Please don't use that word. If you are referring to the Jewish God, that's not the correct name and its considered disrespectful to use his name, even if you got it right. Please use the preferred conversational name, Hashem.
If you are referring to the Christian god, that's not what they call him (with the exception of one christian sect). Please just stick to "christian god" if you want to be specific about what god you are referring to.
Also this is known to be a BAD translitteration of a translitteration of a deliberate spelling error and using it to sound informed doesn't actually have that end effect.
Thanks for your consideration
...It's disrespectful to use the name of a deity. Well colour me stunned. That wont stop me using it. Freedom of speech and what not and it does make it clear which deity out of the many thousands that humanity has worshipped that I am on about.
The Jewish deity is the Christian one, and the Islamic one. I did mispell it though. It's Yahweh or that's as close as we have it. If you feel it is incorrect, please show your work. Otherwise I will continue to use Yahweh to refer to the deity of the Abrahamic faiths.
Frokane: From what my christian friends and aquantinces have told me is that if you dont accept jesus christ as your saviour before you die you wont go to heaven, so that which would mean you go to hell.
but then there are those who say as long as you are generally a good person you will go to heaven.
what is the truth?
I'm afraid the "truth" is yours to figure out. There are a lot of ways to approach religion in general, and especially Christianity. I'm already seeing a lot of religious debates winding up in those other posts, so I'll just leave it at this:
I am a Christian too, and I'm sort of with your friends on that. But the best way to go about it, if you really are curious, is just get to know things. Before I was baptized when I was about 13, I went through a program called "confirmation." I had a mentor and we studied faith one-on-one, preparing me to take on the responsibilities of being a baptized Christian. It was pretty cool. Also, myself and the other confirmands doing the program at the same time went on a few trips to visit other churches. We went to a Catholic Mass at a huge basilica in St. Louis, and we went to a Jewish synagogue where they gave us a tour of the place, introduced us to their Rabbi (who actually was a lady--it was a contemporary synagogue), and let us attend one of their services. It was a lot of fun, and a great experience (Have you ever tried to sing in Hebrew? You should sometime). And I'm pretty sure we visited some other places, but those are the main ones I remember.
The point of those trips were to broaden our view of the world, so that we know ours aren't the only beliefs and that those who have other beliefs aren't really that different from us. I think you should do the same thing. You're probably busy with school right now, but whenever you get the chance just do some research on other religions. Go to some Bible studies with your friends and get to know them better, and get to know people of other faiths too when you get the chance. Faith is something very personal, and there isn't one path or denomination that is totally "right" for everyone. And whatever you do, don't let anyone convince you otherwise.
Rkiver: ...It's disrespectful to use the name of a deity. Well colour me stunned. That wont stop me using it. Freedom of speech and what not and it does make it clear which deity out of the many thousands that humanity has worshipped that I am on about.
The Jewish deity is the Christian one, and the Islamic one. I did mispell it though. It's Yahweh or that's as close as we have it. If you feel it is incorrect, please show your work. Otherwise I will continue to use Yahweh to refer to the deity of the Abrahamic faiths.
More importantly, what exactly does "incorrect" even mean in this context? It's a widely accepted way of writing the Christian god's supposed name, even if it may be based on a wrongful transcription of an original text or whatever. It's not as if that was rare to happen with texts that are translated, copied, edited and carried over for thousands of years. In fact, many scholars are of the opinion that the very virgin birth of Jesus is based on a mistranslation, which is one of the main tenets of most Christian groups. Honestly, considering I view religion as highly malleable anyway (especially in light of how vastly different interpretations of the same religion can get), how to or not to write the name is really the least of our problems when dealing with interpretational issues.
Why should he take you into his Kingdom if you're too proud to take his hand?
Oh, stop it. That's nonsense and you know it. It has nothing to do with pride whether I believe in that god or not. If I believed and then decided not to worship, you might have a point, but that isn't the case. You're coming dangerously close to the "everybody knows the Christian god is the real god"-nonsense that pretty much the worst among apologists like to throw out there.
If God let sinners into heaven it wouldnt be a place without sin anymore now would it? It would be just like everywhere else.
You have a very roundabout way of looking at things, like you are trying to blame God for expecting something from you.
