The zeitgeist movement Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT | |
The Zeitgeist movement is the product of misinformed idealists that have a lofty dream in mind, but no way to actually reach it. They remind me of people planning out creating a colony on a planet 200 lightyears away, who forgot to first figure out how the hell they're going to get there in the first place, or even to ask whether the trip was possible at all. | |
Zeitgeist, zeitgeist...I've heard that word before. I think they fit in the "NWO/Illuminati/groups that people obsessively talk about but don't ever seem to get stuff done" area of my brain. Let's see, I need to learn about this some more. Well Wikipedia doesn't hold many conclusions, except that they are for a resource-based economy rather than a monetary-based one, which is kind of hilarious. I see a couple of movies listed there too, but I don't really have time to sit down and watch them. Let's see, that second one actually has a summary...so much psychological and philosophical fluff in there...ah, there we go, the third part is more of a call to action. There's that resource-based economy again. Is that really the biggest thing about Zeitgeist, the resource-based economy? Good Lord. Well, if you're asking us how a resource-based economy would fit into the video games market...I think it wouldn't. Money assures a standard exchange rate. Plus, how would you even trade with objects online or overseas? Use a shipping company to ship your payment? Then you'd just have to ship more stuff to the shipping company as payment for your original shipment. Then if they aren't shipping your shipping payment, you've got to pay somebody else to ship that...good Lord. No, nonononono. No. Fuck no. A resource-based economy in this day and age is unfeasible and ridiculous. Also, if I have any of this wrong somebody feel free to correct me. | |
their idea of a "resource based economy" is actually a post scarcity economy. they believe that with current technology and future advances we can manufacture everything human beings need. sounds very idealistic on paper but its never been tested out ever and ignores so much real scientific and economical research that its fucking idiotic. it is basically a pure communist society with a heavy stance on technology. the zeit geist movement was originally about "waking" people up and tried (very poorly by the way) to sway people to atheism and to try and to get people to believe in their economy plan. the attacks on religion were poor and very misinformed trying to compare many ancient pagan style religions with christianity, specifically the resurrection but it was all made up bull shit that was disproven by millions of people with a quick google search. so the second movie ignored religion (since the guy doesn't know shit) and introduced the biggest scam called the venus project. the venus project is a movement that openly ask for donations so that they can start up a post scarcity area. but i would rather throw my money in a trash can since its the same result. | |
Nothing turns me off of a movement more than the notion that people who aren't in it need to be "woken up". It takes a special type of arrogance to not just refuse to accept that people have good reasons for not agreeing with you, but that your position is so self-evident that the only way someone could disagree with it was if they were unaware of reality in general. | |
Ah, okay. I think I have heard of this, then. Really? A world where machines can produce EVERYTHING we need, without us EVER having to feed or maintain the machines themselves? Who could buy into that? Yes, humans are awesome and all, but nothing is infinite and we will always have to work to maintain a certain standard of living. | |
you seem very unclear on how a resource based economy works. | |
You know, these low-content posts aren't making your case for you, johnstamos. Here's an idea for you: How about instead of demanding people watch something as a prerequisite for doing what you freaking asked them to do, you put in a basic effort to explain your position, citing sources as appropriate? | |
Please, as a fellow human being, stop that particular crap The movie in question explains next to nothing, is dead wrong on most of the points it brings up, and ends up being nothing more than a rambling waste of time. The rest of us have better things to do than watch that particular piece of mental torture, AGAIN. If you want to advocate a movement, referring us to an extra long movie is worse than inadequate, it is counterproductive. Do your own research and present your own arguments, if you need to cite a source for extra details, that is fine, but it needs to be an addendum to your post, not the primary content. | |
I did, it's useless. Not as bad as the first movie, but still terrible. | |
This is because millions of people live their lives totally attached to a failing system that constantly exploits them. It is not arrogance on our part, it's confidence in the face of your ignorance. | |
That would only work if the Zeitgeist movement has anything to say more productive than "this is f***ed up". Every last one of us is aware that the current system is flawed. We aren't "attached" to it out of ignorance, but because nothing better is currently achievable. P.S. Arrogance: an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in | |
Oh, my ignorance is it? Well, after that personal insult, I must say you have successfully convinced me to join your cause. Get me a T-shirt and sign me up for Zeitgeist Monthly. I'll be sure to bring my best dessert for the annual Zeitgeist potluck. Seriously. First of all, if the "failing system" you are referring to is the monetary-based economy, then I think your numbers a bit off. It isn't "millions" of people who are attached to the system. It's billions. About seven billion to be exact at this point. Secondly, if you think there's so much to this idea, then tell me how it will work. Tell me EXACTLY how it will work. Because if you are so dedicated to this cause then obviously you see a pretty clear picture of how it's supposed to work. Otherwise, what are you believing in? So tell me how we're going to beat scarcity. Tell me how machines (which somehow never require maintenance, expansion, management, or updating) are going to give us everything we need and everything we will ever want. Tell me where all that fuel and technology will come from, and tell me what happens if it all breaks down. Because if something goes wrong somebody is going to need to know what's going on, meaning somebody is going to have to work to fix what's wrong. And don't tell me we've worked beyond errors into perfection, because there is no way that will happen. Nothing in reality is perfect, and nothing in reality ever can be perfect. We are humans, we are inherently imperfect. | |
