evilneko: I can understand editing down the call for the broadcast stations and their half-hour news shows, that doesn't excuse using the same version for the hour long shows on cable.
Neko, Neko, Neko, how readily you assume that the mainstream media is there to report news rather than manufacture narratives that journalists can believe in(and get paid for with ratings.) The call was edited that way in order to portray Zimmerman in the worst light possible! RACIST GUN NUT KILLS INNOCENT BLACK ALL-AMERICAN CHILD is precisely the story they were aiming for, mainly because "black thug gets killed by police" is so common, uninteresting, expected, and...let's face it...for certain people here...depressing, that no one can make ratings and viewers out of it.
But because the story was a Man Bites Dog event in this day and age, everyone feverishly worked to make sure this image was stuck in your head:
To coin a popular phrase, you didn't actually see or hear the implications, but your brain did. This is Defining Media Narratives 101.
If it wasn't raciallty motivated, what else could it be? Is he just some maniac that likes to shoot children in the chest? If you see the video of him being detained the night if the murder, he has zero blood on him, his nose is totally fine, if it were broken there would be blood everywhere, and if trayvon had been on top of him while he shot, he would have buckets of blood on him. Not a drop in sight. the man is a liar (his whole story makes 0 sense), and a cold blooded murderer. Perhaps the 50 odd calls he made in the last year ALONE 911'ing suspicious blacks who were minding their own damn business has to do with the "racial angle"? Im no fan of the media, but iin this case, the media is responsible for bringing this shitbag to justice, sanford county police sure as hell never would have on their own.
Once again do you have any proof that the Feds getting involved was even necessary?
Interjecting there; I don't know how the chain of law enforcement works there, but the impression I got was that the Feds do not get involved at all if it is not necessary to get involved?
farson135: As I said they could hold Zimmerman indefinably without charging him and charging him without evidence is dangerous and illegal.
Eh, they could just revoke his citizenship and that would no longer be a "legal" problem.
/drooling sarcasm
The FBI involved we're interested in this when they thought he had used a racial slurr. If this was a hate crime it would have been a federal offence. Since that's all they wanted and many of the tapes involved were edited so look racist then once they found that out then they didn't have much of a case. However is the special prosecuter also a fed or is she from the state?
farson135: How would Martin not know that that was not the case? How would Martin or anyone else know his intentions based on his actions? That is the part where you fail. You only know his intentions because he told us so. In a real life scenario Martin would not have known his intentions. Hell, for all Martin knew he was just out reading the meter and by random coincidence he ran down the same area that Martin did. That fact that you have to include Zimmerman's intentions proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. YOU CANNOT KNOW ZIMMERMANS INTENTIONS BASED ON HIM JUST FOLLOWING YOU. THAT IS THE POINT. I do not understand what is so difficult about this. I know you want to make Zimmerman as culpable as possible but can you not look past your bias long enough to see what I am saying?
Oh, stop it with the "bias" horseshit. It is possible for someone to disagree with you without being "biased." That's a cop-out word designed to make yourself feel better.
"For all Martin knew ..." It was quite obvious that Martin knew he was being followed. He told his girlfriend that on the phone. Stop it with the "Martin didn't know Zimmerman's intentions," since from the phone call it's quite obvious he figured it out.
farson135: Now who is being dishonest. I said him getting out of the car is stupid but it is irrelevant to the case. Your pathological need to attack anyone who thinks Martin royally fucked up is disturbing.
Should Martin have taken a swing at Zimmerman, if that's how it went down? No, probably not, although it's not difficult for me to see how Martin could have felt his safety was in jeopardy. But Zimmerman is the one who created the whole situation by trying to be Batman and chasing down someone he felt was "suspicious," which is in violation of the protocols of every neighborhood watch. They are not cops; they are not supposed to confront suspicious individuals unless they are intervening in a violent crime.
farson135: The police have nothing to do with whether or no a crime gets investigated or a person charged.
They have everything to do with whether they let a guy go free despite very questionable circumstances, they had everything to do with drug- and alcohol testing Martin's corpse but not Zimmerman, they had everything to do with immediately proclaiming Zimmerman's story of self-defense so very believable. They fucked up and it took federal investigators to do what should've been done from day 1.
