Is there a general distain of Christianity on the forums?

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Dango:

Jonluw:
There are a lot of atheists on this forum. From what I gather, atheists are treated quite poorly in the US, so I very well understand why they would have a slight dislike of the church.

Like fuck they're treated poorly here. For the most part atheists here (New York) are smug self-worshiping asshats who's only reason for not believing in God is to make themselves feel superior to the rest of the population.

*Is agnostic*

HEh such, generalizing, harsh words Dango... never took you as one to get bent up over religious beliefs or smug asshatism...<.<

Though, I do take issue with that statement... considering I am an athiest... and it has little to do with being better than people... you know inferiority complex and everything...<.<

OT: I don't hate any specific religion... I hate the idea of organized religion and fundamentalism... It exists as little more than an escape from reality and an excuse to justify irrational and bigotted thoughts and behavior...

not to say that there's nothing relevant or "good" that religion has to say... but having to cherry pick to find all of the good things, that no doubt, you'd already agree with, based on cultural upbringing, begs the question of, "What's the point anymore?" once you do that it defeats the purpose of blind faith...

But as far as Christians go... they probably recieve the most hate because they're the majority... that's just how it works... and besides that, as much as America would like to say otherwise, it's home to possibly the majority of religious fanatics... just from the sheer size of the belief...

Mr.K.:

Renegade-pizza:
Yes, I am a christian, but I'm open minded, believe in evolution, gay-marriage etc. and I despise fanatics who know horseshit about the religion.

EDIT: I don't mean just the fanatics, I got a vibe of a hatred towards the religion itself.

And yet you came here announcing your hatred... don't remember that being taught in church.

Also these things go in the flame proof Politics/Religion section so it's easier to ignore.

Really? I only went once and they were preaching about how the jews were wrong.

ZorroFonzarelli:
There is a disdain for religion as a whole in almost all modern media, but Christianity makes the best target because it is a politically correct-permitted target, unlike Islam or Judaism.

Honestly, I think it's more the fact that Christianity is what most of the people in question have the most experience with, making it the 'de-facto' religion in their heads. According to some of the more recent statistics, 78.4% of Americans are some variant of Christian, while the runner-up category is total non-affiliation at 12.1%[1]. For those keeping track at home, that means that the remaining religious classifications (Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age faiths, Native American faiths, Agnostics, Atheists, etc) make up a grand total of 9.9% of America's population. Christianity's the easy target, yes, but that's more a matter of exposure than anything else. Christians make up the overwhelming majority within the States, easily giving them the most representation. And mind you, that's before we take into account things like the 700 Club which only serve to increase the faith's exposure even more, or how many schools focus almost exclusively on Christianity for "Religious Education".

Summing it up: If 8/10 people you meet are christian, and the religion you hear about the most is christianity, it should not come as any surprise that any criticism you have of religion would reflect on christianity in similar proportion. Is that fair? No, especially when the speaker fails to acknowledge the existence of other faiths. It is, however far from unexpected.

[1] Showing a 6.3 to 5.8 split between secular unaffiliated and religious unaffiliated

Renegade-pizza:
I remember a topic a while back about why people vote Republican and pretty much all the responses mentioned Christianity and said bigotry involved.
Now be perfectly honest, is there just a hatred/bigotry towards this religion?

Hatred? Yes. Bigotry? No. The two need to be distinguished when talking about organizations that are consensual in nature. I hate the NSDAP, but I don't think anyone would call that bigotry. Similarly, I hate Christianity and what it stands for, but this is not born out of an irrational hatred, nor is it possible to classify "Christian" the same way you could classify "Black" or "Homosexual" - a person is christian by choice, and hating Christianity is, as such, hardly classifiable as bigotry.

And as for the hatred towards Christianity... Well, your group earned it! Christians have used their religion as an excuse to dehumanize and discriminate against others, to enslave, to take control of the public, and even to murder. And all this for the sake of a holy book that cannot even in theory be established as truth. I dislike all religions, largely because accepting them indicates giving up the path for truth in favor of a comforting irrationality, but judeochristian monotheism holds a special place in my cold, dark heart as the worst offenders of modern times. When what we see in these topics is conservative Christians using their religion as an excuse to harm others and rob them of their rights, is it so unreasonable for us to moan about how harmful religion is? You know, seeing as the examples of Christianity's harm are staring us right in the face?