I'd say blaming a being who could have created any universe he wanted, and then changed it anyway he wanted, for making things really bloody difficlut and downright unfair, is a reasonable stance. If he expects something of us why can't we expect something of him?
"If he expects something of us why can't we expect something of him?"
You mean besides existence?
No offence, but that's not a very good counter. He chooses what he expects from us (no sin, be religious etc.), so why shouldn't we choose what we expect from him (making the world better). It's like saying, "Well Stalin massively improved the Russian economy so we shouldn't expect anything else of him, even though he had the power not to be a genocidal Tyrant." (See how I cunningly avoided Godwin's Law)
PrinceOfShapeir: Where does the Bible state that jealousy is a sin?
"Though shall not covet". Pretty much this one.
Yeah the word jealous in the phrase "jealous God" does not have the same meaning as the word "covet". This is why context is important. Believers and non-believers alike come up with mistaken viewpoints because they looked at things with no consideration for context.
DJjaffacake: I'd say blaming a being who could have created any universe he wanted, and then changed it anyway he wanted, for making things really bloody difficlut and downright unfair, is a reasonable stance. If he expects something of us why can't we expect something of him?
"If he expects something of us why can't we expect something of him?"
You mean besides existence?
No offence, but that's not a very good counter. He chooses what he expects from us (no sin, be religious etc.), so why shouldn't we choose what we expect from him (making the world better). It's like saying, "Well Stalin massively improved the Russian economy so we shouldn't expect anything else of him, even though he had the power not to be a genocidal Tyrant." (See how I cunningly avoided Godwin's Law)
. Mexico is much more awesome- "Porfirio Díaz massively improved the Mexican economy so we shouldn't expect anything else of him, even though he had the power not to be an autocratic bastard".
PrinceOfShapeir: Where does the Bible state that jealousy is a sin?
"Though shall not covet". Pretty much this one.
Yeah the word jealous in the phrase "jealous God" does not have the same meaning as the word "covet". This is why context is important. Believers and non-believers alike come up with mistaken viewpoints because they looked at things with no consideration for context.
. Wait, what? Jealousy is coveting something, isn't it? What did I do wrong here?
DJjaffacake: I'd say blaming a being who could have created any universe he wanted, and then changed it anyway he wanted, for making things really bloody difficlut and downright unfair, is a reasonable stance. If he expects something of us why can't we expect something of him?
"If he expects something of us why can't we expect something of him?"
You mean besides existence?
No offence, but that's not a very good counter. He chooses what he expects from us (no sin, be religious etc.), so why shouldn't we choose what we expect from him (making the world better). It's like saying, "Well Stalin massively improved the Russian economy so we shouldn't expect anything else of him, even though he had the power not to be a genocidal Tyrant." (See how I cunningly avoided Godwin's Law)
Religious? God created humans, humans created religion. I do not see anything in the Bible that would indicate God cares what religion you are. If you are a buddhist for example you can still (in theory) ask for and receive salvation from Jesus. Im not sure if that makes you a good Buddhist but yeah technically you do not have to be religious at all to ask for and receive salvation.
I do like how you keep judging God as if God were human and yet you seem unaware of the problem with doing so.
Seekster: You have a very roundabout way of looking at things, like you are trying to blame God for expecting something from you.
Blaming an all-powerful, omniscient, supposedly benevolent god for setting the rules up so that some people are guaranteed to fail, and therefore guaranteed to be tortured for all eternity, is hardly unreasonable. In fact, the unreasonable thing would be to claim that the person who set up the rules this way and then made it so that his existence was not clear at all holds no responsibility when people do the rational thing and refuse to believe in his existence after being given absolutely no evidence for it. At the very least, you can blame him for being horribly unfair to the people living outside of the middle east between about 0 AD and around 1600 AD.
PrinceOfShapeir: I do love how people are like 'But it's so hard, it's unfair!'
What's hard about it? There is no struggle you have to face, no monster you have to slay, no temple you have to build, no labor you have to undergo whatsoever. The only effort you have whatsoever is in swallowing your pride and realizing that you need salvation. Not an easy task by any stretch of the imagination, but hardly an insurmountable one. And if it is insurmountable, why would God want you in his Kingdom? He's built the bridges, laid the road, opened the gates, and all he's asking you to do is take his hand.
But you don't know that that hand exists in the first place.