Drug testing Zimmerman if he refused consent would have required a warrant. Given that the prosecuter would not cough up the go ahead to arrest prior to charges, it is HIGHLY unlikely a judge would have signed off on a drug test within the time needed to confirm presence of drugs in zimmerman's system during the incident. I'm pretty sure it's less than an 8 hour window for most drugs. to pinpoint time of recent use.
You can do alcohol testing without a warrant to drivers only because driving on government roads is a privileged and if you want to keep driving you better damn well let the state test for alcohol when they pull you over.
As for letting go free under questionable circumstances, they had ZERO evidence that he started the altercation(which incidentally means that his claims of defense are 100% valid in the eyes of the law), evidence that he had lost sight of Martin, an eyewitness who was the only one who saw ANY part of the altercation itself completely agreeing with Zimmerman's story, and he was cooperating fully with them. Over the next two days he even walked over the scene of the crime with them. Moreover, unless you are accusing the police of LYING, he had a broken nose and lacerated skull, injuries ALSO completely consistent with his story. As a prosecutor in the US(outside of Massachusetts and California) looking at that info you are unlikely to press charges. That the dumbass(she charged a 12 year old with adult murder. Now, while given the evidence the kid is probably a serial killer in the making, you DO NOT CHARGE a barely postpubescent child with adult murder. Consigned to a facility for the criminally insane, sure, but not an adult murder charge) special prosecutor is attempting to force a manslaughter plea deal with her murder 2 charge is merely more evidence that the cops got nothing.
Skeleon: Hell, Zimmerman went into hiding and even cut off communications with his own lawyers for a while. In Germany, a suspect that is feared to flee, cover up evidence or similar is not simply let go immediately after admittedly shooting somebody. I'm sure the USA have some laws in that regard.
Out of curiosity, how often do German criminals have a $10,000 USD bounty put on their head by the black version of the KKK and a government that categorically refuses to press charges on the person(s) offering the bounty? How often do old German people at a wrongfully reported address have to flee for their safety?
Vegosiux: Interjecting there; I don't know how the chain of law enforcement works there, but the impression I got was that the Feds do not get involved at all if it is not necessary to get involved?
It is the Feds prerogative. Technically they have jurisdiction across the entire US and (unless the particular Fed group has rules against it) they can get involved. Of course there are rules were the local LEOs could throw the Feds out but it usually doesn't happen.
Tyler Perry: "For all Martin knew ..." It was quite obvious that Martin knew he was being followed. He told his girlfriend that on the phone. Stop it with the "Martin didn't know Zimmerman's intentions," since from the phone call it's quite obvious he figured it out.
So Zimmerman's intention was to follow Martin and no more. Wow, that is absolutely horrifying. I can see why you are saying that Martins life was in danger.
although it's not difficult for me to see how Martin could have felt his safety was in jeopardy.
If he honestly felt he was in danger then why didn't he go home? It has been well established that Martins house was not far away. Also that he probably could have outrun Zimmerman. So why didn't he go home? Or hell, why not take that phone in his hand and call the police? Apparently he did not feel that afraid for his safety.
But Zimmerman is the one who created the whole situation by trying to be Batman and chasing down someone he felt was "suspicious," which is in violation of the protocols of every neighborhood watch. They are not cops; they are not supposed to confront suspicious individuals unless they are intervening in a violent crime.
Guess what, if Martin had gone home this would have been random neighborhood watch incident number 16,346,345. It is not supposed to happen but it does. Martin is the one that changed things. If he honestly felt his life was in danger he should have just gone home. THAT is the moment when the entire dynamic changed. You want to blame Zimmerman but the fact is that in 99 out of 100 cases his getting out of the car means nothing. It is Martins decision that changes the dynamic.
Tyler Perry: "For all Martin knew ..." It was quite obvious that Martin knew he was being followed. He told his girlfriend that on the phone. Stop it with the "Martin didn't know Zimmerman's intentions," since from the phone call it's quite obvious he figured it out.
So Zimmerman's intention was to follow Martin and no more. Wow, that is absolutely horrifying. I can see why you are saying that Martins life was in danger.
Boy, you sure like to change what people say, don't you?
First you say that Martin had no way of knowing that Zimmerman was following him. Then, when I point out that it's quite obvious he did, now all of a sudden Martin is supposed to be a psychic and know that following him was ALL that Zimmerman intended.
And also, I didn't say that Martin's life was in danger. I don't think Zimmerman got out of his truck intending to shoot Martin. What I did say, if you actually fucking read it, was that I can see why Martin may have thought Zimmerman's intentions were less than pure.
