Conspiracy Theorists/Theories that annoy you?

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Oh, yeah, one last thought for this thread:

Arthur D. Hlavaty:
Paranoia is the delusion that your enemies are organized

Sigh. For me, conspiracy theories are like eating potato chips. Here's one more that bugs me: The Satanic Panic. Those of you who lived through the late 80s and early 90s will remember this one: The idea that there was a HUGE, ORGANIZED multi-generational conspiracy of Satan-worshippers raping and murdering small children. Real lives got ruined over this delusion.

Seekster:

Nikolaz72:

George Bush ordered torture of prisoners of war, he is a war criminal. Simple.

Just as someone who murders someone else with a gun and isnt yet convicted, is also a criminal.

Im happy that the EU is becomming more indepedendant as a whole from the US, with China rising up we might get a bit more balanced in terms of world power. Yes, a lot of our politicians wanted him to go to court, but it was ultimately shut down because it could potentionally hurt our relations with America. We couldnt afford that (For some reason)

That depends on what you consider to be torture, at the time waterboarding was not considered torture by the relevant authorities in the US. Besides legally the detainees at Gitmo were not prisoners of war at the time.

Neither was keeping your prisoners naked, starving them. And exposing them to high-pitched noises. Doesnt mean it wasn't torture. If it was torture under international law. He was guilty of the war-crime of torturing prisoners internationally. His clearly guilty of theese crimes.

arbane:

Seekster:

Nikolaz72:

Bush wasnt made a war criminal for starting a war. He was made a war criminal for breaking international rules of war. Thats what a war criminal does. Torture ecetera, Wont go more into detail im sure others have before me, although im not done reading through the thread.

Bush has not to my knowledge ever been charged by an international court with War Crimes. Oh sure a few courts with no relevant jurisdiction have done so but this is merely showmanship.

That's because there's only one 'war crime' that actually matters: LOSING. As long as the US has nukes, Bush could have eaten an Iraqi baby a day on national television, and all the rest of the world could do is sigh and change the channel.

(And my captcha is 'face the music'. As if that's gonna happen...OTOH, I seem to recall Dick Cheney cancelled a trip to Canada recently.)

Speaking of Dubya, here's a conspiracy theory I know will raise a few peoples' blood-pressure here: Voting machines were rigged to help Bush win the 2000 and 2004 elections.

I believe it.

Heh and now time for a relevant "Seekism"

"An illegal war is one in which the aggressors lose."
-Seekster

I really don't see what having nukes has to do with Bush not being charged with war crimes. Its not as if we are going to threaten to nuke the Hague if they try and charge Bush.

Yes I have seen the "face the music" captcha more than a few times today.

As for allegations of voter fraud, that happens in basically every election in every country (more or less) the only reason it was significant in 2000 is because it was so close. I have never heard or seen any solid evidence that Bush had anything to do with voter fraud in either of his two election victories.

Seekster:

Actually technically if someone murders someone with a gun and are charged with murder then they are called "the accused". To be a criminal you have to actually be CONVICTED of a crime.

I'm sorry, but that would imply "It's not a crime unless you get caught". Considering you believe yourself to be morally sound, I seriously doubt you wanted to say that.

Nikolaz72:

Seekster:

Nikolaz72:

George Bush ordered torture of prisoners of war, he is a war criminal. Simple.

Just as someone who murders someone else with a gun and isnt yet convicted, is also a criminal.

Im happy that the EU is becomming more indepedendant as a whole from the US, with China rising up we might get a bit more balanced in terms of world power. Yes, a lot of our politicians wanted him to go to court, but it was ultimately shut down because it could potentionally hurt our relations with America. We couldnt afford that (For some reason)

That depends on what you consider to be torture, at the time waterboarding was not considered torture by the relevant authorities in the US. Besides legally the detainees at Gitmo were not prisoners of war at the time.

Neither was keeping your prisoners naked, starving them. And exposing them to high-pitched noises. Doesnt mean it wasn't torture. If it was torture under international law. He was guilty of the war-crime of torturing prisoners internationally. His clearly guilty of theese crimes.