Fixed that one for you. There is a very real struggle that people need to go through in order to get into heaven. It is the struggle of accepting something on faith, of suppressing their urge to scream, "Hang on, that's bullshit and chips!". And all the while, god knows that there will be people who never "realize" that he exists, and never take the outreached hand (because they don't think it's there, and believing things without evidence violates their personal moral code in a fundamental way), and does nothing about it.
Now, there's a wholly different story in the case of people who didn't believe because they honestly believed in something else. There's nothing really in the Bible that supports my belief here - I'm sure I could find a few passages here and there that could be interpreted to suggest it, but hardly anything concrete, but from studying the character of Jesus Christ, I don't think He would condemn someone for an honest mistake. I think at the end of everyone's life, Jesus reveals himself to them and asks them to accept salvation.
Honestly, anyone who says no at that point deserves what they get.
While I agree with that last sentence, it's worth pointing out that nothing in the bible or church doctrine implies this, and many parts seem to imply quite clearly exactly the opposite. I do believe there are quite a few passages where it is directly said that those who are not saved before they die are destined for hell. Hell, even this idea that Jesus is a kind, nice, friendly person is based entirely on a very selective, "jesus-glasses" reading of the new testament. He's not. He's kind of a dick, if you weren't paying attention.
Seekster: If God let sinners into heaven it wouldnt be a place without sin anymore now would it? It would be just like everywhere else.
I find it interesting that you say this, and then claim that salvation is based on faith. You do realize that, according to your doctrine, Hitler could have recanted before dying and gotten into heaven? This idea of faith being the sole determining factor is absolutely disgusting from a moral standpoint, and so is the entire idea of selective separation for hell and heaven, based on ANY criteria. The idea that finite actions with finite consequences in our finite lives could have infinite consequences, especially consequences such as eternal bliss or eternal torture, is absolutely immoral.
Yeah the word jealous in the phrase "jealous God" does not have the same meaning as the word "covet". This is why context is important. Believers and non-believers alike come up with mistaken viewpoints because they looked at things with no consideration for context.
. Wait, what? Jealousy is coveting something, isn't it? What did I do wrong here?
"If he expects something of us why can't we expect something of him?"
You mean besides existence?
No offence, but that's not a very good counter. He chooses what he expects from us (no sin, be religious etc.), so why shouldn't we choose what we expect from him (making the world better). It's like saying, "Well Stalin massively improved the Russian economy so we shouldn't expect anything else of him, even though he had the power not to be a genocidal Tyrant." (See how I cunningly avoided Godwin's Law)
Religious? God created humans, humans created religion. I do not see anything in the Bible that would indicate God cares what religion you are. If you are a buddhist for example you can still (in theory) ask for and receive salvation from Jesus. Im not sure if that makes you a good Buddhist but yeah technically you do not have to be religious at all to ask for and receive salvation.
I do like how you keep judging God as if God were human and yet you seem unaware of the problem with doing so.
Fair enough, religion was a bad choice of word, but I didn't want to use faith because I don't see it as the same as what I meant by religion. I believe I am correct in saying that on this very thread you said that one had to accept salvation to go to heaven, that is what I meant. As for judging god as if he were human, well how else, didn't he create humans in his own image (or is that just a thing people say). I don't think expecting him to bother to help us is treating him as though he is a human either, just as a sentient being, which is what he is supposed to be.
Religious? God created humans, humans created religion. I do not see anything in the Bible that would indicate God cares what religion you are. If you are a buddhist for example you can still (in theory) ask for and receive salvation from Jesus. Im not sure if that makes you a good Buddhist but yeah technically you do not have to be religious at all to ask for and receive salvation.
I do like how you keep judging God as if God were human and yet you seem unaware of the problem with doing so.
. Question here is- Why do I need salvation? Why do I need to acknowledge he exists even if he does? Christians have this ingrained in their religion of you being born wrong and having your life to repent. So do Buddhists (As far as I know only some). Muslims are told to submit.
Can I live in a life with no religion and strive to discover the secrets that make our work tick instead of submitting to a god or asking him for forgiveness or acting to the accords of a creed so I would stop torturing my soul?
Katatori-kun: This is a doctrinally very odd thing to say... it sounds to me more like a justification for keeping out the riff-raff than anything else.