Although apparently Martin's life WAS in danger, since it ended minutes later.
farson135: Guess what, if Martin had gone home this would have been random neighborhood watch incident number 16,346,345. It is not supposed to happen but it does. Martin is the one that changed things. If he honestly felt his life was in danger he should have just gone home. THAT is the moment when the entire dynamic changed. You want to blame Zimmerman but the fact is that in 99 out of 100 cases his getting out of the car means nothing. It is Martins decision that changes the dynamic.
What-the-fuck-ever, dude. The fact that by chasing this supposedly suspicious individual around, Zimmerman violated every neighborhood watch protocol out there apparently doesn't matter to you. We should just go following people around whenever we want, and if someone gets spooked and takes a swing at ya, just shoot em!
Zimmerman was the one who decided to play cop. He is the one whose very actions from the get-go CREATED the dynamic that ended with Trayvon Martin dead. I do not understand how this is not sinking in.
Lil devils x: From what the witness reports have stated, the screaming for help was done by Zimmerman, or as they stated, the man in the red, who was on bottom being beaten up by Martin, the man on top, in gray. So it would appear the screams in the video were that of Zimmerman, not Martin. However, Zimmerman followed Martin against the directions of the police, and it could be reasonable to believe that Martin was acting in fear of his own life, and attacked Zimmerman in self defense. Zimmerman is in the wrong, because he followed Martin in the first place and started the confrontation.
Man screams for his life, fearing for his life, then shoots a guy. Makes sense! You know... if your brain don't work very well.
As I noted above, Zimmerman was almost certainly carrying at the small of his back. If he was on the ground, it would have been very difficult for him to grab his gun. Thus the panic and screaming.
IF he shot him while trayvon was on top, where is all the blood? Why is there not a single drop of blood on the man in the detainment video? Why is his nose so obviously unbroken? Again, where is the blood?
Man screams for his life, fearing for his life, then shoots a guy. Makes sense! You know... if your brain don't work very well.
As I noted above, Zimmerman was almost certainly carrying at the small of his back. If he was on the ground, it would have been very difficult for him to grab his gun. Thus the panic and screaming.
IF he shot him while trayvon was on top, where is all the blood? Why is there not a single drop of blood on the man in the detainment video? Why is his nose so obviously unbroken? Again, where is the blood?
You've been watching too many action movies. Shots to the chest by 9mm, especially point blank shots to the chest, don't generate a lot of blood out of the point of entry. Thus unless Martin landed square on top of Zimmerman, it's much more likely for their not to be blood from Martin on Zimmerman.
ravenshrike: As I noted above, Zimmerman was almost certainly carrying at the small of his back. If he was on the ground, it would have been very difficult for him to grab his gun. Thus the panic and screaming.
IF he shot him while trayvon was on top, where is all the blood? Why is there not a single drop of blood on the man in the detainment video? Why is his nose so obviously unbroken? Again, where is the blood?
You've been watching too many action movies. Shots to the chest by 9mm, especially point blank shots to the chest, don't generate a lot of blood out of the point of entry. Thus unless Martin landed square on top of Zimmerman, it's much more likely for their not to be blood from Martin on Zimmerman.
I and I take it this is empirical knowledge. Ok then, disregarding how unlikely that not a single drop of blood would fall on zimmerman from the gaping hole in trayvon chest (who z was supposedly fighting off from below), lets just assume what you said is true. What about the broken nose? A broken nose means gushing blood, I mean a torrent of blood all down your shirt, i do know that from experience. Where is the blood?
IF he shot him while trayvon was on top, where is all the blood? Why is there not a single drop of blood on the man in the detainment video? Why is his nose so obviously unbroken? Again, where is the blood?
You've been watching too many action movies. Shots to the chest by 9mm, especially point blank shots to the chest, don't generate a lot of blood out of the point of entry. Thus unless Martin landed square on top of Zimmerman, it's much more likely for their not to be blood from Martin on Zimmerman.
I and I take it this is empirical knowledge. Ok then, disregarding how unlikely that not a single drop of blood would fall on zimmerman from the gaping hole in trayvon chest (who z was supposedly fighting off from below), lets just assume what you said is true. What about the broken nose? A broken nose means gushing blood, I mean a torrent of blood all down your shirt, i do know that from experience. Where is the blood?
