BOOM headshot65: Ugh, this is the problem. The laws are differnt all across the country. Here, a cop can taze you for resisting arrest, even so much as stubling around drunk, saying "F*** the police", and not listening to thier orders gets you tazed. And apparently that is "police brutality" in California. I thought the pepperspray was ENTIRELY warrented because they were resisting arrest and refusing to follow police orders. The only thing I saw him doing wrong is around here you are supposed to continue giving them orders while spraying them.
You seem to be unable to understand that the protesters were non-violent which makes the use of a pepper spray completely unwarranted.
BOOM headshot65: Actually, the US scored the highest out of any country on Global Integrity's list.
BOOM headshot65: You do realize that you still need a permit to protest, right? However, unless you have a history of abusing said permit or being destructive, by law they have to give you a permit.
Really? Permission from the government to protest the government? You see nothing wrong with that?
BOOM headshot65: storming City Halls and burning the American flag
Those traitorous fucks! How DARE they burn our flag! EXECUTE THEM!
BOOM headshot65: .Blocking traffic...attempting to shutdown seaports...preventing people from doing thier jobs...OH MY GOD! THEY'RE SO PEACEFUL!!
PROTESTS MUST BE CONTAINED AND DONE IN AREAS WHERE PEOPLE CAN IGNORE THEM! IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE ACTUAL CHANGE!
BOOM headshot65: Actually, yes. If they TRUELY believed in thier movement, they should have been prepared to do ANYTHING, including getting arrested, beat down, maybe even shot and killed for thier movement. THAT is the differnce between the Civil Rights movement and the Occupy "movement".
And in what way were they not "prepared" to be arrested? Because they protested those arrests? Because they refused to get arrested for doing nothing violent? You talk as if what the police did to the Civil Rights movement was A-OK and that instead of trying to fight police brutality protesters should "be prepared" to die.
BOOM headshot65: Im sorry, Maybe you can help me. I cant seem to find any reports of people in the Civil Rights movement bad-mouthing police
I'm sure throughout the entirety of the Civil Rights movement no one ever, and I mean EVER, swore at the police. Actually, now that I thought about it, you're right. Getting run over, sprayed with pepper spray, and being beaten is not grounds for "bad mouthing" the police. In fact, how dare those dirty hippies talk bad about our boys? THEY SHOULD BE THROWN IN JAIL!
BOOM headshot65: Really? How is the fact they are rich a problem? Maybe if you are a communist it is a problem, but we live in a capitalist society.
That's not the fucking point Jesus fucking Christ.
BOOM headshot65: But those kind of people are the MINORITY. Most people who are rich are rich because they made good business choices, they kept track of thier investments (as well as making good investments).
You mean like those good and honest Wall Street Businessmen or those gosh darn Banks who care so much about the safety and welfare of your cash!
BOOM headshot65: This is what seems to have been forgotten since the time of Teddy Roosevelt. There are two types of rich people. The good ones and the bad ones. We need to get the bad ones behind bars, and remind the good ones that while there is no such thing as "too rich", they are not above the law.
BOOM headshot65: Ugh, this is the problem. The laws are differnt all across the country. Here, a cop can taze you for resisting arrest, even so much as stubling around drunk, saying "F*** the police", and not listening to thier orders gets you tazed. And apparently that is "police brutality" in California. I thought the pepperspray was ENTIRELY warrented because they were resisting arrest and refusing to follow police orders. The only thing I saw him doing wrong is around here you are supposed to continue giving them orders while spraying them.
You seem to be unable to understand that the protesters were non-violent which makes the use of a pepper spray completely unwarranted.
Because BOOM is the most authoritarian poster I have ever seen on this forum.
You seem to be unable to understand that the protesters were non-violent which makes the use of a pepper spray completely unwarranted.
And you seem to not understand that they were resisting arrest and the police needed a way to break them up and arrest them without leaving them injured or permenatly disabled, like a baton would have done.
Ok, fine, the fact still remains that the US is not very corrupt.
Really? Permission from the government to protest the government? You see nothing wrong with that?
Again, BY LAW they have to give you the permit. If they dont, they are fined (city governments give out permits, not federal or state). The ONLY reason they can refuse a permit to you is because you have a poor history with you permits, ie you attacked people, you vandalised property, etc.
Those traitorous fucks! How DARE they burn our flag! EXECUTE THEM!
What?! Execute them. Come on, thats extreme....It should be a federal offense.(<---Serious)
PROTESTS MUST BE CONTAINED AND DONE IN AREAS WHERE PEOPLE CAN IGNORE THEM! IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE ACTUAL CHANGE!
PROTEST MUST STILL FOLLOW THE LAW! BLOCKING INTERNATIONAL/INTERSTATE TRADE IS AGAINST THE LAW!!
Dont bring up Occupy Oakland or the like. They were with the rioting separatist movement, NOT Occupy.
Except Occupy never disowned any of thier more rebellious members. The Black Sepratist movement WAS disowned by the Civil Rights movement. Thus, Occupy Oakland is still a part of Occupy, while the Black Panthers were a rouge element acting alone and unrelated to the Civil Rights Movement. If Occupy would stop protecting EVERYONE in thier ranks, including the anarchist, they would get alot more support (notice thier support started dieing off after the Oakland Riots).
My sarcasm meter is going off the charts!
It must be broken then, because I was 100% serious. The military is underfunded and will be unable to carryout its global commitments at this rate.
And in what way were they not "prepared" to be arrested? Because they protested those arrests? Because they refused to get arrested for doing nothing violent? You talk as if what the police did to the Civil Rights movement was A-OK and that instead of trying to fight police brutality protesters should "be prepared" to die.
Bolded=Um....Yes. The difference is that in the Civil Rights movement, the African Americans kept themselves under control and didnt fight back, and stayed silent the whole time. When those images hit the news, people saw that they were innocent, and got pissed. With Occupy, they started whining about how they "cant be arrested" because "we are fighting the good fight", and when THOSE hit the news, people started to think they were abunch of self-entitled pricks.
In fact, how dare those dirty hippies talk bad about our boys? THEY SHOULD BE THROWN IN JAIL!
I...really wish you would stop insulting the police. I know the local Sheriff, I know 70% of the force. I may join when I get out of college (thinking Corrections or Parole officer). The bad police are a minority. Most are just following orders. You can argue wether those orders are bad or not, but dont hold them accountable, hold the people who gave the orders accountable. And NO!!!!! it is NOT!!!! Charles Koch or any other millionare trying to "suppress Occupy".
You seem to be missing the point, again.
How so? I mean, even their little battlecry says "We hate Rich people." You know, the whole "99% vs. 1%" thing[1]. The 1% are the rich, right? This is just people being mad because "Someone is richer than me. WAHHH!!" They could try alittle harder to stop looking like they want money. At least that local one I mentioned was able to do that.
You mean like those good and honest Wall Street Businessmen or those gosh darn Banks who care so much about the safety and welfare of your cash!
Who ever said I trust them. No, they are a bunch of Slime-balls. However, they can run thier business however they want. Just dont expect to get any of my money. I will keep it in my small-town bank and watch my investments myself, as well as only give money to businesses that I approve of thier practices.
It's NOT A STORY if "Occupy" doesn't act up. There were Occupy protests all over the country, and there was a mere handful of violent acts.
The people who were non-violent I am ok with. I may not agree with them, but I am Ok with them (so long as they keep where they are protesting clean and dont stay for extended periods). Heck, my social worker went to the local Occupy for a day....she left after the ones in other cities started turning violent. Seems like sane people did.
Because BOOM is the most authoritarian poster I have ever seen on this forum.
Heh...If I am authoritarian, what doest that make Hitler?
No, I HATE authoritarians. Not the "I really mean strongly dislike" hate. I want them all to hang from the highest tree in town. I want them to have a bomb shoved up thier hind-end. I want them to die as slowly as possible, because they dont deserve a quick death. Dictators are nothing but bullies who abuse their power, and we DO NOT DO THAT HERE IN AMERICA!!!! Yes, a MINORITY do, but NOT!! the Majority like people make it out to be because they need a scapegoat. SIC...SIMPER....TYRANNIS!
BOOM headshot65: And you seem to not understand that they were resisting arrest and the police needed a way to break them up and arrest them without leaving them injured or permenatly disabled, like a baton would have done.
You do realize that pepper spray can permanently disable and injure you, right?
BOOM headshot65: Ok, fine, the fact still remains that the US is not very corrupt.
