Why is the US on good terms with communist Vietnam and China, our former enemies, but not Cuba?

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It's not clear to me why Cuba is a special case. After all, the United States never fought a war against Cuba (Bay of Pigs was a CIA proxy "war"), but fought bitterly against the Chinese in Korea and failed to stop the communist takeover of Vietnam. Now both countries are big trade partners and have billions invested in US currency and property (earlier this week, two Vietnamese businessmen bought America's smallest town, Buford, Wyoming, for $900,000).

I don't understand why the US government maintains a 50+ year embargo against its small, mostly harmless neighbor. The Cuban-American lobby isn't significant outside of Florida. Any argument about civil rights violations by the Castro regime is hypocritical bullshit considering the United States is buddy-buddy with China, Vietnam, and Saudi Arabia, all of which are totalitarian regimes with long histories of repressing their people. True, the embargo made sense during the Cold War because of the threat of Soviet expansion, but after the fall of the USSR, Cuba's military contracted significantly. Cuba's navy is a joke, their air force fell from a high of 230 functioning planes in 1990 to less than sixty as of 2010, and their army is meant mostly to quell internal dissent.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/08/24/ten-reasons-to-lift-the-cuba-embargo/

The Cuban embargo is utterly pointless, horribly out of date, directly contributes to that nation's poverty, and accomplishes nothing.

I always assumed the US hates Cuba because it just wouldn't be politically intelligent for anyone in power to reopen relations with Cuba. People would get all "you're selling out to the communists!" and "you hate freedom!" on the unfortunate politician. I believe there are a number of Cuban-Americans who fiercely oppose Castro's regime. Maybe when Castro dies and Cuba has a regime change, we can finally let go of that Cold War hatred...

I think it might be some adequacy issues. Cuba still has a largely socialist economy and still has a health care system almost on par with ours even though it's not technically a developed nation. Cuba does have some progress to make in terms of personal freedoms, but there is no good reason for the U.S embargo to still be in place, and aside from archaic red scare mentalities that never died i can't think of why it's still up. Probably the U.S would demand a regime change and economic system change before the embargo would be dropped, though it doesn't seem like the Cuban people themselves would be all for that change. There's also a lot of misinformation about the Castro family going on because they embrace a political system our own corrupt political system disagrees with.

Or maybe this explanation fits better: Because the U.S is lead by morally retarded children who won't change the policy because Cuba won't do things exactly the way they want.

dyre:
I always assumed the US hates Cuba because it just wouldn't be politically intelligent for anyone in power to reopen relations with Cuba. People would get all "you're selling out to the communists!" and "you hate freedom!" on the unfortunate politician.

I think this is the correct answer. Kinda sad really. There's no good reason to keep it up other than that stupid people won't like it if you don't.

Because Vietnam and China went 'okay, now that that's done, we're cool right?' after their little war with the NATO and the US respectively, and Cuba continued to be hostile towards the US.

Vietnam for instance invaded Cambodia and removed Pol Pot's regime of terror, sacrificing thousands of soldiers to achieve that goal. That in turn caused China to invade Vietnam and the US to break off relations (so both those supported Pol Pot's regime of terror, mind you) and with that, the communist powers began to split up and conflict. The US remaining completely hostile would've created a common foe and a unifying factor. By thawing out he cold war, there was more room for internal disagreements.

The Cuban-American contingent that hates Castro is small and is largely concentrated in Florida; however, they do hold enough sway in Florida to sway an election. My guess is that the powers that be in both parties fear that the Cuban-American bloc would swing heavily against the party deemed responsible for ending the embargo, and since Florida is such a vitally important swing state in presidential elections (and hey, two Senators can make an enormous difference), they are just leaving it alone.

Basically, there is not enough political capital to end it. Cuba doesn't have enough political or economic influence to cause anyone in the US to push for ending the embargo, and there are enough voters who do want the embargo in swing vote districts so that no sensible politician will touch the issue.

In the case of both Vietnam and China, there is sufficient economic pressures to override any ideological problems. Money is generally the most powerful substance in politics, and Cuba doesn't have enough of it (or the potential to make it) to entice politicians to stop the embargo.

Going by the logic of the OP, would he advocate opening relations with N. Korea.

The reason the Cuban embargo stands is because Cuba hasn't done anything to make the US interested in making a deal with them. Both China and Vietnam made gestures of peace towards the United States long before the Us opened relations with them. Vietnam opened their borders to allow the US to collect the remains of the US soldiers who died there, and later released increasing numbers of those soldiers that were captured so they could be returned home. This was a huge reason for the thawing of relations between the US and Vietnam, as that was a respectful gesture that showed that that Vietnam had no hard feeling (at least diplomatically).

