Mike Turzai: Voter ID laws are meant to help Romney

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farson135:
Lots of things look suspicious. When I suspect one of my students might be cheating I do not run up and call him a cheater before I get all of the facts.

Your students aren't making decisions that affect millions of people. Public officials must be held to a higher degree of scrutiny. And I find it odd that a libertarian would complain about my lack of trust in a public official.

Clarify.

To spot noncitizens, though, the state began comparing voter rolls with a Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicle database that contains some citizenship information that the agency collects when people get a state ID such as a driver's license.

But the citizenship data in many cases is out of date. That is, many people become citizens after they get their ID and then register to vote. But the highway safety database isn't updated.

The pdf I linked earlier shows that cases alleging voter fraud frequently turn out to be a matter of bad matches. Using out of date records that are liable to create bad matches is a pretty shitty system.

How about your credibility with the other guys? Treating them like they are evil without even getting the facts in is NOT going to help your working relationship.

That's assuming that the Republicans crap like this want to work with people like me. Obama bent over backwards trying to work with the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, and they still opposed every single thing he did, even when he was putting forward ideas that they came up with.

Why don't you try explaining why it is wrong in a calm collective fashion and not call them liars before you get all the info?

In Rick Scott's case? Because he's a fucking crook and he doesn't deserve my respect or the benefit of the doubt.

Would it surprise you if I told you I do not give a shit? Demonizing tens if not hundreds of millions of people is not going to solve anything. I do not care what you want them to be. Cut that shit out.

Alright, let me put this another way. Over the last couple of years, the Republicans of the "big tent" they talked about during the Bush administration. Their new thing is party unity. Purity of ideology. Everyone in the party must vote the same way. They cannot have that and still complain when I say, "That's what Republicans do."

DrVornoff:
Your students aren't making decisions that affect millions of people. Public officials must be held to a higher degree of scrutiny.

So? Why exactly does that give you the right to demean people with impunity?

And I find it odd that a libertarian would complain about my lack of trust in a public official.

I do not like what the government does and I do not trust it but I also do not call millions of people "lying sacks of rat shit" because I think they might be lying.

To spot noncitizens, though, the state began comparing voter rolls with a Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicle database that contains some citizenship information that the agency collects when people get a state ID such as a driver's license.

But the citizenship data in many cases is out of date. That is, many people become citizens after they get their ID and then register to vote. But the highway safety database isn't updated.

The pdf I linked earlier shows that cases alleging voter fraud frequently turn out to be a matter of bad matches. Using out of date records that are liable to create bad matches is a pretty shitty system.

Actually, yes that does happen quite a bit. If you worked with computers and record keeping you would know about all of the inconsistencies that show up occasionally. As for bad processes, do you realize that the feds regularly are behind private business when it comes to utilizing technology? The Post Office only started using scanners relatively recently.

That's assuming that the Republicans crap like this want to work with people like me. Obama bent over backwards trying to work with the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, and they still opposed every single thing he did, even when he was putting forward ideas that they came up with.

Have you ever considered the idea that, insulting the other guy because he insulted you and he insulted you because you insulted him, and continuing the perpetual circle, is not going to help anything?

Alright, let me put this another way. Over the last couple of years, the Republicans of the "big tent" they talked about during the Bush administration. Their new thing is party unity. Purity of ideology. Everyone in the party must vote the same way. They cannot have that and still complain when I say, "That's what Republicans do."

The Dems do that shit as well. Seriously, do you not realize just how similar you guys are?

farson135:
So? Why exactly does that give you the right to demean people with impunity?

The right? I have the right to say whatever the fuck I want so long as I'm prepared to deal with the consequences of my actions. And so far it seems the only consequence of my action is it makes apologists cry.

I do not like what the government does and I do not trust it but I also do not call millions of people "lying sacks of rat shit" because I think they might be lying.

I know they're lying.