Ah, one of those. Unless you have concrete evidence showing that 4 cops, 2 paramedics, Zimmerman, Zimmerman's parents, and Zimmerman's neighbor are all lying about his injuries, I'm just going to ignore your troll ass.
ravenshrike: You've been watching too many action movies. Shots to the chest by 9mm, especially point blank shots to the chest, don't generate a lot of blood out of the point of entry. Thus unless Martin landed square on top of Zimmerman, it's much more likely for their not to be blood from Martin on Zimmerman.
I and I take it this is empirical knowledge. Ok then, disregarding how unlikely that not a single drop of blood would fall on zimmerman from the gaping hole in trayvon chest (who z was supposedly fighting off from below), lets just assume what you said is true. What about the broken nose? A broken nose means gushing blood, I mean a torrent of blood all down your shirt, i do know that from experience. Where is the blood?
Ah, one of those. Unless you have concrete evidence showing that 4 cops, 2 paramedics, Zimmerman, Zimmerman's parents, and Zimmerman's neighbor are all lying about his injuries, I'm just going to ignore your troll ass.
Total red herring, the video I showed was recorded immediately after the incident took place, these pictures are obviously from people whov'e had time to clean up and make it look as best they can. And for the record yes they all look like they have broken noses.
Total red herring, the video I showed was recorded immediately after the incident took place, these pictures are obviously from people whov'e had time to clean up and make it look as best they can. And for the record yes they all look like they have broken noses.
The video takes place about a half hour after the incident, at which EMT's cleaned him up. Way too early for any bruising to set in and it's a crappy high angle low res distance shot. Are you honestly saying you could tell from that perspective if any of the people in the pics I posted had broken noses?
ravenshrike: The video takes place about a half hour after the incident, at which EMT's cleaned him up. Way too early for any bruising to set in and it's a crappy high angle low res distance shot. Are you honestly saying you could tell from that perspective if any of the people in the pics I posted had broken noses?
If he had a broken nose, there would be blood all over his shirt, end of story
Stilt: If he had a broken nose, there would be blood all over his shirt, end of story
What about if his jacket was zipped up?
First of all, it would be visible on his jacket, second of all, even if it was a magic jacket that didnt get stained by blood, some of the blood would inevitably rush down his neck staining the shirt. Just think about it, a broken nose is a bloody mess
Stilt: First of all, it would be visible on his jacket
Red blood on a red and black jacket viewed through a crappy video.
some of the blood would inevitably rush down his neck staining the shirt. Just think about it, a broken nose is a bloody mess
First of all the chin prevents most of that. Second of all what if he put a rag to his nose or pinched his nose shut?
BTW a broken nose will only bleed a lot of the break is right.
A broken nose will bleed full stop, maybe zimmerman had awesome reflexes and was able to pull a handkerchief out to stop the blood as a 140 lb trayvon martin was viciously beating his 200 lb ass, yeah that\s the ticket. Let the child murde*ahem* poor, poor victim Z go free.
Not all do. Some breaks don't bleed at all. Usually you do bleed but the fact is that bleeding and breaks do not always go hand in hand.
maybe zimmerman had awesome reflexes and was able to pull a handkerchief out to stop the blood as a 140 lb trayvon martin was viciously beating his 200 lb ass, yeah that\s the ticket.
Or maybe his nose didn't bleed that much (since he was on the ground and his face was up) and when he got up he put a rag over his face.
Let the child murde*ahem* poor, poor victim Z go free.
I think you should take a break from the case because you are in no way objective
Not all do. Some breaks don't bleed at all. Usually you do bleed but the fact is that bleeding and breaks do not always go hand in hand.
maybe zimmerman had awesome reflexes and was able to pull a handkerchief out to stop the blood as a 140 lb trayvon martin was viciously beating his 200 lb ass, yeah that\s the ticket.
Or maybe his nose didn't bleed that much (since he was on the ground and his face was up) and when he got up he put a rag over his face.
Let the child murde*ahem* poor, poor victim Z go free.
I think you should take a break from the case because you are in no way objective
I started out objective, then I saw all the massive evidence proving how guilty this guy\ is.
Stilt: I started out objective, then I saw all the massive evidence proving how guilty this guy\ is.