Do you have anything to support that claim?
BOOM headshot65: Again, BY LAW they have to give you the permit. If they dont, they are fined (city governments give out permits, not federal or state). The ONLY reason they can refuse a permit to you is because you have a poor history with you permits, ie you attacked people, you vandalised property, etc.
What law?
BOOM headshot65: What?! Execute them. Come on, thats extreme....It should be a federal offense.(<---Serious)
Freedom of speech. A BOOM Headshot original short by BOOM Headshot.
BOOM headshot65: PROTEST MUST STILL FOLLOW THE LAW! BLOCKING INTERNATIONAL/INTERSTATE TRADE IS AGAINST THE LAW!!
A protest that follows the law would have virtually no impact and kudos to Occupy for actually doing what it took to get the attention necessary to make their grievances heard.
BOOM headshot65: Except Occupy never disowned any of thier more rebellious members.
Occupy doesn't have a central leadership to do such things.
How do you know that? Did you talk to each member of the Occupy protests in private and asked them whether they consider Occupy Oakland part of the movement?
BOOM headshot65: If Occupy would stop protecting EVERYONE in thier ranks, including the anarchist, they would get alot more support (notice thier support started dieing off after the Oakland Riots).
When did they support Occupy Oakland?
BOOM headshot65: It must be broken then, because I was 100% serious. The military is underfunded and will be unable to carryout its global commitments at this rate.
If you give the military more money your country will go bankrupt.
BOOM headshot65: The difference is that in the Civil Rights movement, the African Americans kept themselves under control and didnt fight back, and stayed silent the whole time
Nope.
BOOM headshot65: When those images hit the news, people saw that they were innocent, and got pissed. With Occupy, they started whining about how they "cant be arrested" because "we are fighting the good fight", and when THOSE hit the news, people started to think they were abunch of self-entitled pricks.
It's funny how often you talk about shit you don't understand. What the Occupy people were against was THE WAY those arrests were made and the numerous accounts of police brutality. You're watching too much Fox News. It lowers your IQ by half incidentally.
BOOM headshot65: I...really wish you would stop insulting the police.
You live in the US, a country that supposedly values freedom of speech. I can talk shit about whatever I liek.
BOOM headshot65: I know the local Sheriff, I know 70% of the force.
I know the local drug dealers. That makes me cool and edgy.
BOOM headshot65: I may join when I get out of college (thinking Corrections or Parole officer)
And you reached this conclusion through riguros examination and scientific methdology and not at all by meeting a couple of cops in your small home town, thinking they're "oh so kewl" and concluding that all cops are awesome people with guns strapped to their asses.
I bet one of the orders was specifically to commit police brutality.
BOOM headshot65: You can argue wether those orders are bad or not, but dont hold them accountable, hold the people who gave the orders accountable.
What do you mean don't hold them accountable? Even if the higher ups specifically told those cops to be agressive towards the protesters and breach rights that doesn't mean the people who followed through with those orders shouldn't be held accountable. After all, people aren't empy shells who follow commands without question.
BOOM headshot65: And NO!!!!! it is NOT!!!! Charles Koch or any other millionare trying to "suppress Occupy".
I don't even know who that guy is.
BOOM headshot65: How so? I mean, even their little battlecry says "We hate Rich people."
Seriously, stop watching Fox News. It's affecting you.
BOOM headshot65: You know, the whole "99% vs. 1%" thing[1]. The 1% are the rich, right? This is just people being mad because "Someone is richer than me. WAHHH!!"
Nope. That "slogan" was used to point out that most of the wealth is concentrated in the top 1% of the population.
BOOM headshot65: They could try alittle harder to stop looking like they want money. At least that local one I mentioned was able to do that.
That's not what they were protesting. Did you even bother to switch the TV to anything BUT Fox News? You know, get the whole story instead of what that irish fuck shits out of his mouth every morning?
BOOM headshot65: However, they can run thier business however they want.
You know, that idea got us into a recession.
BOOM headshot65: The people who were non-violent I am ok with. I may not agree with them, but I am Ok with them (so long as they keep where they are protesting clean and dont stay for extended periods).
"I agree with the civil rights movement as long as their protests don't affect me in any way."
PercyBoleyn: You live in the US, a country that supposedly values freedom of speech. I can talk shit about whatever I liek.
You best not be talking shit about mudkips, bro.
PercyBoleyn: A protest that follows the law would have virtually no impact
Really? For good or for ill, the Tea party movement has had an effect.
Also, when your protest inconveniences people who have nothing to do with why you're mad, you're only increasing the chance they'll be cheering when the police break out the pepper spray and riot gear.
PercyBoleyn: The students were not violent. The cop had no right to pepper spray them. That was a staunch abuse of power and he should have been punished.
I think to remember last time I asked if anyone who said that had a different solution that:
-Removed the protestors that were blocking the university -Allowed some 20-30 policemen to remove hundreds of those protestors -Took a few hours at most to perform
Everybody who criticised the police for using pepperspray there, then fell silent because they had no solution that satisfied those criteria.
Quite frankly I'm also mystified at how that mob thought that blocking other people's education is a form of protesting anything.
PercyBoleyn: It's called protesting. Deal with it. Those people are actually trying to make a difference in their lives as opposed to living with the status quo because "that's just the way it is".
Actually, self-enrichment seems to be the motive in many cases. Like the OWS protests here are exclusively the domain of squatters, who already busy themselves stealing property to enrich themselves unlawfully.
Blablahb: Actually, self-enrichment seems to be the motive in many cases. Like the OWS protests here are exclusively the domain of squatters, who already busy themselves stealing property to enrich themselves unlawfully.
And that makes everyone who took part in OWS a crrrrriminal!!! by default then, amirite?
Thing is, there's no point to protest against anything if you can be easily ignored. Now; I of course say that people who wreck up and steal stuff under the cover of a "protest" need to be whacked, but
Blablahb: I think to remember last time I asked if anyone who said that had a different solution that:
-Removed the protestors that were blocking the university -Allowed some 20-30 policemen to remove hundreds of those protestors -Took a few hours at most to perform
Blocking stuff is kind of the point of protests, to an extent. Hogging the attention. Going "Just a minute, bucko, I ain't moving until I get some feedback that they got my point over there."
It's sad that only the squeaky wheel gets the grease, isn't it? Because that means the only way to get noticed is to crash something. So people figure being hated still beats being, you know...ignored.
At least that's my guess on it. I don't really take part in protests cause the only crowds I can tolerate are located around an ice hockey rink.
PercyBoleyn: A protest that follows the law would have virtually no impact
Really? For good or for ill, the Tea party movement has had an effect.
The Teabaggers had the decided advantage of starting out as a wholly-owned subsidiary of Fox News, guaranteeing them 24/7 news coverage. Occupy had to spend a SOLID MONTH camped out before the Controlled Media would even deign to acknowledge their existence.
Occupy had to spend a SOLID MONTH camped out before the Controlled Media would even deign to acknowledge their existence.
And when they had the attention of the media, did they use it well? Furthermore, this is the era of online news. Many people were aware of occupy since it started.
Unfortunately for me, this is one of those statements that is DAMN HARD to 'prove' without multiple pages of media statistical analysis. And I have videogames to play.
CM156: Also, media darlings? Did you watch any network other than FOX back in '09? Yeah. No.
Every time these Paul Revere cosplayers appeared in public, it was 'news'. What else would you call them?
arbane: Unfortunately for me, this is one of those statements that is DAMN HARD to 'prove' without multiple pages of media statistical analysis. And I have videogames to play.
Video games > online debate. And that's not sarcasm.
Every time these Paul Revere cosplayers appeared in public, it was 'news'. What else would you call them?
I remember seeing several pundits mock them or name call. Which is fair, I suppose. I did the same thing to occupy. But outside of FOX, the news reports weren't very positive.
Those traitorous fucks! How DARE they burn our flag! EXECUTE THEM!
What?! Execute them. Come on, thats extreme....It should be a federal offense.(<---Serious)
I'll bite. WHY. Why, in a country that supposedly values freedom of speech, should burning a flag be a federal offense. I cannot WAIT to see this.
Because it is not freedom of speech to burn the flag. It is wishing ruin upon this country, and if that is what you want GET....OUT....OF...THIS...COUNTRY!!![1]It makes a mockery of the people who laid down thier lives to let you protest them laying down thier lives. I would love nothing more than for burning the flag to be considered the same offense as shooting a Bald Eagle.