According to most Christian dogma I am aware of, all people are sinners. Salvation does not cause people to cease to sin, it causes them to no longer suffer the penalties of sin. Presumably once one enters the afterlife one is no longer capable of sinning (as otherwise heaven wouldn't be a permanent destination, but would be a temporary victory home as long as one could keep one's spiritual nose clean). So heaven would not become a place without sin even if sinners were allowed in.
It should be noted that the Bible is oddly silent on what Heaven or Hell is. It simply states that they exist.
. Which one? There's little talk about this in the Hebrew Bible. It gets mentioned once they get back from Babylon, but we know why. You can actually see the EVOLUTION of the Jewish religion throughout the progress of the holy books, which makes me laugh out loud at the irony.
Frokane: From what my christian friends and aquantinces have told me is that if you dont accept jesus christ as your saviour before you die you wont go to heaven, so that which would mean you go to hell.
but then there are those who say as long as you are generally a good person you will go to heaven.
what is the truth?
What if there isn't even a hell? Do you really want to live your life following some rules that may or may not grand you passage to heaven.
Or will you just try and live like a normal human being and find out in the end.
DJjaffacake: No offence, but that's not a very good counter. He chooses what he expects from us (no sin, be religious etc.), so why shouldn't we choose what we expect from him (making the world better). It's like saying, "Well Stalin massively improved the Russian economy so we shouldn't expect anything else of him, even though he had the power not to be a genocidal Tyrant." (See how I cunningly avoided Godwin's Law)
Religious? God created humans, humans created religion. I do not see anything in the Bible that would indicate God cares what religion you are. If you are a buddhist for example you can still (in theory) ask for and receive salvation from Jesus. Im not sure if that makes you a good Buddhist but yeah technically you do not have to be religious at all to ask for and receive salvation.
I do like how you keep judging God as if God were human and yet you seem unaware of the problem with doing so.
Fair enough, religion was a bad choice of word, but I didn't want to use faith because I don't see it as the same as what I meant by religion. I believe I am correct in saying that on this very thread you said that one had to accept salvation to go to heaven, that is what I meant. As for judging god as if he were human, well how else, didn't he create humans in his own image (or is that just a thing people say). I don't think expecting him to bother to help us is treating him as though he is a human either, just as a sentient being, which is what he is supposed to be.
This is the thing, people are acting like obtaining salvation is hard. Maybe in our self-centered society it is hard for some people to admit that they need forgiveness for their actions. However I think it was a LOT harder for Jesus to secure salvation for us than it is for us to ask for it from Him.
Yes all we know is to judge based on human values...however I think you just basically admitted that its flawed to judge God as if God were a human and subject to human social values however you do it because thats the only way to you as a human (and me for that matter) have to judge others. I think that may speak somewhat to the meaning of the verse "Do not put the Lord your God to the test". The subtext being that no human would even know how to go about testing God.
Religious? God created humans, humans created religion. I do not see anything in the Bible that would indicate God cares what religion you are. If you are a buddhist for example you can still (in theory) ask for and receive salvation from Jesus. Im not sure if that makes you a good Buddhist but yeah technically you do not have to be religious at all to ask for and receive salvation.
I do like how you keep judging God as if God were human and yet you seem unaware of the problem with doing so.
. Question here is- Why do I need salvation? Why do I need to acknowledge he exists even if he does? Christians have this ingrained in their religion of you being born wrong and having your life to repent. So do Buddhists (As far as I know only some). Muslims are told to submit.
Can I live in a life with no religion and strive to discover the secrets that make our work tick instead of submitting to a god or asking him for forgiveness or acting to the accords of a creed so I would stop torturing my soul?
Those are questions you need to ask yourself, I can't answer them for you.
Your faith, if you have any, is between you and God. The only knowledge I can offer is based on the Bible.
I'd like to read the bible and see where it actually says that anyone goes to hell or if hell even exsits. Hell is generally misunderstood in the bible for in fact its not even in the orginal scripts. Why would God make a place for people who disobey him to burn forever there is no reasoning about that. It makes God sound like a vengful jerk. However the bible does talk about a secound death in which you die and nothing happens you simply dont exsist anymore that is what is generally confused as hell.