Glad to know you have already solved the case. Why don't you and Blablahb have a pow wow and discuss how much smarter you are than everybody else. The evidence available does not prove conclusively that Zimmerman is guilty of anything other than being stupid and guess what, Martin was also stupid. Unfortunately for y'all, the law does not provide any legal recourse just for being stupid.
Stilt: I started out objective, then I saw all the massive evidence proving how guilty this guy\ is.
Glad to know you have already solved the case. Why don't you and Blablahb have a pow wow and discuss how much smarter you are than everybody else. The evidence available does not prove conclusively that Zimmerman is guilty of anything other than being stupid and guess what, Martin was also stupid. Unfortunately for y'all, the law does not provide any legal recourse just for being stupid.
If this prick goes free, i guarantee you we will have a rise in racially motivated killings, perhaps on both sides. The small kid had skittles and tea in his pockets, running away from some obsessive vigilante with a gun, the kid is dead, this is open and shut in any legitimate court
Tyler Perry: Boy, you sure like to change what people say, don't you?
I love the fact that you said that especially given what you are about to say.
First you say that Martin had no way of knowing that Zimmerman was following him.
Of course he wouldn't. Was the guy who was walking behind me when I when out to check the mail following me? I mean I walked up to the box put my key in and he was standing directly behind me. Are you stating that I should have drawn and covered him because he was obviously following me? Of course not, he just happened to be checking the mail at the same time I was and his box was close to mine so he was just waiting for his turn at the box. Have you noticed that I have a lot of these stories? The reason for that is because people following you a little ways is common place.
Once again, you are think of this incident in certain way because of what happened later. DO NOT DO THAT. Consider what happened later as if it never happened. Do you assume that the guy that is driving behind you is following you? Maybe, depends on the circumstance. But it is still an assumption. You do not know what is going on so you need to get more information. People like you are the reason some CHLs get into trouble because you think anything suspicious is considered a threat. Scratch that. In your daily life I doubt you would have thought much about Zimmerman's actions. Right now you just don't have the ability to think about it in that fashion.
Then, when I point out that it's quite obvious he did
No, it is not obvious. Are you stating unequivocally that NEVER in the history of man have events lined up to produce a similar situation where the guy was not actually following the other guy but was instead just going to the same place? If so you really what to get out more. I get followed by people all the time. Doesn't mean they mean to do so or that they have ill intentions. However according to you I should fear for my life because some random guy wants to ask directions from me.
now all of a sudden Martin is supposed to be a psychic and know that following him was ALL that Zimmerman intended.
YOU stated-
"For all Martin knew ..." It was quite obvious that Martin knew he was being followed. He told his girlfriend that on the phone. Stop it with the "Martin didn't know Zimmerman's intentions," since from the phone call it's quite obvious he figured it out.
It is laughable. YOU try and argue Martin understood Zimmerman's intentions and that intention was to follow him. Now you are backing off of it.
The fact is that Zimmerman's actions are not unusual or terrifying as proven by the fact that Martin stopped and talked to Zimmerman.
And also, I didn't say that Martin's life was in danger. I don't think Zimmerman got out of his truck intending to shoot Martin. What I did say, if you actually fucking read it, was that I can see why Martin may have thought Zimmerman's intentions were less than pure.
So you think that Martin was right to fear for his life but he was wrong to fear for his life. Got to love that logic.
Although apparently Martin's life WAS in danger, since it ended minutes later.
If he had gone home the only person he would have been in danger of would have been his mother. HE put his life in danger by not going home.
What-the-fuck-ever, dude. The fact that by chasing this supposedly suspicious individual around, Zimmerman violated every neighborhood watch protocol out there apparently doesn't matter to you. We should just go following people around whenever we want, and if someone gets spooked and takes a swing at ya, just shoot em!
Wow. And you accuse me of just making shit up. Look, the fact is that Zimmerman's actions were not illegal or threatening by themselves. Martin stopping and coming back changed the entire dynamic of the incident. Martin goes home and nothing happens. Zimmerman stays in his car maybe something still happens. People have been attacked in their cars before. The fact is that it was MARTINS decision that changed the dynamic not Zimmermans.
Zimmerman was the one who decided to play cop. He is the one whose very actions from the get-go CREATED the dynamic that ended with Trayvon Martin dead. I do not understand how this is not sinking in.
