Who's ready for a... $5 trillion budget deficit?

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arbane:
I hope you're not under the delusion that things built in the 1950s are made of imperishable matter that will endure eternally. 60 years is a long time.

Have they repaired it yet?

And why is it the same tough-guy Republicans who are happy playing Russian Roulette with their poor people's food, roads, and retirement funds turn into paranoid fear-freaks every time they see a Muslim?

...and with the above correction, I guess I answered my own question.

Yes, yes it was. But I realize on Planet Republican, helping poor people learn a trade and not starve to death is considered a mark AGAINST the WPA.

Considering that right now those teenagers are competing for jobs with adults who need those shit jobs to continue subsisting, yeah, just a little.

So, you'd rather mandate an UNlivable wage?

Yes, and bridges close to collapsing are closed by the state government that they are contained in.

They are waiting for federal government funds because my mayor is in deep with the unions.

Nice of you to cast such nasty aspersions on an entire political party and its members. You do know that the stock market, even if a person retires in recession, outperforms Social Security over a person's entire life? That's why smart people invest in mutual funds for their retirement portfolios. Social Security should not be given to everybody then. Cut if off at the knees now so my generation is given no expectation of it.

A Live Journal account! Hilarious! Economists generally agree that the New Deal failed. It extended the length of the Great Depression and may have increased the depth as well. It was a textbook example of the Broken Window Fallacy. Learn a trade on their own dime by getting loans or going through one of the many charitable organizations that exist (or applying for grants.) Nothing was ever handed to me. I worked for what I have.

Teenage unemployment is very high, especially among black males in the inner cities. Clearly, Democrats don't care about inner city black males (especially on education, as they have the worst education outcomes of anyone.)

Yeah, because people who flip burgers don't deserve to make enough to live on. The person who bags my groceries doesn't either. Sorry, but unlike some European countries, Americans don't get weeks and weeks of paid vacations.

Big_Willie_Styles:

Which has happened, what, four times in the history of the death penalty in the United States? The existence of DNA evidence and fingerprints has made the last case of that like forty years ago or longer.

That's how it should go. It shouldn't take more than 30 years to kill a dude who shot a cop in the back (and then end up giving him life in prison instead somehow.)

Oh, a play on words. How wonderful! I was referencing the Teddy Roosevelt quote, but whatever. The reason your metaphor doesn't work is because it is not the size that counts in that respect, it is how you use it. A big stick is meant to be an intimidation device that is not meant to be used often. A big member is meant to be used on a daily basis.

Oh, the Afghanistan War has been a failure. Unless every member of every Islamic terrorist organization suddenly died all at the same time, that country will never be stable. Iraq has a chance because of all the oil it can export for trade.

1: Now, While I don't know the figures, It HAS to be more then 4 cases...

2: That's how death camps work I do believe.

3: If how you use it is all that matters, why not cut defence? Like the army needs those 40 million bombers that they'll will never ever use...

Ninjamedic:

arbane:
snip

I was wondering when you'd join in. Popcorn?

I have a hard time resisting threads like this, where someone is wrong on the Internet. I realize it's a bad habit, but it's like eating potato chips.

Ninjamedic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_the_United_States#Efficiency
And if you cannot afford insurance?
Not sure what you're point is for the second.

And your ignoring my main point. The policies that most republicans support will cost the budget more in the long and short term. And when you start using emotionally charged rhetoric as your justification for it, it becomes more suspect that there is arbitrary line drawn at what can have money thrown at and what cannot.

You can go to any emergency room in the country which, under law, cannot refuse you service even if you skip out on the bill.

No, they cost the state budgets. And guess what? The death penalty states don't have a problem paying their bills. It is the states that use their funds elsewhere which are having difficulties.

I like the death penalty. People who kill others deserve to be taken down. They sacrifice their right to life when they take someone else's. That's called principle.

On the whole entitlement thing, I don't think there should be blanket entitlements. Why does Social Security and Medicare apply to everyone? Why not just to the poorest people, like Welfare and Medicaid?

Big_Willie_Styles:

Yeah, because people who flip burgers don't deserve to make enough to live on. The person who bags my groceries doesn't either. Sorry, but unlike some European countries, Americans don't get weeks and weeks of paid vacations.

