Pastor Harris of North Carolina tells parents to beat their effiminate sons and butch daughters

 Pages 1 2 3 4 NEXT
 

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/05/02/audio-baptist-pastor-tells-flock-to-crack-the-limp-wrists-of-their-effeminate-sons/

We(the United States) are clearly living in a post-gender society. Sexism is no longer an issue. All relevant parties proceed to point fingers at those backward middle Easterners and East Asians. Anyone complaining about sexism and patriarchy in the modern United States is clearly 'Doing it Wrong'. Gender movements of any variety are no longer required as one need only look down their nose at other cultures to spread equality. And also, this is merely another of hundreds of thousands of Christians who have put their foot in their mouth publicly and do not represent the loving and forward Christian majorityTM. Please ignore the audience's resounding "amens" to all his depraved statements.

As is sourced, Pastor Harris basically said, "if your son is "limp wristed", "crack it"".

And to make a direct quote from the article of a direct quote from Harris:

He told the congregation: "So your little son starts to act a little girlish when he is four years old and instead of squashing that like a cockroach and saying, 'Man up, son, get that dress off you and get outside and dig a ditch, because that is what boys do,' you get out the camera and you start taking pictures of Johnny acting like a female and then you upload it to YouTube and everybody laughs about it and the next thing you know, this dude, this kid is acting out childhood fantasies that should have been squashed."

He seems to have spared girls a less "manly" wrath. But no less disconcerting.

He continues: "And when your daughter starts acting too Butch you reign her in. And you say, 'Oh, no, sweetheart. You can play sports. Play them to the glory of God. But sometimes you are going to act like a girl and walk like a girl and talk like a girl and smell like a girl and that means you are going to be beautiful. You are going to be attractive. You are going to dress yourself up.'"

So beat up your effeminate sons, and scold your butch daughters and take away privileges.

Because men must be judged by their merits, and women must be pretty. It's good to know that even though the prudishness of Christians, a woman's worth is still through her objectification. So put on that frilly dress, young girl, for your worth and godliness is in how pretty you are, even if you're a little girl.

Does this man not realize that this is child abuse?

Well, this article made me hit my rage quota for the day. Thanks for that.

I really don't have much else to say about it. Gender stereotypes were outdated AT LEAST 30 years ago, so this shouldn't still be an issue. But now, in comes a bigoted pastor trying to speak for the majority of Christians (or even the country in general) and trying to order us to beat our children into conforming to his ideal gender roles and stereotypes. Hopefully, people will take his words with a grain of salt and get on with their lives.

*sigh* Not another one of THOSE pastors who read the cliff notes instead of the actual Bible. Yes men and women are different but that doesnt mean men must act one way and women must act another.

Seekster:
*sigh* Not another one of THOSE pastors who read the cliff notes instead of the actual Bible. Yes men and women are different but that doesnt mean men must act one way and women must act another.

Indeed. Last I checked "spare the rod, spoil the child" was referring to disciplining them when they've done wrong, not psychologically abusing them and causing them to be repressed because you're so afraid of them catching teh gay.

More outdated stereotypes and discriminatory, sometimes even violent attempts to enforce them. The only good thing I have to say about those people is that they appear to be dwindling, presumably because they are dying off with too few new ones to replace them.

Also noted:

Pastor Harris also urged the congregation to vote for a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage

Wake up the IRS, this church just lost their tax exemption!

Here's a Forbes article on this asshole: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/05/02/north-carolina-pastor-sean-harris-urges-parents-to-man-up-and-punch-effeminate-children/ ...he "walks it back a bit" near the end. Yeah, just a bit.

...and then he retracts it completely: http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/retraction.html

Yeah, mister, you gotta work on your apologies there. I mean, he got the insincerity thing down pat, but he needs to release a video where he gets all emotional and such so he can be just like all those fraudster televangelists!

evilneko:
Wake up the IRS, this church just lost their tax exemption!

If that were actually tracked, just how many churches would still have their exemption?

Naheal:

evilneko:
Wake up the IRS, this church just lost their tax exemption!

If that were actually tracked, just how many churches would still have their exemption?