I like this thread.

Alright, here is my point of view. I'm Catholic (like Christianity, but governed by the Vatican, and slightly differing beliefs. Just want to carify), I consider myself to be a liberal conservatve. More specificly, I tend to support conservatives on economic and governmental issues, and I'm more liberal towards most social issues. Not all, just most. For example, I'm all for equality, of all kind, racial, sexual, religious, etc.

In short, I'm what you would call a "moderate" catholic.

When it comes to religious debates, I tend to remain quiet. I think many of my fellow moderates and contemporaries do as well. (I mean, surely there's more then just a handful of religious people on this forum.) This is also true of tolerant Atheists. This means that most of the people making those biggoted comments and statements are the "My way or the highway," (that's what I call 'em) kind of people(again, true on both sides), and , unforunately, those people are the most vocal. And when people look over threads here, or anywhere really, they only see those kinds of people and what they have to say. Thus, atheists tend feel hated by the religious because of the "My way or the highway," religious going out and saying that they hate atheists while the rest just stand back and say nothing. Then us religious folk tend to feel hatred from atheists because the same thing happens to us.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that the internet, and indeed the world, would be a better place if those of us who gravitate to the center were more vocal.

/end rant

Huh, looking over this, I think I'm better at this then first I thought.

Stagnant:

Renegade-pizza:
I remember a topic a while back about why people vote Republican and pretty much all the responses mentioned Christianity and said bigotry involved.
Now be perfectly honest, is there just a hatred/bigotry towards this religion?

Hatred? Yes. Bigotry? No. The two need to be distinguished when talking about organizations that are consensual in nature. I hate the NSDAP, but I don't think anyone would call that bigotry. Similarly, I hate Christianity and what it stands for, but this is not born out of an irrational hatred, nor is it possible to classify "Christian" the same way you could classify "Black" or "Homosexual" - a person is christian by choice, and hating Christianity is, as such, hardly classifiable as bigotry.

And as for the hatred towards Christianity... Well, your group earned it! Christians have used their religion as an excuse to dehumanize and discriminate against others, to enslave, to take control of the public, and even to murder. And all this for the sake of a holy book that cannot even in theory be established as truth. I dislike all religions, largely because accepting them indicates giving up the path for truth in favor of a comforting irrationality, but judeochristian monotheism holds a special place in my cold, dark heart as the worst offenders of modern times. When what we see in these topics is conservative Christians using their religion as an excuse to harm others and rob them of their rights, is it so unreasonable for us to moan about how harmful religion is? You know, seeing as the examples of Christianity's harm are staring us right in the face?

You seem to forget all the good religion has done for humanity. MLK was a christian you know, and that's just one example.

Witty Name Here:

Renegade-pizza:
I remember a topic a while back about why people vote Republican and pretty much all the responses mentioned Christianity and said bigotry involved.
Now be perfectly honest, is there just a hatred/bigotry towards this religion?

Yes, I am a christian, but I'm open minded, believe in evolution, gay-marriage etc. and I despise fanatics who know horseshit about the religion.

EDIT: I don't mean just the fanatics, I got a vibe of a hatred towards the religion itself.

Well if there's one thing I learned from these forums, it's two things:

1.) There is "no such thing" as a moderate or liberal christian in the eyes of... The majority of people at least on the R&P forums, either you're a bigot, or you're misinformed about your own religious beliefs. It doesn't matter if you believe in evolution or equal rights for gays, you can only be a zealot who screams that every person everywhere is going to hell if you want to look even remotely close to a "christian" in their eyes.

and

2.) No matter how many allies you try to make or how well you try to clarify your point, the second you support any belief of the church or think [i]anything[i] less of Atheists, then you're instantly going to have at least five different people jump onto your point and go into long rants about your inherited bigotry like a bunch of vermin jumping onto a carcass.

So to answer your question, yes, I honestly believe there's a great deal of bigotry on these forums towards christians. The only thing you can do is become the bigot they want you to be or avoid these people as much as possible.

I thought you swore to never darken the door of these mean forums ever again? That we exist to drive you mad, and wah wah goodbye FOREVAH!

Well, that lasted about two minutes.

Zorg Machine:
I personally believe that religion is detrimental to the development of society and I also think that people who believe every word of the bible haven't actually read the bible.