That might be the most absurd thing I've ever read. The military is underfunded? You shitting me?
The U.S. spends more on its military than about the next 15 nations combined.
The next 15 militaries dont have to guard the worlds sealanes. The next 15 militaries dont have to guard countries too small, too poor, or both to have an army of thier own. The Next 15 countries dont have to fight pirates and terrorist abroad and ensure the safety of the free world. WE DO! Yes, there are places we can find ways to spend less without losing our global commitments, but the $1 trillion in cuts they just recieved was a chainsaw when we needed a scalpel.
Why.
Because most of them havent done anything wrong and are just being used as scapegoats.
All the time, you preach submission to authority. Do whatever the cops, government or military say. THAT'S authoritarianism.
No, I just tell people to follow the rules[2]. If you dont like the rules, you have 2 options in my mind: 1) Break the rules. However, you should be prepared to accept punishment and take responsiblity for your actions. 2) Change the rules. Get a petition going. Write the government (state, local, or Fed). Anything, just so you can try to have them changed.
You do realize that pepper spray can permanently disable and injure you, right?
Rarely, or when used improperly. The cop there was not using it improperly, and the odds of somebody being harmed by pepperspray is exceedingly high. The only thing I can think of is that the police are to wash your eyes out with water after applying pepperspray. If they hadnt done that, then yes, the guy should have gotten in trouble, and I would have cared if someone had tried to sue him. However, they arrested no one. They got chased off by an angry mob.
Do you have anything to support that claim?
Yes, And I double checked this one to makes sure it is correct:
Transparency International: The Global Anti-Corruption group rated the US 24 out of 183. That is still VERY GOOD.
ps: Apparently, the majority of Americans think the military is uncorrupt, rating it 2.8 out of 5...while political parties (all of them) were rated at 4.3 out of 5....makes perfect sense to me.
Freedom of speech. A BOOM Headshot original short by BOOM Headshot.
See my responce to Tyler Perry concering this.
A protest that follows the law would have virtually no impact and kudos to Occupy for actually doing what it took to get the attention necessary to make their grievances heard.
Oh, yeah they got heard alright, then people turned them off because all they saw was abunch of lawbreakers. See, if you break the laws, you WILL lose peoples support, unless it is a law that people think is biased (see: Jim Crow Laws), then you will get support. Most of the laws Occupy broke apply to everyone equally and have been around for years.
Occupy doesn't have a central leadership to do such things.
And it never occured to them that that might become a problem?? This would be why they appeared/were said to be "unorgainzed."
How do you know that? Did you talk to each member of the Occupy protests in private and asked them whether they consider Occupy Oakland part of the movement?
Because thier leadership never denounced the pratices there. It doesnt matter what the individuals in the movement think. I KNOW there are people in the Tea Party who dont agree with alot of the things thier leaders do, but that doesnt change the fact that they are viewed by what thier leaders say.
If you give the military more money your country will go bankrupt.
Again, if we make more cuts, we will be unable to maintain our global commitments. What we REALLY need to do is rein in out-of-control entitlement spending. (<----NOT GET RID OF IT!! Just make cuts/raise taxes [read: both] so it is no longer losing money)
You're watching too much Fox News. It lowers your IQ by half incidentally.
Alright, I admit it. I watch Fox News....And CNN.....and afew local stations....and read USA Today.....And Time Magazine....and numerous local papers. Actually, considering I only watch two people on Fox(Bill O'Reilly and Shepard Smith), I dont think I can even Say I watch Fox regularly like I do the other Ones.
I know the local drug dealers. That makes me cool and edgy.
It makes you the aid to criminal activity, and sooner or later karma will catch up to you.
They won't let you join.
Why not? Most of the guys I have talked to said that my enthusiam is great, my government teacher said I would be good because I make my ruling "Based entirly on law, not on emotion, or status, or income." Even if I dont, I have other jobs lined up.
Videotographer for a news station (I have been taking classes over that), Truck Driver, Train Engineer, Fire Department. I can find Anything to do, so long as it pays [anything] and is legal.
I don't even know who that guy is.
Really???? You dont know who Charles Koch is.....? I thought his name was supposed to by the personification of corruption/overly rich people to the left (even though it isnt true). All righty then:
Charles Koch is the CEO of the multinational conglomerate Koch Industries, which deals mostly in oil, natural gas, ranching, and chemicals, with his brother David as the VP. As a businessman, he is excellent, and my only think I dont like about him business-wise is that he wont offer stock in Koch Industries publically, saying he would sell "Literally over my dead body". He is a very active philanthropist. You go to Witchita (the home of Koch Industries) and about 70% of the buildings there say "Charles Koch Memorial...." However, his problem is that he has a tendancy to donate money to political movements. He has paid millions to Republicans and and lobbying, including organizations against unions, global warming, and restrictions on industries.
That said, I think he gets ALOT! of undeserved hate and think that he is redeemed by the billions he has given to animal rescue, medical research, and infrastructure.
Seriously, stop watching Fox News. It's affecting you.
See other remark concerning Fox.
Nope. That "slogan" was used to point out that most of the wealth is concentrated in the top 1% of the population.
That's not what they were protesting. Did you even bother to switch the TV to anything BUT Fox News? You know, get the whole story instead of what that irish fuck shits out of his mouth every morning?
Whos Irish? I dont watch anyone Irish. Both Bill and Shep were born in America.
You know, that idea got us into a recession.
In all seriousness, the economy has booms and it has bust. When it bust, if you leave it alone it will fix itself. The companies that went bankrupt shouldnt have recieved bailouts...they should have gone bankrupt, reorganize, and then we see if they keep going. If not, too bad, so sad. If they do, good for them.
Also, when your protest inconveniences people who have nothing to do with why you're mad, you're only increasing the chance they'll be cheering when the police break out the pepper spray and riot gear.
Quoted for the truth.
[1] Or as I saw on a bumper stick at work: "If you use your 'freedom of speech' to burn the flag of my country, I will use my 'Freedom of Expression' to adjust your attitude!"
[2] I just Love how somewhere along the line, it somehow because a bad thing to tell people to follow the rules.
BOOM headshot65: Because it is not freedom of speech to burn the flag.
It most certainly is. The flag is a piece of cloth, a symbol. Burning it as an expression of extreme dissatisfaction with the nation it represents is the ultimate in freedom of speech.
BOOM headshot65: It is wishing ruin upon this country, and if that is what you want GET....OUT....OF...THIS...COUNTRY!!!
You are one of the most extreme authoritarians on this forum, whether you recognize it or not. Your basic stance here is "America ... love it or leave it!" Well, hate to break it to ya, but there have been plenty of Americans over the years who have had a damn good reason not to love her.
BOOM headshot65: Or as I saw on a bumper stick at work: "If you use your 'freedom of speech' to burn the flag of my country, I will use my 'Freedom of Expression' to adjust your attitude!"
If that's referring to assaulting said flag burner, then no, assault is not covered under freedom of expression.
BOOM headshot65: It makes a mockery of the people who laid down thier lives to let you protest them laying down thier lives.
Bullshit.
BOOM headshot65: I would love nothing more than for burning the flag to be considered the same offense as shooting a Bald Eagle.
Because you're a rabid authoritarian.
Shooting a bald eagle isn't illegal because it's the symbol of the country. Shooting a bald eagle is illegal because bald eagles are an endangered species.
I hate to pull the age card, but you are far too young and sheltered to have any clue what you're talking about.
BOOM headshot65: Because it is not freedom of speech to burn the flag. It is wishing ruin upon this country, and if that is what you want GET....OUT....OF...THIS...COUNTRY!!![1]It makes a mockery of the people who laid down thier lives to let you protest them laying down thier lives. I would love nothing more than for burning the flag to be considered the same offense as shooting a Bald Eagle.
While I'd rather leave this between you and Tyler Perry, I would like to point out that in the Supreme Court case Texas v. Johnson of 1989 it was ruled that flag burning is covered under free speech. Also, who cares? It's a piece of cloth, most likely made in China unless you buy it from a dedicated flagmaker. The only value it has is the value to which you assign it. It only taints the integrity of what it represents if you allow it to, if your value in it lies solely in some temporary object. And, if you want burning flags to be illegal, why not also make it illegal to wear the flag? Sure burning the flag is pretty disrespectful, but wearing it as underpants? Downright shameful.
[1] Or as I saw on a bumper stick at work: "If you use your 'freedom of speech' to burn the flag of my country, I will use my 'Freedom of Expression' to adjust your attitude!"