I am not questioning that at some point some prisoners may have gone without clothes (Abu Gharib sure and that was wrong) but I just want you to admit that normally Gitmo prisoners wear clothes.

Not one man has ever died at Gitmo because he was denied access to sufficient food.

Exposure to high pitched noises is not torture (at least not in a legal sense).

If Bush is guilty of war crimes then let him be charged in an international court. Don't give me this bs "oh we don't want to offend America" answer. I know they are never going to be able to punish Bush but you can no more call Bush a war criminal than I can call Obama a communist.

On a related note, consistency check: what about the drone strikes that Obama has continued, or sending the CIA in to assassinate people or heck how about the raid where they illegally crossed into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden and his guards in the middle of the night? Do these things make Obama a war criminal too? (For the record I do not consider either Bush or Obama to be war criminals and find that charge towards either man to be laughable and political in nature).

Vegosiux:

Seekster:

Actually technically if someone murders someone with a gun and are charged with murder then they are called "the accused". To be a criminal you have to actually be CONVICTED of a crime.

I'm sorry, but that would imply "It's not a crime unless you get caught". Considering you believe yourself to be morally sound, I seriously doubt you wanted to say that.

Its a crime but you arent legally considered a criminal until you are convicted of a crime. Thats not an issue of morality thats jut how the legal system works. They teach us about that in Journalism School. We cannot call someone a criminal in a news article until they are actually convicted of a crime (this is why you see the term "alleged" used a lot in legal stories).

Seekster:

Nikolaz72:

Seekster:

That depends on what you consider to be torture, at the time waterboarding was not considered torture by the relevant authorities in the US. Besides legally the detainees at Gitmo were not prisoners of war at the time.

Neither was keeping your prisoners naked, starving them. And exposing them to high-pitched noises. Doesnt mean it wasn't torture. If it was torture under international law. He was guilty of the war-crime of torturing prisoners internationally. His clearly guilty of theese crimes.

I am not questioning that at some point some prisoners may have gone without clothes (Abu Gharib sure and that was wrong) but I just want you to admit that normally Gitmo prisoners wear clothes.

Not one man has ever died at Gitmo because he was denied access to sufficient food.

Exposure to high pitched noises is not torture (at least not in a legal sense).

If Bush is guilty of war crimes then let him be charged in an international court. Don't give me this bs "oh we don't want to offend America" answer. I know they are never going to be able to punish Bush but you can no more call Bush a war criminal than I can call Obama a communist.

On a related note, consistency check: what about the drone strikes that Obama has continued, or sending the CIA in to assassinate people or heck how about the raid where they illegally crossed into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden and his guards in the middle of the night? Do these things make Obama a war criminal too? (For the record I do not consider either Bush or Obama to be war criminals and find that charge towards either man to be laughable and political in nature).

Obama Communist, communist acts he has done 0. Bush War Criminal. Warcrimes he has commited, larger than 0. I find one a bit less ridiculous than the other. That being said.

No, the fact that it would hurt the relations with the US is a big factor in nobody having the balls to stand up and say it internationally. As I said before it has been said plenty of times nationally, by people the goverment can safely say they disagree with if asked. Because usually the politicians in control are spineless when it comes to standing up to the US, but they still want to give the voters the 'idea' that they disagree with theese crimes. Obama used information that George Bush got by torture, I cannot approve of the method used to gain the information and I want the person who got the information using that method punished. But at the same time I would find it pointless to let the information go to waste. That would be the equavelant of having burned all of the Nazi's research post-WW2. One thing it gave us was a way to treat people who nearly drowned in cold water.

So because nobody has died of torture it wasnt torture? Torture's purpose is not killing people Seekster. Its torturing them.

Sigh. Remember back when the US actually pretended to be horrified by torture?

I miss those days, hypocritical though they may have been.