Probably not very many. It definitely should be rigorously enforced though.

evilneko:

Naheal:

evilneko:
Wake up the IRS, this church just lost their tax exemption!

If that were actually tracked, just how many churches would still have their exemption?

Probably not very many. It definitely should be rigorously enforced though.

It won't be. The moment that someone goes after a church for being involved in politics, their political career is over.

Good thing IRS auditors aren't elected then. ;)

Seekster:
*sigh* Not another one of THOSE pastors who read the cliff notes instead of the actual Bible. Yes men and women are different but that doesnt mean men must act one way and women must act another.

1. Isn't that what most pastors do? I can say that I've been to enough sermons to notice pastors just seem to bring up some of the sections of the bible repeatable, while for the most part ignoring the rest, especially the controversial things.

2. Why were there such cliff notes in the bible to begin with?

3. If the majority of pastors don't preach these sections who also do not fit in with todays modern society, why not change the bible the church is using? It has been done before, so why not today?

This is not a new sentiment. Boys have been told to man up as long as I can remember. Parents, teachers, coaches, peers, women and media have always told boys/young men to "Be a Man!" "Man Up!" "Don't be a Wuss!" He was probably, quite literally in this case, preaching to the choir. It's a shame because this is not even a gay issue. It's a individuality issue. There are plenty of effeminate straight guys and plenty of macho gay guys. How quickly they forget, Rock Hudson was gay!

To quote a friend from another board that is discussing this, "They can beat me as much as they want, as long as I'm allowed to moan". Not that I have much to worry about, I'm always the femme half of my relationships. I'm a lesbian, not a biker.

"You were made by God to be a male". Harris seems to be confusing gender and sex, and clearly needs to read some of Judith Butler's work on Gender Performativity - after the UN Declaration of Human Rights, the Bible and several other texts that do not support his wacky theories.

evilneko:
Good thing IRS auditors aren't elected then. ;)

They aren't! Instead, they answer to elected officials...

LilithSlave:

Does this man not realize that this is child abuse?

Some of this sounds like tough love and after seeing how some parents discipline their children, I can't say I'm against it. While on the subject of parenting.....

Volf:

LilithSlave:

Does this man not realize that this is child abuse?

Some of this sounds like tough love and after seeing how some parents discipline their children, I can't say I'm against it. While on the subject of parenting.....

No.

Somebody who demands fathers to punch their young boys for acting effeminately is advocating "tough love" in the same way that Rudolf Höss advocated "good sanitation" for his prisoners.

Pretty horrible.

In fact, this may actually cross the line from protected free speech to advocating a crime. Which is not to say I want the guy arrested. That would give the bastard exactly the kind of attention he's angling for. He should fade into obscurity. Though I wouldn't mind if on the way the pastor gets thoroughly investigated by child welfare to see if he abused his own kids (if he has any) and his church loses their tax exempt status. Sounds a bit more like a Wahhabist Saudi Arabian than an American if you ask me.

Volf:

LilithSlave:

Does this man not realize that this is child abuse?

Some of this sounds like tough love and after seeing how some parents discipline their children, I can't say I'm against it. While on the subject of parenting.....

Pleas tell me you don't actually think that "disciplining a child" is the same as beating them.

I like the part where he acknowledges that some listeners might worry that they don't have the right to do that, and says he is giving them the right.

And yeah, like the OP said, just another outlier, no pattern here.

Amnestic:

Volf:

LilithSlave:

Does this man not realize that this is child abuse?

Some of this sounds like tough love and after seeing how some parents discipline their children, I can't say I'm against it. While on the subject of parenting.....

Pleas tell me you don't actually think that "disciplining a child" is the same as beating them.

If by beating you mean punching in the face/stomach, no, that is abuse. If you mean spanking and doing labor(see:mowing lawn, painting the house, cleaning the bathrooms, and other physical chores), then yes, that is disciplining a child.

Volf:
Some of this sounds like tough love and after seeing how some parents discipline their children, I can't say I'm against it. While on the subject of parenting...

If breaking your child's wrist for not conforming to gender roles is "love", I loathe to see what hate looks like.