Actually, yes that does happen quite a bit. If you worked with computers and record keeping you would know about all of the inconsistencies that show up occasionally. As for bad processes, do you realize that the feds regularly are behind private business when it comes to utilizing technology? The Post Office only started using scanners relatively recently.

Oh, please. Don't dodge with that, "Government can't do anything right," bullshit talking point. That does not address what I brought up.

Have you ever considered the idea that, insulting the other guy because he insulted you and he insulted you because you insulted him, and continuing the perpetual circle, is not going to help anything?

I know their type. I've tried being nice with people like that and they walked all over me. If a Republican expresses a genuine desire to work together, then whoop-dee-doo! But of the ones like that have been primaried by a bunch of obstinate, boorish, arrogant Machiavellian whores.

The Dems do that shit as well. Seriously, do you not realize just how similar you guys are?

Don't. That's a false equivalency. Democrats engage in partisan fuckery, but nowhere near on the scale the Republicans do.

DrVornoff:
The right? I have the right to say whatever the fuck I want so long as I'm prepared to deal with the consequences of my actions. And so far it seems the only consequence of my action is it makes apologists cry.

Actually it ensures that the other guys will not work with you. YOU are a part of the problem. YOU are helping to ensure that nothing ever gets done.

I know they're lying.

Then prove it.

Oh, please. Don't dodge with that, "Government can't do anything right," bullshit talking point. That does not address what I brought up.

Actually It does. The government fucks up on a regular basis. It is sad that we can expect it but that does not change the facts of the case.

I know their type.

Does it surprise anyone that I have heard that argument before?

I've tried being nice with people like that and they walked all over me. If a Republican expresses a genuine desire to work together, then whoop-dee-doo! But of the ones like that have been primaried by a bunch of obstinate, boorish, arrogant Machiavellian whores.

And how many have you met? I have met plenty on both sides of the spectrum and y'all are no different.

Don't. That's a false equivalency. Democrats engage in partisan fuckery, but nowhere near on the scale the Republicans do.

And you are making a false dichotomy. Both of y'all are cut from the same fuck cloth. DO NOT try and tell me that you are superior because YOU ARE NOT. Y'all are the same and y'all need to get over yourselves and start getting along.

farson135:
Actually it ensures that the other guys will not work with you. YOU are a part of the problem. YOU are helping to ensure that nothing ever gets done.

How am I supposed to work with people who think I'm evil because I'm an atheist and other stupid things that make it difficult to so much as get greetings done?

The average person who is a conservative? Those people I can talk to. Elected officials who try to ram through personhood bills, put Creationism in classrooms, take massive donations from corporations and then deregulate them to repay the favor, and then never take responsibility for the consequences of their actions? Those people should be in prison.

Then prove it.

Where would you like me to start? Shall I start with that whore Governor Corbett?

Actually It does. The government fucks up on a regular basis. It is sad that we can expect it but that does not change the facts of the case.

No, you're just stonewalling me because you're so fucking jaded. You look at every fuck up and go, "I told you so." You don't propose a solution to any of it. All you do is bitch and gloat.

What Rick Scott is doing in Florida is the absolute worst way to go about this process. It's not because government can't do anything right. It's because he's not fit for public office.

Does it surprise anyone that I have heard that argument before?

Ask me if I care, see what happens.

And how many have you met? I have met plenty on both sides of the spectrum and y'all are no different.

I've met plenty on both sides, too. And I stand by my statement that the Republican party is shitting itself inside out.

And you are making a false dichotomy. Both of y'all are cut from the same fuck cloth. DO NOT try and tell me that you are superior because YOU ARE NOT. Y'all are the same and y'all need to get over yourselves and start getting along.

I never actually said I was superior. And guess what? Neither are you. I'm just calling it like I fucking see it. All you do is whine about the mean old doody-head on the internet saying bad things. On the internet.

If you honestly think this isn't a concerted effort by the GOP to get rid of traditionally Democratic voters, you are utterly fucking delusional.