Cuba has done none of these things and has made no signs of attempting to bury the hatchet with the United States. Why pray tell would the US want to have anything to do with a Cuba that isn't willing to make any gesture of reconciliation. Because it looks good is not a valid reason for diplomatic contact.

Dhael:

Cuba has done none of these things and has made no signs of attempting to bury the hatchet with the United States. Why pray tell would the US want to have anything to do with a Cuba that isn't willing to make any gesture of reconciliation. Because it looks good is not a valid reason for diplomatic contact.

Reconciliation for WHAT? What, exactly, did Cuba do to us that they need to make amends for?

Because those 2 have become much more friendly to the US, a lot of people hate Castro. Plus, Cuba is much closer. If they turn out to still be hostile, they could cause a lot more problems for us.

Brawndo:
It's not clear to me why Cuba is a special case. After all, the United States never fought a war against Cuba (Bay of Pigs was a CIA proxy "war"), but fought bitterly against the Chinese in Korea and failed to stop the communist takeover of Vietnam. Now both countries are big trade partners and have billions invested in US currency and property (earlier this week, two Vietnamese businessmen bought America's smallest town, Buford, Wyoming, for $900,000).

I don't understand why the US government maintains a 50+ year embargo against its small, mostly harmless neighbor. The Cuban-American lobby isn't significant outside of Florida. Any argument about civil rights violations by the Castro regime is hypocritical bullshit considering the United States is buddy-buddy with China, Vietnam, and Saudi Arabia, all of which are totalitarian regimes with long histories of repressing their people. True, the embargo made sense during the Cold War because of the threat of Soviet expansion, but after the fall of the USSR, Cuba's military contracted significantly. Cuba's navy is a joke, their air force fell from a high of 230 functioning planes in 1990 to less than sixty as of 2010, and their army is meant mostly to quell internal dissent.

Its called the leader Fidel Castro

KlLLUMINATI:

Brawndo:
It's not clear to me why Cuba is a special case. After all, the United States never fought a war against Cuba (Bay of Pigs was a CIA proxy "war"), but fought bitterly against the Chinese in Korea and failed to stop the communist takeover of Vietnam. Now both countries are big trade partners and have billions invested in US currency and property (earlier this week, two Vietnamese businessmen bought America's smallest town, Buford, Wyoming, for $900,000).

I don't understand why the US government maintains a 50+ year embargo against its small, mostly harmless neighbor. The Cuban-American lobby isn't significant outside of Florida. Any argument about civil rights violations by the Castro regime is hypocritical bullshit considering the United States is buddy-buddy with China, Vietnam, and Saudi Arabia, all of which are totalitarian regimes with long histories of repressing their people. True, the embargo made sense during the Cold War because of the threat of Soviet expansion, but after the fall of the USSR, Cuba's military contracted significantly. Cuba's navy is a joke, their air force fell from a high of 230 functioning planes in 1990 to less than sixty as of 2010, and their army is meant mostly to quell internal dissent.

Its called the leader Fidel Castro

Who, yanno, isn't the leader anymore. His brother is.

Tyler Perry:

Dhael:

Cuba has done none of these things and has made no signs of attempting to bury the hatchet with the United States. Why pray tell would the US want to have anything to do with a Cuba that isn't willing to make any gesture of reconciliation. Because it looks good is not a valid reason for diplomatic contact.

Reconciliation for WHAT? What, exactly, did Cuba do to us that they need to make amends for?

Being "Commies"?

OT: I do not know and I'm not qualified to make a statement for or against it.

Tyler Perry:

KlLLUMINATI:

Brawndo:
It's not clear to me why Cuba is a special case. After all, the United States never fought a war against Cuba (Bay of Pigs was a CIA proxy "war"), but fought bitterly against the Chinese in Korea and failed to stop the communist takeover of Vietnam. Now both countries are big trade partners and have billions invested in US currency and property (earlier this week, two Vietnamese businessmen bought America's smallest town, Buford, Wyoming, for $900,000).

