Mexican immigration at a standstill

Historic wave of Mexican immigration at a standstill, report says - April 23, 2012, 4:39 p.m.

The number of Mexican migrants to the United States dropped significantly while the number of those returning home increased, bringing net migration from Mexico to a statistical standstill, according to a report published Monday.

The shift over the last several years marks a significant change after four decades of historic immigration from Mexico, according to the report by the Pew Hispanic Center.

"The largest wave of immigration in history from a single country to the United States has come to a standstill," the report says.

The downward trend in migration started about five years ago, according to the report.

During that time the number of illegal immigrants from Mexico residing in the U.S. fell sharply from 7 million to about 6.1 million. At the same time, the number of legal Mexican immigrants residing in the U.S. increased slightly from 5.6 million to 5.8 million. Those estimates are based on data from the U.S. Census Bureau.

The report attributes the changes to several factors, including the weakened economy, increased border enforcement, a rise in deportations, growing dangers at the border and a long-term decline in Mexican birth rates.
http://www.latimes.com/news/la-mem-immigration-standstill-20120423-m,0,235780.story

image

So, what do you think of this historical development?

Reminds me of that South Park episode. Huh. Well, I wonder how things will turn out. Corporations do employ sizeable numbers of illegals to save money on both pay and insurance, so it'll be interesting to see how the economy will react should the numbers of illegals actually decrease by a noticeable degree.

Maybe, and this is coming out of left field here, they finally got sick of being treated as less than human by the country that bills itself as the land of the free, and the land of opportunity. I know, it's a silly theory, but it's mine.

Skeleon:
Reminds me of that South Park episode.

"The Last of the Meheecans"? I wanted to embed a fragment from that episode but could not find anything on YouTube :/

Danyal:
"The Last of the Meheecans"? I wanted to embed a fragment from that episode but could not find anything on YouTube :/

Yup, that's the one.
Yeah, they're very diligent with the copyright issues with South Park. Apart from the official website it's really hard to find any of the newer video material (that stays up for longer than a few hours or days) and you obviously can't embed the official site.

When the economy grows again, so will the immigration. The US still uses the exploitive system that puts the blame with the immigrant instead of their employer. It's more than a little ironic that the rabbid xenophobic republicans who hate all immigrants, are the ones who've put laws in place to support unwanted illegals using taxpayers money, untill they are employed again, effectively ensuring that illegal immigrants hang around so they can be exploited better.

This effectively ferries money from the taxpayer to wealthy business owners who employ illegal immigrants, at the expense of both taxpayers and immigrants.

Only example of the 'reserve armee' that Marx theorised about that I'm aware of. I think a party is kind of screwed up when even Marx can argue a succesfull point against it.

Skeleon:
Reminds me of that South Park episode. Huh. Well, I wonder how things will turn out. Corporations do employ sizeable numbers of illegals to save money on both pay and insurance, so it'll be interesting to see how the economy will react should the numbers of illegals actually decrease by a noticeable degree.

I remember from listening to NPR, that it was harder for people in Poland to get visas here. So perhaps if we helped Polish people out, we could employ them like Western Europeans do.

This is probably not a good sign

Volf:
I remember from listening to NPR, that it was harder for people in Poland to get visas here. So perhaps if we helped Polish people out, we could employ them like Western Europeans do.

Well, but while costs of living and the like are still much lower in the Eastern EU countries than the Western ones, Polish people still get very good working conditions and due to the intra-EU trade and employment regulations they are employed as European citizens. In that sense, there is not the type of trickery going on like there is with illegal immigrants in the USA (at least not with Polish immigrants; maybe with extra-EU immigrants, though, that's quite probable, actually). So what I'm saying is that if the USA wanted Polish immigrants to work for them like they do within the EU, they still would have to pay insurance and proper wages, that's just how it works. Would that be so attractive an outlook for the corporations currently employing illegals? I doubt it.

Skeleon:

Volf:
I remember from listening to NPR, that it was harder for people in Poland to get visas here. So perhaps if we helped Polish people out, we could employ them like Western Europeans do.

Well, but while costs of living and the like are still much lower in the Eastern EU countries than the Western ones, Polish people still get very good working conditions and due to the intra-EU trade and employment regulations they are employed as European citizens. In that sense, there is not the type of trickery going on like there is with illegal immigrants in the USA (at least not with Polish immigrants; maybe with extra-EU immigrants, though, that's quite probable, actually). So what I'm saying is that if the USA wanted Polish immigrants to work for them like they do within the EU, they still would have to pay insurance and proper wages, that's just how it works. Would that be so attractive an outlook for the corporations currently employing illegals? I doubt it.