Ok, was that Sarcasm or is that how you value human beings?

Diablo1099:
1: Now, While I don't know the figures, It HAS to be more then 4 cases...

2: That's how death camps work I do believe.

3: If how you use it is all that matters, why not cut defence? Like the army needs those 40 million bombers that they'll will never ever use...

There are very few reported cases where that has been proven in any way.

Not really...

I don't have a problem cutting defense. I want the bases in Germany and other countries closed. The only countries that need our help are those near regimes hostile to them, which pretty much just leaves South Korea and Israel.

Diablo1099:
Ok, was that Sarcasm or is that how you value human beings?

You think a person who flips burgers deserves enough money to live on despite the fact that everybody of working age can do his job? People are paid what they worth, i.e. the ability to replace them. People like Steve Jobs are nearly irreplaceable. Short-order cooks are easy to replace.

DrVornoff:

http://www.criminaljusticedegreesguide.com/features/10-infamous-cases-of-wrongful-execution.html

You're so full of shit.

I take it you never saw The Thin Blue Line. It's a good movie. Check it out.

Wait, are we talking about military hardware or male hardware?

Ask a stupid question.

Still the fact that you would compare your penis to an ICBM speaks volumes.

So exporting oil will prevent crazy or incompetent people from gaining positions of power?

I notice the lack of conclusive evidence in all those cases. It has only been conclusively proven in 4 cases.

Life in prison, not execution. Mumia deserved to be executed decades ago.

I was referring to male hardware when I was talking about "member."

I never compared it. You made the comparison first.

No, but it can give a measure of stability. Nothing stops the election of crazy or incompetent people. Just look at the United States. We got an incompetent leader right now.

Big_Willie_Styles:

You can go to any emergency room in the country which, under law, cannot refuse you service even if you skip out on the bill.

What about long term injuries or disabilities?

No, they cost the state budgets. And guess what? The death penalty states don't have a problem paying their bills. It is the states that use their funds elsewhere which are having difficulties.

I cant get any info online about the state budgets, so I'll leave this point to posters with better knowledge in this area.

I like the death penalty. People who kill others deserve to be taken down. They sacrifice their right to life when they take someone else's. That's called principle.

Well Sir, while I vehemently disagree with what your saying I will defend to the death your right to say it.

On the whole entitlement thing, I don't think there should be blanket entitlements. Why does Social Security and Medicare apply to everyone? Why not just to the poorest people, like Welfare and Medicaid?

Wait, you don't have means testing in your country?

Big_Willie_Styles:
Which has happened, what, four times in the history of the death penalty in the United States? The existence of DNA evidence and fingerprints has made the last case of that like forty years ago or longer.

Now, to be fair, what I'm about to show you isn't the list of people who have been wrongfully executed. However, that number is thoroughly unimportant for this discussion. Why? Because to make the death penalty less ludicrously pricy, we'd need to abolish or severely shorten the appeals process (something you yourself in this thread seem to advocate).

http://www2.law.columbia.edu/instructionalservices/liebman/liebman/Liebman%20Study/docs/1/section2.html

Between 1973 and 1995, approximately 5,760 death sentences were imposed in the U.S. Only 313 (5.4%; one in 19) of those resulted in an execution during the period.

Of the 5,760 death sentences imposed in the study period, 4,578 (79%) were finally reviewed on "direct appeal" by a state high court

[...]

Nationally, over the entire 1973-1995 period, the overall error-rate in our capital punishment system was 68%.

If that doesn't raise a red flag, I don't know what will.

Stagnant:

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cohn/96404/class-obamacare-deficits-lindsey-graham-fox-news-math

That not good enough for ya? Try this:

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/120xx/doc12069/hr2.pdf

Wherein is stated, quite clearly:

"Impact on the Federal Budget in the First Decade
CBO and JCT estimate that, on balance, the direct spending and revenue
effects of enacting H.R. 2 would cause a net increase in federal budget
deficits of $210 billion over the 2012-2021 period (see Table 1).1 By
comparison, last March CBO and JCT estimated that enacting PPACA and
the health-related provisions of the Reconciliation Act would reduce federal
deficits by $124 billion over the 2010-2019 period.2 The difference
between the two estimates for the 10-year projection periods is primarily
attributable to the different time periods they cover. Over the eight years
that are common to the two analyses (2012-2019), enactment of PPACA
and the health-related provisions of the Reconciliation Act was projected
last March to reduce federal deficits by $132 billion, whereas the repeal of
that legislation is projected now to increase deficits by $119 billion."

