I remember a topic a while back about why people vote Republican and pretty much all the responses mentioned Christianity and said bigotry involved.
Now be perfectly honest, is there just a hatred/bigotry towards this religion?

Yes, I am a christian, but I'm open minded, believe in evolution, gay-marriage etc. and I despise fanatics who know horseshit about the religion.

EDIT: I don't mean just the fanatics, I got a vibe of a hatred towards the religion itself.

It's not really the religion that rankles at people, I don't think... it's the self-aggrandisement and self-righteous evangelism that pisses people off.

Around here, you're free to be as Christian as you please, provided you don't force it on anyone/everyone else. I'm a Christian too, yet I'm perfectly comfortable poking fun at it... which is different from insulting it, I'll hasten to add. Jackasses who do insult it, I'll ignore, simple as that...

There are a lot of atheists on this forum. From what I gather, atheists are treated quite poorly in the US, so I very well understand why they would have a slight dislike of the church.

Then there's the fact that a lot of us, even if not discriminated against, are opposed to the concept of organized religion and the impact it has on society.
A lot of us see religion as the major, if not the only, tool available for people to perpetuate discrimination of social groups.
How would you convince your kid that gays are evil if religious reasoning and arguments weren't culturally accepted? If our culture promoted critical thinking and not blind faith, actually telling children "No, your dad is a retard for saying that. Try to look at the evidence. What would make gays evil?"
There's even a thread in the R&P board right now where people are admitting to being anti-theist.

So yes, you could say there's a lot of disdain for christianity on these forums, but rarely without justification.

It could just be that open minded christians just...don't go around saying it much. You ever seen one of those massively annoying street preachers say that they're not against gay marriage, etc? No. You see them rain down hatred upon people just trying to go about their day to day lives, we basically need more people like you in the public eye, and these bigots need to be held accountable for their actions and words.

Also, specifically, think about the things that a typical internet user likes doing. Masturabation, sex (if they're lucky), some of them drink occasionally (know I do), not going to church, science...generally the kind of stuff that said bigots want people to stop doing, thus creating an instant difference of opinion.

It has more to do with people putting things in the wrong places. There's a religion and politics section on the escapist for a reason. Use it. Off Topic is for stuff that doesn't have its own entire section.

Most forums have it, unless the forums is made for Christians most people on it tend to be atheistic. Atheists see the bad in religion, and there is a lot of bad to it to be perfectly honest.

Renegade-pizza:
I remember a topic a while back about why people vote Republican and pretty much all the responses mentioned Christianity and said bigotry involved.
Now be perfectly honest, is there just a hatred/bigotry towards this religion?

Yes, I am a christian, but I'm open minded, believe in evolution, gay-marriage etc. and I despise fanatics who know horseshit about the religion.

EDIT: I don't mean just the fanatics, I got a vibe of a hatred towards the religion itself.

The majority of people on the Escapist are both American and atheist. Atheists, as a general rule, are treat poorly over there for the still dominant "socially conservative" view that stigmatizes what atheists tend to gravitate to, IE the advancement of science, "progressive" views etc. Since it is, at this point, hard for atheists to speak up in a forum that gets them heard nationally due to the dominance of socially conservative Christian America; they'll gravitate to places on the internet to vent. Hence why you get so much hate for Christianity on here and many other places. Most other religions will pass by relatively unscathed, it's just socially conservative Christianity they go after with a vengeance.

By the way, from my experience on these forums, as soon as you say you're Christian, boom, that's it, you're basically associated with Westboro Baptists. Many individuals will say that "religion" is the primary perpetrator of bad stuff in the world. But it's bad people using religion as a justification that causes bad stuff. You'll just have to bear with that one since many people won't take to that, as it diminishes the role of "religion" itself, which is the thing they want to see in the gallows. Once again, this is all observation that I've made on this forum, nothing "empirically proved" or the like, simply what I've seen.

Jonluw:
So yes, you could say there's a lot of disdain for christianity on these forums, but rarely without justification.

If I may. I see a lot of disdain for certain types of Christianity, IE socially conservative Christianity that tends to get popularly associated with the "republicans". I'm putting stuff in inverted commas since I'm from the UK and may be wrong on some of these pieces of terminology. And you're right, never without justification for those types of Christians, because in my eyes they aren't Christian. They just use that faith system to justify their own twisted views without giving any context to the parts of the Bible they take their justifications from. But I know many Christian people who are simply fantastic people, you couldn't find a bad thing to say about them. I guess my request is, don't lump all types of Christians with the socially conservative ones you appear to be referring to.