Relevant quote:

Wakshaani at RPG.net:
You know, what I think I might be upset over BushCo more than anything is the fact that talking about what they DID do is so amazingly far-fetched that I have to cast a new eye at the conspiracy people.
See, many, many years ago, I was seeing reports from citizens about a "Black CIA jetplane" that was taking prisoners secretly from teh US to other countries for torture.
"Psssh" I said, "As if. We're America, you tards. We don't DO that."
A year later, the stories continue, with photos of teh planes and tracking the tail numbers.
"Guys, what, photoshop or something? Please. Yeah yeah, the FAA won't talk about what plane that is. STill not true."
Then we find out that, yeah, we *are* having teh CIA send people oversees for 'interrogations.'
Son of a BITCH.

Nikolaz72:

Seekster:

Nikolaz72:

Neither was keeping your prisoners naked, starving them. And exposing them to high-pitched noises. Doesnt mean it wasn't torture. If it was torture under international law. He was guilty of the war-crime of torturing prisoners internationally. His clearly guilty of theese crimes.

I am not questioning that at some point some prisoners may have gone without clothes (Abu Gharib sure and that was wrong) but I just want you to admit that normally Gitmo prisoners wear clothes.

Not one man has ever died at Gitmo because he was denied access to sufficient food.

Exposure to high pitched noises is not torture (at least not in a legal sense).

If Bush is guilty of war crimes then let him be charged in an international court. Don't give me this bs "oh we don't want to offend America" answer. I know they are never going to be able to punish Bush but you can no more call Bush a war criminal than I can call Obama a communist.

On a related note, consistency check: what about the drone strikes that Obama has continued, or sending the CIA in to assassinate people or heck how about the raid where they illegally crossed into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden and his guards in the middle of the night? Do these things make Obama a war criminal too? (For the record I do not consider either Bush or Obama to be war criminals and find that charge towards either man to be laughable and political in nature).

Obama Communist, communist acts he has done 0. Bush War Criminal. Warcrimes he has commited, larger than 0. I find one a bit less ridiculous than the other. That being said.

No, the fact that it would hurt the relations with the US is a big factor in nobody having the balls to stand up and say it internationally. As I said before it has been said plenty of times nationally, by people the goverment can safely say they disagree with if asked. Because usually the politicians in control are spineless when it comes to standing up to the US, but they still want to give the voters the 'idea' that they disagree with theese crimes. Obama used information that George Bush got by torture, I cannot approve of the method used to gain the information and I want the person who got the information using that method punished. But at the same time I would find it pointless to let the information go to waste. That would be the equavelant of having burned all of the Nazi's research post-WW2. One thing it gave us was a way to treat people who nearly drowned in cold water.

So because nobody has died of torture it wasnt torture? Torture's purpose is not killing people Seekster. Its torturing them.

Again, both charges are political. You find one less ridiculous than the other because of your political views. I know you are going to reject that but it fits with what you have shown us so far on this subject.

The ironic thing is you are behaving in the exact same way that a conspiracy theorist does, claiming its a cover up (of a sort) and rejecting inconvenient facts. And then to top it off you compare Bush to the nazis.

No because for starvation to work as torture you have to be at or near the point of death. Simple denial of a filling meal is not torture.

"The left-wing media and liberal college professors and teachers are out to indoctrinate children with Socialist and liberal ideals. This will destroy America."

Sorry to point this out, but that 'indoctrination' is actually called 'education'. Facts tend to go against hardcore conservatism. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's not true.

Though my all time favourite conspiracy theory? Three words:

"The Homosexual Agenda."

ReservoirAngel:
"The left-wing media and liberal college professors and teachers are out to indoctrinate children with Socialist and liberal ideals. This will destroy America."

Sorry to point this out, but that 'indoctrination' is actually called 'education'. Facts tend to go against hardcore conservatism. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's not true.