BOOM headshot65: Because it is not freedom of speech to burn the flag. It is wishing ruin upon this country, and if that is what you want GET....OUT....OF...THIS...COUNTRY!!! It makes a mockery of the people who laid down thier lives to let you protest them laying down thier lives.
[godwin]You know which OTHER country treated their flag as sacrosanct?[/godwin]
BOOM headshot65: I would love nothing more than for burning the flag to be considered the same offense as shooting a Bald Eagle.
So.... punishable by a small fine unless you have a permit?
The next 15 militaries dont have to guard the worlds sealanes. The next 15 militaries dont have to guard countries too small, too poor, or both to have an army of thier own. The Next 15 countries dont have to fight pirates and terrorist abroad and ensure the safety of the free world. WE DO!
We don't 'have' to, our leaders have just decided that's the best way to maintain our global hegemony.
It makes you the aid to criminal activity, and sooner or later karma will catch up to you.
9_9
So, know any military personnel?
Oh, yeah, I forgot. Mass-murder is OK as long as you wear the right costume while committing it. How about bankers or health-denial insurance salesmen?
BOOM headshot65: He has paid millions to Republicans and and lobbying, including organizations against unions, global warming, and restrictions on industries.
I don't like the other two much, but it's GREAT that he's spending all that money to do something about the threat of global warming....
....that's not what you meant, is it? You mean he's spending millions to get people to ignore science and pretend nothing's wrong until the rising ocean-level reaches their lower lips.
That's not what they were protesting. Did you even bother to switch the TV to anything BUT Fox News? You know, get the whole story instead of what that irish fuck shits out of his mouth every morning?
Whos Irish? I dont watch anyone Irish. Both Bill and Shep were born in America.
BOOM headshot65: and cut spending ON EVERYTHING...except the military. They are underfunded as it is.
What? Seriously fucking what? Out of all the other bullshit you said, this really stood out to me.
Actually, yes. If they TRUELY believed in thier movement, they should have been prepared to do ANYTHING, including getting arrested, beat down, maybe even shot and killed for thier movement.
Hollow because you wouldn't do it yourself.
THAT is the differnce between the Civil Rights movement and the Occupy "movement".
Am I the only one getting sick of the douchebaggy argument of trying to smear something and ridicule it by putting its name gratuitous quotation marks? You're not making a point, you're not even clever. You just make yourself look like a twit with a weak grasp over English grammar.
Really? How is the fact they are rich a problem? Maybe if you are a communist it is a problem, but we live in a capitalist society. There is ALWAYS going to be someone richer. Yes, some do use thier money to try and control things they shouldnt (see: Charles Koch). Yes, there are some who lie, cheat, and steal to get there (see: Bernard Madoff). But those kind of people are the MINORITY. Most people who are rich are rich because they made good business choices, they kept track of thier investments (as well as making good investments).
This is what seems to have been forgotten since the time of Teddy Roosevelt. There are two types of rich people. The good ones and the bad ones. We need to get the bad ones behind bars, and remind the good ones that while there is no such thing as "too rich", they are not above the law.
I would just like to point out that we don't hate rich people, no matter what the talking heads might tell you. We just don't want the government to coddle them at the expense of everyone else and we're tired of corporate welfare.
Just, you know... putting that out there.
PercyBoleyn: You do realize that pepper spray can permanently disable and injure you, right?
I'm not sure he knows what pepper spray is. The brand of spray used on the students was identified and when checked, advertised a potency of between 2 and 5.3 million Scoville units. For comparison, getting sprayed with 5 million Scoville units is like having all the capsaicin from a thousand jalapeno peppers applied directly to your eyeballs at once. If you're not tearing up just thinking of that, you're dead inside.
Beyond the dangers of applying that much concentrated capsaicin to someone's face, the chemicals in it used to discharge the contents can cause severe respiratory and neurological damage if inhaled in too great a dose, proving fatal to some people.
Most distressing of all is the knowledge that if you have a respiratory problem like asthma, inhaling pepper spray fumes can cause a fatal clogging of the breathing passageways.
So, I don't think BOOM understands that this is not a spritz of Bitter Apple to keep the dog from chewing on the furniture. This is a chemical weapon.
BOOM headshot65: Oh, yeah they got heard alright, then people turned them off because all they saw was abunch of lawbreakers.
You know who else were lawbreakers? That's right.
BOOM headshot65: Most of the laws Occupy broke apply to everyone equally and have been around for years.
They occupied a park. SHOCK, HORROR!
BOOM headshot65: And it never occured to them that that might become a problem?? This would be why they appeared/were said to be "unorgainzed."
The reason the Occupy movement choose not to have a leader is because the people who participated had a wide range of beliefs and views and they didn't think a single person would be capable of properly enunciating them.
BOOM headshot65: Because thier leadership never denounced the pratices there.
They have no leadership.
BOOM headshot65: It doesnt matter what the individuals in the movement think.
What do you mean it doesn't matter? They have no fucking leadership. Even in a protest WITH a leader the individual member's view on a particular subject still matters.
BOOM headshot65: Again, if we make more cuts, we will be unable to maintain our global commitments.
What fucking global commitments? You spend trillions of dollars on your fucking military and you've barely managed to achieve anything.
BOOM headshot65: What we REALLY need to do is rein in out-of-control entitlement spending. (<----NOT GET RID OF IT!! Just make cuts/raise taxes [read: both] so it is no longer losing money)
You're trolling aren't you?
BOOM headshot65: Actually, considering I only watch two people on Fox(Bill O'Reilly and Shepard Smith), I dont think I can even Say I watch Fox regularly like I do the other Ones.)
The simple fact that you admitted to watching that Irish fuck's show tells me you're lying.
BOOM headshot65: It makes you the aid to criminal activity, and sooner or later karma will catch up to you.
Karma doesn't exist.
BOOM headshot65: Why not? Most of the guys I have talked to said that my enthusiam is great, my government teacher said I would be good because I make my ruling "Based entirly on law, not on emotion, or status, or income."
You're like a child. Anyways, because of your condition the likelyhood of you joining the police force is fairly low.
BOOM headshot65: Whos Irish? I dont watch anyone Irish. Both Bill and Shep were born in America.
O'Reilly is an Irish name.
BOOM headshot65: In all seriousness, the economy has booms and it has bust. When it bust, if you leave it alone it will fix itself. The companies that went bankrupt shouldnt have recieved bailouts...they should have gone bankrupt, reorganize, and then we see if they keep going. If not, too bad, so sad. If they do, good for them.
Your basic stance here is "America ... love it or leave it!"
Actually, yes. It is. Same with alot of people I know. If you dont like the way we do things here...theres the door. Dont let it hit you in the ass on the way out. I am sure someone from Mexico would literally give thier arm and leg to take you place.
BOOM headshot65: It makes a mockery of the people who laid down thier lives to let you protest them laying down thier lives.
Bullshit.
Oh yeah, I forgot, somewhere along the line it became a bad thing to say soldiers are the good guys. Plus, I am sure you still want to call me a "keyboard Kommando" because I am pro-intervention and think all dictators need to die, right?
I hate to pull the age card, but you are far too young and sheltered to have any clue what you're talking about.
While I'd rather leave this between you and Tyler Perry, I would like to point out that in the Supreme Court case Texas v. Johnson of 1989 it was ruled that flag burning is covered under free speech.
I am well aware of Johnson vs. Texas. It is 1 of 3 current Supereme court cases that I cant wait for them to be overturned[1]
Also, who cares? It's a piece of cloth,
You know whats Ironic? John Paul Steven predicted that very mindset in his dissent:
"The case has nothing to do with 'disagreeable ideas.' It involves disagreeable conduct that, in my opinion, diminishes the value of an important national asset."
I personally agree with the both dissenting opinions....and while I dont like the way he voted, I agree with Kennedys Concurrence. (I usually agree with Kennedy even If I dont like the way he voted)
most likely made in China unless you buy it from a dedicated flagmaker.
Its like I always say: "When It comes to American Made, Money is no object."
And, if you want burning flags to be illegal, why not also make it illegal to wear the flag? Sure burning the flag is pretty disrespectful, but wearing it as underpants? Downright shameful.
Actually, I kind of agree with you there. No, I dont think it is disrespectful to have a tee-shirt or hat with the American flag, but there are just some lines you do not cross. That said, I still consider burning it to be more shameful. And before you try and hit me with "You burn a flag past its prime." Not around here you dont. We follow how the military does it: It is buried in a coffin the same way as a human being.