And the idea that Farson isn't a "conservative" is laughable. When you carry water for the GOP at every conceivable turn ... well, if it quacks like a duck, as they say.

I agree that he said this not based on revealing some conspiracy trying to disenfranchise the poor, although that is an added benefit, but because of the partisan belief he holds that voter fraud is a trick that only benefits Democrats because of how badly they want to use it to corrupt the country.

Either way though the guy is scary.

Rustlin' Jimmies:

scotth266:

Mortai Gravesend:
Well I think he was just referring to that nonsensical idea that some conservatives like to see that voter fraud somehow exclusively helps Democrats.

Pretty much this.

Oh, what a fucking asshole.

Reince Priebus: That's right, the DNC appears to be standing up for potential fraud - presumably because ending it would disenfranchise at least two of its core constituencies: the deceased and double-voters.

He offers absolutely no evidence -- zero, none, nada -- of dead people voting or people voting more than once. No evidence exists that these actually happen on any appreciable level, and it plays into the Republican narrative that Democrats can only win elections by cheating, which is, yanno, a fucking lie. He's the head of the RNC, for fuck's sake. Why is "liberal" CNN giving this twat a platform to puke up Republican spin?

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be sarcasm.

DrVornoff:
How am I supposed to work with people who think I'm evil because I'm an atheist and other stupid things that make it difficult to so much as get greetings done?

You ever talk to some of these religious people? If they do not like your atheism then do not talk to them about it. What, do you think I engage the local preacher in a religious debate every time I see him? No, we talk about politics and such but stay away from religion. Try it some time.

Those people should be in prison.

That kind of attitude is not helpful.

Where would you like me to start?

How about by proving it.

Shall I start with that whore Governor Corbett?

Are you even interesting in working with the other side? If not then please go about your business and leave me alone.

No, you're just stonewalling me because you're so fucking jaded. You look at every fuck up and go, "I told you so." You don't propose a solution to any of it. All you do is bitch and gloat.

You did not ask for a solution.

What Rick Scott is doing in Florida is the absolute worst way to go about this process. It's not because government can't do anything right. It's because he's not fit for public office.

A similar process is used all over the US.

I've met plenty on both sides, too. And I stand by my statement that the Republican party is shitting itself inside out.

Sorry, but considering how partisan you are acting I cannot trust your word.

Do you see now? Acting so biased makes people less likely to listen to you.

I never actually said I was superior. And guess what? Neither are you. I'm just calling it like I fucking see it. All you do is whine about the mean old doody-head on the internet saying bad things. On the internet.

Actually I am telling you that you are not helping anything and are, in fact, making things worse. Don't like it? Then ignore me.

Rustlin' Jimmies:
If you honestly think this isn't a concerted effort by the GOP to get rid of traditionally Democratic voters, you are utterly fucking delusional.

Then prove it.

And the idea that Farson isn't a "conservative" is laughable. When you carry water for the GOP at every conceivable turn ... well, if it quacks like a duck, as they say.

Fuck the war in Iraq and fuck the Patriot Act. I will be happy to say more if you wish. Although I am sure it does not matter. You know what you want to believe and the facts will never change that.

Shock and Awe:

Rustlin' Jimmies:

scotth266:

Pretty much this.

Oh, what a fucking asshole.

Reince Priebus: That's right, the DNC appears to be standing up for potential fraud - presumably because ending it would disenfranchise at least two of its core constituencies: the deceased and double-voters.

He offers absolutely no evidence -- zero, none, nada -- of dead people voting or people voting more than once. No evidence exists that these actually happen on any appreciable level, and it plays into the Republican narrative that Democrats can only win elections by cheating, which is, yanno, a fucking lie. He's the head of the RNC, for fuck's sake. Why is "liberal" CNN giving this twat a platform to puke up Republican spin?

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be sarcasm.

I don't see any indication that it was.

farson135:
You ever talk to some of these religious people? If they do not like your atheism then do not talk to them about it. What, do you think I engage the local preacher in a religious debate every time I see him? No, we talk about politics and such but stay away from religion. Try it some time.

