shape or form. Next.
No, he just compared Trayvon to his own family, something that he should never had done in the first place
Yes, god forbid the President be human and personalize a tragedy.
Again, he did absolutely nothing that inferred anything about Zimmerman's guilt or innocence, period, end of story.
By personalizing the tragedy he de facto picked sides. It would be as if a black man went and killed some kid in the same situation and Bush went "If I had a son they would look just like Jack." when in point of fact except for skin color they would not look at all similar. And it would have been JUST as unacceptable. You do NOT engage in tragedy on a personal level in public as the president. It's part of the damn job.
More likely they're pushing for a plea bargain down to manslaughter. Much less likely they know they don't have a case, they're throwing murder 2 at him so when the trial's over they can say it's the jury's fault when there's no conviction.
Florida Murder 2
There's also the felony accomplice definition but that obviously doesn't apply.
I can see manslaughter bearing up if it's shown that Zimmerman lied about who started the confrontation, but combined with the witness who saw Zimmerman on the bottom I can't see any way for murder 2 to apply.