More recent CBO numbers tell a different story. Also, the New Republic, really? Like I'll trust the people who didn't catch Stephen Glass for years for accurate reporting.

Also, the CBO has to base its numbers on the methodology of what it is given. If it says it will save money by doing this, the CBO must assume that is true. Try an independent analysis.

You can't save money by insuring more people without rationing care.

Big_Willie_Styles:

You think a person who flips burgers deserves enough money to live on despite the fact that everybody of working age can do his job? People are paid what they worth, i.e. the ability to replace them. People like Steve Jobs are nearly irreplaceable. Short-order cooks are easy to replace.

Well I can sit on my arse all day watching bad Films and playing Twisted Metal, does that mean we can pay the average executive/banker sweet fuck all?

Big_Willie_Styles:

They are waiting for federal government funds because my mayor is in deep with the unions.

Town's broke, huh?

Big_Willie_Styles:

Nice of you to cast such nasty aspersions on an entire political party and its members. You do know that the stock market, even if a person retires in recession, outperforms Social Security over a person's entire life? That's why smart people invest in mutual funds for their retirement portfolios. Social Security should not be given to everybody then. Cut if off at the knees now so my generation is given no expectation of it.

No.

Let me rephrase that: Oh, HELL no.

The reason we have Social Security is that even when the Almighty Market throws a cog (like it did back in 2008, remember that?), it won't result in Grandma starving to death in a gutter, LIKE SO MANY DID back in the Great Depression. Can you even imagine the economic shitstorm if Bush had managed to privatize Social Security like he'd wanted to before the market shit out its own skeleton?

Big_Willie_Styles:

A Live Journal account! Hilarious! Economists generally agree that the New Deal failed.

RIGHT-WING economists agree with New Deal failed. Practically nobody else does. And I'm sorry Brad Hicks isn't wearing a sufficiently nice business suit for you to take him seriously, but he seems to know his history to me.

Big_Willie_Styles:

Learn a trade on their own dime by getting loans or going through one of the many charitable organizations that exist (or applying for grants.)

You mean the same charitites that have been conclusively proven to be insufficient to the task of getting people enough to EAT? Those charities?

Big_Willie_Styles:

Nothing was ever handed to me. I worked for what I have.

I think I've already mocked you enough for this particular ridiculous statement, but I'll just leave it here in case I think of anything else mean to say about it.

I'll just say that you are not Eustace Conway, and leave it at that for now.

Big_Willie_Styles:

Yeah, because people who flip burgers don't deserve to make enough to live on. The person who bags my groceries doesn't either. Sorry, but unlike some European countries, Americans don't get weeks and weeks of paid vacations.

...the fuck?

Are you actually saying, with your bare face hanging out, that some people should work as hard as they can at their shit jobs and STILL not be able to survive?

what?

Big_Willie_Styles:
I notice the lack of conclusive evidence in all those cases. It has only been conclusively proven in 4 cases.

Don't move the goalposts. You said it has been decades since the last wrongful execution. That is bullshit. And I don't care what you think "conclusively proven" means. There was a doubt. And I will not be complicit in execution, especially not when there are still doubts. You want to convince me otherwise? Better men than you have tried.

I was referring to male hardware when I was talking about "member."

I never compared it. You made the comparison first.

I was being facetious. I find the saber rattling in general to be immature and the, "But we might need it later," excuse is horseshit.

No, but it can give a measure of stability. Nothing stops the election of crazy or incompetent people. Just look at the United States. We got an incompetent leader right now.

For a second there I thought you were going to say the Tea Party. Guess that was too much to hope.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Yeah, because people who flip burgers don't deserve to make enough to live on. The person who bags my groceries doesn't either. Sorry, but unlike some European countries, Americans don't get weeks and weeks of paid vacations.