We don't 'have' to, our leaders have just decided that's the best way to maintain our global hegemony.
Alrighty then, tell me...who will keep the pirates in Africa from highjacking ships? Who will protect the weak? Who will fight to end tyranny? Who will protect the world peace?
So, know any military personnel?
I live near a major military base...what do you think?
Mass-murder is OK as long as you wear the right costume while committing it.
No, only if you attack us or innocent people.
I don't like the other two much, but it's GREAT that he's spending all that money to do something about the threat of global warming....
....that's not what you meant, is it? You mean he's spending millions to get people to ignore science and pretend nothing's wrong until the rising ocean-level reaches their lower lips.
Thats what I always found strange. He says global warming is a hoax....and then turns around and donates millions to save endangered animals and the rainforest.
If Obama's "Kenyan", O'Reilly's "Irish".
Except O'Reilly was born in America, which makes him American. And Obama is American, too. Born in Hawaii. If he wasnt, he couldnt be the president. I mean, what do you think I am? Some Tea Party Birther Conspiracy therist?
"And only the WEAK will starve to death or die of easily-treatable illnesses in the meantime!", right?
What you dont seem to understand is, I have been peppersprayed before, just so I could see what it was like. It actually wasnt that bad. Then again, I have a pretty high pain tolerance, so that might have something to do with it.
24th out of 183 is bad? Thats the top 13th Percentile. We could do better, but that is STILL PRETTY GOOD.
You know who else were lawbreakers? That's right.
The Civil Right Movement broke laws only targeting African Americans that had only existed for a short period of time. Occupy was breaking laws that apply to everyone and have been around for longer periods of time.
The reason the Occupy movement choose not to have a leader is because the people who participated had a wide range of beliefs and views and they didn't think a single person would be capable of properly enunciating them.
Every movement has had a leader even if he/she didnt speak for the majority and there was a great varity of views. So that is no excuse.
They have no leadership.
AND THAT DIDNT STRIKE THEM AS A PROBLEM?!
You're trolling aren't you?
Nope.
The simple fact that you admitted to watching that Irish fuck's show tells me you're lying.
Oh you stop that. O'Reilly may shoot his mouth off sometimes, but really his Views arnt that bad. And also, lying about what, excatly
Stop. Watching. Fox.
You know, for lulz and giggles I looked up thier demands. Start from thier offical website:
BOOM headshot65: NEVER CALL THE AMERICAN FLAG "JUST A PIECE OF CLOTH" AGAIN!!!!!!
Or what?
BOOM headshot65: Actually, yes. It is. Same with alot of people I know. If you dont like the way we do things here...theres the door. Dont let it hit you in the ass on the way out. I am sure someone from Mexico would literally give thier arm and leg to take you place.
Guess we should have just told the blacks, or the queers, or the women, or anyone else who didn't like the way we did things to just get the fuck out, eh? Surely that's easier than trying to create any kind of social change, I suppose.
BOOM headshot65: Oh yeah, I forgot, somewhere along the line it became a bad thing to say soldiers are the good guys. Plus, I am sure you still want to call me a "keyboard Kommando" because I am pro-intervention and think all dictators need to die, right?
Some soldiers, in fact I'd say most soldiers, are "the good guys." You are the one attempting to use them as a prop in your crusade against something so silly as flag burning.
Oh, and yes.
BOOM headshot65: I have spent the past FOUR FRICKING YEARS learning all I can about politics so I could be a good citizen and informed voter when I turned 18. I learned from all the sources I could, formed my own opinions, and made sure they were backed by real information.
Big fucking deal. I've been learning all I can for over two decades, and I'm sure you'll find people around here who have been doing so for much longer. Your four-year immersion into politics (which, from what I can gather, largely consists of you agreeing with whatever your parents or the cops tell you) doesn't particularly impress me. It's nice to see a young person actually give enough of a shit to pay attention; however, I certainly didn't know everything when I was 18, and neither do you.
BOOM headshot65: And then what happens when I turn 18? I get pricks like you saying I "dont know what I am talking about." THE HELL I DONT!!!
I have seen very little that indicates that you do. I see almost no understanding of the First Amendment, no understanding of the consequences of such a rabidly interventionist neoconservative foreign policy such as the one you espouse, and no understanding of the limitations of military force.
BOOM headshot65: I probly know more about afew of these positions then YOU do
Name one.
BOOM headshot65: and I am sick and tired of people saying I cant do politics because I am "too young"
I don't think it's entirely because you're too young; it's that you haven't developed the gene that allows you to even fathom challenging authority.
BOOM headshot65: I am well aware of Johnson vs. Texas. It is 1 of 3 current Supereme court cases that I cant wait for them to be overturned[1]
Also, who cares? It's a piece of cloth,
You know whats Ironic? John Paul Steven predicted that very mindset in his dissent:
"The case has nothing to do with 'disagreeable ideas.' It involves disagreeable conduct that, in my opinion, diminishes the value of an important national asset."
I personally agree with the both dissenting opinions....and while I dont like the way he voted, I agree with Kennedys Concurrence. (I usually agree with Kennedy even If I dont like the way he voted)
most likely made in China unless you buy it from a dedicated flagmaker.
Its like I always say: "When It comes to American Made, Money is no object."
And, if you want burning flags to be illegal, why not also make it illegal to wear the flag? Sure burning the flag is pretty disrespectful, but wearing it as underpants? Downright shameful.
Actually, I kind of agree with you there. No, I dont think it is disrespectful to have a tee-shirt or hat with the American flag, but there are just some lines you do not cross. That said, I still consider burning it to be more shameful. And before you try and hit me with "You burn a flag past its prime." Not around here you dont. We follow how the military does it: It is buried in a coffin the same way as a human being.
I think your militant dedication to something as frivolous as a flag is doing more to damage the integrity of America than any amount of flag burning could. If you are so insecure in your patriotism that the desecration of a simple object offends you, then perhaps you need to re-evaluate yourself a bit. The spirit of America isn't a flag. It's her people. We are the best symbol we've got, and when it comes down to it the only symbol that matters. So if you think stirring up a bunch of shit over what amounts to nothing, and saying you should make something illegal because you find it objectionable or offensive accurately represents the strong and open American spirit then keep going.
[1] All of them are 1)Roe v Wade, 2)Johnson v Texas, and 3)Citizens United v FEC
Ooh, look out ladies! Internet tough guy coming through.
Actually, yes. It is. Same with alot of people I know. If you dont like the way we do things here...theres the door. Dont let it hit you in the ass on the way out. I am sure someone from Mexico would literally give thier arm and leg to take you place.
If everyone had your attitude slavery would still be legal, women still wouldn't be allowed to vote, and I would probably be in a ghetto right now doing sewer work because a mongrel bohunk couldn't be trusted with more respectable work than that.
America is not your mommy and you are not 2 years old. You do not need to defend your country as if the opposite were true.
Plus, I am sure you still want to call me a "keyboard Kommando" because I am pro-intervention and think all dictators need to die, right?
Personally, I would call you naive and possibly a chickenhawk. As Iraq clearly demonstrated, charging into a foreign country, eradicating its government, and then squandering a decade trying to rebuild all the shit we broke is a good way to hurt your economy, destabilize a region, and worsen national security.
Moral of the story: Pick your battles with a little more scrutiny than just throwing darts at a map.
I have spent the past FOUR FRICKING YEARS learning all I can about politics so I could be a good citizen and informed voter when I turned 18. I learned from all the sources I could, formed my own opinions, and made sure they were backed by real information. And then what happens when I turn 18? I get pricks like you saying I "dont know what I am talking about." THE HELL I DONT!!! I probly know more about afew of these positions then YOU do, and I am sick and tired of people saying I cant do politics because I am "too young"
It's not your reading comprehension I question. I called you young and naive the first time because I'm 27 and have spent the entire recession struggling with the job market and you thought you could cure my ills by regurgitating platitudes at me.
No, I dont think it is disrespectful to have a tee-shirt or hat with the American flag,
What about tacky?
No, only if you attack us or innocent people.
Assuming you only hit military targets?
Some Tea Party Birther Conspiracy therist?
You're certainly yelling as much as one today.
What you dont seem to understand is, I have been peppersprayed before, just so I could see what it was like. It actually wasnt that bad.