Orthodox Jews sort of ruin that theory.

keinechance:

Seses209:

Show me one place where either the Bible or the Qur'an says that "Thou shalt blow thyself into smithereens so as to destroy thy enemies." Just one. One sentence. Please.

...I suggest you stop trying to be funny, and go here: http://www.evilbible.com/

I used to think that was a joke site - I remember a part where he claims the Bible passages referring to redemption of the firstborn (that's this) were commanding human sacrifice.

This went seven pages in under 12 hours.... 0_o

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:
You seem to forget all the good religion has done for humanity. MLK was a christian you know, and that's just one example.

What good has religion done for humanity? Okay, there's false hope, but all the rest was just people, doing things that people do.

That's what enables to argue religion being a universal negative: The bad consequences are directly tied to it, but the supposed positive consequences are just the actions of people, which they would also have taken without religion.

People will help others spontaneously without having to be told it's in their self-interest because it makes them a better believer.
People won't spontaneously go 'yeah, let's have a war about a fictional difference that makes no difference' without being told it's for some god or teaching.

Cakes:

keinechance:

Seses209:

Show me one place where either the Bible or the Qur'an says that "Thou shalt blow thyself into smithereens so as to destroy thy enemies." Just one. One sentence. Please.

...I suggest you stop trying to be funny, and go here: http://www.evilbible.com/

I used to think that was a joke site - I remember a part where he claims the Bible passages referring to redemption of the firstborn (that's this) were commanding human sacrifice.

If it is a joke, it definitely isn't funny.

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:

You seem to forget all the good religion has done for humanity. MLK was a christian you know, and that's just one example.

Well in fairness that's the man rather than the faith, and much of the methodology that he is remembered for was inspired by Mahatma Gandhi. Not to disparage Rev. King's faith, but one must be careful to distinguish great men who were christians from christianity's own impact. And ultimately when it comes to Civil Rights, christianity's net influence is kinda hazy, with both sides of the argument frequently citing faith to back up their positions.

keinechance:

Cakes:

keinechance:

...I suggest you stop trying to be funny, and go here: http://www.evilbible.com/

I used to think that was a joke site - I remember a part where he claims the Bible passages referring to redemption of the firstborn (that's this) were commanding human sacrifice.

If it is a joke, it definitely isn't funny.

Well, I thought it was just a parody of certain smug atheists.

Cakes:

keinechance:

Cakes:

I used to think that was a joke site - I remember a part where he claims the Bible passages referring to redemption of the firstborn (that's this) were commanding human sacrifice.

If it is a joke, it definitely isn't funny.

Well, I thought it was just a parody of certain smug atheists.

And do you still think it is a parody?

Blablahb:
This went seven pages in under 12 hours.... 0_o

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:
You seem to forget all the good religion has done for humanity. MLK was a christian you know, and that's just one example.

What good has religion done for humanity? Okay, there's false hope, but all the rest was just people, doing things that people do.

That's what enables to argue religion being a universal negative: The bad consequences are directly tied to it, but the supposed positive consequences are just the actions of people, which they would also have taken without religion.

People will help others spontaneously without having to be told it's in their self-interest because it makes them a better believer.
People won't spontaneously go 'yeah, let's have a war about a fictional difference that makes no difference' without being told it's for some god or teaching.

You may have a point. Still, in my eyes, we have been a benefit to society. Believe what you will, or will not, I'm no zealot, and I can see where you're coming from. However, I still think Christianity has done more good for the world then bad.

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:
However, I still think Christianity has done more good for the world then bad.

Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

keinechance:

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:
However, I still think Christianity has done more good for the world then bad.

Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

Sure. The Ten Commandments have been the blueprint for most of society since, well, ever. Brought to you with love by Christianity. (Well, in reallity the Ten Commandments is a Jewish concept, Christians just spread it.) Like I said, I won't think any less of you for believing something other then Christianity, so your welcome to call me an idiot and being nieve. In all honesty, I probably am.

keinechance:

Cakes:

keinechance:

If it is a joke, it definitely isn't funny.

Well, I thought it was just a parody of certain smug atheists.

And do you still think it is a parody?

I'm not sure. It seems way too elaborate, but then again, so are sites like Landover Baptist.

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:

keinechance:

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:
However, I still think Christianity has done more good for the world then bad.

Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

Sure. The Ten Commandments have been the blueprint for most of society since, well, ever. Brought to you with love by Christianity. (Well, in reallity the Ten Commandments is a Jewish concept, Christians just spread it.) Like I said, I won't think any less of you for believing something other then Christianity, so your welcome to call me an idiot and being nieve. In all honesty, I probably am.

I don't think you are an idiot, but I think you are overestimating the importance and morality of the Ten Commandments.

The 1. and 2. for example are basically only saying that YHWH is the only God and that you should have no other beside him. ( And guess what happens to you if you do )

Cakes:

keinechance:

Cakes:

Well, I thought it was just a parody of certain smug atheists.

And do you still think it is a parody?

I'm not sure. It seems way too elaborate, but then again, so are sites like Landover Baptist.

I suggest you take a bible and look up the cited passages for yourself.

Also I like to refer people who think that the God of the bible is a kind and loving God to:

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.de/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

keinechance:

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:
However, I still think Christianity has done more good for the world then bad.

I do, see below.
Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

Blablahb:

That's what enables to argue religion being a universal negative: The bad consequences are directly tied to it, but the supposed positive consequences are just the actions of people, which they would also have taken without religion.

You have to be kidding. Christianity is a major influence on any Christian's life. To say that they would have done the same things without that influence is ridiculous.

Anyone who says that religion, specifically Christianity is a universal negative is flat out ignoring history. The early scientists were Christians, because they believed that due to the existence of a rational creator God, the universe must be rationally intelligible.
Without that, why would they try to test and understand the world around them?

You may argue that the Greeks did just that, but they did not. Greek 'science' is one of pure logic and rhetoric. They completely lack empiricism; the foundation of modern science.

Indeed, it is due to Christianity that we have a lot of our information on the ancient Greeks; during the European Dark Ages the only people who were literate were Christians, since they had to be to read the Bible. They were the ones who copied out the Latin Classics and kept learning alive. They would not have done this if they were not Christians.

As I touched on previously, Medieval Christian thinkers insisted that God could have created the world any way he like and so Aristotle's insistence that the world was the way it was because it had to be was successfully challenged. This meant that his ideas started to be tested and abandoned if they did not measure up. The Greek way of thinking held science back, because it held 'if it's internally consistent then it MUST be true'; which often lead to theories that were completely wrong. (Like Aristotle's postulation that a heavy object falls faster than a lighter one).

If Christianity is as universally negative as you and others suppose, why is it that modern science and reason arose in a place where it was the dominant belief? And secondly, given that pretty much every one of the founders and pre-founders of science were quite devout why did they make the scientific breakthroughs?

I challenge you to find a Medieval European early scientist or natural philosopher that wasn't Christian.

Blablahb:
People will help others spontaneously without having to be told it's in their self-interest because it makes them a better believer.

What are you saying here? What do you mean by "Better believer"?

Blablahb:
People won't spontaneously go 'yeah, let's have a war about a fictional difference that makes no difference' without being told it's for some god or teaching.

Other teaching can include teachings with atheistic bases. Look at the deaths under Stalin, the absolute dictatorship of North Korea where one man is practically worshiped.

keinechance:

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:

keinechance:

Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

Sure. The Ten Commandments have been the blueprint for most of society since, well, ever. Brought to you with love by Christianity. (Well, in reallity the Ten Commandments is a Jewish concept, Christians just spread it.) Like I said, I won't think any less of you for believing something other then Christianity, so your welcome to call me an idiot and being nieve. In all honesty, I probably am.

I don't think you are an idiot, but I think you are overestimating the importance and morality of the Ten Commandments.

The 1. and 2. for example are basically only saying that YHWH is the only God and that you should have no other beside him. ( And guess what happens to you if you do )

Hmm... Good point. I gotta think of another good point. Hmm... I think I got one. This one probably isn't as good as the Ten Commandments point though. Oh Well. The vast majority of Christians are good honest hard-working members of society who try to make the future better than today. And in the end, isn't that the goal? I mean, MLK would have gotten nowhere without the support of the thousands of Christians, both black and white, that followed him. The same people he and so many other members of the clergy taught.

Boy, I used MLK twice. gotta get something else.