Perhaps, but I got the impression that Polish people were hell bent on making it easier for them to get visas.

"Damn Mexicans, going over there, leaving our jobs..."

Insofar as the shift in immigration patterns is a result of increased border security and deportations, it seems those policies are performing as intended. I'd hazard a guess that it has more to do with the weakened economy, though. It makes sense that the number of people illegally immigrating to the United States would decrease with stricter enforcement of immigration laws and increasing levels of violence along the border. However, those factors wouldn't seem to account for the increase in the number of illegal immigrants returning home. Even if the non-economic factors result in a long-term decrease in the rate of illegal immigration into the United States from Mexico, I would expect to see it rise again when (and to the extent) the United States' economy improves.

Skeleon:
Well, but while costs of living and the like are still much lower in the Eastern EU countries than the Western ones, Polish people still get very good working conditions and due to the intra-EU trade and employment regulations they are employed as European citizens.

Unfortunately that's not entirely true. There's quite some problems regarding underpaying, working conditions, housing and a few other things. There's dishonest temp agencies for instance who promise work but don't deliver, but then charge for costs of living, and quite outrageously much too, so some people lose more than they earn for work.

In addition they're often housed illegally, stuffing many into one house for maximum profit. Not very good living conditions. Additionally, stuffing a bunch of young men with no checks and balances into a house often leads to nuisance, like alcohol related problems, sounds nuisance and so on.

In turn it's caused some resentment among people, because the more people have such negative experiences or observe such nuisance, the more that they resent the massive (350.000 for my country alone) immigration of Polish people. To name one example, I nearly died when some Polish idiot had stopped his car on a motorway exit and was trying to make a turn and drive back against traffic. If I hadn't went offroad and barely managed to control my vehicle I would've plowed through the guy at 140 kp/h and not be here any longer. NOBODY from around here ever, ever does something that stupid like stopping on a motorway, let alone driving back against traffic.

And while I'm not really a 'they took our jobs' type of person, getting work in agriculture or domestic cleaning has become harder. Just about every single supermarket has multiple ads of eastern European women offering housecleaning work for € 5-10 an hour (wages for adults start at €8,76 minimum wage and € 15-25 is normal for housecleaning) An uncle of mine kind of botched his education, so he unded up in menial jobs. Among which a temp job in a fruit orchard, and he was the only Dutch person there, and basically couldn't talk to anyone because everybody there were Romanians or Polish. No matter whether or not farmers would be hiring as many people if they had to pay a fair wage, the image-forming takes place regardlessly. I certainly catch my uncle yapping on about eastern Europeans since then.

What direction that will take will depend on how much that immigration is and how much various eastern European groups integrate into society, but it's not a problem-free situation unfortunately.

Blablahb:
*snip*

You're probably right.
What I described was more the theory of what the intra-EU trade and job regulations are supposed to install. The reality is probably less rosy.

If this makes costs rise in the future I wonder if people will start to go easier on immigration. When the cost of not having them makes prices go up it would seem like the time to push for reform.

This isn't exactly news to me. I knew the conservatives were full of shit when they were claiming illegal immigrant criminal numbers were on a rapid rise. I'm not even surprised to hear about mass emigration, racism in the United States is becoming a serious problem again, and if i were someone with brown skin living in the south i think i'd rather take my chances with the Mexican crime rates over the racist cops in America any day.

Pyramid Head:
I'm not even surprised to hear about mass emigration, racism in the United States is becoming a serious problem again, and if i were someone with brown skin living in the south i think i'd rather take my chances with the Mexican crime rates over the racist cops in America any day.

This is news to me. I live in Tennessee, and I'm a Mexican American who is commonly mistaken for an Arab, yet I *never* catch shit from cops. I've actually talked my way out of a few tickets, as well, including once where I accidentally almost ran a cop off the road when we were merging onto the interstate.

Cops in the South aren't as racist as you think. Believe me when I say I'd rather be here than Mexico.

Jedoro:

Pyramid Head:
I'm not even surprised to hear about mass emigration, racism in the United States is becoming a serious problem again, and if i were someone with brown skin living in the south i think i'd rather take my chances with the Mexican crime rates over the racist cops in America any day.

This is news to me. I live in Tennessee, and I'm a Mexican American who is commonly mistaken for an Arab, yet I *never* catch shit from cops. I've actually talked my way out of a few tickets, as well, including once where I accidentally almost ran a cop off the road when we were merging onto the interstate.

Cops in the South aren't as racist as you think. Believe me when I say I'd rather be here than Mexico.