You're either lying or you got hit with diluted weak stuff and I'm leaning on the former. Pics or it didn't happen. I've given you the benefit of the doubt in the past kid, but this is too much. If it wasn't that bad, why would the police use it? It's either strong enough to stop you from doing anything but think about the pain, or it isn't.
5 million Scoville units means that whatever hit you is one-third pure capsaicin. Capsaicin attaches itself to nerve endings and stimulates pain and heat triggers simultaneously. There are aren't a lot of chemicals that can fuck with your nerves like that. It's a bloody chemical weapon. Don't try to tell me otherwise.
Also, you conveniently ignored the other scary things I mentioned, so I'll reiterate one of them. An asthmatic person can die from inhaling the vapors from this thing. This shit can kill you, and more easily than you claim.
Every movement has had a leader even if he/she didnt speak for the majority and there was a great varity of views. So that is no excuse.
Aside from the fact that it is if you study your history, how about adding on the fact that any leaders would just get assassinated by the propaganda machine? It's actually very easy to turn the public against a movement if you attack the leader. Robert Greene, "The 48 Laws of Power," Law 42: Strike the Shepherd and the Sheep Will Scatter.
Most of those have something to do with "Evil Rich people", "Evil Corperations", "Corrupt Government".
Do you think corporations are people? Do you think that if we make the rich richer, it will make everybody richer? Do you believe lobbyists are good for the system? Do you believe corporate welfare is a good thing?
In other events that the Controlled Media don't consider news, the Police are moving from mere brutality to sexual assault on woman protestors. Such professionalism.
And one of my favorite bloggers, The Infamous Brad, points out that this is only surprising because we don't know our history.
Brad Hicks: I've been reading a lot of history lately, mostly related to the peak industrialization years of 1870 to 1950, and I'm starting to realize that there are ideas that I take for granted because of when I was born that are the product of a weird, and possibly unsustainable, anomaly in American history. Prior to the late 1950s, the idea that anything in the US Constitution, or that anything in written law anywhere, would be applied in such a way as to inconvenience a law enforcement officer who was doing his duty, was unthinkable.
And the duty of any cop or sheriff was not, prior to that time, "enforcing the law." His duty was making the complaints of land-owners and employers go away. And the main tool they had for making those complaints go away was to go to the person being complained about, tell them to stop doing whatever it is that the land-owner or employer is complaining about, and if they don't stop, hit them with a big stick. Whether what they were doing was legal or not was of no interest whatsoever to the police and sheriffs because, frankly, no court and no legislature was going to care. Any cop or sheriff who said to a land-owner or an employer, "I can't stop that person from annoying you, what they're doing is legal," was going to find himself unemployed and permanently unemployable. Land-owners and employers have always had plenty of power to make non-compliant cops' lives miserable.
The mass mobilization, and mass propaganda, that accompanied US entry into WW2, followed by the horror at the discovery of the Holocaust, left the "Greatest Generation" with a revulsion against arbitrary authority and a reverence for the rule of law that is entirely anomalous in human history. And the GI Bill made a lot of them into lawyers. As those law-school grads rose to power, from around 1955 on, they passed some really unpopular laws and some even more unpopular court rulings that can be summarized as, "I don't care what land-owners and employers want, if people aren't doing anything illegal, cops can't hit them with sticks."
A big part of what the 1980 election was about was an all-out revolt by everybody in America who owns even a tiny bit of land, or who employs even a couple of people, against those court rulings. And it's only aging liberals like me who take those court rulings as scriptural, because we were raised in the only generation of Americans who were told that "we are a nation ruled by laws, not men" isn't just an aspirational slogan, it's enforceable. Nobody before us was told this; since my generation were kids, fewer people have been told this every year. If you were born after around 1970, you were probably told what every American born before 1920 was told: if a land-owner or an employer tells a cop to stop you from doing something, the cop should pass that order along, and if you don't obey the cop, then whatever happens next is not the cop's fault or the land-owner's fault or the employer's fault, it's something you deserved for not doing what you were told.
Sigh. That whole 'democracy' thing was kind of nice while it lasted.
BOOM headshot65: EXACTLY!!!!! It is the symbol of this country, and by burning it, you are wishing ruin on this country. Oh, by the way.....NEVER CALL THE AMERICAN FLAG "JUST A PIECE OF CLOTH" AGAIN!!!!!!.
Freedom of speech, fucking deal with it. I can take the American flag and wipe my goddamn ass with it and no government official would be able to touch me.
BOOM headshot65: Actually, yes. It is. Same with alot of people I know. If you dont like the way we do things here...theres the door. Dont let it hit you in the ass on the way out. I am sure someone from Mexico would literally give thier arm and leg to take you place..
So let me get this straight. You want the country to be a particular way but some other poor bloke comes along, points out the fact that your ideas are fucking insane and does his best to remedy the situation and you reward him for that dedication by kicking him out of the country? How about you get the fuck out? You don't get to kick people out of the country just because they disagree with your views.
BOOM headshot65: Oh yeah, I forgot, somewhere along the line it became a bad thing to say soldiers are the good guys.
Soldiers aren't fucking superheroes. Stop treating them like that.
BOOM headshot65: I have spent the past FOUR FRICKING YEARS learning all I can about politics
Anything you learned about politics before you were eighteen is useless.
BOOM headshot65: so I could be a good citizen and informed voter when I turned 18.
And you're so informed that you want to increase the US's military budget.
BOOM headshot65: I am well aware of Johnson vs. Texas. It is 1 of 3 current Supereme court cases that I cant wait for them to be overturned[1]
It won't be.
BOOM headshot65: Actually, I kind of agree with you there. No, I dont think it is disrespectful to have a tee-shirt or hat with the American flag, but there are just some lines you do not cross. That said, I still consider burning it to be more shameful. And before you try and hit me with "You burn a flag past its prime." Not around here you dont. We follow how the military does it: It is buried in a coffin the same way as a human being.
You worship a fucking object. Doesn't that seem downright disturbing to you?
You're like Bush. You believe your own propaganda.
BOOM headshot65: Except O'Reilly was born in America, which makes him American.
And O'Reilly is an Irish name which means he had Irish ancestors.
BOOM headshot65: What you dont seem to understand is, I have been peppersprayed before, just so I could see what it was like. It actually wasnt that bad. Then again, I have a pretty high pain tolerance, so that might have something to do with it.
lol
BOOM headshot65: 24th out of 183 is bad? Thats the top 13th Percentile. We could do better, but that is STILL PRETTY GOOD.
Are you fucking kidding me? It's fucking disgraceful.
BOOM headshot65: The Civil Right Movement broke laws only targeting African Americans that had only existed for a short period of time. Occupy was breaking laws that apply to everyone and have been around for longer periods of time.
They squatted in a park for a couple of days. CALL THE FUCKING NATIONAL GUARD!
BOOM headshot65: Every movement has had a leader even if he/she didnt speak for the majority and there was a great varity of views. So that is no excuse.
Excuse for what? They CHOOSE not to have a leader because they believed each person should have a voice. God you're thick.
BOOM headshot65: Oh you stop that. O'Reilly may shoot his mouth off sometimes, but really his Views arnt that bad. And also, lying about what, excatly
He's a fucking disgrace to television.
BOOM headshot65: Most of those have something to do with "Evil Rich people", "Evil Corperations", "Corrupt Government".
You could, you know, actually read those demands. I heard reading is cool.
Actually, yes. It is. Same with alot of people I know. If you dont like the way we do things here...theres the door.
Um, dood, the way we do things here? It wasn't engraved on stone tablets by the flaming finger of God Himself, it was thought up by human beings, a lot of whom were stupid or greedy or both. As such, it can be CHANGED, and possibly even improved in ways beyond "turning this country into the TV's version of the 1950s".
BOOM headshot65: Oh yeah, I forgot, somewhere along the line it became a bad thing to say soldiers are the good guys. Plus, I am sure you still want to call me a "keyboard Kommando" because I am pro-intervention and think all dictators need to die, right?
Because you're pro-war AND anti-putting-your-own-delicate-carcass-in-harm's-way, actually. People who are IN the military and beat the war-drums get somewhat less scorn.
I have spent the past FOUR FRICKING YEARS learning all I can about politics so I could be a good citizen and informed voter when I turned 18. I learned from all the sources I could, formed my own opinions, and made sure they were backed by real information. And then what happens when I turn 18? I get pricks like you saying I "dont know what I am talking about." THE HELL I DONT!!! I probly know more about afew of these positions then YOU do, and I am sick and tired of people saying I cant do politics because I am "too young"
You're not too young, you're just woefully misinformed. That's because you have spent your life marinading in bullshit carefully manufactured by highly-trained professionals.