There is a fear of organised, institutionalised religions, and a frustration of members of those who don't speak up against the evils of their religions, but who feel that telling non-members "but we aren't all like that" any time it's mentioned is just as good.

Otherwise it's not really relevant to most discussions. Nobody mentions christianity in relation to button mashing, for example.

From your post I assume you're from the US, though your question frames the context of these forums, & you should realize that different countries have different standards & conventions of behaviour.

In Great Britain & most of Europe religions, not just the Abrahamic one, aren't usually given much consideration in comparison to the US. There are exceptions like Spain, Italy & Ireland where the Christian cult specifically is given more prominence but again, even by US standards, these countries don't make such an issue of it so it isn't presented as such a conspicuous subject for ridicule or disdain.

On internet forums like The Escapist's one must realize that geographically there's a hugely varying membership. By the simple diversity of cultures it shouldn't be a surprise if comments on some subjects seem incongruous or even outright distasteful to many of the members. Think about some of the posts you must have seen regarding racism, sexism, & homophobia. To many people, myself included, these concepts are features inherent not just in the Christian cult but in the Jewish & Muslim sects of that religion (& in other religions too, like Hinduism). I understand however that to those in the US it's frequently considered abhorrent not to pursue some aspect of the Abrahamic dogma.

In short what you might consider unjustified disdain others might consider a rational appraisal, though not just for Christianity.

Griffolion:

Jonluw:
So yes, you could say there's a lot of disdain for christianity on these forums, but rarely without justification.

If I may. I see a lot of disdain for certain types of Christianity, IE socially conservative Christianity that tends to get popularly associated with the "republicans". I'm putting stuff in inverted commas since I'm from the UK and may be wrong on some of these pieces of terminology. And you're right, never without justification for those types of Christians, because in my eyes they aren't Christian. They just use that faith system to justify their own twisted views without giving any context to the parts of the Bible they take their justifications from. But I know many Christian people who are simply fantastic people, you couldn't find a bad thing to say about them. I guess my request is, don't lump all types of Christians with the socially conservative ones you appear to be referring to.

I did not mean only socially conservative/regressive christians.
They are the only specific group will display outright hatred towards though.
You will still, however, see a lot of dislike for christianity and religion in general as well.
Many people will agree that religion as a concept at the moment is a negative influence on society and should be removed from the public eye. Go check out the R&P board for yourself if you don't already hang out there.

I do know good people who are religious, hell I practically grew up with a friend of my parents who is a priest and his wife, and they are great people. Always happy and welcoming, and they do a lot to help out people in their community.
My image of them did receive a slight crack recently when I was talking to them about a muslim immigrant they were helping though.
They were recounting a story and mentioned that "the woman they were helping had told them she would pray to Allah for them, as if that helps at all *hearty laughter*".
I realize it was probably supposed to be a joke, but I spent the rest of that evening pretty devastated that these people whom I'd seen as paragons of tolerance and likability had such a side.
And it just makes me think: Are they helping people because they would like to see them happy, or are they doing it because they think their god would like them to?
It's a system of ethics that I find unlikeable.

Jonluw:
I did not mean only socially conservative/regressive christians.
They are the only specific group will display outright hatred towards though.
You will still, however, see a lot of dislike for christianity and religion in general as well.
Many people will agree that religion as a concept at the moment is a negative influence on society and should be removed from the public eye. Go check out the R&P board for yourself if you don't already hang out there.

I do know good people who are religious, hell I practically grew up with a friend of my parents who is a priest and his wife, and they are great people. Always happy and welcoming, and they do a lot to help out people in their community.
My image of them did receive a slight crack recently when I was talking to them about a muslim immigrant they were helping though.
They were recounting a story and mentioned that "the woman they were helping had told them she would pray to Allah for them, as if that helps at all *hearty laughter*".
I realize it was probably supposed to be a joke, but I spent the rest of that evening pretty devastated that these people whom I'd seen as paragons of tolerance and likability had such a side.
And it just makes me think: Are they helping people because they would like to see them happy, or are they doing it because they think their god would like them to?
It's a system of ethics that I find unlikeable.

I think many people on this forum would agree that. If you were to do a general population consensus, I don't think it would turn out like that. But that's just my opinion.