Simply amazing how attached people are to their failure of a system. | |
Yes, because everyone else is an ignorant idiot that just LOVES war, poverty and hunger, and it has nothing to do with the fact that such societies have been dreamed of before, and every last attempt to achieve it has failed to date. If you want to change the world, present ideas and plans that WORK rather than just complaining about the system currently available. There's a reason the Zeitgeist movement has been rejected by nearly every segment of society. Here's a hint, it isn't because we didn't think those picture perfect future cities looked like a nice place to live. | |
Scarcity is an illusion created by a monetary system, resource based economy does not mean a barter system. Solar,wind,and geothermal energy can power the world far beyond coal and fossil fuels, but because of the monetary system will not be fully utilized. And to live in such a "idealistic communist" society as so many people are attached to the idea of, I and thousands of others would gladly learn how to repair the machinery used to build our society. For a website devoted to video gaming, i really expected a lot more people with hope in science and technology. | |
What you've got here are a lot of people that actually know what technology can and cannot do. Unless an efficient means of recombinant energy tech is discovered (Star Trek's replicators would be an example), unlimited resource production falls firmly in the second category, among the things technology CANNOT be expected to provide. Scarcity is in and of itself not an illusion, resources are finite, both in terms of being able to physically access them, and in terms of there being only a set amount available. So let me ask you this, when talking about a system that can only work using tech only seen in science fiction, and that we have no evidence to suspect is actually physically possible on the scale we need, does skepticism imply a lack of hope, or realism? | |
to answer the OP's last question. the zeitgeist movement would stagnate the video game market. all companys would have equal money to produce, publish and develop a game resulting in a very real barrier of quality. this would in turn make the video games eventually just become the same the crap year after year with little to no new ideas. because simply living in a society where competition, jealousy, and want are removed so are the elements of risk, innovation, happiness and joy. | |
But then I read more and then... But seeing as how your serious in your convictions... But maybe I have you all wrong. Please explain to me in exact detail how you would utilize the zeitgeist movement to create a better world. Oh and don't leave out any details. Seriously, I want to know how you plan to execute such a monumentally large task. | |
What about crime? You will never, EVER get all of society to voluntarily submit to one single idea. Humanity will never outgrow this while we are humans. I don't care what sort of existential crap you give me, unless we resort to mind control people will not conform to a single ideal. There is not a single question you can ask everybody in the world and get the same answer. Even if they are wrong or disagree with what they are saying, people will not conform for the sake of not conforming. If you ask what 2 + 2 is, some smartass is going to say five or fish just to be obnoxious, even though the answer of 2 + 2 is absolute and an undeniable fact. And if you push the issue hard enough, some people will gather together an make a group dedicated to always maintaining that 2 + 2 does not equal whatever the rest of the world says it equals. So, there are people out there who will be dedicated to screwing with they system. Even if the system is absolutely perfect in every way, people will want to ruin it just because. Even if they have lived ideal lives and rebelling would destroy that ideal life. You will never convince them that they shouldn't do it. These people will have to be dealt with somehow. Do you have an automatic system for that, too? God that's a horrific science fiction movie waiting to happen. 2001 A Space Odyssey, anyone? Nobody will ever trust a system rigged to automatically punish people for suspect behavior. That isn't idealistic, that's insane, and a genocide waiting to happen. So the only way to deal with that is people. So there's some more people, working to make the world a better place. And then you need some more people to make sure they are doing everything right, so you need some more people in another branch of authority to manage them and keep them in check, ready to punish them if they use their powers incorrectly. And so on and so forth. Eventually you've got just about every job that existed in the previous society needing to be filled, and no guarantee that you will always have an adequate number of volunteers to fill all the positions. I mean, you promised an ideal life with no worries or roles you are required to take. You shouldn't plan for people to not take you up on that offer. Like, a LOT of people. Ever hear of the bystander effect? When you've got a lot of people in an area, people are more likely to figure "Eh, somebody else will take care of that." Even if the situation is something as immediate as somebody flying face down on pavement, people will still pass by figuring that somebody else has it under control. How do you make sure society doesn't do the same thing? Not everybody HAS to, and even those who sort of want to don't bother because they figure there are enough people out there to do the job. You can't build something perfect based on assumptions. And lastly, you didn't answer my original question. Tell me how the rest will work, EXACTLY how it will work. Where's the fuel for all this come from? Where do the raw materials come from? How do we deal with waste? Does everybody really get anything that they want? If so, what happens if somebody wants a planet, or to build an artificial one? Or to build a billion artificial ones? In an ideal society based on giving people all they desire for the sake of fulfilling the ambitions of humanity, who are we to say somebody's ambition is not worth it? Do we just hand over all that raw material, or deny them? What happens if it serves to detriment the rest of society? I need convincing of all this, so get cracking. | |