There really is nothing else to say here. You don't believe people are equals. You believe that people whom you perceive to be inferior to you don't deserve to be treated like people. They should live in indentured servitude to their employers. You have just admitted that you're not interested in economic fairness or equality. You have what you want, and fuck everyone else. You have revealed yourself for an aberration.

A pleasure doing business with you.

Stagnant:
Now, to be fair, what I'm about to show you isn't the list of people who have been wrongfully executed. However, that number is thoroughly unimportant for this discussion. Why? Because to make the death penalty less ludicrously pricy, we'd need to abolish or severely shorten the appeals process (something you yourself in this thread seem to advocate).

http://www2.law.columbia.edu/instructionalservices/liebman/liebman/Liebman%20Study/docs/1/section2.html

Between 1973 and 1995, approximately 5,760 death sentences were imposed in the U.S. Only 313 (5.4%; one in 19) of those resulted in an execution during the period.

Of the 5,760 death sentences imposed in the study period, 4,578 (79%) were finally reviewed on "direct appeal" by a state high court

[...]

Nationally, over the entire 1973-1995 period, the overall error-rate in our capital punishment system was 68%.

If that doesn't raise a red flag, I don't know what will.

That's the point, dude. Yes, they get reversed because DNA advancements have occurred since their original trial.

Yes, because DNA evidence wasn't the norm until the mid-90's. (Didn't stop defense lawyers from fighting that tooth-and-nail.) Mistakes happen when the only things to go on are witnesses.

Big_Willie_Styles:

You think a person who flips burgers deserves enough money to live on despite the fact that everybody of working age can do his job?

Yes, it's kinda a basic human right and all...
What, you what MORE people unable to live and forced to beg for a living?

People are paid what they worth, i.e. the ability to replace them. People like Steve Jobs are nearly irreplaceable. Short-order cooks are easy to replace.

That is bullshit, Not everyone can be Steve Jobs, but not deserving to live because of it?
I know for a Fact that I will never be as well known as Him but that doesn't mean I don't deserve a wage from which I can survive.

DrVornoff:
Don't move the goalposts. You said it has been decades since the last wrongful execution. That is bullshit. And I don't care what you think "conclusively proven" means. There was a doubt. And I will not be complicit in execution, especially not when there are still doubts. You want to convince me otherwise? Better men than you have tried.

I was being facetious. I find the saber rattling in general to be immature and the, "But we might need it later," excuse is horseshit.

For a second there I thought you were going to say the Tea Party. Guess that was too much to hope.

Proof is what I demand. Your examples are not conclusive. Also, DNA evidence was not the standard until the mid-90's. And plenty of advancements have been made since then.

Apparently, you're not a big fan of insurance.

Hilarious. Obama doesn't know economics from a hole in the ground. His campaign's ads this week are very illustrative of that.

Diablo1099:

Yes, it's kinda a basic human right and all...
What, you what MORE people unable to live and forced to beg for a living?

That is bullshit, Not everyone can be Steve Jobs, but not deserving to live because of it?
I know for a Fact that I will never be as well known as Him but that doesn't mean I don't deserve a wage from which I can survive.

No, that's not a basic human right. The pursuit of happiness is, not the guarantee of it.

Yes, but there's a scale. From Paul Ryan to Steve Jobs to hedge fund managers to [...] short-order cooks to fruit-pickers.

You deserve the wage you work for.

Funny that you capitalized "him" when referring to Steve Jobs. Has there been a religion formed around Steve Jobs that I am unaware of?

Big_Willie_Styles:

You can go to any emergency room in the country which, under law, cannot refuse you service even if you skip out on the bill.

I thought you were claiming to dislike 'freeloaders'? But here you are suggesting a policy that involves freeloaders actually jacking up medical costs for everyone, until the hospital is forced to shut down the emergency room, resulting in more deaths-

-never mind, I get it now.

Big_Willie_Styles:

I like the death penalty. People who kill others deserve to be taken down. They sacrifice their right to life when they take someone else's. That's called principle.

And when they execute the wrong guy, you're fine with that, right?