While I'd rather leave this between you and Tyler Perry, I would like to point out that in the Supreme Court case Texas v. Johnson of 1989 it was ruled that flag burning is covered under free speech.
I am well aware of Johnson vs. Texas. It is 1 of 3 current Supereme court cases that I cant wait for them to be overturned[1]
[cheapshot] What, not Brown v. Board of Education? [/cheapshot]
We don't 'have' to, our leaders have just decided that's the best way to maintain our global hegemony.
Alrighty then, tell me...who will keep the pirates in Africa from highjacking ships? Who will protect the weak? Who will fight to end tyranny? Who will protect the world peace?
Mass-murder is OK as long as you wear the right costume while committing it.
No, only if you attack us or innocent people.
Lol. What makes 'us' so great? (And apparently, blowing up civilians is PERFECTLY OKAY if they happen to be within the blast radius of a Bad Person....)
BOOM headshot65: Except O'Reilly was born in America, which makes him American. And Obama is American, too. Born in Hawaii. If he wasnt, he couldnt be the president. I mean, what do you think I am? Some Tea Party Birther Conspiracy therist?
Considering how much rightwing gibberish your retransmit, yeah, I kinda do.
Ah, Charity, aka "let's replace programs that work with MAGIC!". The reason we HAVE the modern Welfare State is because we tried letting the Poor depend purely on Charity, and IT DIDN'T WORK. You claim you want to be well-informed, read some history. You could start with the Gilded Age the politicians you idolize seem to be trying to drag this country back into.
BOOM headshot65: The Civil Right Movement broke laws only targeting African Americans that had only existed for a short period of time. Occupy was breaking laws that apply to everyone and have been around for longer periods of time.
Using that 'logic', the cops who beat up the early Suffragettes were PERFECTLY JUSTIFIED, right? After all, men have been oppressing women for so long, it gets the imprimatur of Tradition. :-P
The reason the Occupy movement choose not to have a leader is because the people who participated had a wide range of beliefs and views and they didn't think a single person would be capable of properly enunciating them.
Every movement has had a leader even if he/she didnt speak for the majority and there was a great varity of views. So that is no excuse.
"Excuse, me, Occupy? Could you please get a leader we can disgrace, buy out, or assassinate? Thanks!"
Most of those have something to do with "Evil Rich people", "Evil Corperations", "Corrupt Government".
And you don't think this are things that exist? If they don't, then it's like making leash laws for unicorn owners - what harm will it do?
And the current financial clusterfuck CAN be traced directly back to the repeal of Glass-Stegall, under the most successful Republican President of my lifetime, Bill Clinton.
[1] All of them are 1)Roe v Wade, 2)Johnson v Texas, and 3)Citizens United v FEC
Most of those have something to do with "Evil Rich people", "Evil Corperations", "Corrupt Government".
Do you think corporations are people? Do you think that if we make the rich richer, it will make everybody richer? Do you believe lobbyists are good for the system? Do you believe corporate welfare is a good thing?
Whya re you asking him questions you already know the answers to?
I think your militant dedication to something as frivolous as a flag is doing more to damage the integrity of America than any amount of flag burning could.
THE FLAG IS NOT FRIVOLOUS!! It is a symbol of this nation and of freedom and will be treated as such! I'm sorry, But this is where I draw the line!
The spirit of America isn't a flag. It's her people. We are the best symbol we've got, and when it comes down to it the only symbol that matters.
I will agree there, but we can have more than one symbol. I, personally believe we have 3: The Flag, The Bald Eagle, and the people.
So if you think stirring up a bunch of shit over what amounts to nothing, and saying you should make something illegal because you find it objectionable or offensive accurately represents the strong and open American spirit then keep going.
A story my friend told me about from when she lived in Tennessee.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
And, in continuing with my agreement with the Dissent in Texas vs Johnson, I actually DONT think that flag burning is "speech". As Rehnquist put it, it is "the equivalent of an inarticulate grunt or roar that, it seems fair to say, is most likely to be indulged in not to express any particular idea, but to antagonize others."
That said, there is one form of flag desecration I am ok with: Flying it upside down. Because that is an internationally recognized signal for help or an emergancy. If someone was to protest and fly the flag upside down, I may or may not agree with them, but they will at least get my respect. However, If they burn the flag....
If everyone had your attitude slavery would still be legal, women still wouldn't be allowed to vote, and I would probably be in a ghetto right now doing sewer work because a mongrel bohunk couldn't be trusted with more respectable work than that.
You make the mistake that I am against social change. Im not. I just prefer that people work with the system and stay within the laws (unless they target only one group of people) to bring about this change.
Personally, I would call you naive and possibly a chickenhawk. As Iraq clearly demonstrated, charging into a foreign country, eradicating its government, and then squandering a decade trying to rebuild all the shit we broke is a good way to hurt your economy, destabilize a region, and worsen national security.
Moral of the story: Pick your battles with a little more scrutiny than just throwing darts at a map.
Except most of the soldiers I have talked to, retired, serving, or in training TO serve, have all said they approve of us going into Iraq, even if it turned out the whole "WMDs Threat" didnt exist. Heck, even the one who lost his arm when his Bradley got hit with an RPG believes we were doing good there and said he would go again if he had too.
What about tacky?
What about Patriotic?
Assuming you only hit military targets?
Id have thought that went without saying. Yes, it is impossible to avoid ALL civilian casualties (especially when your enemies use civies as human shields), but I think that we have done all we can to minimize civilian casualties with the current technology. Now, when we get lasers that can fry a mans hair off without killing him...
You're either lying or you got hit with diluted weak stuff and I'm leaning on the former. Pics or it didn't happen.
Well, then I guess it never happened, as I have no pictures. The police were doing training and needed volunteers from the community, and I wanted to help.
Aside from the fact that it is if you study your history, how about adding on the fact that any leaders would just get assassinated by the propaganda machine?
For the love of God...Assassination?! You are treating it like we are on the verge of civil war! We are NO WHERE CLOSE to being that bad off. Plus, the movement could turn him/her into a martyr and become stronger from it.
Do you think corporations are people? Do you think that if we make the rich richer, it will make everybody richer? Do you believe lobbyists are good for the system? Do you believe corporate welfare is a good thing?
To answer those in order:
Yes, because it prevents double taxation and actually makes things easier on consumers in someways...Yes, but I prefer that they make that money thourgh 100% legal means, or else they get arrested for breaking the law, and if extreme enough loss their business...Yes, they can be, but as it stands now, they are a liability. We just need to turn them into assests...No. The only businesses that should recieve anything like "welfare" should be new businesses that are just starting up. If you are a multi-billion dollar, international conglomerate, you dont need tax cuts.
I dont totally disagree with Occupy, heck I acutally agree with them on their list of demands numbers 1, 2, 3, half of 4[1], and 9. I just dont approve of the way they went about thier protest and the fact that they say ALL rich people and ALL corporations are somehow "bad." If they said "The ones who broke existing laws are bad" I would have MUCH less problems with them.
Because you're pro-war AND anti-putting-your-own-delicate-carcass-in-harm's-way, actually. People who are IN the military and beat the war-drums get somewhat less scorn.
So me sharing the same views as soldiers is a bad thing, even when some of them are in my family?
[cheapshot] What, not Brown v. Board of Education? [/cheapshot]
What?? That was a good ruling. I am actually more suprised you didnt say something along the lines of "I am a horrible Republican because I am betraying my 'corporate masters' by wanting Citizens United overturned" or some bull like that.
FREE MARKET!!!@!!two!
Unless that means that Cargo Ships can carry thier own guns and artillery, we will still need SOMEONES navy to guard the sealanes from pirates.
And apparently, blowing up civilians is PERFECTLY OKAY if they happen to be within the blast radius of a Bad Person....
No, it is bad to attack civies PERIOD. But it is less of a bad thing when it is because your enemies are using them as human shields, because that is not our fault, its thiers.
Considering how much rightwing gibberish your retransmit, yeah, I kinda do.
Except That I dislike the Tea Party too. The only reason they arnt on the same level as Occupy though is because at least they followed the law when they protested.
Ah, Charity, aka "let's replace programs that work with MAGIC!". The reason we HAVE the modern Welfare State is because we tried letting the Poor depend purely on Charity, and IT DIDN'T WORK.