Endersgate1321: I'd like to read the bible and see where it actually says that anyone goes to hell or if hell even exsits. Hell is generally misunderstood in the bible for in fact its not even in the orginal scripts. Why would God make a place for people who disobey him to burn forever there is no reasoning about that. It makes God sound like a vengful jerk. However the bible does talk about a secound death in which you die and nothing happens you simply dont exsist anymore that is what is generally confused as hell.
. It's because god the pope wants you to be an obedient little serf and stick to your patch of land and pay your exorbitant taxes to your landlord. And also buy paper slips from the pope saying the your sins are forgiven.
Religious? God created humans, humans created religion. I do not see anything in the Bible that would indicate God cares what religion you are. If you are a buddhist for example you can still (in theory) ask for and receive salvation from Jesus. Im not sure if that makes you a good Buddhist but yeah technically you do not have to be religious at all to ask for and receive salvation.
I do like how you keep judging God as if God were human and yet you seem unaware of the problem with doing so.
Fair enough, religion was a bad choice of word, but I didn't want to use faith because I don't see it as the same as what I meant by religion. I believe I am correct in saying that on this very thread you said that one had to accept salvation to go to heaven, that is what I meant. As for judging god as if he were human, well how else, didn't he create humans in his own image (or is that just a thing people say). I don't think expecting him to bother to help us is treating him as though he is a human either, just as a sentient being, which is what he is supposed to be.
This is the thing, people are acting like obtaining salvation is hard. Maybe in our self-centered society it is hard for some people to admit that they need forgiveness for their actions. However I think it was a LOT harder for Jesus to secure salvation for us than it is for us to ask for it from Him.
Yes all we know is to judge based on human values...however I think you just basically admitted that its flawed to judge God as if God were a human and subject to human social values however you do it because thats the only way to you as a human (and me for that matter) have to judge others. I think that may speak somewhat to the meaning of the verse "Do not put the Lord your God to the test". The subtext being that no human would even know how to go about testing God.
I'm not applying social values to god, I'm applying basic moral/ethical values. If one can create a perfect universe with little or no effort, there is no excuse not to do that. I don't see why I can't expect that. As for obtaining forgiveness, it depends on the action. Some would see things that the bible says are wrong as fine, like homosexuality. I can't imagine it would be easy for a gay person to 'admit' they need forgiveness, just for being born the way, according to that same belief system, that god created them. Also, many people do seek forgiveness if they do things they consider to be wrong, but often from the victim.
Those are questions you need to ask yourself, I can't answer them for you.
Your faith, if you have any, is between you and God. The only knowledge I can offer is based on the Bible.
. I refuse to acknowledge the validity of the bible as the only word of god as I do not accept the fact that he would not speak to me or show himself to me in any form I would not question.
DJjaffacake: Fair enough, religion was a bad choice of word, but I didn't want to use faith because I don't see it as the same as what I meant by religion. I believe I am correct in saying that on this very thread you said that one had to accept salvation to go to heaven, that is what I meant. As for judging god as if he were human, well how else, didn't he create humans in his own image (or is that just a thing people say). I don't think expecting him to bother to help us is treating him as though he is a human either, just as a sentient being, which is what he is supposed to be.
This is the thing, people are acting like obtaining salvation is hard. Maybe in our self-centered society it is hard for some people to admit that they need forgiveness for their actions. However I think it was a LOT harder for Jesus to secure salvation for us than it is for us to ask for it from Him.
Yes all we know is to judge based on human values...however I think you just basically admitted that its flawed to judge God as if God were a human and subject to human social values however you do it because thats the only way to you as a human (and me for that matter) have to judge others. I think that may speak somewhat to the meaning of the verse "Do not put the Lord your God to the test". The subtext being that no human would even know how to go about testing God.
I'm not applying social values to god, I'm applying basic moral/ethical values. If one can create a perfect universe with little or no effort, there is no excuse not to do that. I don't see why I can't expect that. As for obtaining forgiveness, it depends on the action. Some would see things that the bible says are wrong as fine, like homosexuality. I can't imagine it would be easy for a gay person to 'admit' they need forgiveness, just for being born the way, according to that same belief system, that god created them. Also, many people do seek forgiveness if they do things they consider to be wrong, but often from the victim.
I think its a point in God's favor that God does not conform to human standards of morality...think about that for a moment.