(And Captcha says "Do more sit-ups". IT'S WATCHING ME.... O_o )

Big_Willie_Styles:
Proof is what I demand. Your examples are not conclusive. Also, DNA evidence was not the standard until the mid-90's. And plenty of advancements have been made since then.

Don't bullshit me. You made a claim. I proved it wrong. Stop pretending you made a different claim.

Apparently, you're not a big fan of insurance.

There's a difference between insurance and continually bloating your military to satisfy paranoid delusions and a chronic sense of insecurity in your superiority.

Hilarious. Obama doesn't know economics from a hole in the ground.

Neither do you, and yet here you are. And are you telling me that the Tea Party are fit to lead? I wouldn't trust that confederacy of morons and psycho-Christians to hold a door open for me, let alone determine state/national policy.

Big_Willie_Styles:

You deserve the wage you work for.

Bullshit. If that were the case, a lot more people would be getting paid in PAIN.

I want to see you try to convince me that the financial wizards who cratered the economy 'deserve' to make millions of dollars while laborers scrape by.

Big_Willie_Styles:

That's the point, dude. Yes, they get reversed because DNA advancements have occurred since their original trial.

Yes, because DNA evidence wasn't the norm until the mid-90's. (Didn't stop defense lawyers from fighting that tooth-and-nail.) Mistakes happen when the only things to go on are witnesses.

Hey! Guess what! If you had had your way, we would have several thousand more innocents murdered by the government!

Big_Willie_Styles:
Hilarious. Obama doesn't know economics from a hole in the ground. His campaign's ads this week are very illustrative of that.

This from the guy who thinks the new deal failed.

Big_Willie_Styles:

No, that's not a basic human right. The pursuit of happiness is, not the guarantee of it.

Yes, but there's a scale. From Paul Ryan to Steve Jobs to hedge fund managers to [...] short-order cooks to fruit-pickers.

You deserve the wage you work for.

Funny that you capitalized "him" when referring to Steve Jobs. Has there been a religion formed around Steve Jobs that I am unaware of?

Right to Fucking LIVE! by this reasoning, only a handful of people in the world matter, It's retarded!

Oh, wait, it's people that YOU deem of importance....

So a person flipping burgers for 18 hours a day should earn more then a CEO who spends his day having other people do his work for him, Right?

It A Letter, Big Whoop, Don't Detract From The Topic At Hand.

Big_Willie_Styles:
No, that's not a basic human right. The pursuit of happiness is, not the guarantee of it.

Prepare to have your mind blown. If you cannot earn enough money to meet the cost of living through legitimate means, you become far more likely to obtain it through... wait for it... illegal means! Criminologists call this strain theory. The less able people are to access necessities, the more likely they are to turn to criminal behavior to either acquire these things or the money needed to acquire them.

I'm a professional magician and mentalist. If I find myself penniless and homeless, I have no illusions (if that's not an unfortunate choice of words) that I would use my skills to run cons in order to make enough money to eat. I don't do it now because as bad as things are, I'm not that desperate. But if it comes down to compromising my morals or becoming just another statistic, I'm going to make like The Yellow Kid. When the chips are down, you find a way to survive. And morals don't have a lot of nutritional value.

So by advocating that some people don't deserve a livable wage, you are actually making society less safe and lowering the standard of living. Congratulations. You just made society worse out of your own selfish and egotistical desire to keep people you perceive as inferior under your thumb.

Big_Willie_Styles:
You think a person who flips burgers deserves enough money to live on despite the fact that everybody of working age can do his job? People are paid what they worth, i.e. the ability to replace them. People like Steve Jobs are nearly irreplaceable. Short-order cooks are easy to replace.

You know, I'm not going to enter into the discussion proper, but I just felt the need to express my feelings on this.
I'd hate to be like you, I'd hate to have anything to do with you and I'd hate to live in a country where your opinion has any kind of significant prevalence. I neither want to nor am able to properly put my disgust into words, so let's leave it at that.

arbane:
Town's broke, huh?

No.

Let me rephrase that: Oh, HELL no.

The reason we have Social Security is that even when the Almighty Market throws a cog (like it did back in 2008, remember that?), it won't result in Grandma starving to death in a gutter, LIKE SO MANY DID back in the Great Depression. Can you even imagine the economic shitstorm if Bush had managed to privatize Social Security like he'd wanted to before the market shit out its own skeleton?

RIGHT-WING economists agree with New Deal failed. Practically nobody else does. And I'm sorry Brad Hicks isn't wearing a sufficiently nice business suit for you to take him seriously, but he seems to know his history to me.

You mean the same charitites that have been conclusively proven to be insufficient to the task of getting people enough to EAT? Those charities?

I think I've already mocked you enough for this particular ridiculous statement, but I'll just leave it here in case I think of anything else mean to say about it.

I'll just say that you are not Eustace Conway, and leave it at that for now.

...the fuck?

Are you actually saying, with your bare face hanging out, that some people should work as hard as they can at their shit jobs and STILL not be able to survive?

what?

No, it would just be cheaper and faster to do it without union labor.

The stock market performed better in 2008 than the same funds contributed to Social Security. There was no Social Security until FDR implemented it in the middle of the Great Depression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal#Effect_on_the_Depression -- Yeah, the goal of the New Deal was to end the Great Depression. Did it do that? Um, no. So, based on its goals, it failed. That's pretty easy to follow. Sorry if that was too fast for you.

Yes, because charitable giving is down since your side of the aisle prefers to let government be their charity.

Eustance Conway... A dude who lived off the land for years? I think the more apt people to say I'm not are people like Andrew Carnegie, at least not yet.

Uh, yes. They don't deserve it because they are not doing much. "Not survive," not quite. They can survive, it will just be very difficult. They should work hard to change their situation. A living wage is reserved for those with technical or intellectual skills. Flipping burgers is not a skill people will pay much for. Yes, shit jobs pay little. That will not change.

Diablo1099:
Right to Fucking LIVE! by this reasoning, only a handful of people in the world matter, It's retarded!

Oh, wait, it's people that YOU deem of importance....

So a person flipping burgers for 18 hours a day should earn more then a CEO who spends his day having other people do his work for him, Right?

It A Letter, Big Whoop, Don't Detract From The Topic At Hand.

Right to life puts some responsibility for that on your shoulders, dude.

Well, I deem certain people more important than others.

A CEO generally has more schooling and has worked a lot harder to climb the corporate ladder or invented something spectacular. Not a lot of Einsteins flipping burgers, dude.

Stagnant:
Hey! Guess what! If you had had your way, we would have several thousand more innocents murdered by the government!

This from the guy who thinks the new deal failed.

That's not my way. In this day and age, DNA evidence is highly conclusive.

Did the New Deal end the Great Depression, its stated goal?

http://professional.wsj.com/article/SB123353276749137485.html?mg=reno64-wsj

arbane:
Bullshit. If that were the case, a lot more people would be getting paid in PAIN.

I want to see you try to convince me that the financial wizards who cratered the economy 'deserve' to make millions of dollars while laborers scrape by.

Hilarious. You think a person flipping burgers deserves $30,000 a year? Good job finding a burger for less than $50 under that scenario!

No, the government cratered the economy, as it almost always does. Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930, anyone?

Big_Willie_Styles:
Right to life puts some responsibility for that on your shoulders, dude.

"If they have any dying to do, let them do it quickly and decrease the surplus population."

Well, I deem certain people more important than others.

So what? Who are you?

A CEO generally has more schooling and has worked a lot harder to climb the corporate ladder or invented something spectacular. Not a lot of Einsteins flipping burgers, dude.

That's a laugh. A lot of CEO have MBAs and the MBA is the worst thing to ever happen to American business. There are a lot of CEO's who actually aren't very good at their jobs, but they keep them because the shareholders know that executive turnover causes the stock prices to dip.

As for smart people not flipping burgers, that's bullshit too. It depends entirely on whether the industry with their relevant skills is hiring. Some sectors are either very difficult to break into or have been affected by the recession.

For example, I know a number of artists who are working shit jobs because that's the only thing currently available to them. These guys have amazing talent, but there aren't enough entertainment industry jobs going around for all of them. A number of them are still trying to build up an audience. If they had better wages, they could afford to do more marketing and speed up the process.

Your idea that just possessing intelligence means you have a ticket to Easy Street really shows how naive you are.