I've actually had to lie to a number of people about my religious leanings because I heard the way they talk about non-Christians.

That kind of attitude is not helpful.

If you violate laws, doesn't that technically make you a criminal?

Are you even interesting in working with the other side? If not then please go about your business and leave me alone.

Yes. Just not with assholes. Why do I have to play nice with people who oppose everything I stand for and refuse to give an inch because they think God told them to do this or because I'm not rich enough to give a large enough bribe-I-mean-campaign-contribution to sway their opinion.

You did not ask for a solution.

Do you have one that you didn't steal from a Hallmark greeting card?

A similar process is used all over the US.

Citation needed.

Sorry, but considering how partisan you are acting I cannot trust your word.

Do you see now? Acting so biased makes people less likely to listen to you.

So you're going to use the fact that you don't like me that proof that you were right all along? Please.

Actually I am telling you that you are not helping anything and are, in fact, making things worse. Don't like it? Then ignore me.

And how would you suggest I compromise with people who think that impoverished children don't need food stamps, Iran needs to be nuked, God wants them to discriminate against gay people, and that the scientific community is a giant conspiracy to bring about communism?

If I have to work with fringe-right conservatives, it's not kowtowing to their lunacy that gets me anywhere. It's tricking them into agreeing with me.

DrVornoff:
I've actually had to lie to a number of people about my religious leanings because I heard the way they talk about non-Christians.

Then apparently you shouldn't have mentioned religion at all.

If you violate laws, doesn't that technically make you a criminal?

You did not mention violating laws you mentioned actions you disagree with.

Yes. Just not with assholes. Why do I have to play nice with people who oppose everything I stand for and refuse to give an inch because they think God told them to do this or because I'm not rich enough to give a large enough bribe-I-mean-campaign-contribution to sway their opinion.

How about because you causing people to become more radical in their speech? Insulting people just causes them to tighten their ranks.

Do you have one that you didn't steal from a Hallmark greeting card?

Solution for what?

Citation needed.

Why don't you try reading up on the reason they are doing all of this- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_America_Vote_Act

So you're going to use the fact that you don't like me that proof that you were right all along? Please.

Actually, I do not give a shit about you. I do not know you and if I ever did meet you, your precedence would likely be beneath my notice. You act partisan so your word means nothing on that issue.

And how would you suggest I compromise with people who think that impoverished children don't need food stamps, Iran needs to be nuked, God wants them to discriminate against gay people, and that the scientific community is a giant conspiracy to bring about communism?

Start by talking to them and not treating them like they are lepers. From there maybe you will learn how ignorant your feels about them actually are.

I love how claiming that someone "acts partisan" all of a sudden makes their opinion null and void. Adorable.

farson135:
Then apparently you shouldn't have mentioned religion at all.

I didn't. They asked and I lied. Jesus, I know you think everyone other than you is a moron, but give me just a little credit.

You did not mention violating laws you mentioned actions you disagree with.

What Rick Scott's doing I believe is illegal.

How about because you causing people to become more radical in their speech? Insulting people just causes them to tighten their ranks.

So you want me to work with assholes who refuse to work with me?

Solution for what?

This partisan malarkey you've been banging on about.

Why don't you try reading up on the reason they are doing all of this- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_America_Vote_Act

That's not really proving me wrong.

Actually, I do not give a shit about you. I do not know you and if I ever did meet you, your precedence would likely be beneath my notice. You act partisan so your word means nothing on that issue.

If you have to tell me that you don't care in that many words, you do. Besides, if we met in real life, you would hate my guts. Two egomaniacs like us? We'd be at each other's throats in five minutes.

Start by talking to them and not treating them like they are lepers. From there maybe you will learn how ignorant your feels about them actually are.