Deathmageddon:

everythingbeeps:
Yes, I hate the religion. I have a problem with all religions in general (in that they're complete fiction that I'm being forced to live with as if it was real), but I have a particular disdain for christianity because they're the ones trying to change laws in this country and make us live by their code.

So... someone has a gun to your head right now and is saying "believe or die"? If not, you're not being forced to think or do anything. It's a real shame that you feel oppressed by the mere existence of people who disagree with you.

By "changing laws" I assume you're talking about gay marriage and abortion. With the gay marriage issue, a lot of us feel that the government is trying to exercise power over our practices. I personally think that everybody is being really stupid about the whole thing. If the government would just replace the marriage license with a civil union (for both heterosexual and homosexual couples) and let churches, temples, mosques, etc. perform marriages (some parishes will no doubt offer to perform same-sex marriages), everybody wins. Homosexuals get approval from the government and the sacrament remains unaltered.

As for abortion, the pro-life position in itself has nothing to do with any religion. You don't need to believe in God to recognize human life. A zygote requires oxygen, nutrients, water, it can grow, and it can die, so it must be alive. It has a complete set of human DNA, so it must be human. Being pushed through a birth canal doesn't suddenly make you a person. (If you disagree with this last bit, google a c-section)

1. Well, no. They're not really saying "believe or die". Often as not, they treat us as lost causes, with open disdain. They constantly refer to this as a "christian nation", thus implying that all its citizens are christian, or at least should be. They misrepresent us to the rest of the world. They attract negative attention with their holier-than-thou bullshit.

2. Gay marriage and abortion, sure, but how about fucking contraception? Religious zealots in government are trying to make that shit illegal. Because of their ridiculous beliefs.

And your bullshit about the gay marriage issue being about "government trying to exercise power over our practices" is nonsense. This isn't the government forcing YOU to do anything. This is the government ALLOWING other people to do something that has nothing whatsoever to do with you. It's not more control, it's more freedom. I don't understand how this is so complicated.

I also refuse to acknowledge any solution to the gay marriage issue which pretends like marriage somehow belongs to religion. It doesn't. Religion hijacked it. Time to take it back, I think. Fuck sacraments. They're fiction. And your fiction has no business interfering in everyone else's life.

3. It's silly to say that "the pro-life position has nothing to do with religion". It's mostly because of religion, and the rest because of arbitrary zeal. Everyone has their own made-up definition for what makes something a "person". You know what else requires oxygen, water, and nutrients? A fucking tapeworm. As for "It has a complete set of human DNA, so it must be human", you are literally the first person I've ever seen try to make that argument. That's all it takes, huh? Really? You don't want to go with something more logical and credible like, I don't know, the "soul"? XD

keinechance:
I suggest you take a bible and look up the cited passages for yourself.

Also I like to refer people who think that the God of the bible is a kind and loving God to:

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.de/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

I study Torah, don't bother speaking to me as though I've never read my own book.

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:

keinechance:

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:

Sure. The Ten Commandments have been the blueprint for most of society since, well, ever. Brought to you with love by Christianity. (Well, in reallity the Ten Commandments is a Jewish concept, Christians just spread it.) Like I said, I won't think any less of you for believing something other then Christianity, so your welcome to call me an idiot and being nieve. In all honesty, I probably am.

I don't think you are an idiot, but I think you are overestimating the importance and morality of the Ten Commandments.

The 1. and 2. for example are basically only saying that YHWH is the only God and that you should have no other beside him. ( And guess what happens to you if you do )

Hmm... Good point. I gotta think of another good point. Hmm... I think I got one. This one probably isn't as good as the Ten Commandments point though. Oh Well. The vast majority of Christians are good honest hard-working members of society who try to make the future better than today. And in the end, isn't that the goal? I mean, MLK would have gotten nowhere without the support of the thousands of Christians, both black and white, that followed him. The same people he and so many other members of the clergy taught.

Boy, I used MLK twice. gotta get something else.

"The vast majority of -Christians- are good honest hard-working members of society who try to make the future better than today."

I agree with you on that.

"The vast majority of -Hindus- are good honest hard-working members of society who try to make the future better than today."

"The vast majority of -Bhuddists- are good honest hard-working members of society who try to make the future better than today."

"The vast majority of -Atheists- are good honest hard-working members of society who try to make the future better than today."