I don't understand why the US government maintains a 50+ year embargo against its small, mostly harmless neighbor. The Cuban-American lobby isn't significant outside of Florida. Any argument about civil rights violations by the Castro regime is hypocritical bullshit considering the United States is buddy-buddy with China, Vietnam, and Saudi Arabia, all of which are totalitarian regimes with long histories of repressing their people. True, the embargo made sense during the Cold War because of the threat of Soviet expansion, but after the fall of the USSR, Cuba's military contracted significantly. Cuba's navy is a joke, their air force fell from a high of 230 functioning planes in 1990 to less than sixty as of 2010, and their army is meant mostly to quell internal dissent.

Its called the leader Fidel Castro

Who, yanno, isn't the leader anymore. His brother is.

Just like Cheney wasn't the one in charge.

The answer is simple: How much of the stuff in your house would you not have if we weren't friends with Vietnam and China? Probably most of it.

Tyler Perry:

Dhael:

Cuba has done none of these things and has made no signs of attempting to bury the hatchet with the United States. Why pray tell would the US want to have anything to do with a Cuba that isn't willing to make any gesture of reconciliation. Because it looks good is not a valid reason for diplomatic contact.

Reconciliation for WHAT? What, exactly, did Cuba do to us that they need to make amends for?

Chasing out the Mob when the Commies took over, I suspect.

arbane:

Tyler Perry:

Dhael:

Cuba has done none of these things and has made no signs of attempting to bury the hatchet with the United States. Why pray tell would the US want to have anything to do with a Cuba that isn't willing to make any gesture of reconciliation. Because it looks good is not a valid reason for diplomatic contact.

Reconciliation for WHAT? What, exactly, did Cuba do to us that they need to make amends for?

Chasing out the Mob when the Commies took over, I suspect.

Yeah, those fuckers. They should sing for their supper for having the temerity to demand self-determination. Shitbags.

Brawndo:
Snip

China and Vietnam adopted capitalism on a large scale, as of Cuba really hasn't. While they are slowly adopting the system (most of the revenue of the nation comes from tourism on the beaches, which basically are special economic zones. Some amounts of capitalism are slowly coming to the inner nation, but it is a very slow process.

Also is the leadership of the nation. When we started trading with China and Vietnam, the original leaders were dead. Castro still has some power, and I doubt the U.S. would open trade with the leader that came the closest to causing the nukes to fly.

It is still stupid, and capitalism will come quicker to the nation if we open up trade.

Tyler Perry:

Dhael:

Cuba has done none of these things and has made no signs of attempting to bury the hatchet with the United States. Why pray tell would the US want to have anything to do with a Cuba that isn't willing to make any gesture of reconciliation. Because it looks good is not a valid reason for diplomatic contact.

Reconciliation for WHAT? What, exactly, did Cuba do to us that they need to make amends for?

The Cuban missile crisis. That is my best guess anyway.

Tyler Perry:
Reconciliation for WHAT? What, exactly, did Cuba do to us that they need to make amends for?

I'd be a little upset if someone went bragging he'd have his mate put nukes in his shed, and threaten that those could turn my backyard into a radioactive parking lot. That, and some espionage in the US.

But of course it's mostly in the rhetoric: if a country loudly proclaims to be the enemy, why argue? If Cuba didn't want that, Castro should've kept his big mouth shut.

Blablahb:

Tyler Perry:
Reconciliation for WHAT? What, exactly, did Cuba do to us that they need to make amends for?

I'd be a little upset if someone went bragging he'd have his mate put nukes in his shed, and threaten that those could turn my backyard into a radioactive parking lot. That, and some espionage in the US.

But of course it's mostly in the rhetoric: if a country loudly proclaims to be the enemy, why argue? If Cuba didn't want that, Castro should've kept his big mouth shut.

Please, USA have been spying on the whole world, same way that all governments are doing. It's ridicules to assume that just because we are allied they will not keep tabs on you.

Blablahb:

Tyler Perry:
Reconciliation for WHAT? What, exactly, did Cuba do to us that they need to make amends for?

I'd be a little upset if someone went bragging he'd have his mate put nukes in his shed, and threaten that those could turn my backyard into a radioactive parking lot. That, and some espionage in the US.

But of course it's mostly in the rhetoric: if a country loudly proclaims to be the enemy, why argue? If Cuba didn't want that, Castro should've kept his big mouth shut.

That was also FIFTY FUCKING YEARS AGO. As stated earlier, it seems Cuba is the only entity we still hold a grudge with over the Cold War. And it's strictly punitive ... it doesn't benefit the U.S. in any way, shape or form to continue to shun Cuba.

Blablahb:
That, and some espionage in the US.

