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What was that term Yahtzee used? Lemon-scented knee-jerk pussy wipe? Seems rather appropriate here.
World War II and the attrocities committed by the Third Reich of Nazi Germany were fucking awful; aside from crazy people you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who disagrees. However, you would do well to remember that the Jews were not the only victims of the Holocaust. Homosexuals, gypsies, the mentally handicapped and scores of others were murdered by the death camps although the Jews made up the largest single majority at six million souls.
And really, take a trip over to Palestine or Iran if you want to see what real Anti-Semitism looks like.
Look, I'm an advocate of hatespeech laws, but I think you may have lost the point here.
Firstly (with the possible exception of in Germany) it's not illegal to compare yourself to Hitler, to say that Hitler was right, that Hitler was an all round good guy, whatever, and even if it was Jim Sterling said none of those things.
I don't know, maybe this is a particularly British thing, but it was a fairly standard joke. The point you should take away is not "wow, Jim is right, Hitler was great and being compared to him is a good thing" but "lol, imagine if someone actually compared themselves to Hitler.. how awkward would that be!"
As for Andy Chalk's post, click the link. He was not seriously describing the queen of England as a Jewish lizard, he was taking the piss out of conspiracy theorists, who have a history of believing, among other things, that the world is secretly controlled by Jews and/or lizard people.
As mentioned, hatespeech laws don't exist for America, but even if they did under the normal model of hatespeech laws neither of these events would count. I don't think either of these people intended to threaten or even to insult anyone, and I don't think it's the case that any reasonable person would conclude that insult was an inevitable consequence of what they wrote.
But ultimately, I heard this same argument in a gaming magazine back when Wolfenstein 3D came out. "How dare they make anything to do with the nazis fun, it's an insult to all the people who died". Wolfenstein 3D was not banned, and went on to change the face of video games for ever. I think that speaks for the public consensus.
I'm not saying "get over it". Hell no. If you find something offensive, get angry about it and ignore the privileged douches telling you to get over it. But this is not a clear cut situation, and I don't agree that this is offensive enough to warrant action.
evilthecat: (with the possible exception of in Germany)
Even in Germany, you can talk about Hitler and Nazism unless you try to glorify them or deny the Holocaust or similar (so, arguably, some of the things you said after my snip would be out of bounds). This is due to Germany now being a militant democracy that does not allow for anti-democratic propaganda and influences. If you check on YouTube or wherever, you will find tons of German-made Hitler/Nazi comedy, including stuff that aired on national TV. Some people outside Germany seem to think that nobody in Germany ever mentions Hitler and the Nazis, nothing could be further from the truth, both in education and in pop culture.
Now, I didn't see the video in question and I don't plan on watching it because I have no interest in Jim Sterling's videos, but the above point was made as a rather general response anyway.
And by things, I mean good humour and honest debates.
...oh wait, we totally can, since OP is the work of a hyperbolic hypersensitive grammar subject Nazi who seem to love censorship as much as Goebbels ever did, free of any knowledge on reasonable standards for offence or on US jurisprudence. Go right ahead and sue against that satirical freedom of the press, m'boy, and do be sure to spend your entire life savings on it.
Never change, US law. Go die in your own fires of oppressive censorship, EU law.
Jewish Lizard-Woman is a reference to the crackpot moronicism of one David Icke. Read up on him, then perhaps you'll stop taking references that other people make to other things, so personally.
aceman67: And millions more died trying to end the threat the Nazi's posed.
Making light of any of the above would give people very strong backing should they level a lawsuit against this site and its owners, Themis Media, since they would be held accountable to Hate Speech laws on the books in the US.
A few matters:
The US hatespeech laws are few and far between and enforced very inconsistently. For instance if the site's owners claim to be religious, I wish anyone best of luck trying to press hatespeech charges. Basically if you're religious, any form of insult is allowed, no matter how crude or offending. Religious privilege reigns supreme, even if at the same time the US is horridly politally-correct.
Even among much more consistent freedom of speech restrictions it stands no chance to claim there's anything wrong. Speaking from the Dutch legal system with which I am familiar, there'd be nobody seeing anything anti-semitic in it. It's a weird term without context, except it's a hyperlink. If clicked, said link would reveal the website of what looks like a crazed conspiracy theorist, among whom anti-semitism occurs quite often. The context there is to make fun of how silly said conspiracy theorist is.