Because Martin created the situation by confronting Zimmerman. Zimmerman did not confront Martin, Martin confronted him. That is according to both Zimmerman and the girlfriends statement. THAT is what caused the attack. I lay the blame where it belongs, on both parties. You just want to hang Zimmerman and you refuse to acknowledge the pivotal part Martin played in his own death.
One of your main tactics is to accuse anyone who disagrees with you of bias or lack of objectivity, and it's really obnoxious.
Actually I just accuse people like you of it. You are determined to attack Zimmerman for whatever you can. It has nothing to do with the facts of the case. You have refused to admit the part Martin played in his own death. THAT is why you are biased. Why don't you fucking back off and consider what I am saying?
Stilt: If this prick goes free, i guarantee you we will have a rise in racially motivated killings, perhaps on both sides. The small kid had skittles and tea in his pockets, running away from some obsessive vigilante with a gun, the kid is dead, this is open and shut in any legitimate court
Uh the kid you are talking about may have beaten a man and slammed his head into the concrete. I notice you don't care to talk about that part. In addition Martin may have ran but he did not go very far. In fact he at least stopped and talked to Zimmerman and most likely turned around and confronted him. If Martin was truly afraid for his life he would have run home, hidden, or used the phone in his hand to call the police. He did none of those things and instead decided to talk to Zimmerman.
BTW why exactly would there be a rise in race related killings? Also I do not consider a 6 foot tall person small in any sense of the word.
If it wasn't raciallty motivated, what else could it be? Is he just some maniac that likes to shoot children in the chest? If you see the video of him being detained the night if the murder, he has zero blood on him, his nose is totally fine, if it were broken there would be blood everywhere, and if trayvon had been on top of him while he shot, he would have buckets of blood on him. Not a drop in sight. the man is a liar (his whole story makes 0 sense), and a cold blooded murderer. Perhaps the 50 odd calls he made in the last year ALONE 911'ing suspicious blacks who were minding their own damn business has to do with the "racial angle"? Im no fan of the media, but iin this case, the media is responsible for bringing this shitbag to justice, sanford county police sure as hell never would have on their own.
-A 17 year old football player is not a "child" by any sense of the term, particularly when it comes to identifying a potential criminal, or dealing with a hand to hand fight. In some ways, teenagers from about 16 on are MORE dangerous than the majority of legal adults in such situations. -Bullet wounds from a low to mid caliber pistol tend to bleed very little from the entry point if the gun was held at close range, at least to begin with. The blood tends to pool into internal cavities first and/or pump out of the much larger exit wound rather than coming out of a small opening where most of the blood vessels have been cauterized. I would only expect Zimmerman to be covered in blood if he had laid there with Martin on top of him for a minute or more. Even cold blooded murderers are just a bit unlikely to do that. -If Zimmerman had been led into the police station after being treated by EMTs while covered in blood, his own or Martin's, I'd be calling for said EMTs to be fired. They are supposed to clean such potential biohazards up if it is at all possible. -Plenty of possible motivations exist aside from racial hatred, ranging from Zimmerman's statement, to a simple accident, to a case of mistaken identity, to even a perceived self defense situation that played out a bit differently from Zimmerman's story (such as M turning around with something in his hand, Z thinks it is a gun and fires, after realizing his mistake, Z comes up with the current story instead.) -No genuine evidence has been presented showing anything resembling a racial motivation for Zimmerman. In fact, the only credible (albeit not yet 100% verified) story concerning his character in such matters that I have seen has him protesting and raising awareness about a 2010 case where a young black man much like Trayvon was beaten without cause, with the (white) assaulter getting off lightly. -Zimmerman's phone calls have already been vetted. Only about half of them concerned black males, in every case, he only mentions race after the operator asks him for it. As a captain of the neighborhood watch, Zimmerman was EXPECTED to call in about suspicious activity, whether or not he has undeniable proof of illegal activity. If you think that is still too many calls about suspicious blacks, feel free to argue with the statistics concerning that particular issue.
farson135: No, it is not obvious. Are you stating unequivocally that NEVER in the history of man have events lined up to produce a similar situation where the guy was not actually following the other guy but was instead just going to the same place? If so you really what to get out more. I get followed by people all the time. Doesn't mean they mean to do so or that they have ill intentions. However according to you I should fear for my life because some random guy wants to ask directions from me.
Wait ... what? Are you kidding? In what way did I even imply that? You are simply arguing from absurdity at this point.