So, when do we cut off diplomatic relationships with Israel?

Tyler Perry:
The Cuban-American contingent that hates Castro is small and is largely concentrated in Florida; however, they do hold enough sway in Florida to sway an election. My guess is that the powers that be in both parties fear that the Cuban-American bloc would swing heavily against the party deemed responsible for ending the embargo, and since Florida is such a vitally important swing state in presidential elections (and hey, two Senators can make an enormous difference), they are just leaving it alone.

That and Floridians already have a steady supply of Cuban sandwiches, beaches, and mojitos so they're really no need to life the embargo

>>
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I really do miss those sandwiches though

because the US cant stand how ridiculously bad ass fidel castro is, and so they just act like a spoiled child. US can bribe everybody it seems, everyone except castrp. You know weve attempted some ridiculous number of assassinations on the guy, up in the many hundreds I think

Blablahb:

Tyler Perry:
Reconciliation for WHAT? What, exactly, did Cuba do to us that they need to make amends for?

I'd be a little upset if someone went bragging he'd have his mate put nukes in his shed, and threaten that those could turn my backyard into a radioactive parking lot. That, and some espionage in the US.

But of course it's mostly in the rhetoric: if a country loudly proclaims to be the enemy, why argue? If Cuba didn't want that, Castro should've kept his big mouth shut.

also it seems you've forgotten that the us gov't has thoroughly earned every bit of fidel's contempt. The U.S failed to keep him out of power, but he hasnt forgotten how hard they tried

Tyler Perry:
Reconciliation for WHAT? What, exactly, did Cuba do to us that they need to make amends for?

"Stealing" all of that prime American owned real estate in the Caribbean.
Being communist.
Unleashing a wave of asylum seekers onto Florida that the US politically weren't allowed go deport.
...
Not sitting back and being the USA's little bitch like a lot of Fascist South America.

----------------------------

OT: In short, whoever did it would get raped at the ballot box unless Cuba is seen go have changed in some way. Maybe when Fidel dies.
If a hang over from the cold war was an embargo on China then starting trade with china would be massively opposed unless China changed it's image.

Stilt:

also it seems you've forgotten that the us gov't has thoroughly earned every bit of fidel's contempt. The U.S failed to keep him out of power, but he hasnt forgotten how hard they tried

HOW many failed assassination attempts on him has the US made now? Dude's got more lives than a cat born on Christmas.

Mostly because we tried to kill Castro... A lot...

I mean a lot.

arbane:

Stilt:

also it seems you've forgotten that the us gov't has thoroughly earned every bit of fidel's contempt. The U.S failed to keep him out of power, but he hasnt forgotten how hard they tried

HOW many failed assassination attempts on him has the US made now? Dude's got more lives than a cat born on Christmas.

The US has attempted to assassinate the guy Six Hundred And Thirty Eight Times

I'm not even sure what to think of that. On one hand Castro may be a Highlander, on the other hand the Pentagon may be the single most determined group of people on the planet.

Also there's the fact that Cuba is "Right on our doorstep" and people feared that a Communist invasion could use Cuba as a "Jumping off point"

KlLLUMINATI:

Just like Cheney wasn't the one in charge.

Who, yanno, isn't the leader anymore. His brother is.

Big difference though, because Raul has shown a dramatic change in Cuban government and has liberalized the economy of Cuba.

arbane:

Stilt:

also it seems you've forgotten that the us gov't has thoroughly earned every bit of fidel's contempt. The U.S failed to keep him out of power, but he hasnt forgotten how hard they tried

HOW many failed assassination attempts on him has the US made now? Dude's got more lives than a cat born on Christmas.

Castro says he has survived 638 attempts on his life, but it is doubtable if this is true because it came from Fidel himself. However, it is known the CIA has made a LOT of attempts on his life, even taking advise from Bugs Bunny by giving him EXPLODING CIGARS.

I don't remember China or Vietnam placing nuclear ICBMs 90 miles off our coast (I know that was Russia but Cuba is an easier target), I guess that kind of thing just sticks

Here's your reason: older anti-Castro Cuban voters in Florida.

The hawkish and generally more-conservative white-Cuban voting block has a massive grip on Floridian state politics and is a massive enough voting block to tip statewide elections in a very large swing state. As such, pretty much all US presidents end up taking an anti-Cuba stance to varying degrees.

Don't expect this to change any time soon.

Brawndo:
-

Maybe there's a lasting bitterness for when they helped to almost end the world as we know it.

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