That is more of an exaggeration though if you take the "Rush Limbaugh" approach and assume that the media and college professors tend to be overwhelmingly liberal because its a planned scheme by the "left" then yeah that is a conspiracy. Just to clarify though university professors and journalists (though I am an exception to this rule) do tend to lean left overall. This I think has more to do with political culture than anything else. For example the left in this country (the United States in my case) tends to hold the traditional view of journalism (aka the idealistic naive one) that its all about exposing the corrupt businessman or government and saving the little guy. As such someone with more liberal views is more likely to want to go into journalism than say someone with conservative views who may not have such a rosy picture of what journalism today is (which begs the question, why the heck did I major in it...not that anyone cares).

BOOM headshot65:

Seekster:

Katatori-kun:
Climate change deniers are the most destructive, because this stuff has real consequences. People will actually die due to the disasters that arise from man-made climate change, but apparently their lives aren't as important as some bat-crap crazy guy exercising his fantasy of proving he's not a dumbass who failed "Intro to Earth Sciences" in high school by showing that all climatologists in the world are in some grand conspiracy to make you feel bad about using too much oil.

I would submit that people are going to die from disasters caused by climate change whether people believe climate change exists or not.

Interestingly enought, Buzz Aldrin doesnt believe global warming is caused by man.

Is Buzz Aldrin a climatologist? No?

OK then.

arbane:

Speaking of Dubya, here's a conspiracy theory I know will raise a few peoples' blood-pressure here: Voting machines were rigged to help Bush win the 2000 and 2004 elections.

I believe it.

Google "Ohio 2004 election fraud" and prepare to be floored.

2000 was a gift from SCOTUS. It wasn't stolen, but it did fall off the back of a truck.

Seekster:
And then to top it off you compare Bush to the nazis.

Did you actually read his post? Because no, he did not "compare Bush to the Nazis."

Seekster:
I have never heard or seen any solid evidence that Bush had anything to do with voter fraud in either of his two election victories.

http://harpers.org/archive/2005/08/0080696

READ IT.

2000 was malpractice on the SCOTUS' part. 2004 was downright theft.

Grandcrusader:
hello

the government can do that.

how you think they hold top secret aircraft designs from the public in Area 51?

what do they do there? do you know? NOPE!! its secret, with hundreds of people.

you are only fooling yourself if you believe the government cant keep a secret.

Someone's off their medication. Present me real proof of conspiracies like the alleged moon landing hoax, and I'll believe you. But just telling me that the capacity to keep a secret for some unspecified amount of time is proof that all conspiracies are real is just asking me to write you off as a loon.

Seekster:
That depends on what you consider to be torture, at the time waterboarding was not considered torture by the relevant authorities in the US. Besides legally the detainees at Gitmo were not prisoners of war at the time.

So inventing loopholes and playing with semantics makes it morally okay. Got it.

Holocaust deniers. So 6,000,000+ people just hid themselves away, used Hitler as a puppet and forged all the horrible documents from these camps so the Jews would get an insignifigent strip of land with neighbours that hate them? BULLSHIT! I honestly want to punch these people in the teeth, because most know they're lying and are either Neo-Nazis or Islamic Fundementalists who have something to gain from getting people to buy this crock of shit.

Flat earthers, because apparently every single photo ever taken that could prove the earth is round has been faked.

All of 'em, really. Moon landing, Illuminati, Da Vinci Code-bullshit, flat earth, 11/9 "truthers", they all bug the hell out of me. They are entirely, and I do mean to 100%, insane and based on the same faulty logic. I can't stand the dumb shits who buy into them. Problem is, I hate even more when otherwise intelligent and rational people buy into them.

arbane:
If you haven't already, read Umberto Eco's book Foucault's Pendulum. It's a very erudite story of a recreational conspiracy theory that gets very badly out of hand. When I become World Overlord, Dan Brown fans will be forced to read this one.

I'd also recommend The Illuminatus! Trilogy, which was written in the late 60s, and was basically an satirical attempt to make the Conspiracy Theory To End All Conspiracy Theories. Plus large amounts of sex, drugs, and rock & roll.

One that bothers me is the 'Monarch' believers. This is basically a huge conspiracy theory that the US overgovernment has perfected brainwashing to the point that they can program human beings like VCRs, and use this primarily to make pop singers into sex-slaves for very important people. But then they let said popstars put all sorts of 'Illuminati symbolism' in their videos...