Actually, I have little to no problem with real conservatives. People who actually understand conservative philosophy and acknowledge that we both want the same things. I just have a hard time with egomaniacs, Tea Party morons, fundamentalist weirdos, and stand-offish ideologues. My preference for dealing with them is not do it at all. I prefer to keep better company.

DrVornoff:
I didn't. They asked and I lied.

So you mentioned it.

Jesus, I know you think everyone other than you is a moron, but give me just a little credit.

Actually I don't think that.

What Rick Scott's doing I believe is illegal.

You believe? You got pissy at me for using that word not too long ago. Progress.

So you want me to work with assholes who refuse to work with me?

Maybe they do not work with you because they think you are an asshole. Ever think of that? As I said, it is a circle and if you treat people badly you will not get favorable treatment.

This partisan malarkey you've been banging on about.

I cannot do anything myself. I do not engage in that bullshit and I call out people, like yourself, who do it. This is an issue I cannot handle myself because it is an individual choice.

That's not really proving me wrong.

What is being done is being done all over the country.

If you have to tell me that you don't care in that many words, you do.

Actually, I am just a very wordy writer (I have to be).

Besides, if we met in real life, you would hate my guts. Two egomaniacs like us? We'd be at each other's throats in five minutes.

I doubt it. You maybe but I just do not care. If I can sit through the tirades I hear in class I can live with you. Besides, I do not get pissy about differences of opinion.

Actually, I have little to no problem with real conservatives. People who actually understand conservative philosophy and acknowledge that we both want the same things. I just have a hard time with egomaniacs, Tea Party morons, fundamentalist weirdos, and stand-offish ideologues. My preference for dealing with them is not do it at all. I prefer to keep better company.

And yet you say all of these things about REPUBLICANS.

farson135:
So you mentioned it.

I heard them talking crap on non-Christians. They then asked me with no prior setup if I was a Christian. So I lied in the interest of maintaining peace. What would you have me do?

Actually I don't think that.

Then act like it.

You believe? You got pissy at me for using that word not too long ago. Progress.

I'm trying not to be a dick about it. Besides, if we're being specific to Rick Scott, please keep in mind that I would trust an angry badger to not bite me way more than I would trust Rick Scott to run a state. He was convicted of the largest Medicare fraud in history and has been using his position as governor to shamelessly increase his own wealth (i.e. the mandatory drug testing laws for welfare recipients when his wife owns one of the largest drug testing companies in Florida).

Maybe they do not work with you because they think you are an asshole.

Yeah. Because I identify myself as things like a "liberal" or a "feminist" or "atheist" or "environmentalist." I can't run for public office because there are only 3 things about me the electorate as a whole would find agreeable: I'm a straight, white male.

Ever think of that? As I said, it is a circle and if you treat people badly you will not get favorable treatment.

Or maybe I just don't deal with these people at all and seek out the ones who aren't stupid.

I cannot do anything myself. I do not engage in that bullshit and I call out people, like yourself, who do it. This is an issue I cannot handle myself because it is an individual choice.

And you think pestering me is going to magically make me change all of my opinions? That I'm just going to bow down to your wisdom and realize the error of my ways?

What is being done is being done all over the country.

Bullshit. How many other states in the union are telling legitimate voters to prove that they are actually legitimate voters and then disenfranchising them if they do not respond within a certain time window?

Actually, I am just a very wordy writer (I have to be).

Still not buying it. Anyone who feels the need to tell another person how much they don't care, cares.

Besides, I do not get pissy about differences of opinion.

Dude, I'm a professional magician. I will always be better at lying than you. Don't try to compete with me.

And yet you say all of these things about REPUBLICANS.

How is it my fault that the Republican party is set on kowtowing to people like that?

DrVornoff:
I heard them talking crap on non-Christians. They then asked me with no prior setup if I was a Christian. So I lied in the interest of maintaining peace. What would you have me do?

I wouldn't have said anything. It is none of their business.

Then act like it.

I do.