Well regarding your friends parents, by their own Holy book, their God will examine their motivations, as you mentioned, and judge them accordingly. And I guess it would be disheartening to see two people who you'd thought of as these "paragons of tolerance and likability" as you put it, to say such a thing. But everyone has a side of themselves which is a darker side. Me personally, I'm sure many people see me as a generally nice guy, always willing to help anyone. But I deal with issues of anger, bitterness, being judgmental, pride. And they do manifest sometimes. Nobody's perfect, I really don't need to tell you that. But I wouldn't instantly go questioning their religion based on that flaw. I personally would see it more on the side of "that's something they'll hopefully come to be rid of someday". I'll also ask, did that one thing invalidate (to you personally) every single other act of kindness you witnessed or heard them do? Regardless of motivation.

catalyst8:
not just in the Christian cult but in the Jewish & Muslim sects of that religion

A couple things strike me about this:
1) Even living in literally one of the most liberal areas of the U.S., I would not feel entirely safe referring to Christianity as a cult. The possibility that places like this exist...it must be some sort of utopia.
2) Judaism is not a sect of Christianity. If anything, it's the other way around.

Griffolion:
I think many people on this forum would agree that. If you were to do a general population consensus, I don't think it would turn out like that. But that's just my opinion.

Depends on what population you're thinking of, but the world is largely religious, so it's sort of hard to get an unbiased view.
Besides, consensus has no bearing on truth. For example, it doesn't matter that 50% of US citizens don't believe in evolution. It means nothing to the strength of the theory. All it means is that 50% of US citizens are demonstrably wrong.

Well regarding your friends parents, by their own Holy book, their God will examine their motivations, as you mentioned, and judge them accordingly. And I guess it would be disheartening to see two people who you'd thought of as these "paragons of tolerance and likability" as you put it, to say such a thing. But everyone has a side of themselves which is a darker side. Me personally, I'm sure many people see me as a generally nice guy, always willing to help anyone. But I deal with issues of anger, bitterness, being judgmental, pride. And they do manifest sometimes. Nobody's perfect, I really don't need to tell you that. But I wouldn't instantly go questioning their religion based on that flaw. I personally would see it more on the side of "that's something they'll hopefully come to be rid of someday". I'll also ask, did that one thing invalidate (to you personally) every single other act of kindness you witnessed or heard them do? Regardless of motivation.

Of course that little episode isn't what makes me question their religion. That was just an anecdote relating to good christians.
What it does is make me question the relevant system of ethics.
I have very different, way more valid, reasons for questioning christianity.

I haven't heard of any part of the bible which says that "doing good things only to please me, not to help your fellow man as a goal in itself, is not a virtue" though. Of course, I've not read it.

Jonluw:
There are a lot of atheists on this forum. From what I gather, atheists are treated quite poorly in the US, so I very well understand why they would have a slight dislike of the church.

Like fuck they're treated poorly here. For the most part atheists here (New York) are smug self-worshiping asshats who's only reason for not believing in God is to make themselves feel superior to the rest of the population.

*Is agnostic*

Dango:

Jonluw:
There are a lot of atheists on this forum. From what I gather, atheists are treated quite poorly in the US, so I very well understand why they would have a slight dislike of the church.

Like fuck they're treated poorly here. For the most part atheists here (New York) are smug self-worshiping asshats who's only reason for not believing in God is to make themselves feel superior to the rest of the population.

I guess you can ask one of your many atheist presidential candidates or politicians in general how they feel about it.

Or you can take a trip down south and see how people feel about atheists in states that aren't New York.
Perhaps ask one of the many atheists that are "in the closet".

And that's a really shallow opinion you have of atheists there. You'd do good to put some actual research into why people believe what they do.

If they're behaving smugly, that's because their worldview is not consolable with religion and they feel religious people are ridiculous for breaking with their opinion on the nature of knowledge.
In fact, I'd say they're fully in the right to be smug, if only because people in the states are seriously trying to get creationism into the school curriculum while ridiculing the people who think we were created by space aliens.

It's not their reason for adopting the worldview though. That's a horribly naïve, not to mention offensive, thought.

I think there is a measurable amount of arrogance about it on these forums. Often I see people make snide comments saying people who worship God are like adults who still believe in Santa Claus, and don't at all feel like they are being a bit of an asshole. It's not everybody, of course, but there are many.

Like with all regions of the Internet, open communication plus anonymity equals total fuckwad. People's natural blinders and barriers all but vanish, so they think they can say those things and get nothing but a pat on the back. But it doesn't matter if that's how you feel about religion, it's still a very rude and very personal way to word it. The fact that it's how you legitimately feel doesn't make it any less personal, or any more appropriate to say to them. To think you can strut around telling people how much you hate or look down on them them and not be the asshole in the situation is just childish.

Everybody's shit stinks equally. The fundamental Christians shit doesn't stink any more or less than the arrogant twit who starts letting someone know how much they hate religion the moment they learn they happen to have some form of faith. Anybody who tries to claim the higher ground in the situation clearly hasn't turned around and sniffed their own shit recently.