Do you see the part of the sentence that is the most important?

everythingbeeps:

Deathmageddon:

everythingbeeps:
Yes, I hate the religion. I have a problem with all religions in general (in that they're complete fiction that I'm being forced to live with as if it was real), but I have a particular disdain for christianity because they're the ones trying to change laws in this country and make us live by their code.

So... someone has a gun to your head right now and is saying "believe or die"? If not, you're not being forced to think or do anything. It's a real shame that you feel oppressed by the mere existence of people who disagree with you.

By "changing laws" I assume you're talking about gay marriage and abortion. With the gay marriage issue, a lot of us feel that the government is trying to exercise power over our practices. I personally think that everybody is being really stupid about the whole thing. If the government would just replace the marriage license with a civil union (for both heterosexual and homosexual couples) and let churches, temples, mosques, etc. perform marriages (some parishes will no doubt offer to perform same-sex marriages), everybody wins. Homosexuals get approval from the government and the sacrament remains unaltered.

As for abortion, the pro-life position in itself has nothing to do with any religion. You don't need to believe in God to recognize human life. A zygote requires oxygen, nutrients, water, it can grow, and it can die, so it must be alive. It has a complete set of human DNA, so it must be human. Being pushed through a birth canal doesn't suddenly make you a person. (If you disagree with this last bit, google a c-section)

1. Well, no. They're not really saying "believe or die". Often as not, they treat us as lost causes, with open disdain. They constantly refer to this as a "christian nation", thus implying that all its citizens are christian, or at least should be. They misrepresent us to the rest of the world. They attract negative attention with their holier-than-thou bullshit.

2. Gay marriage and abortion, sure, but how about fucking contraception? Religious zealots in government are trying to make that shit illegal. Because of their ridiculous beliefs.

And your bullshit about the gay marriage issue being about "government trying to exercise power over our practices" is nonsense. This isn't the government forcing YOU to do anything. This is the government ALLOWING other people to do something that has nothing whatsoever to do with you. It's not more control, it's more freedom. I don't understand how this is so complicated.

I also refuse to acknowledge any solution to the gay marriage issue which pretends like marriage somehow belongs to religion. It doesn't. Religion hijacked it. Time to take it back, I think. Fuck sacraments. They're fiction. And your fiction has no business interfering in everyone else's life.

3. It's silly to say that "the pro-life position has nothing to do with religion". It's mostly because of religion, and the rest because of arbitrary zeal. Everyone has their own made-up definition for what makes something a "person". You know what else requires oxygen, water, and nutrients? A fucking tapeworm. As for "It has a complete set of human DNA, so it must be human", you are literally the first person I've ever seen try to make that argument. That's all it takes, huh? Really? You don't want to go with something more logical and credible like, I don't know, the "soul"? XD

You're just as bad as the people you claim to be against. Could it be that you're really a Christian trying to make Atheists look bad?

keinechance:

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:

keinechance:

I don't think you are an idiot, but I think you are overestimating the importance and morality of the Ten Commandments.

The 1. and 2. for example are basically only saying that YHWH is the only God and that you should have no other beside him. ( And guess what happens to you if you do )

Hmm... Good point. I gotta think of another good point. Hmm... I think I got one. This one probably isn't as good as the Ten Commandments point though. Oh Well. The vast majority of Christians are good honest hard-working members of society who try to make the future better than today. And in the end, isn't that the goal? I mean, MLK would have gotten nowhere without the support of the thousands of Christians, both black and white, that followed him. The same people he and so many other members of the clergy taught.

Boy, I used MLK twice. gotta get something else.

"The vast majority of -Christians- are good honest hard-working members of society who try to make the future better than today."

I agree with you on that.

"The vast majority of -Hindus- are good honest hard-working members of society who try to make the future better than today."

"The vast majority of -Bhuddists- are good honest hard-working members of society who try to make the future better than today."

"The vast majority of -Atheists- are good honest hard-working members of society who try to make the future better than today."

Do you see the part of the sentence that is the most important?

Wow. Well, that's just about all I got. You win. We should do this again sometime. I enjoyed that.

Cakes:

keinechance:
I suggest you take a bible and look up the cited passages for yourself.

Also I like to refer people who think that the God of the bible is a kind and loving God to:

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.de/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

I study Torah, don't bother speaking to me as though I've never read my own book.