Yeah. Because I identify myself as things like a "liberal" or a "feminist" or "atheist" or "environmentalist." I can't run for public office because there are only 3 things about me the electorate as a whole would find agreeable: I'm a straight, white male.

Or, maybe they would vote for you if you were an agreeable person.

Or maybe I just don't deal with these people at all and seek out the ones who I believe aren't stupid.

Fixed it for you.

For someone like you that is likely a short and very closed list.

And you think pestering me is going to magically make me change all of my opinions? That I'm just going to bow down to your wisdom and realize the error of my ways?

It would be nice if you stopping acting so holier than thou to people who simply disagree with you.

Bullshit. How many other states in the union are telling legitimate voters to prove that they are actually legitimate voters and then disenfranchising them if they do not respond within a certain time window?

Quite a few actually. The system does not work properly and there are plenty of glitches.

Still not buying it.

Big surprise. I am a fucking graduate student, eventually I am going to have to basically write a book that only a handful of people will ever read. Right now I just have to write a shit ton of papers that only two people will ever read.

Dude, I'm a professional magician. I will always be better at lying than you. Don't try to compete with me.

I don't. If you would actually stop and read some of my posts to others you see that quite clearly. Even on gun rights I can talk to many people who disagree without shouting.

How is it my fault that the Republican party is set on kowtowing to people like that?

How about because you are not acknowledging the fact that the Dems also fuck people over? In other words the government is fucking people over and not just one party.

farson135:
I wouldn't have said anything. It is none of their business.

So I should be rude and refuse to answer the question?

I do.

No you don't.

Or, maybe they would vote for you if you were an agreeable person.

Oh, I can be quite friendly when I choose to. But when issues like environmentalism, feminism, and not acting like a shithead to poor people have been pointlessly turned into a left vs. right debate, there's not a whole hell of a lot I can do.

Fixed it for you.

Is this one of those odd jobs you expect to get paid for?

For someone like you that is likely a short and very closed list.

Again, I'm actually very personable. You just haven't done anything to earn my respect.

It would be nice if you stopping acting so holier than thou to people who simply disagree with you.

Back atcha.

Quite a few actually. The system does not work properly and there are plenty of glitches.

Citation needed.

Big surprise. I am a fucking graduate student, eventually I am going to have to basically write a book that only a handful of people will ever read. Right now I just have to write a shit ton of papers that only two people will ever read.

And this has what do with what?

I don't. If you would actually stop and read some of my posts to others you see that quite clearly. Even on gun rights I can talk to many people who disagree without shouting.

I never said you can't. Just that lately you frequently choose not to.

I should amend my accusation though. It's not a lie if you actually believe it.

How about because you are not acknowledging the fact that the Dems also fuck people over? In other words the government is fucking people over and not just one party.

Oh boy, here we go. "The other side does it too!!"

Do you know why I vote Democrat? Because they're not Republicans. The Democrats suck, but at least they're not fucking bonkers. That's a terrible way to vote, I don't deny it. But that's where we stand.

farson135:
How about because you are not acknowledging the fact that the Dems also fuck people over? In other words the government is fucking people over and not just one party.

I'd love to hear examples of that.

Oh, and before a misunderstanding follows, obviously 'examples' that come from conservative dogma don't count, so no Obamacare, taxation, essential environmental or safety regulations etc.

I really want to hear how the democrats are supposedly as bad as the republicans with their open war on women, atheists, homosexuals and pretty much anyone else outside of themselves.

A bit of wise advice I heard on another forum: "When you find yourself breaking someone's posts down sentence-by-sentence for rebuttal, you're probably FAR past the point of productive debate."

Blablahb:

I really want to hear how the democrats are supposedly as bad as the republicans with their open war on women, atheists, homosexuals and pretty much anyone else outside of themselves.

LIBRULS are the REAL RACISTS because Senator Byrd (who publicly recanted and who died two years ago) used to be in the Ku Klux Klan! And they keep calling racists racist, which is LOTS WORSE than being racist is!!!@!