According to the Bible it is sinful to have sex with someone of the same sex, it doesnt say anything about being attracted to members of the same-sex, thats just the way God made you. In short, simply being a homosexual is not a sin based on any reading of the Bible if you ask me.
Those are questions you need to ask yourself, I can't answer them for you.
Your faith, if you have any, is between you and God. The only knowledge I can offer is based on the Bible.
. I refuse to acknowledge the validity of the bible as the only word of god as I do not accept the fact that he would not speak to me or show himself to me in any form I would not question.
If you don't want to then don't, I don't have the compassion required to care what you believe in if you decide that God has to reveal Himself to you in a way that meets your standards (as opposed to ways that you choose not to recognize). Were I a better Christian I might feel differently.
If you don't want to then don't, I don't have the compassion required to care what you believe in if you decide that God has to reveal Himself to you in a way that meets your standards (as opposed to ways that you choose not to recognize). Were I a better Christian I might feel differently.
. We work under the assumption God Created me. Did he create me in a way that I would not believe in him? Why did he do that? Don't tell me he gives us free will. You have the full knowledge that when he wants to he can take that free will away from us for his own needs like what he did with the Pharoh of Egypt and the ten plagues.
This is the thing, people are acting like obtaining salvation is hard. Maybe in our self-centered society it is hard for some people to admit that they need forgiveness for their actions. However I think it was a LOT harder for Jesus to secure salvation for us than it is for us to ask for it from Him.
Yes all we know is to judge based on human values...however I think you just basically admitted that its flawed to judge God as if God were a human and subject to human social values however you do it because thats the only way to you as a human (and me for that matter) have to judge others. I think that may speak somewhat to the meaning of the verse "Do not put the Lord your God to the test". The subtext being that no human would even know how to go about testing God.
I'm not applying social values to god, I'm applying basic moral/ethical values. If one can create a perfect universe with little or no effort, there is no excuse not to do that. I don't see why I can't expect that. As for obtaining forgiveness, it depends on the action. Some would see things that the bible says are wrong as fine, like homosexuality. I can't imagine it would be easy for a gay person to 'admit' they need forgiveness, just for being born the way, according to that same belief system, that god created them. Also, many people do seek forgiveness if they do things they consider to be wrong, but often from the victim.
I think its a point in God's favor that God does not conform to human standards of morality...think about that for a moment.
According to the Bible it is sinful to have sex with someone of the same sex, it doesnt say anything about being attracted to members of the same-sex, thats just the way God made you. In short, simply being a homosexual is not a sin based on any reading of the Bible if you ask me.
I had a think, and it definitely isn't, those are the principles on which people base their lives. If I think killing people is wrong, and a big floaty man tells me it isn't, then I'll tell him to fuck off and consider him a massive dick.
As for the gay thing, creating people who are gay, and telling them it is fine to have those feelings, but then condemning them if they should, shock horror, act on those feelings, is cruel and unnecessary, and an omniscient being should know better.
Seekster: According to the Bible it is sinful to have sex with someone of the same sex, it doesnt say anything about being attracted to members of the same-sex, thats just the way God made you. In short, simply being a homosexual is not a sin based on any reading of the Bible if you ask me.
For he who has looked upon a woman in lust has already committed adultery in their heart.
I think its a point in God's favor that God does not conform to human standards of morality...think about that for a moment.
According to the Bible it is sinful to have sex with someone of the same sex, it doesnt say anything about being attracted to members of the same-sex, thats just the way God made you. In short, simply being a homosexual is not a sin based on any reading of the Bible if you ask me.
. This, my friend, is a cop-out. You cannot give someone the tendency to be gay and then disallow him sodomy. Sodomy is one of the ways a gay couple may show their affection and closeness to each other the same way straight sex is for a female and a male, unless they're swingers or are just hooking up for the night, or one of them is a prostitute, or.... you know sex can be a very broad term, do you?
Seekster: According to the Bible it is sinful to have sex with someone of the same sex, it doesnt say anything about being attracted to members of the same-sex, thats just the way God made you. In short, simply being a homosexual is not a sin based on any reading of the Bible if you ask me.
For he who has looked upon a woman in lust has already committed adultery in their heart.
Yeeeep, Coveting thy wife or thy brother is a sin. Good job there, friend.