Also, when someone is actually being followed when they are on foot and the other person is in a vehicle, it's pretty easy to tell that from "just going to the same place." Two cars pulling into the same place is not the same as a guy in a car slowly and, apparently, obviously following a pedestrian.
It is laughable. YOU try and argue Martin understood Zimmerman's intentions and that intention was to follow him. Now you are backing off of it.
Lolwut? I didn't back off of anything.
So you think that Martin was right to fear for his life but he was wrong to fear for his life. Got to love that logic.
Learn to fucking read. I didn't say Martin's life WAS in danger, since at that very moment I don't think it was. However, what I did say was that it was not unreasonable for Martin to think his life was in danger. There is a difference, although I see you're apparently not one for nuance.
Wow. And you accuse me of just making shit up. Look, the fact is that Zimmerman's actions were not illegal or threatening by themselves. Martin stopping and coming back changed the entire dynamic of the incident. Martin goes home and nothing happens. Zimmerman stays in his car maybe something still happens. People have been attacked in their cars before. The fact is that it was MARTINS decision that changed the dynamic not Zimmermans.
1. I never said Zimmerman's actions were illegal (regarding following Martin). I think they were unnecessary, stupid and paranoid, but not illegal.
2. How the fuck do you know if they were threatening? You weren't there. I don't know if they were threatening or not; however, Martin certainly felt threatened.
3. Zimmerman's decision to get out of the car and pursue Martin on foot CREATED the entire dynamic.
Actually I just accuse people like you of it. You are determined to attack Zimmerman for whatever you can. It has nothing to do with the facts of the case. You have refused to admit the part Martin played in his own death. THAT is why you are biased. Why don't you fucking back off and consider what I am saying?
I'm determined to attack Zimmerman for whatever I can? Reading comprehension ain't your strong suit, is it? What you are saying is largely based on supposition and your apparent clairvoyance. You are claiming that the situation was created by Martin, while completely dismissing the fact that George Zimmerman decided to play cop and pursued Martin in the first place.
BTW- Tech if you are still out there, you want to call this guy a racist for calling me boy? I doubt it.
Who called you "boy"?
farson135: If Martin was truly afraid for his life he would have run home, hidden, or used the phone in his hand to call the police. He did none of those things and instead decided to talk to Zimmerman.
Does the phrase "fight or flight" mean anything to you? Not everyone picks the latter option. Martin might not have been afraid for his life; however, he might have been afraid for his safety. Again, two different things.
Stilt: If this prick goes free, i guarantee you we will have a rise in racially motivated killings, perhaps on both sides. The small kid had skittles and tea in his pockets, running away from some obsessive vigilante with a gun, the kid is dead, this is open and shut in any legitimate court
Uh the kid you are talking about may have beaten a man and slammed his head into the concrete. I notice you don't care to talk about that part. In addition Martin may have ran but he did not go very far. In fact he at least stopped and talked to Zimmerman and most likely turned around and confronted him. If Martin was truly afraid for his life he would have run home, hidden, or used the phone in his hand to call the police. He did none of those things and instead decided to talk to Zimmerman.
BTW why exactly would there be a rise in race related killings? Also I do not consider a 6 foot tall person small in any sense of the word.
140lb kid thats 6'3" = small
Precedent for racial violence as an outcome: Rodney King verdict.
Slammed his head into the concrete? Yea right, the 1 witness corroborating his story is questionable, especially since there are many more witness on the other end of the scale. If you listen to the neighbors 911 call, the screams of help can clearly be heard, they are high pitched screams, childlike. The whole process is questionable, why didnt the police follow protocol and press Z immediately upon arrival? Why did the police just take Z's account at face value? That never happens normally, the best time to ask questions is immediately upon arrival because the suspect has no time to fabricate a story.
If some weird fat guy started following you at night, harassing you, isnt it normal to yell at the guy to go the fuck away and stop harassing you? To me that seems like a totally legitimate response to a stalker. Why didnt z listen to police when they told him not to follow tm? The evidence for your view that Z is innocent or that there's a reasonable doubt to his guilt is nonexistant, while my view that he is guilty is backed up by a landslide of evidence. Defending this guy is illogical at best and passive aggressively racist at worst
If it wasn't raciallty motivated, what else could it be? Is he just some maniac that likes to shoot children in the chest? If you see the video of him being detained the night if the murder, he has zero blood on him, his nose is totally fine, if it were broken there would be blood everywhere, and if trayvon had been on top of him while he shot, he would have buckets of blood on him. Not a drop in sight. the man is a liar (his whole story makes 0 sense), and a cold blooded murderer. Perhaps the 50 odd calls he made in the last year ALONE 911'ing suspicious blacks who were minding their own damn business has to do with the "racial angle"? Im no fan of the media, but iin this case, the media is responsible for bringing this shitbag to justice, sanford county police sure as hell never would have on their own.