DrVornoff:
So I should be rude and refuse to answer the question?

So, you cannot think of any way to decline to answer a question without being rude?

No you don't.

Your opinion but you are wrong

Oh, I can be quite friendly when I choose to. But when issues like environmentalism, feminism, and not acting like a shithead to poor people have been pointlessly turned into a left vs. right debate, there's not a whole hell of a lot I can do.

Acting in a shitty manner towards people is not going to win any debates.

Again, I'm actually very personable.

Then act like it (how do you like that bullshit argument applied to you).

You just haven't done anything to earn my respect.

I do not know you and I neither need nor want your respect.

And this has what do with what?

You told me that I care because I write a lot.

Do you know why I vote Democrat? Because they're not Republicans. The Democrats suck, but at least they're not fucking bonkers. That's a terrible way to vote, I don't deny it. But that's where we stand.

So in other words you are a partisan who looks down on millions of people. I have never straight ticketed voted in my life. Hell, I have voted against my own party (the Libertarian Party) on several occasions.

Blablahb:

farson135:
How about because you are not acknowledging the fact that the Dems also fuck people over? In other words the government is fucking people over and not just one party.

I'd love to hear examples of that.

Oh, and before a misunderstanding follows, obviously 'examples' that come from conservative dogma don't count, so no Obamacare, taxation, essential environmental or safety regulations etc.

I really want to hear how the democrats are supposedly as bad as the republicans with their open war on women, atheists, homosexuals and pretty much anyone else outside of themselves.

Considering the number of women, homosexuals and atheists in the GOP's ranks, you do not know what you are talking about.

How about the expansion of the Patriot Act and the new wars. I could go one but knowing you, everything I say is a dogma, so it would be a waste of time.

farson135:
So, you cannot think of any way to decline to answer a question without being rude?

I think it's rude to not answer the question at all. So I lied. Of course, as a non-Christian and a professional magician, I'm okay with that. Are you?

Your opinion but you are wrong

Prove it.

Acting in a shitty manner towards people is not going to win any debates.

I would take that more seriously were I actually interested in debating crazy people.

Then act like it (how do you like that bullshit argument applied to you).

My respect must be earned. You haven't earned it.

I do not know you and I neither need nor want your respect.

Then quit bitching that you don't have it.

You told me that I care because I write a lot.

No, I said you care because you had to go to that length to explain to me that you don't. "Methinks you doth protest too much," and all that jazz.

I have never straight ticketed voted in my life.

I used to vote for some of the Republicans. But the ones I liked are gone because of this purity of ideology bullshit the Tea Party insisted on. They got eliminated in the primaries. How is this my fault?

Honestly, chill on the hostility. Calling me a partisan hack is doing no one any favors because you just look holier-than-thou. To repeat, the Republican party has for the last decade or so insisted on all of their members voting lockstep on every single issue. You don't get to do that and then bitch when I roll my eyes and say, "Typical." And if you have a problem with that, I'll send a card as soon as I start giving a shit about your impotent whining.

DrVornoff:
I think it's rude to not answer the question at all. So I lied.

So you simply will not politely refuse to answer a question. Not my fault.

I'm okay with that. Are you?

Lying? I prefer to make a habit out of it. A scout is trustworthy.

I would take that more seriously were I actually interested in debating crazy people.

They are a lot less crazy when viewed through an objective lens.

I used to vote for some of the Republicans. But the ones I liked are gone because of this purity of ideology bullshit the Tea Party insisted on. They got eliminated in the primaries. How is this my fault?

They didn't. You view of the Republicans may have changed but they have not.

Honestly, chill on the hostility. Calling me a partisan hack is doing no one any favors because you just look holier-than-thou. To repeat, the Republican party has for the last decade or so insisted on all of their members voting lockstep on every single issue. You don't get to do that and then bitch when I roll my eyes and say, "Typical." And if you have a problem with that, I'll send a card as soon as I start giving a shit about your impotent whining.