LilithSlave:

If breaking your child's wrist for not conforming to gender roles is "love", I loathe to see what hate looks like.

Which is why I used the word "some", as in I don't completely agree with everything the guy said. I agree with the idea that physical discipline can be used, just not in the manner that the guy was advocating.

Volf:
If by beating you mean punching in the face/stomach, no, that is abuse. If you mean spanking and doing labor(see:mowing lawn, painting the house, cleaning the bathrooms, and other physical chores), then yes, that is disciplining a child.

"My daughter keeps looking at that girl across the street. Better spank her until she gets it right." Yeah, that'll be really effective, and won't lead to any sort of trauma in the future...

Aris Khandr:

Volf:
If by beating you mean punching in the face/stomach, no, that is abuse. If you mean spanking and doing labor(see:mowing lawn, painting the house, cleaning the bathrooms, and other physical chores), then yes, that is disciplining a child.

"My daughter keeps looking at that girl across the street. Better spank her until she gets it right." Yeah, that'll be really effective, and won't lead to any sort of trauma in the future...

I just skimmed the OP but wasn't it about children acting out? I was spanked as a child when I misbehaved and I'm not traumatized by it.

Volf:

Aris Khandr:

Volf:
If by beating you mean punching in the face/stomach, no, that is abuse. If you mean spanking and doing labor(see:mowing lawn, painting the house, cleaning the bathrooms, and other physical chores), then yes, that is disciplining a child.

"My daughter keeps looking at that girl across the street. Better spank her until she gets it right." Yeah, that'll be really effective, and won't lead to any sort of trauma in the future...

I just skimmed the OP but wasn't it about children acting out? I was spanked as a child when I misbehaved and I'm not traumatized by it.

No, this is a pastor telling people to beat their children for acting too effeminate (if boys) and too masculine (if girls). It's blatant homophobia and using a church to instruct people to abuse their children.

Aris Khandr:

Volf:

Aris Khandr:

"My daughter keeps looking at that girl across the street. Better spank her until she gets it right." Yeah, that'll be really effective, and won't lead to any sort of trauma in the future...

I just skimmed the OP but wasn't it about children acting out? I was spanked as a child when I misbehaved and I'm not traumatized by it.

No, this is a pastor telling people to beat their children for acting too effeminate (if boys) and too masculine (if girls). It's blatant homophobia and using a church to instruct people to abuse their children.

Ah, well on that note, I get why parents might want to have their sons act masculine and their daughters act feminine, but I don't know if I would spank a girl for playing with trucks.

Yeah, and I'd like my hypothetical child to be a genius who shares my interest in football, but I'm not going to beat her if she comes home wearing a Tottenham jersey.

Sorry for some of the possible confusion in the title, it shifted between being North and South Carolina, because some sources were saying North Carolina, and some saying South Carolina.

But he appears to be from Fayetteville, which is in North Caronlina. Topic title changes permanently. Sorry for the misinformation.

Fayetteville is a city with 200,564 people according to wikipedia. If even so many as 5,000 from Fayetteville feel this way and agree with this man, well, let's just say that 200,564 divided by 5,000 is around 40. That's an awfully depressing thought. I sure hope there aren't as many as 5,000 people who agree with this lunacy.

Aris Khandr:
Yeah, and I'd like my hypothetical child to be a genius who shares my interest in football, but I'm not going to beat her if she comes home wearing a Tottenham jersey.

Like I said, I wouldn't beat my hypothetical daughter for playing with trucks. I would however discourage(see: talk to) my hypothetical son from wearing lipstick and wearing a dress.

I would encourage my own (hypothetical) children, if anything, to disobey their own gender roles. I wouldn't pressure them or give them any kind of talking if they happened to like doing things assigned to their own gender. But I would have to say I would be more pleased if my children were interested in defying gender roles.