What bothers me about this is, how can anyone believe this stuff, and still live a normal life? I'd think bombing, assassination, and arson would be the SANE reaction to this worldview.

I have heard of Focault's Pendulum but yet to pick it up. The first I heard of it made it sound like a mathematicians Finnegan's Wake so I steered clear but its popularity has got me thinking it is not quite so dense as that.

Illuminatus I have read and it is definitely one of my all time favourites. My SN actually comes from the Schrodinger's Cat trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson (not, in fact, the song by Black Dahlia Murder which I do not even like unfortunately).

And Monarch sounds a lot like Joss Whedon's Dollhouse. I suppose that is perhaps where he got his inspiration.

Rocklobster93:
Flat earthers, because apparently every single photo ever taken that could prove the earth is round has been faked.

I'm sorry I refuse to believe that there are actually still people who seriously believe the world to be flat. Then again there are people who still believe that we never landed on the moon despite the orbital photos of the Apollo landing sites.

the ancient astronaut stuff annoys me. its disrespetful not to mention arrogant.. "oh those people werent intelliegent enough to work out how to do it so it must of been an alien" it dismisses all their achievements

Seekster:

Rocklobster93:
Flat earthers, because apparently every single photo ever taken that could prove the earth is round has been faked.

I'm sorry I refuse to believe that there are actually still people who seriously believe the world to be flat. Then again there are people who still believe that we never landed on the moon despite the orbital photos of the Apollo landing sites.

It is true, though, there are people who still believe in a flat earth. I am so sorry you had to learn about this.

Conspiracy theories I do not like are:

9/11 was an inside job.
Not only is this ridiculous and unsubstantiated by evidence, it is also very disrespectful of everyone touched by the events. The sheer amount of people that needed to be involved in this conspiracy without any leak of information makes this one a very silly conspiracy.

The earth is flat/evolution is not real/other contradictions to facts.
This goes without saying. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it is a duck.

Chemtrails.
This one is so stupid I can't even understand. Apart from the supposed effects they should have on the population witch just are not present, the supposed chemtrails are just the result of jet engines on high altitude.

A worldwide group that secretly controls everything.
If you believe this, then you do not understand human beings, the world, or anything else for that matter.

The moonlanding was a hoax!
This one deserves no explanation.

Ancient and/or modern gods are ancient astronauts!
Disrespectful to about every religion on earth, unsubstantiated by evidence... we've got a winner here! A horrible, horrible winner.

nikki191:
the ancient astronaut stuff annoys me. its disrespetful not to mention arrogant.. "oh those people werent intelliegent enough to work out how to do it so it must of been an alien" it dismisses all their achievements

Argh, yes. It's annoying for them to make those claims to begin with, but to deny achievements because the denier canfigure out how they could be done...fuck that.

TheStatutoryApe:

I have heard of Focault's Pendulum but yet to pick it up. The first I heard of it made it sound like a mathematicians Finnegan's Wake so I steered clear but its popularity has got me thinking it is not quite so dense as that.

It _IS_ pretty scholarly, but I liked it. And it's well-written. It's definitely not ac cryptic as Finnegan's Wake.

TheStatutoryApe:

Illuminatus I have read and it is definitely one of my all time favourites. My SN actually comes from the Schrodinger's Cat trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson (not, in fact, the song by Black Dahlia Murder which I do not even like unfortunately).

Oh, DUH. I didn't make the connection. :D

TheStatutoryApe:

And Monarch sounds a lot like Joss Whedon's Dollhouse. I suppose that is perhaps where he got his inspiration.

And you call yourself a conspiracy theorist? No, no - Dollhouse was Them deliberately spilling the beans because.... because they're evil, I guess. I dunno. Maybe a Primus Illuminatus lost a bet.

A conspiracy I heard of, though it's really more of an urban legend, goes that you shouldn't put "organ donor" on your driver's license because then if you get in an accident, the paramedics will let you die so that they can harvest your organs afterward.