It's the same as writing about US conservatives, and referring to democrats as 'those satan-worshipping, baby-eating, heart bleedin' liberals'. If you said that, nobody would think you're actually accusing democrats of eating babies, but are making fun of the hostility complex that exists in US politics.
As for Sterlin, I've not seen that, but wherever you're from, in many places saying Hitler is quite accepted as a metaphor. For instance I've talked to a former missionary who's now pretty old and used to go abroad but now left religion and quite regets his past, and he described his activities as "Driving up to some village, climbing on the hood of your car and screaming like some sort of Hitler. They don't understand you, but that doesn't matter. If you keep on long enough they'll start reading the bibles you give them". There referring to Hitler is a metaphor for a way of public speaking.
And I remember a stand-up comedian joking about a racist cab driver who plays a part in the sketch where he says "That drivers was saying so many horrible racist things, I swear if Hitler himself had been in that cab he'd have gone 'aber also, also, also!'".
Or something I heard among students once with a disagreement as to how far details about the upcoming assignment should be worked out. One opposed to extreme details what "What do I look like? Your own personal studying-führer? You can make it as you like, and we'll edit it when put together later". There it's a metaphor for being extremely controlling.
Such things are quite accepted. Quite frankly I don't understand how someone could be opposed to such metaphor use.
The US doesn't have hate speech laws. Even if it did, comparing oneself to Hitler wouldn't be an offence under them, unless one actually advocated the mass murder of any of the groups you mentioned. The Lizardwoman thing is a reference taking the piss out of conspiracy theorists that actually believe in Jewish secret societies and lizard people, as you'll see if you follow the link. As such, he'd the very opposite of anti-semitic - he's mocking people that are!
Really? People got offended by Jim referring to himself as "anti-hitler" or whatever he said? I thought it was pretty funny and laughed out loud at it.
By this logic, Mel Brooks would be a horrible anti semite. Now that does not make any sence.
The guy loves to take the piss out on Hitler, that does not make him an anti semite, that makes him an anti nazi. Also he is Jewish himself, so I do believe he ridicules Hitler because he wants to ridicule Hitler and not because he hates Jews.
Also:
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The "possibly" was intended to imply a lack of knowledge, rather than any degree of certainty. I'm just aware that there are some things which are legal in the UK which are not in Germany (and probably visa versa).
And seriously, I'm all for getting angry on the internets, but this thread has way more bile than it needs to.
Now I can understand joking, but sometimes the line you cross to tell a joke is too far. And I know that Jim likes to go to far to get a rise out of people, but this was just too much. My grandfather was smuggled out of Poland to the US while the rest of his family were carted off to death-camps in the late 30s. Millions died in those camps (not just Jews, but people of Gypsy, African, and Asian decent, people with physical and metal challenges, or belonging to a non-christian religion, pretty much anyone who the Third Reich either viewed as a threat to Aryan supremacy or viewed as unfit to live in German society).
And millions more died trying to end the threat the Nazi's posed.
Making light of any of the above would give people very strong backing should they level a lawsuit against this site and its owners, Themis Media, since they would be held accountable to Hate Speech laws on the books in the US.
. Israeli Jew here, you're out of your mind. This has nothing to do with anti-semitism. Hitler is a person that did things and commanded others to do other things. Not everything he did involved Jews or the killing of Jews. Mentioning Hitler does not guarantee mentioning Jews. The article has nothing to with antisemitism. Are you seriously offended by this? You're a weak person if you get offended by this.
While I'm really sorry to hear about what your family's been through, I don't agree with your accusation.
Andy Chalk calling the queen of England a Jewish lizard woman is a reference to David Icke, and his.. outlandish, shall we say, beliefs. In the article, that bit of text is even linked to a site about David Icke, most probably so that people don't misinterpret it as being anti-Semitic.
And Jim Sterling referring to himself as Hitler? Seriously? I mean, maybe you're not a fan of absurd humour, but calling that offensive? What, is Jim Sterling a closet Nazi, and the Jimquisition is secretly feeding subliminal Nazi propaganda to its viewers? I'm going to take a stab in the dark, and say that's not the case.
The "possibly" was intended to imply a lack of knowledge, rather than any degree of certainty. I'm just aware that there are some things which are legal in the UK which are not in Germany (and probably visa versa).
And seriously, I'm all for getting angry on the internets, but this thread has way more bile than it needs to.