-A 17 year old football player is not a "child" by any sense of the term, particularly when it comes to identifying a potential criminal, or dealing with a hand to hand fight. In some ways, teenagers from about 16 on are MORE dangerous than the majority of legal adults in such situations. -Bullet wounds from a low to mid caliber pistol tend to bleed very little from the entry point if the gun was held at close range, at least to begin with. The blood tends to pool into internal cavities first and/or pump out of the much larger exit wound rather than coming out of a small opening where most of the blood vessels have been cauterized. I would only expect Zimmerman to be covered in blood if he had laid there with Martin on top of him for a minute or more. Even cold blooded murderers are just a bit unlikely to do that. -If Zimmerman had been led into the police station after being treated by EMTs while covered in blood, his own or Martin's, I'd be calling for said EMTs to be fired. They are supposed to clean such potential biohazards up if it is at all possible. -Plenty of possible motivations exist aside from racial hatred, ranging from Zimmerman's statement, to a simple accident, to a case of mistaken identity, to even a perceived self defense situation that played out a bit differently from Zimmerman's story (such as M turning around with something in his hand, Z thinks it is a gun and fires, after realizing his mistake, Z comes up with the current story instead.) -No genuine evidence has been presented showing anything resembling a racial motivation for Zimmerman. In fact, the only credible (albeit not yet 100% verified) story concerning his character in such matters that I have seen has him protesting and raising awareness about a 2010 case where a young black man much like Trayvon was beaten without cause, with the (white) assaulter getting off lightly. -Zimmerman's phone calls have already been vetted. Only about half of them concerned black males, in every case, he only mentions race after the operator asks him for it. As a captain of the neighborhood watch, Zimmerman was EXPECTED to call in about suspicious activity, whether or not he has undeniable proof of illegal activity. If you think that is still too many calls about suspicious blacks, feel free to argue with the statistics concerning that particular issue.
He was SELF APPOINTED captain of the neighbor hood watch, its not an offical organization, in fact to my knowledge hes captain and its only member. Also, he said in the 911 call "They always get away, FUCKING COONS" Is that not evidence enough for you?? If not, then nothing will be.
First of all, it is 160 pounds according to the police report. I don't know who came up with 140 pounds, but it appears to simply be false.
secondly 6'3" is more than enough height to be intimidating, and Martin's involvement in football guarantees at least a minimal amount of muscle mass.
In addition, speaking as a 250 lb strong male who sometimes finds himself out-lifted by a 150 lb twig of a man I work with... Lets just say that physical appearances can be deceiving when it comes to appraising someone's ability to fight.
He was SELF APPOINTED captain of the neighbor hood watch, its not an offical organization, in fact to my knowledge hes captain and its only member. Also, he said in the 911 call "They always get away, FUCKING COONS" Is that not evidence enough for you?? If not, then nothing will be.
As for his position as a registered part of the official Neighborhood Watch program (www.usaonwatch.org), he may not have had to fight tooth and nail for the position, but was certainly far from self appointed...
As the only person to volunteer when the homeowners association wanted to organize a community watch, Zimmerman was appointed coordinator by his neighbors, according to Wendy Dorival, Neighborhood Watch organizer for the Sanford Police Department. The February 2012 homeowner association newsletter requested that crime victims "call our captain, George Zimmerman" after calling the police. "He [Zimmerman] once caught a thief and an arrest was made," said Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowners association. Police had been called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times from January 1, 2011, to February 26, 2012. Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts and one shooting. The City of Sanford posted a "George Zimmerman 911 Call History" listing 46 event reports naming George Zimmerman as the caller between 2004 and the night of the shooting. Zimmerman was licensed to carry a firearm. Sanford police chief Bill Lee stated that neighborhood watch volunteers are not encouraged to carry a gun but have a Constitutional right to do so. Lee further stated, "Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying his weapon when this incident occurred."
Its scary how true that is now.