Your desire to have 1 person describe an entirely new society to you is utterly hilarious. http://www.trueactivist.com/gab_gallery/mythbusters-banned-from-talking-about-rfid/ have fun with your police state. | |
Your dedication to a concept which you clearly do not understand, or even care enough about to defend, is saddening. I asked you for clear answers, I gave you a blueprint for convincing me that this is worth investing in, and you won't do it. Come on, if you care so much about this then answer me. Prove to me this can be done. | |
I'm still waiting for you to give me a greatly detailed plan on how you intended to transform society. | |
well the whole thing does raise an eye brow but im not going to dismiss it outright. however until they manage to put together a functional society of a few thousand people for say 5 years and it thrives im going to be very wary of it. it needs testing to see if its feasable. captcha: watch out .apparently captcha is worried for my safety in making this statement | |
It appears that you're here to wank about how great you think you are and spit on people who don't just take you at your word for how great you are. Some might call that trolling. | |
Yes, anyone who does not immediately buy every word in some shittily-made youtube videos is clearly a supporter of war, hunger and the police state. There's no better way to influence people to give your cause credence by referring to them, essentially, as ignorant sheeple for not enjoying the smell of your own farts as much as you apparently do. | |
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/ I watched the video about a year ago. I thought it was really interesting. However, as a rather skilled manipulator myself I know that the best lies are sprinkled with truths. Ultimately I think that the zeitgeist movement is a naive and worst of all based on a clever deception. And I am often called a conspiracy theorist. | |
So, to sum up, the zeitgeist is the belief that technology can solve all mankind's problems and everyone else is stupid? Or if there's more to it than that, the OP might want to mention it. | |
Looking at those various topics about those few internet videos, it also seems pretty consistent that when someone questions it, the fan who put it forward gets all arrogant and offensive and goes all "No you're wrong, you just need to watch this other vague internet vid and you'll understand everything". Please don't be that arrogant, there's no point, I'm the only one who's always right about everything. | |
Aren't they those completely uninformed guys making various claims about religion, politics and economy? Yeah, not in favour. Hell, they set back Atheistic argumentation quite a bit with their badly researched info. | |
At first I was like Now I'm like But I'm also like I would like to thank the OP for giving me a chance to use these macros again.
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I have read through this entire thread and I still have yet to figure out what this "Zeetjizz" crap is anyway. | |
Officially pronounced like "zite guyst" (hard I sound in both), its a borrowed German word meaning "spirit of the times" The concept in this case involves a hyper-advanced society in which humanity has outgrown the need to compete for resources. It theorizes that once all material needs and wants are provided for, criminal actions will simply disappear and all the rest of us get to live in perfect harmony. The problem is that even if all of human woes were based on greed and could be solved simply by providing massive quantities of resources (a premise that I and many others find extremely questionable, although I must admit it would certainly help with quite a few issues), the Zeitgeist movement fails one very important requirement, they don't have a clue how to actually achieve this dream, or where the functionally unlimited resources in question will actually come from, and don't want to admit it. At the moment, it is nothing more than science fiction that some people are still advocating as present day fact. In fact, I wonder from time to time if the founders of the movement just fell in love with the society described by the tv show Star Trek, forgetting that it relies on tech that we will probably never be able to duplicate. | |
Cool story, who's going to conduct all the R&D of improved renewable technology, and who's going to build it?
Post-scarcity is largely already here in Western nations. This is particularly true of art, literature, software, or anything that can be copied. We still end up rewarding our artists with money. Basically, Zeitgeist is saying a lot of stuff, but has laid out no way whatsoever to actually get there. Meanwhile, the real world is ploughing on & making actual progress on this front. | |
The main thing that a resource based economy doesn't factor in is very simple. Humans are humans... with desires, fears, greed, impulses, passions, and vices. without being able to take advantage of this (like a monetary society does) people can not and will not conform. People need sleaze, you can't have good without bad. Not to mention there are probably too many people in the world for this to work everywhere. The long and short of it, is that people respond to incentives far more than disincentives. what are the incentives of this economy once we start living in it? | |
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Dear escapists,
I usually keep to myself about religion and politics, but this is something important.
What are your thoughts on the Zeitgeist movement and similar projects and ideologies, and on a side note how you believe they would impact the video game industry