Erm. Honestly, the "some people"-comment was not directed at you.
Now I can understand joking, but sometimes the line you cross to tell a joke is too far. And I know that Jim likes to go to far to get a rise out of people, but this was just too much. My grandfather was smuggled out of Poland to the US while the rest of his family were carted off to death-camps in the late 30s. Millions died in those camps (not just Jews, but people of Gypsy, African, and Asian decent, people with physical and metal challenges, or belonging to a non-christian religion, pretty much anyone who the Third Reich either viewed as a threat to Aryan supremacy or viewed as unfit to live in German society).
And millions more died trying to end the threat the Nazi's posed.
Making light of any of the above would give people very strong backing should they level a lawsuit against this site and its owners, Themis Media, since they would be held accountable to Hate Speech laws on the books in the US.
This is a joke, right...right? As other people have pointed out, there are things on this site that the mods allow which shouldn't be allowed, but antisemitism isn't one of them. With the exception of a few people, this site is hardly antisemitic.
CM156: What does the Association of Flight Attendants have to do with this? Also, I think you may have meant to quote someone else.
Yes, you think those flight attendants are just serving coffee, but in the meantime....
It also stands for 'anti fascistische aktie' (sic) or to translate their highly misleading name 'anti fascist action'. They busy themselves attacking demonstrations, sending death threats to politicians, assaults and a few occasions of arson.
Quite more sad is that their hatespeech campaigns have resulted in several murders.
Imperator_DK: This is why we can't have nice things.
And by things, I mean good humour and honest debates.
...oh wait, we totally can, since OP is the work of a hyperbolic hypersensitive grammar subject Nazi who seem to love censorship as much as Goebbels ever did, free of any knowledge on reasonable standards for offence or on US jurisprudence. Go right ahead and sue against that satirical freedom of the press, m'boy, and do be sure to spend your entire life savings on it.
Never change, US law. Go die in your own fires of oppressive censorship, EU law.
HAHAHA, you're pretty clever. I know you deliberately choose "subject nazi" :)
Cracked me up.
Although, I also find it hyper offensive and you're clearly an anti-Semite /sarcasm
I think our society is going to revolt very violently to all this Bullshit politically correctness one of these days. Personally I long for the days when people stop giving a rats ass and separate real defamation from humorous/non-serious banter.
Even if there is underlying anti-Semitism behind the humorous remarks, it better be expressed in jokes and satire than in pogroms. You don't want people to think that the Jews are trying to censor any statement involving Jews, Hitler, Nazis, holocaust... right?
The holocaust is no less funny than the enslavement of Africans, IMHO.
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Now I can understand joking, but sometimes the line you cross to tell a joke is too far. And I know that Jim likes to go to far to get a rise out of people, but this was just too much. My grandfather was smuggled out of Poland to the US while the rest of his family were carted off to death-camps in the late 30s. Millions died in those camps (not just Jews, but people of Gypsy, African, and Asian decent, people with physical and metal challenges, or belonging to a non-christian religion, pretty much anyone who the Third Reich either viewed as a threat to Aryan supremacy or viewed as unfit to live in German society).
And millions more died trying to end the threat the Nazi's posed.
Making light of any of the above would give people very strong backing should they level a lawsuit against this site and its owners, Themis Media, since they would be held accountable to Hate Speech laws on the books in the US.
. Israeli Jew here, you're out of your mind. This has nothing to do with anti-semitism. Hitler is a person that did things and commanded others to do other things. Not everything he did involved Jews or the killing of Jews. Mentioning Hitler does not guarantee mentioning Jews. The article has nothing to with antisemitism. Are you seriously offended by this? You're a weak person if you get offended by this.
Aren't you the guy who says he's Jewish when he wants to support anti-Jewish comments and says he's anti-Jewish or an ex-Jew at other times?
Now I can understand joking, but sometimes the line you cross to tell a joke is too far. And I know that Jim likes to go to far to get a rise out of people, but this was just too much. My grandfather was smuggled out of Poland to the US while the rest of his family were carted off to death-camps in the late 30s. Millions died in those camps (not just Jews, but people of Gypsy, African, and Asian decent, people with physical and metal challenges, or belonging to a non-christian religion, pretty much anyone who the Third Reich either viewed as a threat to Aryan supremacy or viewed as unfit to live in German society).
And millions more died trying to end the threat the Nazi's posed.