Heard it when I was a kid, and even then I thought it was stupid because my first question was, "If the paramedics get on the scene and see a guy wounded, when do they find time to check his driver's license?"

Elcarsh:
All of 'em, really. Moon landing, Illuminati, Da Vinci Code-bullshit, flat earth, 11/9 "truthers", they all bug the hell out of me. They are entirely, and I do mean to 100%, insane and based on the same faulty logic. I can't stand the dumb shits who buy into them. Problem is, I hate even more when otherwise intelligent and rational people buy into them.

The reason that "otherwise intelligent and rational people" believe that shit is because they're lizardmen born in Area 51. It was on the History Channel, so it must be true!

hardlymotivated:
The reason that "otherwise intelligent and rational people" believe that shit is because they're lizardmen born in Area 51. It was on the History Channel, so it must be true!

Bullshit; I won't believe it until either Fox News, The Onion or the Daily Mail have confirmed it!

Notice how seamlessly The Onion fits in between those two, by the way.

Seekster:

Rocklobster93:
Flat earthers, because apparently every single photo ever taken that could prove the earth is round has been faked.

I'm sorry I refuse to believe that there are actually still people who seriously believe the world to be flat. Then again there are people who still believe that we never landed on the moon despite the orbital photos of the Apollo landing sites.

Oh, such wonderful gifts I bestow upon you:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

So much brainwashing going on here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=53487.0

AlotFirst:

Seekster:

Rocklobster93:
Flat earthers, because apparently every single photo ever taken that could prove the earth is round has been faked.

I'm sorry I refuse to believe that there are actually still people who seriously believe the world to be flat. Then again there are people who still believe that we never landed on the moon despite the orbital photos of the Apollo landing sites.

Oh, such wonderful gifts I bestow upon you:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

So much brainwashing going on here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=53487.0

I choose to believe that this is a joke...just like I choose to believe there was never a live-action Dragonball movie...because there wasn't that would just be stupid...like getting M Night Shyamalan to make a live action Avatar: The Last Airbender movie stupid...good think they never did that either...

Birthers. Fuck those guys. The whole NWO thing.

Elcarsh:

hardlymotivated:
The reason that "otherwise intelligent and rational people" believe that shit is because they're lizardmen born in Area 51. It was on the History Channel, so it must be true!

Bullshit; I won't believe it until either Fox News, The Onion or the Daily Mail have confirmed it!

Notice how seamlessly The Onion fits in between those two, by the way.

That's a terrible slander on the accuracy and integrity of the Onion. Isn't keeping their satire out in advance of reality hard enough already? :D

"The Holocaust was not real" and by this is so not men the people who merely cut down on the causalities by 20-50% most of those are absurd but not actually to the point of anger. i mean the one who say thin like "around 500-1000 Jews got killed so we had a war" the reason behind this is normally some bullshit about how Jews run every government on earth.

arbane:

Elcarsh:

hardlymotivated:
The reason that "otherwise intelligent and rational people" believe that shit is because they're lizardmen born in Area 51. It was on the History Channel, so it must be true!

Bullshit; I won't believe it until either Fox News, The Onion or the Daily Mail have confirmed it!

Notice how seamlessly The Onion fits in between those two, by the way.

That's a terrible slander on the accuracy and integrity of the Onion. Isn't keeping their satire out in advance of reality hard enough already? :D

My friend used topics from the Onion in a collage essay so some people so take that stuff seriously. One of the must hilariously stupid things I have witnessed, it was not even one of their semi-believable articles that had a chance of happening... i have dumb friends.

Seekster:

I choose to believe that this is a joke...just like I choose to believe there was never a live-action Dragonball movie...because there wasn't that would just be stupid...like getting M Night Shyamalan to make a live action Avatar: The Last Airbender movie stupid...good think they never did that either...

There's a live action Avatar: TLA movie?

OT: I fucking hate conspiracy theories. They require such a huge stretch of logic that I'm surprised anyone actually believes in them.

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