I wouldn't want them to do things that would hurt themselves. But I'd be proud if my son took an interest in wearing dresses. I'm of the opinion that gender roles are not biological, and need to die as soon as possible. I think that gender roles are hazardous to society(people consider "radical feminism" to mean "the true feminazi man-hating version. I consider myself a "radical feminist" because I believe that gender roles as they are now are patriarchal and unless they are wiped from the culture of the world, women will never be free of patriarchy) and I think this pastor is a prime example of why. It reinforces my radical feminist position that gender roles themselves fit into a patriarchal mode of society and must be destroyed entirely and permanently or women will never have equality. The amusing thing about the subject of feminism and everyone's misconceptions of it, is that you get those who say things like "you're confusing mild feminists with those man hating radical feminists." I am a radical feminist, and I don't hate men either. Radically egalitarian, not radically misandrist.

Of course, I wouldn't beat my children for this. You shouldn't "harsh love" your children if you can. Or would you want me viciously pressuring my son into wearing a dress? If it hurt none, I think that you should let kids be themselves. If so called gender behavioral differences are biological like many I disagree with think(as someone who thinks that gender roles are an unfortunate aspect of society and patriarchy that need to be destroyed, I obviously do not think them biological), then it would be best to just let them be themselves, and see.

Or are people who think that gender roles are biological, in fear that they are also sociological, and deviance need to be stamped out? I don't know what your motivations for having your child adhere to gender roles would be, maybe having them avoid bullying? But I would work for a world where it doesn't matter how men and women behave, so long as they behave morally, and there not be any stress to wear any kind of clothing based upon how they were born. If gender roles were biological(and they're not), who are we to tell them to behave masculine or feminine? Because if that were true, that would mean some boys are born effeminate and some girls are born butch, and you wouldn't be able to change them, only hurt them. For the nth time repeating, I think that gender rules are sociological problem, not a biological fact. But either way, pressuring a child to conform to a gender role is not a good idea and not helpful.

But it is completely different from what Sean Harris has advocated. You bring up this argument as if it some kind of defense of him. The two are not the same, worrying for your kid being bullied in school and bullying them yourself are two different things.

CaptainOctopus:
If the majority of pastors don't preach these sections who also do not fit in with todays modern society, why not change the bible the church is using? It has been done before, so why not today?

No, I really don't think it has been done before. I think you're just confused about the different translations being used, (almost?) no Christian group has "changed the bible" in that way.

LilithSlave:
I would encourage my own (hypothetical) children, if anything, to disobey their own gender roles. I wouldn't pressure them or give them any kind of talking if they happened to like doing things assigned to their own gender. But I would have to say I would be more pleased if my children were interested in defying gender roles.

I wouldn't want them to do things that would hurt themselves. But I'd be proud if my son took an interest in wearing dresses. I'm of the opinion that gender roles are not biological, and need to die as soon as possible. I think that gender roles are hazardous to society(people consider "radical feminism" to mean "the true feminazi man-hating version. I consider myself a "radical feminist" because I believe that gender roles as they are now are patriarchal and unless they are wiped from the culture of the world, women will never be free of patriarchy) and I think this pastor is a prime example of why. It reinforces my radical feminist position that gender roles themselves fit into a patriarchal mode of society and must be destroyed entirely and permanently or women will never have equality. The amusing thing about the subject of feminism and everyone's misconceptions of it, is that you get those who say things like "you're confusing mild feminists with those man hating radical feminists." I am a radical feminist, and I don't hate men either. Radically egalitarian, not radically misandrist.

Ok, I'm going to save myself from arguing with you. If you want to put your son in a dress that's your business, but I'm not going to promote it.

Volf:

Aris Khandr:
Yeah, and I'd like my hypothetical child to be a genius who shares my interest in football, but I'm not going to beat her if she comes home wearing a Tottenham jersey.

Like I said, I wouldn't beat my hypothetical daughter for playing with trucks. I would however discourage(see: talk to) my hypothetical son from wearing lipstick and wearing a dress.

What if your hypothetical son was just born to be a drag queen? Who are you to deny him that, you dream-crushing monster!

I joke, of course. Mostly.

Volf:
but I'm not going to promote it.

Likewise, I'm not going to promote the existence of gender roles. Or basically, your perspective.

Also, seems awfully horrid to respond to someone with a mocking cartoon clip. And that's it.

 Pages 1 2 3 4 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked