Bias against fat people

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Blablahb:

keiskay:
some people are fat for no reasons sometimes though, well as to no fault of their own besides poor genetics.

That's bullshit. Nobody's even been able to come up with a 'fat gene'. Every pound on them has to have been eaten at some point. Even strong medication infamous for weight gain barely impacts someone's weight more than 10-20%. It's impossible to become fat without it being a choice.

That's....the most retarded thing you've ever said, and you've said a LOT of retarded things. You need to actually investigate some of the work that's been done on this subject, there is no "fat gene", but there are plenty of other genes which express at varying degrees of intensity in any particular individual. In one person, that results in them having a liking for savoury foods, or sweet foods, or spicy foods; in another it results in them having a continual, potentially even unconscious craving for salt, or fat, or sugar, or any of the other things which were scarcities when we were evolving, and when you combine that with the most effective producer of recreational drugs on the planet, the human brain, can you begin to understand how that's a problem that may well be beyond someone's ability to control?

I mean fuck Blab, I'm on the autism spectrum and even I can muster up some shred of empathy or at least understanding for addicts, regardless of what substance they're stuck with.

Magichead:
That's....the most retarded thing you've ever said, and you've said a LOT of retarded things. You need to actually investigate some of the work that's been done on this subject, there is no "fat gene", but there are plenty of other genes which express at varying degrees of intensity in any particular individual.

Why are you first accusing me of being wrong, and then acknowledge I'm right and start talking about something else? I was talking about a non-existant fat gene, not about genetic variances as a whole.

Magichead:
I mean fuck Blab, I'm on the autism spectrum and even I can muster up some shred of empathy or at least understanding for addicts, regardless of what substance they're stuck with.

Empathy is something different from denying the own fault factor when it's right in front of us. It's also something different from pretending addicts can't help themselves and thus should never be judged by their actions.

I'm of a different mind. Weakness won't be solved by excusing weakness. The only way to fix it is to make people change and watch how that energizes them do its work. Pretending weight is genetic and letting people stuff themselves all day every day is the worst possible way to approach it.

The UK girl who needed part of her house demolished to be taken outside that someone mentioned earlier is a good example:
How can she possibly have become so fat? If she couldn't leave the house anymore, how come huge stacks of food find their way from the supermarket into her belly every day?
The also heavily overweight mother posing next to her for the picture of the newspaer offers an insight. She herself overeats, and tolerated her daughter steadily eating herself to death.

Not letting such a thing happen and judging someone by their actions would've offered a solution there. If the mother hadn't kept feeding her, it wouldn't have happened. If the mother had been judged for doing that, it wouldn't have happened. If the mother had been judged for her own overeating in the past, none of it would've happened and her daughter would've been spared diabetes and a host of other health problems.

Magichead:
That's....the most retarded thing you've ever said, and you've said a LOT of retarded things.

Hey?

Blablahb says the exact same thing every time the issue comes up, which is often. Only difference this time seems to be that he hasn't used the words "disgusting" or "slob", which he generally does when talking about fat people.

Blablahb:

Big_Willie_Styles:
Genetics. We still don't know the impact genetics have. Metabolism is probably genetic.

Uh, no, it is not. Metabolism can be accelerated or slowed depending on your activities and activity level.

keiskay:
And they never came up with a gay gene either so are you saying being gay is a choice as well?

Bad comparison. A sexual orientation isn't something you need to sustain every day or it changes by itself.

Being fat is. If you don't overeat you automatically return to a healthy weight. By the way, a gay gene has been found, for men anyway. Especially obesity can't be sustained unless one overeats heavily, every single day.

okay well you obviously have done no research of your own and again decided that your own personal anecdotes are facts in and of themselves.

read this article and learn http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?_r=1&8dpc=&pagewanted=all

thaluikhain:

Not G. Ivingname:
Simple.

When you see somebody your brain registers as "ugly," your less inclined to like them.

We are evolutionary designed to find the most suitable mate, somebody that looks healthy, with an hour glass figure or broad shoulders.

Why we treat them differently from the very thin, I am not sure. Maybe we feel sorry at a person trying "too hard" at being beautiful. Maybe the lack of nutrients much more noticable change in behavior in a person that had to many (I only met one person suffering from anorexia, so I far from an expert). Maybe we are more used to seeing celeberties falling to anorexia, and the fat ones are mostly comedians, so it is "ok" to laugh at them.

That's not true, it's only fairly recently that being large was seen as a bad thing, it used to be desirable because it showed you could afford enough food to eat.

Nowdays, the economy has shifted and culture along with it.

True, although it still sort of was the "finding desirable people to mate with" since being chubby 200 years ago meant you actually were eating on a regular basis, and not suffering from maltrition.

Well look at this a different way, when someone talks about a fat person that is their friend and talks about their weight they do so in a way to not hurt their feelings. But if we see someone excessively skinny to the point of being anorexic they need help. While anorexia is considered a disease being obese is more of life choice that people allow you to have and decent people will try their best to tip toe around the issue in a polite manner. Of course both anorexia and obesity are horrific for you and are both illness.

So I don't think it's fair to compare anorexia to obesity and say that one type of person is treated better than another. Would you rather your weight be considered an illness or a choice? I'd assume a fat person wants their weight to be a disease while an anorexic person would rather be told it's their life choice yet the roles are reversed. Also considering the current stats on overweight people in the US I don't see how there is such a severe epidemic of fat people being insulted every where they go... they are almost the majority.

keiskay:

read this article and learn http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?_r=1&8dpc=&pagewanted=all

That was a fascinating article. Thanks for sharing.

JoJo:
Honestly? Like it or not, fat people aren't visually pleasant to look at and it's bad for their health too, so I don't think it should be seen as a desirable trait. I wouldn't discriminate against a fat person but I don't think it should be encouraged either. The vast majority of overweight people are that by their own choice, you don't see many fat people in Africa or the poorer parts of Asia where they simply don't have the food to overeat.

This entirely.

I mean, there's no much else I could put in here. This pretty much sums it up.

captcha: it's over

Oh shi-

BrassButtons:

keiskay:

read this article and learn http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?_r=1&8dpc=&pagewanted=all

That was a fascinating article. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, interesting stuff. I just wonder how widely accepted these findings are.

keiskay:
okay well you obviously have done no research of your own and again decided that your own personal anecdotes are facts in and of themselves.
read this article and learn http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?_r=1&8dpc=&pagewanted=all

Okay, so you quote me something that shows that if made to undereat compared to activity, fat people *did lose weight*, proving weight is not genetic. After they left, they regained everything, proving their own choices are responsible. Then the same for the inmates. They got fat after being overfed as part of the programma, but then lost weight when the normal (although probably low-quality and high-fat) prison diet began to control their eating choices again, once again proving it's what you choose to eat that determines one's weight.

Maybe I missed your point, but it seems like that article supports every word I've said in this topic.

Blablahb:

keiskay:
okay well you obviously have done no research of your own and again decided that your own personal anecdotes are facts in and of themselves.
read this article and learn http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?_r=1&8dpc=&pagewanted=all

Okay, so you quote me something that shows that if made to undereat compared to activity, fat people *did lose weight*, proving weight is not genetic. After they left, they regained everything, proving their own choices are responsible. Then the same for the inmates. They got fat after being overfed as part of the programma, but then lost weight when the normal (although probably low-quality and high-fat) prison diet began to control their eating choices again, once again proving it's what you choose to eat that determines one's weight.

Maybe I missed your point, but it seems like that article supports every word I've said in this topic.

I see you read the article without actually reading the article. A useful talent when attempting to maintain a position. Let me give you this analogy. Genetics is the inclination of a hill where the top the hill is skinny and the bottom is obese. To climb the hill you eat less and exercise more. For some people, the inclination is harder. Steeper. The climbing harder. For others, its not even a soft slope. Only when you reach the top, you never stop climbing. You keep going for the rest of your life, to maintain your position. It's a lot easier to keep walking a soft incline than it is to forever climb a mountain. So yes, moving up the hill is how you loose weight. But, like being told to "stop being poor", its neither as easy or simple as it sounds.

Lilani:
It's sort of like bias against the poor, come to think of it.

That's a very good analogy, actually. The poor are just lazy. The fat are just lazy. It's completely their own fault, they would say, when the reality is obviously a lot more complex than that.

theonewhois3:
I see you read the article without actually reading the article. A useful talent when attempting to maintain a position. Let me give you this analogy. Genetics is the inclination of a hill where the top the hill is skinny and the bottom is obese. To climb the hill you eat less and exercise more. For some people, the inclination is harder. Steeper. The climbing harder. For others, its not even a soft slope.

And everybody chooses to either climb or not for themselves, and it's not like someone thinks "I'm going to climb", and then their genes revolt and go "No you don't, you're staying right down here!".

I don't care if it's simple or not, I care that the excuse that it's all genetic is not true, and nobody can be obese without actively choosing to be that continuously. We're not talking about people who aren't sports fanatics and thus a little overweight, we're talking about people who are morbidly obese. That's almost doubling your body weight from the middle point of the (very large) healthy range.

Imagine yourself, then imagine another you added to you in weight, then imagine having to eat everything you eat in a day, but twice. That's what we're talking about here.

Point by point then.

Blablahb:
And everybody chooses to either climb or not for themselves, and it's not like someone thinks "I'm going to climb", and then their genes revolt and go "No you don't, you're staying right down here!".

No it's not, I agree. Genes are just the inclination of the hill.

Blablahb:
I don't care if it's simple or not,

You obviously don't.

Blablahb:
I care that the excuse that it's all genetic is not true,

I did not claim this. Actually, I don't think anyone has claimed this.

Blablahb:
and nobody can be obese without actively choosing to be that continuously.

Then why are there so many fat people, if they are treated so horribly?

Blablahb:
We're not talking about people who aren't sports fanatics and thus a little overweight, we're talking about people who are morbidly obese. That's almost doubling your body weight from the middle point of the (very large) healthy range.

Imagine yourself, then imagine another you added to you in weight, then imagine having to eat everything you eat in a day, but twice. That's what we're talking about here.

I'm going to try and be constructive in my criticism. Though I cannot promise that I won't be hypocritical or sanctimonious and I'm sure i will be harsh. Because at the moment you are annoying me.
You don't even seem to be engaging with what other posters have written. Most of your reply to my post seems to be some sort response to an imagined argument against your position, rather then what I posted. You also don't seem to be able to accept the causes of obesity is not black and white, that the factors for obesity for one person might be complicated let alone the factors for millions of obese people. You actively ignore that point. You make this argument over the causes of fatness/obesity in to dichotomy between genetics and lifestyle. The arguments you do make for your side of this false dichotomy are anecdotes or statements based on unproven premises.

Having been both obese and anorexic at different points in my life, there is certainly a reason why people are generally more likely to reach out and try to help an anorexic person. It is possible to be obese and be the happiest person in the world, but the mentality of true anorexia pretty much defines you as miserable. The mentality of an anorexic is always destructive. Also, there's the fact that reaching out to help a fat person will likely almost always be taken by an insult if they didn't ask for help in the first place.

theonewhois3:
No it's not, I agree. Genes are just the inclination of the hill.

Okay, then where is the gene that forces someone to be obese, even if they'd eat 500 kcal each day and work out like mad?

theonewhois3:
Then why are there so many fat people, if they are treated so horribly?

Because eating makes you happy, and drowns out sorrow. I think you'll find trying to eat away problems a big cause of obesity.

theonewhois3:
You also don't seem to be able to accept the causes of obesity is not black and white, that the factors for obesity for one person might be complicated let alone the factors for millions of obese people.

I wasn't aware I'd made any statements about that. What I said was that obesity is not genetic. There is no such thing as an obesity gene.

Now, Sea Shephard may try to block my front door cause I'm threatening the whales by saying that, but at the end of the day, obesity is still a choice. A continuing choice people make when they eat and when they sit still. Whatever factors contribute, people still make the choice to take them out on food instead of resolving their problems.

Blablahb:
What I said was that obesity is not genetic. There is no such thing as an obesity gene.

There is a difference between not having an obesity gene, and obesity not having any genetic factors whatsoever (especially since very few things are controlled by a single gene-it's much more complex than that). Someone else provided evidence that there are strong genetic factors tied to obesity. Unless you have competing evidence, none of us have any reason to disagree with what's been presented.

Blablahb:

keiskay:
okay well you obviously have done no research of your own and again decided that your own personal anecdotes are facts in and of themselves.
read this article and learn http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?_r=1&8dpc=&pagewanted=all

Okay, so you quote me something that shows that if made to undereat compared to activity, fat people *did lose weight*, proving weight is not genetic. After they left, they regained everything, proving their own choices are responsible. Then the same for the inmates. They got fat after being overfed as part of the programma, but then lost weight when the normal (although probably low-quality and high-fat) prison diet began to control their eating choices again, once again proving it's what you choose to eat that determines one's weight.

Maybe I missed your point, but it seems like that article supports every word I've said in this topic.

maybe you should learn to read a whole study before reading through with your biases.

So Dr. Hirsch and his colleagues, including Dr. Rudolph L. Leibel, who is now at Columbia University, repeated the experiment and repeated it again. Every time the result was the same. The weight, so painstakingly lost, came right back. But since this was a research study, the investigators were also measuring metabolic changes, psychiatric conditions, body temperature and pulse. And that led them to a surprising conclusion: fat people who lost large amounts of weight might look like someone who was never fat, but they were very different. In fact, by every metabolic measurement, they seemed like people who were starving.

so you want them to live a life style that equivalent to them starving? how fucking cruel.

Before the diet began, the fat subjects' metabolism was normal - the number of calories burned per square meter of body surface was no different from that of people who had never been fat. But when they lost weight, they were burning as much as 24 percent fewer calories per square meter of their surface area than the calories consumed by those who were naturally thin.

whats this? people who were consistently fat throughout their lives have an insanely slow metabolism when they force themselves to be skinny? damn who would of thought.

Eventually, more than 50 people lived at the hospital and lost weight, and every one had physical and psychological signs of starvation. There were a very few who did not get fat again, but they made staying thin their life's work, becoming Weight Watchers lecturers, for example, and, always, counting calories and maintaining themselves in a permanent state of starvation.

it seems like the people who were successful had to dedicate their lives to staying thin, its not something easy for them to maintain, like it is for me or you.

His subjects were prisoners at a nearby state prison who volunteered to gain weight. With great difficulty, they succeeded, increasing their weight by 20 percent to 25 percent. But it took them four to six months, eating as much as they could every day. Some consumed 10,000 calories a day, an amount so incredible that it would be hard to believe, were it not for the fact that there were attendants present at each meal who dutifully recorded everything the men ate.

Once the men were fat, their metabolisms increased by 50 percent. They needed more than 2,700 calories per square meter of their body surface to stay fat but needed just 1,800 calories per square meter to maintain their normal weight.

so what is this people who are thin and have always been thin are always gonna be thin and its actually harder for them to gain weight? heck some of them had to eat 10,000 calories day for 6 months to raise from 20% BMI to 25% BMI. and after that if they returned to their normal diet they got skinny again. seems like getting fat is incredibly hard.

The implications were clear. There is a reason that fat people cannot stay thin after they diet and that thin people cannot stay fat when they force themselves to gain weight. The body's metabolism speeds up or slows down to keep weight within a narrow range. Gain weight and the metabolism can as much as double; lose weight and it can slow to half its original speed.

so fat people stay fat and skinny people stay skinny, if they want to change that they basically have to dedicate their lives to gaining/losing weight.

The scientists summarized it in their paper: "The two major findings of this study were that there was a clear relation between the body-mass index of biologic parents and the weight class of adoptees, suggesting that genetic influences are important determinants of body fatness; and that there was no relation between the body-mass index of adoptive parents and the weight class of adoptees, suggesting that childhood family environment alone has little or no effect."

In other words, being fat was an inherited condition.

Dr. Stunkard also pointed out the implications: "Current efforts to prevent obesity are directed toward all children (and their parents) almost indiscriminately. Yet if family environment alone has no role in obesity, efforts now directed toward persons with little genetic risk of the disorder could be refocused on the smaller number who are more vulnerable. Such persons can already be identified with some assurance: 80 percent of the offspring of two obese parents become obese, as compared with no more than 14 percent of the offspring of two parents of normal weight."

so genetics have a much larger factor in weight and obesity then simple choice as you like to put it.

now please refute me with studies and real scientific evidence and not your silly anecdotes.

For me, it really depends on an obese person's eating habits. I won't call a person out on not exercising enough or maybe having some genuine difficulties in losing weight, but I'm not going to have much sympathy for morbidly obese people who regularly pig out on KFC, double bacon cheeseburgers, or other kinds of garbage.

Ender910:
For me, it really depends on an obese person's eating habits. I won't call a person out on not exercising enough or maybe having some genuine difficulties in losing weight, but I'm not going to have much sympathy for morbidly obese people who regularly pig out on KFC, double bacon cheeseburgers, or other kinds of garbage.

I'm generally with you on this one. If they're all wheezy-wheezy-KFCeezy then they gross me out.

These two episodes of Horizon seem highly relevant.


Skeleon:

Lilani:
It's sort of like bias against the poor, come to think of it.

That's a very good analogy, actually. The poor are just lazy. The fat are just lazy. It's completely their own fault, they would say, when the reality is obviously a lot more complex than that.

Not really, I think it has more to do with attraction. There can be attractive poor people, but usually fat people are portrayed as unattractive(depending on your idea of beauty).

JoJo:
Honestly? Like it or not, fat people aren't visually pleasant to look at

Talk about subjectivity...

JoJo:
it's bad for their health too

You cannot asses someone's health by looking at their weight.

JoJo:
The vast majority of overweight people are that by their own choice

Those fat fucks make me sick. How DARE THEY not be thin and perfect like me?!

keiskay:
whats this? people who were consistently fat throughout their lives have an insanely slow metabolism when they force themselves to be skinny? damn who would of thought.

Did you also read the part where they put their patients on an extreme 600 kcal crash-diet which, predictably, sends a body into famine mode and lowers metabolism? I'm not sure what they intended with that research, because doing that is dieting mistake nr 1. Everybody knows that.

It doesn't change the fact that if you consistently eat and excersize healthily, one can never become obese, and obese people revert back to a normal size automatically.

keiskay:
so genetics have a much larger factor in weight and obesity then simple choice as you like to put it.
now please refute me with studies and real scientific evidence and not your silly anecdotes.

Just because one or two couples with adopted children don't raise them fat doesn't mean there is an obesity gene. In the meantime you do see families where both parents and children are fat, showing it to be the result of continuous poor choices in food and lack of excersize. If it was genetic, only one of the parents would be, and likely not all the children. One thing they share in a family is their eating habits though.

And why would I go off searching for stuff if you appear rude and determined not to listen because you choose to believe people get fat without eating anything at all? It seems like a pointless affair.
Besides, I've already pointed out weight doesn't drop out of thin air. Every gram on a person must've been eaten at some happen. As long as weight doesn't drop out of thin air, obesity is a choice.

Blablahb:
I'm not sure what they intended with that research

Then you didn't read the article, because this is stated plainly.

Everything else you've said can be safely ignored, since you're clearly unwilling to read the scientific data AND to present data of your own.

Blablahb:

keiskay:
whats this? people who were consistently fat throughout their lives have an insanely slow metabolism when they force themselves to be skinny? damn who would of thought.

Did you also read the part where they put their patients on an extreme 600 kcal crash-diet which, predictably, sends a body into famine mode and lowers metabolism? I'm not sure what they intended with that research, because doing that is dieting mistake nr 1. Everybody knows that.

It doesn't change the fact that if you consistently eat and excersize healthily, one can never become obese, and obese people revert back to a normal size automatically.

keiskay:
so genetics have a much larger factor in weight and obesity then simple choice as you like to put it.
now please refute me with studies and real scientific evidence and not your silly anecdotes.

Just because one or two couples with adopted children don't raise them fat doesn't mean there is an obesity gene. In the meantime you do see families where both parents and children are fat, showing it to be the result of continuous poor choices in food and lack of excersize. If it was genetic, only one of the parents would be, and likely not all the children. One thing they share in a family is their eating habits though.

And why would I go off searching for stuff if you appear rude and determined not to listen because you choose to believe people get fat without eating anything at all? It seems like a pointless affair.
Besides, I've already pointed out weight doesn't drop out of thin air. Every gram on a person must've been eaten at some happen. As long as weight doesn't drop out of thin air, obesity is a choice.

and again who is the one with a source here? oh yes me. now please provide data supporting your anecdotes or please shut up. its your choice

Not G. Ivingname:
Simple.

When you see somebody your brain registers as "ugly," your less inclined to like them.

We are evolutionary designed to find the most suitable mate, somebody that looks healthy, with an hour glass figure or broad shoulders.

The really weird (I would even say creepy) thing about this is it presents the entire world as being viewed exclusively through the lens of who is a suitable mate, and who isn't. That's not a normal way of thinking. If the only way you look at people is whether or not you want to do the horizontal mambo with them, that speaks of a tremendously superficial way of looking at the world.

Let's leave aside fat for a moment. This would mean you are judging every person you meet in every capacity as a potential sex partner, regardless of if you have any intention of pursuing any kind of sexual relationship with them. And not only that, you judge their overall value as a person by whether or not you find their appearance sexually attractive. That's horrible.

Batou667:
Actually there was a counter-piece to this in the letters section of my local free paper recently. The gist of it was: why is it socially acceptable to berate a skinny person and tell them to eat more, but it's not ok to tell a fat person to eat less and exercise more? What about the feel-good "beautiful at all sizes" propaganda that gets circulated on Facebook; why are the "beautiful, REAL" women all fat? Are naturally skinny women not real or beautiful?

I've never understood this visceral reaction people have to this Facebook meme. I mean, I know all kinds of absurd attempts to raise self-esteem on Facebook, and I hardly ever hear anyone ranting about them. Is it really so upsetting that some people on Facebook who are obese also try to tell people (usually it seems to me themselves) that just because they are obese, that doesn't mean they have no worth as human beings?

Personally, I'm well aware of the health effects of being overweight, though it seems to me that being fat is simply a side-effect of the real problem in western culture- unhealthy diet combined with little exercise. And while I'm no fat fetishist I've known a fair number of very beautiful heavy women. Personally I've always seen attraction as a combination of factors, not a checklist.

I think that people are naturally a bit more uncomfortable with things as they get farther from the norm that they are used to. Being super skinny is not as noticeable as being very overweight, thus people are more likely to react to it.
Does everyone? No.
Does this justify it? No.
And I don't think of the norm as a supermodel's body otherwise people would be freaked out by the vast majority of elderly people because they did not look like models. Being overweight has a larger visual difference from the norm of people's bodies (In most places, for example being overweight would be the norm in Nauru) than being underweight is.

This is also true whenever you see someone missing a limb or with a seriously damaged facial feature; we pay attention to differences from the norm of our population.

PercyBoleyn:

JoJo:
Honestly? Like it or not, fat people aren't visually pleasant to look at

Talk about subjectivity...

JoJo:
it's bad for their health too

You cannot asses someone's health by looking at their weight.

JoJo:
The vast majority of overweight people are that by their own choice

Those fat fucks make me sick. How DARE THEY not be thin and perfect like me?!

Exactly.

Well, I'd also question how we know exactly why the majority of people are overweight.

Blablahb:

Big_Willie_Styles:
Genetics. We still don't know the impact genetics have. Metabolism is probably genetic.

Uh, no, it is not. Metabolism can be accelerated or slowed depending on your activities and activity level.

Being fat is. If you don't overeat you automatically return to a healthy weight. By the way, a gay gene has been found, for men anyway. Especially obesity can't be sustained unless one overeats heavily, every single day.

Except, no. Metabolism isn't the same for everybody at the same weight. Don't try and act like it is.

Except, no, people who don't overeat may still not lose weight.

I assume you're skinny, so your beliefs on it are based solely on the fact that you've always been thin.

For me personally, there is a difference between chubby, fat and obese.

Chubby is absolutely fine, sometimes, on the right girl, it can even be attractive. Fat is also fine with me. Most fat people can do the same things as everyone else and can work just as hard and live enjoyable lives. Obese? Nah, fuck obese people. Massive fat slobs who can hardly, or sometimes not at all, even get out of the god damn bed. They deliberately eat all day and most do nothing for themselves save be on reality shows.

That sums my views on the issue.

I've seen a lot of discrimination against unattractive women in the workplace. Good looking women have more power. An unattractive woman has to try 10 times more than an attractive woman and men ignore unattractive women (unless they are bosses)

PercyBoleyn:

You cannot asses someone's health by looking at their weight.

But we can tell people's weight by looking at their asses.

D'oh ho ho.

Katatori-kun:
I've never understood this visceral reaction people have to this Facebook meme. I mean, I know all kinds of absurd attempts to raise self-esteem on Facebook, and I hardly ever hear anyone ranting about them. Is it really so upsetting that some people on Facebook who are obese also try to tell people (usually it seems to me themselves) that just because they are obese, that doesn't mean they have no worth as human beings?

I suppose it's because, given the premise that you can change your weight (debatable, I'll grant, as shown in this thread), being overweight is a sign of self-neglect. And when you mix self-neglect with an underserved sense of self-entitlement, that becomes a rather odious and bratty position to take.

It's like if I decided to opt-out of the accepted standards of personal grooming and hygiene ("It's toooo haaaard"), and started to justify this by creating a counter-culture centered around being a scruffbag. I could hijack elements of popular culture to try to justify my decision ("Since when did looking like a hairless prepubescent boy become more attractive than looking like a REAL unkempt man? I mean, Viggo Mortensen was pretty damn hot in LoTR, eh? Who's with me, boys?"). I could go to great lengths to try to raise awareness of scruffy-acceptance ("I got rejected for yet another interview, due to my personal appearance! This is totally as bad as racism!"). I could even attack the "unrealistic, manicured, airbrushed celebrity men who are setting up unattainable standards for the rest of us" and make snarky comments about my better-groomed peers.

Or I could, you know, comb my hair, brush my teeth and have a shave.

Eskapade:
I've seen a lot of discrimination against unattractive women in the workplace. Good looking women have more power. An unattractive woman has to try 10 times more than an attractive woman and men ignore unattractive women (unless they are bosses)

On the other hand if women add a picture of themselves to their job application, if she is attractive she is less likely to be hired.

On the metabolism thing...

I've been pushing 3500 kcal a day for the last few weeks but my body is stubbornly refusing to go above 60kgs. Granted Im doing a lot of exercise but come on!

I guess Im just one of those people who'll never be fat.

I imagine the same thing can apply in reverse.

However, given how rare it is to be as un/lucky as I am, I strongly suspect that most fat is inexcusable through genetics.

I was recently in Amsterdam, and I saw very few fat people (a dozen at most). I suspect that's because everyone cycles everywhere.

Has anyone mentioned epigenetics yet?

Danny Ocean:

I've been pushing 3500 kcal a day

Holy Christ Man! You're consuming 3.5 MILLION calories a day!? What is that, like 50,000 big bags of chips a day? Or two Big Macs?

(I kid)

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