You know who also demands people walk in lock step behind the party line? Democrats. This is why you are a partisan, you do not care about the fact that the other guys are fucking you over. As long as you can attack the GOP for it you will ignore in in the DNC.

farson135:
So you simply will not politely refuse to answer a question. Not my fault.

Meh.

Lying? I prefer to make a habit out of it. A scout is trustworthy.

Your problem, not mine. I personally left the Boy Scouts after all the emotional abuse I received from my fellows. And I never wanted to go back after the whole gay marriage thing came about.

I'm more inclined to follow the Japanese idea of honne and tatamae. Look it up.

They are a lot less crazy when viewed through an objective lens.

Among the rank and file voters? Sure. The ones holding highly influential elected office? Not so much.

They didn't. You view of the Republicans may have changed but they have not.

So I misinterpreted my own opinion then?

You know who also demands people walk in lock step behind the party line? Democrats. This is why you are a partisan, you do not care about the fact that the other guys are fucking you over. As long as you can attack the GOP for it you will ignore in in the DNC.

Yawn. I never said I actually liked the Democrats. Bunch of spineless, capitulating, wishy-washing wimps who never take a stand on anything important. But they're not as crazy as the Republican party has become, so I'm going with the lesser of two evils. And no, the Democrats are not "just as bad." The current gridlock? That's the fault of the Republicans and these Tea Party psychopaths.

How about you actually ask me what my opinion is before you presume to tell me what it is? Until you can learn to do that, quit wasting my time.

DrVornoff:
I'm more inclined to follow the Japanese idea of honne and tatamae.

If you are that unwilling to be true to yourself then it is no wonder you cannot live up to the 12 points.

Yawn. I never said I actually liked the Democrats. Bunch of spineless, capitulating, wishy-washing wimps who never take a stand on anything important. But they're not as crazy as the Republican party has become, so I'm going with the lesser of two evils. And no, the Democrats are not "just as bad." The current gridlock? That's the fault of the Republicans and these Tea Party psychopaths.

Apparently you are still willing to ignore the Dems atrocities and focus on the GOP. Still partisan and still unhelpful.

farson135:
If you are that unwilling to be true to yourself then it is no wonder you cannot live up to the 12 points.

You didn't Google those words, did you? As for "cannot live up to the 12 points" maybe I just think moralizers are a bunch of hypocritical, self-important snakes. The brighter the picture, the darker the negative.

Apparently you are still willing to ignore the Dems atrocities and focus on the GOP. Still partisan and still unhelpful.

Atrocities? That's a pretty strong word. Are we talking Love Canal bad? Or Unit 317 bad? Or something in between maybe? You'll have to be a bit specific here. I mean, other than calling certain members of the Bush administration and Oliver North war criminals, I haven't actually accused the Republicans of committing atrocities. At worst, I've called certain members of party fascists. And not in the pop culture sense either. I mean that certain members of the GOP seem to have more in common with the political philosophy of Italian fascism than any sane conservative should. That doesn't mean however that they have committed atrocities.

DrVornoff:
You didn't Google those words, did you?

I already know what they are and they are bullshit.

As for "cannot live up to the 12 points" maybe I just think moralizers are a bunch of hypocritical, self-important snakes. The brighter the picture, the darker the negative.

So your dislike of someone means you can abandon your own morality. Very convenient for a serial killer, but not very helpful when having a political discussion.

Atrocities? That's a pretty strong word. Are we talking Love Canal bad? Or Unit 317 bad? Or something in between maybe? You'll have to be a bit specific here. I mean, other than calling certain members of the Bush administration and Oliver North war criminals, I haven't actually accused the Republicans of committing atrocities. At worst, I've called certain members of party fascists. And not in the pop culture sense either. I mean that certain members of the GOP seem to have more in common with the political philosophy of Italian fascism than any sane conservative should. That doesn't mean however that they have committed atrocities.

I think a continuation of a perpetual state of war is a significant atrocity.

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