Seekster: If you are a buddhist for example you can still (in theory) ask for and receive salvation from Jesus. Im not sure if that makes you a good Buddhist but yeah technically you do not have to be religious at all to ask for and receive salvation.
Woah! Hang on a second here! This doesn't match up to Buddhist teachings that the only one to ever achieve enlightenment was Siddharta Gatuma (Buddha). Accepting salvation from Christ would be akin to accepting that Christ also achieved enlightenment.
Katatori-kun: This is a doctrinally very odd thing to say... it sounds to me more like a justification for keeping out the riff-raff than anything else.
According to most Christian dogma I am aware of, all people are sinners. Salvation does not cause people to cease to sin, it causes them to no longer suffer the penalties of sin. Presumably once one enters the afterlife one is no longer capable of sinning (as otherwise heaven wouldn't be a permanent destination, but would be a temporary victory home as long as one could keep one's spiritual nose clean). So heaven would not become a place without sin even if sinners were allowed in.
It should be noted that the Bible is oddly silent on what Heaven or Hell is. It simply states that they exist.
. Which one? There's little talk about this in the Hebrew Bible. It gets mentioned once they get back from Babylon, but we know why. You can actually see the EVOLUTION of the Jewish religion throughout the progress of the holy books, which makes me laugh out loud at the irony.
I must have missed these passages. Would you mind directing me to them?
Why the hell would anyone give you an unlimited reward or punishment for limited actions? Especially when those actions are suppose to be based primarily on your ability to believe in things there are no evidence for. And what are you suppose to do in heaven for an eternity anyway? Worship God all day everyday? Think about all the people you knew who didn't go to heaven but will be punished in hell forever? Or perhaps God will brainwash you so you don't have to think about those things? Maybe that's how he also will keep you from going completely insane from utter boredom when you realize how pointless everything in the end becomes when you can do anything expect die.
There is no good reason to believe in heaven, hell or God.
Honestly, anyone who says no at that point deserves what they get.
Anyone who tortures people who dont kneel before him in terror or adoration isnt someone i want to spend time with. I dont need salvation. Unless you mean from the "original sin". Apparently i owe jesus something for taking the beating for me. Maybe i do. But if anything it should unite us in our dislike of god.
Lets review. A person has a son. The son disobays the father. And the father throws him out of the house. The son then has children. At this point the father comes back into the grandsons life and says "I will thrash you for what your father did. Your suffering will be eternal and you shall BEG for death. However i feel merciful. Instead i will beat my OTHER son for you. I shall beat him rather than you. And then you shall love me. For i have hurt another rather than hurting you for the sins of your father. The blood debt SHALL BE PAYED by someone."
The other son may be a swell guy but the father is an asshole. An abusive asshole. He would be arrested, charged for child abuse and hated. Because he failed to show such simple forgiveness and instead demanded punishment. Punishment and suffering in currency. Like Xoactle the bloody handed myan god of murder. At least when Xoactle ate your soul it was quick. God has infinite torture in mind for you should you not KNEEEL before him. A little worse than Xoactle though. I shall not love such a monster. Never.
Love me or ill beat you doesnt make me want to love someone. Not at all. I will not be bowed by threat of pain. Even if the love is real and the reward great the idea of being given under duress is despicable and brutal.
If you don't want to then don't, I don't have the compassion required to care what you believe in if you decide that God has to reveal Himself to you in a way that meets your standards (as opposed to ways that you choose not to recognize). Were I a better Christian I might feel differently.
. We work under the assumption God Created me. Did he create me in a way that I would not believe in him? Why did he do that? Don't tell me he gives us free will. You have the full knowledge that when he wants to he can take that free will away from us for his own needs like what he did with the Pharoh of Egypt and the ten plagues.
God created you with the freedom to decide for yourself. I'm sorry if you do not like that answer but it is the correct answer.
DJjaffacake: I had a think, and it definitely isn't, those are the principles on which people base their lives. If I think killing people is wrong, and a big floaty man tells me it isn't, then I'll tell him to fuck off and consider him a massive dick.
As for the gay thing, creating people who are gay, and telling them it is fine to have those feelings, but then condemning them if they should, shock horror, act on those feelings, is cruel and unnecessary, and an omniscient being should know better.
Well it is wrong for you to kill.
Yeah God forbid people be able to control their urges...your view strikes me as being selfish, everything is about what can God do for you.