Making light of any of the above would give people very strong backing should they level a lawsuit against this site and its owners, Themis Media, since they would be held accountable to Hate Speech laws on the books in the US.
. Israeli Jew here, you're out of your mind. This has nothing to do with anti-semitism. Hitler is a person that did things and commanded others to do other things. Not everything he did involved Jews or the killing of Jews. Mentioning Hitler does not guarantee mentioning Jews. The article has nothing to with antisemitism. Are you seriously offended by this? You're a weak person if you get offended by this.
Aren't you the guy who says he's Jewish when he wants to support anti-Jewish comments and says he's anti-Jewish or an ex-Jew at other times?
I think he is an ethnic Jew, but he might not religiously be Jewish.
Millions died in those camps (not just Jews, but people of Gypsy, African, and Asian decent, people with physical and metal challenges, or belonging to a non-christian religion,
You forgot all the catholics and jehovah's witnesses, you anti-Christian bastard. =P
Now I can understand joking, but sometimes the line you cross to tell a joke is too far. And I know that Jim likes to go to far to get a rise out of people, but this was just too much. My grandfather was smuggled out of Poland to the US while the rest of his family were carted off to death-camps in the late 30s. Millions died in those camps (not just Jews, but people of Gypsy, African, and Asian decent, people with physical and metal challenges, or belonging to a non-christian religion, pretty much anyone who the Third Reich either viewed as a threat to Aryan supremacy or viewed as unfit to live in German society).
And millions more died trying to end the threat the Nazi's posed.
Making light of any of the above would give people very strong backing should they level a lawsuit against this site and its owners, Themis Media, since they would be held accountable to Hate Speech laws on the books in the US.
. Israeli Jew here, you're out of your mind. This has nothing to do with anti-semitism. Hitler is a person that did things and commanded others to do other things. Not everything he did involved Jews or the killing of Jews. Mentioning Hitler does not guarantee mentioning Jews. The article has nothing to with antisemitism. Are you seriously offended by this? You're a weak person if you get offended by this.
Aren't you the guy who says he's Jewish when he wants to support anti-Jewish comments and says he's anti-Jewish or an ex-Jew at other times?
. What the guy below you said - I'm an ethnic Jew, not a Religious Jew.
. Israeli Jew here, you're out of your mind. This has nothing to do with anti-semitism. Hitler is a person that did things and commanded others to do other things. Not everything he did involved Jews or the killing of Jews. Mentioning Hitler does not guarantee mentioning Jews. The article has nothing to with antisemitism. Are you seriously offended by this? You're a weak person if you get offended by this.
Aren't you the guy who says he's Jewish when he wants to support anti-Jewish comments and says he's anti-Jewish or an ex-Jew at other times?
I think he is an ethnic Jew, but he might not religiously be Jewish.
What I was inferring was that I believe he's also said things like "I hate all religion and I hate I was born jewish and disowned it". If he has abandoned being Jewish, its two faced of him to put himself forward as a Jew when it suits him.
. Israeli Jew here, you're out of your mind. This has nothing to do with anti-semitism. Hitler is a person that did things and commanded others to do other things. Not everything he did involved Jews or the killing of Jews. Mentioning Hitler does not guarantee mentioning Jews. The article has nothing to with antisemitism. Are you seriously offended by this? You're a weak person if you get offended by this.
Aren't you the guy who says he's Jewish when he wants to support anti-Jewish comments and says he's anti-Jewish or an ex-Jew at other times?
. What the guy below you said - I'm an ethnic Jew, not a Religious Jew.
Are you actually involved in the Jewish community and Jewish culture?
-snip- Are you actually involved in the Jewish community and Jewish culture?
. I must be. I am constantly surrounded by it. I indeed have renounced my religion but I am still legally a Jew, and am constantly reminded of it. The only way for me to avoid it is to live in one of the only Arab villages in the valley, and even then you see pesky Jewish tourists sampling Falafel.
Millions died in those camps (not just Jews, but people of Gypsy, African, and Asian decent, people with physical and metal challenges, or belonging to a non-christian religion,
You forgot all the catholics and jehovah's witnesses, you anti-Christian bastard. =P
. Jehovah's witnesses were killed in the camps, they even had their very own insignia (Like the yellow start of David for the Jews). Catholics... no.
Mod edit
What was that term Yahtzee used? Lemon-scented knee-jerk pussy wipe? Seems rather appropriate here.