DrVornoff:
Prepare to have your mind blown. If you cannot earn enough money to meet the cost of living through legitimate means, you become far more likely to obtain it through... wait for it... illegal means! Criminologists call this strain theory. The less able people are to access necessities, the more likely they are to turn to criminal behavior to either acquire these things or the money needed to acquire them.

I'm a professional magician and mentalist. If I find myself penniless and homeless, I have no illusions (if that's not an unfortunate choice of words) that I would use my skills to run cons in order to make enough money to eat. I don't do it now because as bad as things are, I'm not that desperate. But if it comes down to compromising my morals or becoming just another statistic, I'm going to make like The Yellow Kid. When the chips are down, you find a way to survive. And morals don't have a lot of nutritional value.

So by advocating that some people don't deserve a livable wage, you are actually making society less safe and lowering the standard of living. Congratulations. You just made society worse out of your own selfish and egotistical desire to keep people you perceive as inferior under your thumb.

Yes, people turn to crime in desperation. Surprise, surprise!

Good job picking a terrible profession with little to fall back on! How is that my fault or the fault of anyone else?

A living wage would lower the standard of living by making every single thing that depends on menial labor to skyrocket.

Big_Willie_Styles:

Right to life puts some responsibility for that on your shoulders, dude.

Well, I deem certain people more important than others.

A CEO generally has more schooling and has worked a lot harder to climb the corporate ladder or invented something spectacular. Not a lot of Einsteins flipping burgers, dude.

Paris Hilton, My Super Sweet 16. Explain.

Big_Willie_Styles:
There was no Social Security until FDR implemented it in the middle of the Great Depression.

It. Was. Implemented. BECAUSE. The. Stock. Market. CRASHED. And. People. STARVED.

I feel like I'm arguing with an Eliza script that was programmed with the complete works of Ron Paul. :-P

Big_Willie_Styles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal#Effect_on_the_Depression -- Yeah, the goal of the New Deal was to end the Great Depression. Did it do that? Um, no. So, based on its goals, it failed. That's pretty easy to follow. Sorry if that was too fast for you.

Thank you for your gift of condescension. I will cherish it forever.

Much like Obama's stimulus attempt, the New Deal got its budget cut by people like you. it worked, it just didn't work as well as it was hoped it would, and like Obama's stimulus, that gives people like you an opportunity to say that it was completely worthless and should never have happened.

Sadly, we do not have the ability to peer into alternate universes to see how things would have gone.

Big_Willie_Styles:

Yes, because charitable giving is down since your side of the aisle prefers to let government be their charity.

Are you sure that the only reason?
And why is it that relying on government is considered a moral failing by your crowd, but relying on Private Charity is... actually, also considered a moral failing.

Big_Willie_Styles:

Uh, yes. They don't deserve it because they are not doing much. "Not survive," not quite. They can survive, it will just be very difficult. They should work hard to change their situation. A living wage is reserved for those with technical or intellectual skills. Flipping burgers is not a skill people will pay much for. Yes, shit jobs pay little. That will not change.

Wow. Even among Republicans, it's not every day that I get to see the Fuck the Poor argument stated so nakedly.

I take it it hasn't occurred to you that these shit jobs that you think should be made deliberately unlivable are STILL WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE?

Big_Willie_Styles:
That's not my way. In this day and age, DNA evidence is highly conclusive.

Do you get all of your information on criminal justice from reruns of CSI?

Big_Willie_Styles:
Hilarious. You think a person flipping burgers deserves $30,000 a year? Good job finding a burger for less than $50 under that scenario!

I think they deserve a wage that you can live off of. Your sensationalist blustering isn't going to change that this is a moral imperative and you're just coming across as a heartless egomaniac and a cheapskate.

No, the government cratered the economy, as it almost always does. Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930, anyone?

So the vampires selling toxic mortgages and then betting on them to fail were just innocent victims of the evil federal government? You are voluntarily giving up your right to get pissed off at criminals.

Willie, do you realize that the protection of human dignity has essentially been the core of all political writing since the late 1700s? And do you realize that you just shat all over it?

I can only cosign what Skeleon said. You are a terrible person, and I am ashamed that you live in the western world.

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