I think its a point in God's favor that God does not conform to human standards of morality...think about that for a moment.
According to the Bible it is sinful to have sex with someone of the same sex, it doesnt say anything about being attracted to members of the same-sex, thats just the way God made you. In short, simply being a homosexual is not a sin based on any reading of the Bible if you ask me.
. This, my friend, is a cop-out. You cannot give someone the tendency to be gay and then disallow him sodomy. Sodomy is one of the ways a gay couple may show their affection and closeness to each other the same way straight sex is for a female and a male, unless they're swingers or are just hooking up for the night, or one of them is a prostitute, or.... you know sex can be a very broad term, do you?
You can give someone free will and then make it wrong for them to act in certain ways based on that yes. Its not a cop-out in any way.
If a homosexual person has a partner (whether or not they are in a legal marriage or not) and they look upon someone else with lust then yes they are comitting adultery in their heart. Same rules that apply to heterosexuals apply to homosexuals and I do do not see why they would not.
Also what Stag once again fails to provide the proper context...in this case the previous verse:
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery : 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. "
Matthew 5:27-28
As you can see the context is adultery. Of course in the context of a homosexual relationship this does lead to an interesting question. If adultery requires that one of the parties involved be married and if marriage as far as God is concerned is the union of man and woman, would it then be possible then for two unmarried homosexual partners to actually commit the sin of adultery? I mean its possible for them to cheat but would that constitute the sin of adultery?
Seekster: If you are a buddhist for example you can still (in theory) ask for and receive salvation from Jesus. Im not sure if that makes you a good Buddhist but yeah technically you do not have to be religious at all to ask for and receive salvation.
Woah! Hang on a second here! This doesn't match up to Buddhist teachings that the only one to ever achieve enlightenment was Siddharta Gatuma (Buddha). Accepting salvation from Christ would be akin to accepting that Christ also achieved enlightenment.
I must have missed these passages. Would you mind directing me to them?
. Not evolution per se, but it's god somehow changing his mind how he wants people to worship him. The major one is the centralization of the practice of the religion. Before the conquest of Jerusalem by David and then the building of the Temple in the city, worshiping god was done in platforms throughout the lands where the Levis would sacrifice an offering, chant a few things and then eat the meat together with the person bringing the offering (Not before burning it to a crisp). But then David wanted to centralize the religion and move it to the Jerusalem, thus making it the political AND religious center of the tribes of Israel, thus giving the King more power over the religion and the faith of his people. Do you really want me to continue with this one? It's super long. Another example is two slightly different versions of the ten commandments from the tribal days to the agricultural days, the time jump is somehow around the 2-3 generations. Some things are added while others are omitted to signify the change in the lifestyle of the people. THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WERE SUBJECT TO CHANGE. YES, DON'T BE SHOCKED.
DJjaffacake: I had a think, and it definitely isn't, those are the principles on which people base their lives. If I think killing people is wrong, and a big floaty man tells me it isn't, then I'll tell him to fuck off and consider him a massive dick.
As for the gay thing, creating people who are gay, and telling them it is fine to have those feelings, but then condemning them if they should, shock horror, act on those feelings, is cruel and unnecessary, and an omniscient being should know better.
Well it is wrong for you to kill.
Yeah God forbid people be able to control their urges...your view strikes me as being selfish, everything is about what can God do for you.
The killing thing was just an example, and it is not selfish to expect an omnipotent being to not be a dick. There's no reason to make people gay if you then make it a crime to act on that. If you had the power to easily end world hunger and disease, I would hope that you would do so. If doing something wonderful takes little or no effort there is no reason to not do it. I'll agree that god is awesome once he demonstrates that fact, and not before.
Frokane: From what my christian friends and aquantinces have told me is that if you dont accept jesus christ as your saviour before you die you wont go to heaven, so that which would mean you go to hell.
but then there are those who say as long as you are generally a good person you will go to heaven.
what is the truth?
. Well, Jews say there is no hell for you to go to. If you sin against god the people affected from it will be you and your ancestors.
Um, no, that's actually an incredibly unorthodox viewpoint in Judaism, and not one I think I've ever heard of. Gehinnom is basically Hell, and your sins shouldn't have any impact on your descendants.
Where does the Bible state that jealousy is a sin?