And you dispute all the atrocities done by God directly, or at his command, as written in your book?

keinechance:

Cakes:

keinechance:
I suggest you take a bible and look up the cited passages for yourself.

Also I like to refer people who think that the God of the bible is a kind and loving God to:

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.de/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

I study Torah, don't bother speaking to me as though I've never read my own book.

And you dispute all the atrocities done by God directly, or at his command, as written in your book?

What would those be?

everythingbeeps:
snip

While the idea that religion comes up as the main thing for abortions I definitely agree with, you can't say that that is the only reason. I see it not as a religious thing but as a human morality issue and how we treat our own kind. I mean, it could be the catholic influence on me, but to me, it is not religion but morality.

Chrisscogg_teh_Newbie:

Wow. Well, that's just about all I got. You win. We should do this again sometime. I enjoyed that.

If my arguments were good enough to make you think about your arguments, then great.

Stagnant:

Renegade-pizza:
I remember a topic a while back about why people vote Republican and pretty much all the responses mentioned Christianity and said bigotry involved.
Now be perfectly honest, is there just a hatred/bigotry towards this religion?

Hatred? Yes. Bigotry? No. The two need to be distinguished when talking about organizations that are consensual in nature. I hate the NSDAP, but I don't think anyone would call that bigotry. Similarly, I hate Christianity and what it stands for, but this is not born out of an irrational hatred, nor is it possible to classify "Christian" the same way you could classify "Black" or "Homosexual" - a person is christian by choice, and hating Christianity is, as such, hardly classifiable as bigotry.

And as for the hatred towards Christianity... Well, your group earned it! Christians have used their religion as an excuse to dehumanize and discriminate against others, to enslave, to take control of the public, and even to murder. And all this for the sake of a holy book that cannot even in theory be established as truth. I dislike all religions, largely because accepting them indicates giving up the path for truth in favor of a comforting irrationality, but judeochristian monotheism holds a special place in my cold, dark heart as the worst offenders of modern times. When what we see in these topics is conservative Christians using their religion as an excuse to harm others and rob them of their rights, is it so unreasonable for us to moan about how harmful religion is? You know, seeing as the examples of Christianity's harm are staring us right in the face?

sorry, let me phone my friend out in the north-bush and tell him to fly home. his christan belifs are only an exucuse to rob people of their rights, so he shouldent be running summer reading and writing programs for the native amaricans our country (canada) totaly impovreished through systematic discrimantion. I guess I should also stop my plans to head out as a voulenter on a mercy ship. The risk of christainity contaminating the international poor is to great. I should also tell the doctors, nurses and dentist who voulenter that they should stop as well. we might accidently sway someone while in the operating theater.

while i'm at it I should tell that group of christans out in tieland to stop trying to brake up the child sex slave rings in their country. they might hurt somebody.

we should also get urban promise out of camdan, new jersey. I might need some help with this one, they rebuilt alot of infistructure in a couple of areas. and those christain run homeless centers? they have got to go.

Cakes:

keinechance:

Cakes:

I study Torah, don't bother speaking to me as though I've never read my own book.

And you dispute all the atrocities done by God directly, or at his command, as written in your book?

What would those be?

For example God directly killing nearly all humans, animals and plants save those on Noah's ark by a worldwide flood?

It seems to me that the agnostics in this thread seem to be doing a bit of this:
image

But aside from that, Christianity is based on lies, which people proudly wear as truth, and that, is why I cannot respect Christianity, nor any other religion.

keinechance:
For example God directly killing nearly all humans, animals and plants save those on Noah's ark by a worldwide flood?

After giving them numerous chances (including the ENTIRE time Noah was conspicuously building an enormous ark) to repent? Yeah, how heartless.

Cakes:

After giving them numerous chances (including the ENTIRE time Noah was conspicuously building an enormous ark) to repent? Yeah, how heartless.

Rule of thumb; always listen to the guy with the massive boat.

Cakes:

keinechance:
For example God directly killing nearly all humans, animals and plants save those on Noah's ark by a worldwide flood?

After giving them numerous chances (including the ENTIRE time Noah was conspicuously building an enormous ark) to repent? Yeah, how heartless.

To repent?

For what?

For being exactly like your omnipotent and omniscient God made them?

Heartless doesn't even begin to describe this act of genocide.

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