I am not saying that Charity does EVERYTHING, just that they work together with the government to get things done. Or even better, the government gives THEM money and THEY do the job, because being more localized increases effieciency.
You could start with the Gilded Age the politicians you idolize seem to be trying to drag this country back into.
....Except Republicans dont "Idolize" the Gilded Age and I only LikeAFew people from that time period.
Using that 'logic', the cops who beat up the early Suffragettes were PERFECTLY JUSTIFIED, right? After all, men have been oppressing women for so long, it gets the imprimatur of Tradition. :-P
No because they only broke laws targeted at women, AND worked with the system to make the change.
"Excuse, me, Occupy? Could you please get a leader we can disgrace, buy out, or assassinate? Thanks!"
If they are truely loyal, they would not care what people say about thier leader, If he/she really believed in thier cause, they cant be bought out, and if they were assassinated, they would become a martyr and make the cause stronger.
No, it was a SOLUTION. Just look what happened to King and Gandhi.
Two people who were killed and then shortly after that they atchieved the goal they were striving for because people started listening?
Hell, look what happened to Abbie Hoffman.
A guy advocating robbery and starting riots frequently? GO COPS!
And you don't think this are things that exist? If they don't, then it's like making leash laws for unicorn owners - what harm will it do?
Because, they could affect businesses in a negative way that would make it hard to keep them going or eat up vital profits that are used for hiring and expansion.
And the current financial clusterfuck CAN be traced directly back to the repeal of Glass-Stegall,
Which I want re-instated, thank you very much.
under the most successful Republican President of my lifetime, Bill Clinton.
Clinton....Republican....
Let me ask you a question...PHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9nbGl0dGVyYW5kZ2FyYi5jb20vd3AtY29udGVudC91cGxvYWRzLzIwMTEvMTIvYXJlLXlvdS1pbnNhbmUuanBnIiBhbHQ9ImltYWdlIi8+PC9wPg==
[1] Namely, get rid of loopholes, although I would like to extend that to ALL loopholes except for morgages and charitable givings, rather than JUST corporate loopholes, and making off-shore funds illegal. The Buffett rule is nothing but a paper-tiger, ESPECIALLY if we get rid of the loopholes.
BOOM headshot65: You make the mistake that I am against social change. Im not. I just prefer that people work with the system and stay within the laws (unless they target only one group of people) to bring about this change.
And protesting is the wrong way to go about this?
Except most of the soldiers I have talked to, retired, serving, or in training TO serve, have all said they approve of us going into Iraq, even if it turned out the whole "WMDs Threat" didnt exist. Heck, even the one who lost his arm when his Bradley got hit with an RPG believes we were doing good there and said he would go again if he had too.
Two things. First off, I've talked to veterans who refuse to go back and think the war was started on bullshit pretenses so some neo-con assholes could practice a little nation building.
Second, how does that in any way change the fact that the whole thing has been a disaster?
What about Patriotic?
I prefer to express my love of my country through action rather than dressing myself in garish bullshit like I've gone colorblind and lost all aesthetic sense.
So am I, but I don't scream at people for disagreeing with me.
Well, then I guess it never happened, as I have no pictures. The police were doing training and needed volunteers from the community, and I wanted to help.
Asthmatic people can die from exposure to the fumes from this stuff. What part of that isn't sinking in? What about the reports of police holding people down and spraying this shit into their mouths, which can cause nasty respiratory system damage?
Again, this isn't a spray bottle you use on your cat to teach him not to claw the furniture. It's a weapon designed to put you down for the count and it uses chemicals that don't play nice with human physiology.
For the love of God...Assassination?! You are treating it like we are on the verge of civil war! We are NO WHERE CLOSE to being that bad off. Plus, the movement could turn him/her into a martyr and become stronger from it.
Character assassination, kiddo.
Do you think corporations are people? Do you think that if we make the rich richer, it will make everybody richer? Do you believe lobbyists are good for the system? Do you believe corporate welfare is a good thing?
To answer those in order:
Yes, because it prevents double taxation and actually makes things easier on consumers in someways...
What ways? And how is an abstract entity a person?
Yes, but I prefer that they make that money thourgh 100% legal means, or else they get arrested for breaking the law, and if extreme enough loss their business...
Were you paying attention when every credible economist agreed that Reaganomics was fucking bullshit and that you should be strengthening the middle class instead?
Yes, they can be, but as it stands now, they are a liability. We just need to turn them into assests...
Or maybe we could stop putting so much damn money into politics. Crazy idea, I know, but I think it's worth looking into.
No. The only businesses that should recieve anything like "welfare" should be new businesses that are just starting up. If you are a multi-billion dollar, international conglomerate, you dont need tax cuts.
Then why are you voting for Republicans?
I just dont approve of the way they went about thier protest and the fact that they say ALL rich people and ALL corporations are somehow "bad." If they said "The ones who broke existing laws are bad" I would have MUCH less problems with them.
They don't and not all rich people have to break the law to do something unethical. A lot of them are making craploads of money doing ethically dubious things that are still perfectly legal. We have a number of laws now because some asshole used his money and power to hurt people and everyone else said, "Wow, that was a dick move and there should be some kind of law against that."
DrVornoff: And protesting is the wrong way to go about this?
While I'm not getting into the entire debate, this one thing stood out. OWS around here has been the exclusive domain of squatters. Squatters steal other people's property for their own selfish gain.
When those people protest the distribution of wealth and accuse 'the bankers' of stealing, it's really hard not to shake your head and think "are these guys even serious?". Well, so much for the Dutch branch of OWS eh?
Protesting is nice and all, but sometimes you can end up throwing bricks through your own windows.
For instance I was involved in multiple secondary school protests against reforms in education which we thought lowered quality. Except a bunch of idiots and some football hooligans turned every major protest of those into a riot. Conclusion: if we had been cleverer, we would've found alternate means of protest, or at least openly denounced the riots. But as much as I hate to admit it, most kids there thought having a riot was fun and joined in rather than trying to separate themselves. When I went home hours ahead of the demonstration schedule, the train was packed with pupils who like me had left because the protest had turned sour.
Unsurprisingly the protests weren't taken seriously at all by the government at the time and it would take years for changes to be made to the initial plans, and the changes made were exactly the demands at the time. Some of the problems (like keeping students in class without a teacher to reach the minimum number of hours of lessons) are still not solved.
How you protest something matters, and no matter whether one agrees with or opposes them, it has to be said that OWS as a movement has been doing a pretty crappy job at protesting.
All the time, you preach submission to authority. Do whatever the cops, government or military say.
No, I just tell people to follow the rules.
....how is your head not constantly exploding from cognitive dissonance when you say things like this?
Also:
I have spent the past FOUR FRICKING YEARS learning all I can about politics so I could be a good citizen and informed voter when I turned 18.
That's nice. I've been at it for over two decades now, and I'm here to tell you that your political opinions are deeply, deeply contaminated by your simplistic, absolutist, and authoritarian worldview. Seeing some of the wider world would probably do you a tremendous amount of good.
You seem to be unable to understand that the protesters were non-violent which makes the use of a pepper spray completely unwarranted.
http://www.globalintegrity.org/report/methodology/misconceptions
Plus you guys DID legalize bribery so, whatever.
Really? Permission from the government to protest the government? You see nothing wrong with that?
Those traitorous fucks! How DARE they burn our flag! EXECUTE THEM!
PROTESTS MUST BE CONTAINED AND DONE IN AREAS WHERE PEOPLE CAN IGNORE THEM! IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE ACTUAL CHANGE!
Dont bring up Occupy Oakland or the like. They were with the rioting separatist movement, NOT Occupy.
My sarcasm meter is going off the charts!
And in what way were they not "prepared" to be arrested? Because they protested those arrests? Because they refused to get arrested for doing nothing violent? You talk as if what the police did to the Civil Rights movement was A-OK and that instead of trying to fight police brutality protesters should "be prepared" to die.
I'm sure throughout the entirety of the Civil Rights movement no one ever, and I mean EVER, swore at the police. Actually, now that I thought about it, you're right. Getting run over, sprayed with pepper spray, and being beaten is not grounds for "bad mouthing" the police. In fact, how dare those dirty hippies talk bad about our boys? THEY SHOULD BE THROWN IN JAIL!
You seem to be missing the point, again.
That's not the fucking point Jesus fucking Christ.
You mean like those good and honest Wall Street Businessmen or those gosh darn Banks who care so much about the safety and welfare of your cash!
Again, missing the point.