Jonluw:

Dango:

Jonluw:
There are a lot of atheists on this forum. From what I gather, atheists are treated quite poorly in the US, so I very well understand why they would have a slight dislike of the church.

Like fuck they're treated poorly here. For the most part atheists here (New York) are smug self-worshiping asshats who's only reason for not believing in God is to make themselves feel superior to the rest of the population.

I guess you can ask one of your many atheist presidential candidates or politicians in general how they feel about it.

Or you can take a trip down south and see how people feel about atheists in states that aren't New York.
Perhaps ask one of the many atheists that are "in the closet".

And that's a really shallow opinion you have of atheists there. You'd do good to put some actual research into why people believe what they do.

If they're behaving smugly, that's because their worldview is not consolable with religion and they feel religious people are ridiculous for breaking with their opinion on the nature of knowledge.
In fact, I'd say they're fully in the right to be smug, if only because people in the states are seriously trying to get creationism into the school curriculum while ridiculing the people who think we were created by space aliens.

It's not their reason for adopting the worldview though. That's a horribly naïve, not to mention offensive, thought.

1. It is a shallow opinion, because atheists here are shallow people. I've actually taken the time to talk to them quite a bit, they're not actually open to believing in any religion, they're just atheists because it's the "in" thing to do (Keep in mind I'm talking about the newest generation, around my age, 17, In New York and a majority of other states, the few southern states where it's "cool" for kids to be Christian are admittedly pretty bad)

2. No, they are not in the right looking down on Christians, for the same reasons Christians don't have the right to look down on atheists. They should just respect each other's beliefs and get over themselves.

3. If you think you can talk about the majority of teenagers here and their reasons for adopting their worldview you're far more ignorant than you claim me to be.

4. Why is this not in the Religion and Politics section?

Renegade-pizza:
I remember a topic a while back about why people vote Republican and pretty much all the responses mentioned Christianity and said bigotry involved.
Now be perfectly honest, is there just a hatred/bigotry towards this religion?

Yes, I am a christian, but I'm open minded, believe in evolution, gay-marriage etc. and I despise fanatics who know horseshit about the religion.

EDIT: I don't mean just the fanatics, I got a vibe of a hatred towards the religion itself.

Well if there's one thing I learned from these forums, it's two things:

1.) There is "no such thing" as a moderate or liberal christian in the eyes of... The majority of people at least on the R&P forums, either you're a bigot, or you're misinformed about your own religious beliefs. It doesn't matter if you believe in evolution or equal rights for gays, you can only be a zealot who screams that every person everywhere is going to hell if you want to look even remotely close to a "christian" in their eyes.

and

2.) No matter how many allies you try to make or how well you try to clarify your point, the second you support any belief of the church or think [i]anything[i] less of Atheists, then you're instantly going to have at least five different people jump onto your point and go into long rants about your inherited bigotry like a bunch of vermin jumping onto a carcass.

So to answer your question, yes, I honestly believe there's a great deal of bigotry on these forums towards christians. The only thing you can do is become the bigot they want you to be or avoid these people as much as possible.

I have no problems with Christianity itself, just the crazy ones. And I don't like smug atheists either..

Dango:
1. It is a shallow opinion, because atheists here are shallow people. I've actually taken the time to talk to them quite a bit, they're not actually open to believing in any religion, they're just atheists because it's the "in" thing to do (Keep in mind I'm talking about the newest generation, around my age, 17, In New York and a majority of other states, the few southern states where it's "cool" for kids to be Christian are admittedly pretty bad)

You should probably bear in mind that we're not talking about highschool culture here.
We're talking about real-world stuff.
I don't particularly care about how stuff is going in highschools in the US, but from what I can see from across the pond, atheists receive quite a pounding out in the adult world.

For the record, I have a few friends who have spent some years in the states, and they were apparently received with quite a bit of shock when they revealed they weren't christian.
No, they weren't visiting the southern states. Northwest, generally, was the area they went to.

And you speak of 'them' as if they're a homogenous group and as if you've talked to the entire group not a few people in your immedeate surroundings.

2. No, they are not in the right looking down on Christians, for the same reasons Christians don't have the right to look down on atheists. They should just respect each other's beliefs and get over themselves.

You don't get to dictate whether looking down on people is wrong or not, you know.
I personally look down on adults who believe in unicorns, ouija boards, tarot cards and miscellaneous other topics.
If someone looks down on religious people, I have no right to tell them that's wrong. Nor have you.

3. If you think you can talk about the majority of teenagers here and their reasons for adopting their worldview you're far more ignorant than you claim me to be.

Yes, I agree. Except that the statement applies to you as well.
And except that I don't give a shit about what teenagers are up to.

Treat religion like your penis, don't whip it out in public and don't shove it down your children's throats.

I don't dislike christians but I do treat them as mentally ill. Could you take someone seriously if you knew they believed the world was flat and held up by giant turtles or the sun was carried across the sky in a carriage? Not to mention I disagree parts what they worship (like forbidding gays as the most obvious and intolerance for other religions).

Aidinthel:

catalyst8:
not just in the Christian cult but in the Jewish & Muslim sects of that religion

A couple things strike me about this:
1) Even living in literally one of the most liberal areas of the U.S., I would not feel entirely safe referring to Christianity as a cult. The possibility that places like this exist...it must be some sort of utopia.
2) Judaism is not a sect of Christianity. If anything, it's the other way around.

I use the word cult in the literal sense: 'a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object' (OED 2012). Due to the insistence of Christians that the Christ was supposedly a human son of the Jewish god, that makes Christianity a cult. That you wouldn't feel safe correctly describing it as such in even the most liberal (& by that I assume you mean the literal meaning of tolerant) area of the US is disgusting. As I said previously, in Great Britain & Europe religion isn't really a big deal, & certainly no-one should expect any penalty for abstaining from or criticizing it. You have my deepest sympathy.

I wasn't calling Judaism a sect of Christianity, Islam & Judaism are sects of the same Abrahamic religion; While the Jewish tribes were the first recognized group(s) to codify the dogma of Abraham in the Tanakh, itself largely appropriated from Mesopotamian pantheism (e.g. Jehovah/Yahweh, most orders of angels, the Flood & Moses myths, etc.), they are hugely outnumbered by the two other main groups who worship the same god. Jews are outnumbered by Muslims, thus making Judaism a sect, however Islam was subsequent to Judaism thereby making Islam a sect too.

CAPTCHA: emperor's clothes
Yes, that sums it up perfectly.

Hoplon:

To be fair it's bigotry against anyone dumb enough to believe in god irrespective of the particular brand of pompous ridiculousness they ascribe to.

Least it should be, if not shame on them.

And once more Bigotry comes out of the woodwork.

In all honesty I find Atheism to be closer to Pompous Ridiculousness than Christianity at this point.

Renegade-pizza:
Yes, I am a christian, but I'm open minded, believe in evolution, gay-marriage etc. and I despise fanatics who know horseshit about the religion.

EDIT: I don't mean just the fanatics, I got a vibe of a hatred towards the religion itself.

And yet you came here announcing your hatred... don't remember that being taught in church.

Also these things go in the flame proof Politics/Religion section so it's easier to ignore.

Hoplon:
To be fair it's bigotry against anyone dumb enough to believe in god irrespective of the particular brand of pompous ridiculousness they ascribe to.

Least it should be, if not shame on them.

Missing the point a bit there, I think.

Yes, personally I tend to find most religious beliefs very foolish at best. However, the world is full of foolishness, I've yet to find anyone (myself included) who is immune from it. It makes very little difference to me if a person happens to believe that the world is a mere 6,000 years old.

But if there's a billion or so of that person, then I have cause to worry. If Christianity was a tiny thing, that religion you saw in that movie once, only it wasn't a very good representation, then nobody would care.

Likewise, nobody much cares about Wiccans, but if tomorrow there were 400 million of them with a fixed (or at least common) dogma about how both members and non-members should think and act, people would be keeping a very close eye on them.

Yes, I hate the religion. I have a problem with all religions in general (in that they're complete fiction that I'm being forced to live with as if it was real), but I have a particular disdain for christianity because they're the ones trying to change laws in this country and make us live by their code.

Yes, from what I've seen there's alot of hate for religion in this forum.

Meh, I just roll my eyes at it, I've found strength in Catholicism and that's good enough for me.

Hoplon:
I was being fatuous for the most part since lots of people felt like playing the victim rather than disowning the idiots that make their group look bad.

There's a lot of that, yes.

Not really a fan of any religion, but yes, Christianity takes the cake of dislike for me.
I'm from Sweden though. The norm here is being atheist, but if you are religious you keep it to yourself. Statistically I believe over 70% are considered Christians here, but that's because we used to get written into the Swedish church at birth. I wasn't indoctrinated(well, my grandmother tried), so I haven't got the least bit of faith in me, though I still haven't bothered to write myself out - along with so many others.