The problem is worse than some places than others, the most obvious one being the racist hysteria in Arizona, but i've also heard about some serious problems from cops in my home state of Missouri and have met a couple of cops who would fit right into a KKK meeting. I may state things a little more harsh than what reality might suggest, but i stand by my stance that the American criminal justice system is a fucking mess due to not just racist enforcers but racist policies and a general obsession with punishment over rehabilitation. But... my disgust is pretty far reaching and maybe an unfair bias was formed due to the Arizona policies, i'll consider more careful language in the future.

people tend to forget that "developed countries" NEED immigrants.
i hear that immigrants "steal our jobs"... if your life ambition is to sweep streets - well.... you really do have a problem then. but otherwise - be happy for your cheap food.

i mean, that is kinda to be expected.... they earn money, and go back to live in their own country where living costs are lower. here they are low class, back in their country they might even count as high-end middle class.

but yeah, it wont change a thing. immigrants will leave, price will become higher, someone else is going to be blamed. because its never your own fault, and dont ya forget it!
besides, isnt that something that happened in uk? i remember cries of "come back please!" a few years ago......

Pyramid Head:

Jedoro:

Pyramid Head:
I'm not even surprised to hear about mass emigration, racism in the United States is becoming a serious problem again, and if i were someone with brown skin living in the south i think i'd rather take my chances with the Mexican crime rates over the racist cops in America any day.

This is news to me. I live in Tennessee, and I'm a Mexican American who is commonly mistaken for an Arab, yet I *never* catch shit from cops. I've actually talked my way out of a few tickets, as well, including once where I accidentally almost ran a cop off the road when we were merging onto the interstate.

Cops in the South aren't as racist as you think. Believe me when I say I'd rather be here than Mexico.

The problem is worse than some places than others, the most obvious one being the racist hysteria in Arizona, but i've also heard about some serious problems from cops in my home state of Missouri and have met a couple of cops who would fit right into a KKK meeting. I may state things a little more harsh than what reality might suggest, but i stand by my stance that the American criminal justice system is a fucking mess due to not just racist enforcers but racist policies and a general obsession with punishment over rehabilitation. But... my disgust is pretty far reaching and maybe an unfair bias was formed due to the Arizona policies, i'll consider more careful language in the future.

Fair enough, but as a note, Arizona's considered to be in the West or Mid-West more than the South.

neonit:
people tend to forget that "developed countries" NEED immigrants.
i hear that immigrants "steal our jobs"... if your life ambition is to sweep streets - well.... you really do have a problem then. but otherwise - be happy for your cheap food.

i mean, that is kinda to be expected.... they earn money, and go back to live in their own country where living costs are lower. here they are low class, back in their country they might even count as high-end middle class.

but yeah, it wont change a thing. immigrants will leave, price will become higher, someone else is going to be blamed. because its never your own fault, and dont ya forget it!
besides, isnt that something that happened in uk? i remember cries of "come back please!" a few years ago......

Note that the general issue in the US is not with immigration but illegal immigration. There are approximately one million immigrants becoming citizens of the US each year and approximately one and a half million entering the country illegally. There are also approximately 65,000 temporary work visas issued each year as well as up to a couple hundred thousand temporary work permits for seasonal and unskilled labour. A significant number of illegal immigrants actually come here legally on work visas and then stay after their visas have lapsed.

It is a rather uncommon thing for people in the US to complain about immigrants in general except perhaps to complain that they don't speak english very well. A rather significant portion of the hispanic community here is actually rather conservative and support laws against illegal immigrants. Bashing on immigrants in general is a very bad idea for any politician here including republicans. Illegal immigrants are generally fair game but in some places like where I live its a rather tense issue and there have been many changes in law and policy to protect and occasionally even enable illegal immigrants. It has become "politically incorrect" to refer to illegal immigrants as such. The standard official parlance is now "undocumented workers".

And the change in immigration trends is old news. Since the real estate bubble burst it has been in the news here. The first stories were regarding money flow from the US to Mexico being in decline along with anecdotes from interviewers saying that immigrants here in the US who had been sending money to Mexico were now calling up their families asking them to send money to them in the US. The typical answer was apparently "no" leaving people facing the necessity of moving back to Mexico since they could not find work here. There has also been greater border control since 9/11. With a stronger presence of law enforcement in major border cities people were resorting to crossing in the desert well away from populous areas which led to several immigrants dying in the attempt. I can't find the story since it was some time ago now but one state (New Mexico I believe) was sued over immigrants dying in the desert which led to laws requiring outposts with emergency water and food being placed strategically in the desert near the border.

 

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked