If The Bible is right - We're all going to hell anyway?

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Even the most devout christians probably are because they tend to pick and choose what they want to follow and there are quite a few evil, illegal or just plain unreasonable requests in there..For example it says somewhere that inside the church (referring to the building) woman are not allowed to speak and have to pretty much sit down and shut up..

I dont personally believe in this stuff but in no way do I disrespect those who do(except when they try and force their personal beliefs on others)

Bonus Question: Have a whopper of passage than you know of?

If the Bible is right...

Well, let's just say I'm up shit creek, if that was the case. I hear us non-believers are frowned upon by the Big Guy up top. Hopefully He'll accept a "Whoops, looks like I was wrong" excuse when the time comes. If not, party in Hell with George Carlin it is. It's actually rather comforting knowing that the latter would be my preferred choice.

The Bible features so many contradictions that if it turns out it's true even the most devout Christians will burn.

People forget the Bible was written by men, not god, and each and every one of those men had their own ideas and intentions when they were writing.

Hunter65416:
Snip

In all honesty, everyone has a set of beliefs despite if most follow one path of a religion or follow the good morals of mankind that doesn't involve religion. Ether way, I would like to say that the Christian bible has discarded the old testament because someone who has never sinned died for our sins and that is Jesus.

You don't have to believe that, nor think Jesus is our holy savor for I understand how life can make us question such things from one verse to another if looking in the bible that was written by man. However, I think ignoring a verse won't give you the ticket to heck depending on your purpose in ignoring it. Doesn't mean it's justified but let's look at it this way and hopefully I can describe this well enough for all to understand.

The bible says "No man shall sleep with another man" which is used around a lot, but.. the bible also says "No man shall sleep with a woman until wed". To me, that says God doesn't want us sleeping with anyone until marriage and yet regardless of your beliefs if homosexuality is right or not.. most people sleep with someone before they're married if ever planning to be wed. Because of this, no one is perfect therefore everyone IS bound to heck. However, because (if you believe this) Jesus died on the cross for everyone, asking for forgiveness is a ticket to avoid that horrible fate in the afterlife. But see it's wrong of me to tell people who aren't religious that they're going to heck- because for all I know I could be heading there myself if I do not live right.

Religion is a touchy if not 'flame ensured on the forums' topic and no one likes listening to certain aspects like how to make it to heaven by a religious person's standpoint. But I wanted to go into this deeply because the OP made a good point that since people pick and choose verses to ignore- ignoring important ones if not all grants us a mark to miss heaven if you're a believer. Yet, my answer reflects on a religious belief of Jesus being the bridge to cover why not everyone shall be doomed to heck like the logical side would say. So yeah, overall it's based on what you make of the bible and taking in verses for it's deeper roots. If I said anything confusing or off please do forgive me I tend to write what I think.

You know the whole Jesus dying for your sins thing? Yeah, that was so people can sin and as long as they ask for forgiveness, still go to heaven.

Simple as that, really.

Of course, people also have tons of varying opinions on the Bible and such.

And out of curiosity, I'm just wondering why other religious books are never questioned...

Grathius22:
You know the whole Jesus dying for your sins thing? Yeah, that was so people can sin and as long as they ask for forgiveness, still go to heaven.

Simple as that, really.

Of course, people also have tons of varying opinions on the Bible and such.

And out of curiosity, I'm just wondering why other religious books are never questioned...

They are, it's just that those religions aren't as big in western society as Christianity so they don't get as much attention.

Grathius22:
You know the whole Jesus dying for your sins thing? Yeah, that was so people can sin and as long as they ask for forgiveness, still go to heaven.

Simple as that, really.

Of course, people also have tons of varying opinions on the Bible and such.

And out of curiosity, I'm just wondering why other religious books are never questioned...

ignoring that the whole jesus died for our sins interpretation is really really pushing the boundaries and probably was only spread because it sounds good and allows people to sin so it is popular.

if it indeed true that you can sin and still go to heaven then what is the point of living a life free of sin. if all hitler has to do to get into heaven is say sorry then why bother living such a restricted and controlled life.

personally i am not going to ask for forgiveness, heaven sounds like a terrible place. thankfully the chance of it actually existing is pretty much as close to 0 as you can get.

"The Bible"? Whose Bible?

IMHO, any religion should make very sure to have their own Holy TExt, there can be lots of overlap with other religions, but you still need to pick and choose the important parts, though that's a hell of a job, and you'd need lots of revisions (which would cause schisms).

The christian bible is a very contradictory and poor work of human fiction (still a better love story than Twilight), so just believe in whatever distracts you from the thought that both you and the universe you currently exist within will likely die one day. Religion is just a multipurpose tool invented by humans anyway: It can be used to bind a group together, give legitimacy to the ruling class in a society, alleviate depression or confusion among humans regarding their place in the universe, the meaning of their lives and what will happen to them after death, as well as many other things. Luckily, since all faiths base their doctrines and beliefs on random guesswork, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't particularly matter which exact faith or beliefs you decide to subscribe to.

thaluikhain:
"The Bible"? Whose Bible?

IMHO, any religion should make very sure to have their own Holy TExt, there can be lots of overlap with other religions, but you still need to pick and choose the important parts, though that's a hell of a job, and you'd need lots of revisions (which would cause schisms).

Why would you need a book to believe in a transcendental being.

Cowpoo:

thaluikhain:
"The Bible"? Whose Bible?

IMHO, any religion should make very sure to have their own Holy TExt, there can be lots of overlap with other religions, but you still need to pick and choose the important parts, though that's a hell of a job, and you'd need lots of revisions (which would cause schisms).

Why would you need a book to believe in a transcendental being.

Ok, technically you don't, but if you have an organised religion, you should probably start writing stuff down about it.

thaluikhain:

Cowpoo:

thaluikhain:
"The Bible"? Whose Bible?

IMHO, any religion should make very sure to have their own Holy TExt, there can be lots of overlap with other religions, but you still need to pick and choose the important parts, though that's a hell of a job, and you'd need lots of revisions (which would cause schisms).

Why would you need a book to believe in a transcendental being.

Ok, technically you don't, but if you have an organised religion, you should probably start writing stuff down about it.

I think that's one of the causes of most religious intolerance, especially from atheists towards believers (and I'm an atheist).

The only thing you need for religion, is to believe. Seems fucking simple, but people always shove ideology into their religion (or rather, the other way around).

Cowpoo:

thaluikhain:

Cowpoo:

Why would you need a book to believe in a transcendental being.

Ok, technically you don't, but if you have an organised religion, you should probably start writing stuff down about it.

I think that's one of the causes of most religious intolerance, especially from atheists towards believers (and I'm an atheist).

The only thing you need for religion, is to believe. Seems fucking simple, but people always shove ideology into their religion (or rather, the other way around).

Possibly we are working from different definitions. The only thing required for faith is belief, yes, but to me, a religion is a number of people believing the same thing.


That's one big if.

Hunter65416:
Even the most devout christians probably are because they tend to pick and choose what they want to follow and there are quite a few evil, illegal or just plain unreasonable requests in there..For example it says somewhere that inside the church (referring to the building) woman are not allowed to speak and have to pretty much sit down and shut up..

I dont personally believe in this stuff but in no way do I disrespect those who do(except when they try and force their personal beliefs on others)

Bonus Question: Have a whopper of passage than you know of?

If the bible is right, then the universe will implode, because logic says that something can't be true and untrue at the same time (what I am saying is that the Bible is contradictory at many times, so the "bible" can't be 100% "right" at all times).

If, however, we assume that the theories put forth by many Christian theologers are correct (Anslem, Augustinus, Aquina, etc), then we are all probably going to heaven.
Why?
Because God is A: Omnibenevolent ("All-good"), B: Omnipresent ("Everywhere"), C: Omniscient ("All-knowing").
Now imagine such a being, and imagine it being a petty person that punishes far less perfect beings (i.e humans) to eternal torment (hell) for simply failing to live up to his standards. Does that seem like an "all-good" being to you?
Even the most perverted and foul human probably has some good in him, and since God always forgives and loves us all, this person too will go to heaven (unless he makes a fully informed decision to not go, since you know, Free Will and all).

Don't forget you can just ask for forgiveness, which is really bullshitting your way out of things if you ask me. The people writing the bible were really set on leaving a back door open somewhere.

Always remember: I prayed and asked God for a bicycle. But then I realized God doesn't work like that, so I stole a bicycle instead and asked for forgiveness.

No offense but where in Christianity does it say that we're supposed to follow the bible word for word?

I'm serious here, the bible is usually used as a moral guide, yet is there any passage that says specifically those who don't follow the bible (not God's teachings, but the real physical bible) are going to hell?

At worst, you may passages saying "If they ignore God's commands, they're going to rot in the fires of hell" however "God's Word" can be a rather vague statement. Is it the bible as the whole? Just the Ten Commandments? The Beatitudes? Jesus' teachings? What?

Personally, this is why I mostly just choose to follow Jesus' teachings above all others. While I don't like the idea of "Picking and Choosing" passages, the faith itself is called Christianity, we worship Christ and God, not the bible itself.

Witty Name Here:
No offense but where in Christianity does it say that we're supposed to follow the bible word for word?

I'm serious here, the bible is usually used as a moral guide, yet is there any passage that says specifically those who don't follow the bible (not God's teachings, but the real physical bible) are going to hell?

At worst, you may passages saying "If they ignore God's commands, they're going to rot in the fires of hell" however "God's Word" can be a rather vague statement. Is it the bible as the whole? Just the Ten Commandments? The Beatitudes? Jesus' teachings? What?

Personally, this is why I mostly just choose to follow Jesus' teachings above all others. While I don't like the idea of "Picking and Choosing" passages, the faith itself is called Christianity, we worship Christ and God, not the bible itself.

A lot of people point to that passage in John that says that people need to embrace Jesus and that will save you.

Marik2:

A lot of people point to that passage in John that says that people need to embrace Jesus and that will save you.

But... Jesus isn't a book...

I embrace Jesus in that I (try at least to) follow his teachings on morality, yet that doesn't necessarily mean I have to accept the rest of the bible in it's entirety or else I'm going to hell, does it?

i guess that depends on the christian sect and their interpretations and rules. if we go by traditional fire and brimstone standrads, yes we will. if you look at the mormon beliefs, no one will go to hell except those that reject god to his face.

You know, I am at a loss for words.

But look at it this way: Yeshua's (Jesus) sacrifice is a rather easy method to gaining God's acceptance. I mean, who has lived a perfect life, who CAN live a perfect life? It's more about trying to turn away from wrongdoing, accept love, care for others, then merely "sinning whenever we want and asking for forgiveness later".

It's also about showing respect for God. Human beings do wicked things all the time, make up their own justifications for things, see things through immoral eyes, show greed, lust... it hinders who they can actually become. It makes them less complete.

Look into it with an open-minded perspective, and you will see it.

The world is a complex place.
That is all I will say.

- Signed. Former atheist/satanist.

Hunter65416:
Even the most devout christians probably are because they tend to pick and choose what they want to follow and there are quite a few evil, illegal or just plain unreasonable requests in there..For example it says somewhere that inside the church (referring to the building) woman are not allowed to speak and have to pretty much sit down and shut up..

I dont personally believe in this stuff but in no way do I disrespect those who do(except when they try and force their personal beliefs on others)

Bonus Question: Have a whopper of passage than you know of?

If the Bible is right then the universe is just one big joke.
It basically says that the universe is made for us so it being as big as it is is just god saying "fuck you, you'll never get there, hahaha!"
If the Bible is right then the creator of all things is a primitive and violent moron who makes up arbitrary rules for his creations to follow, just to fuck with them some more.
If the Bible is right then the meaning of life is to be an eternal property of an immortal all powerful tyrant.

I personally do not respect believers because I find their beliefs to be silly and harmful, if applied to reality, and if they don't apply (or at least try to apply) their beliefs to reality then I don't think that they really believe all that stuff.

Arsen:
I mean, who has lived a perfect life, who CAN live a perfect life?

If you think about it, not even god has had a perfect existence.
For example, him flooding the Earth is him saying "I fucked up, gotta start over". That's called making a mistake, that's called being flawed. Also, the way he handled the problem is far from perfect.

Arsen:
Human beings do wicked things all the time, make up their own justifications for things

So does god.

Ickorus:
The Bible features so many contradictions that if it turns out it's true even the most devout Christians will burn.

People forget the Bible was written by men, not god, and each and every one of those men had their own ideas and intentions when they were writing.

That is actually a complete myth - the Bible does not contain flagrant contradictions. I beg of you, cite two verses in context which directly contradict each other. On average, atheists are as intellectually dishonest and sophomoric as creationists. The Bible doesn't defeat itself, nor does the Qur'an.

JWC1993:

Ickorus:
The Bible features so many contradictions that if it turns out it's true even the most devout Christians will burn.

People forget the Bible was written by men, not god, and each and every one of those men had their own ideas and intentions when they were writing.

That is actually a complete myth - the Bible does not contain flagrant contradictions. I beg of you, cite two verses in context which directly contradict each other. On average, atheists are as intellectually dishonest and sophomoric as creationists. The Bible doesn't defeat itself, nor does the Qur'an.

I'm not an Atheist.

I'll just link this website and be done with it, like you say there are some taken way out of context but there are others which are pretty solid.

HardkorSB:
If the Bible is right then the universe is just one big joke.
It basically says that the universe is made for us so it being as big as it is is just god saying "fuck you, you'll never get there, hahaha!"
If the Bible is right then the creator of all things is a primitive and violent moron who makes up arbitrary rules for his creations to follow, just to fuck with them some more.
If the Bible is right then the meaning of life is to be an eternal property of an immortal all powerful tyrant.

So God is basically me when I play The Sims then?

Hunter65416:
Even the most devout christians probably are because they tend to pick and choose what they want to follow and there are quite a few evil, illegal or just plain unreasonable requests in there..For example it says somewhere that inside the church (referring to the building) woman are not allowed to speak and have to pretty much sit down and shut up..

I dont personally believe in this stuff but in no way do I disrespect those who do(except when they try and force their personal beliefs on others)

Bonus Question: Have a whopper of passage than you know of?

But on the other hand Jezus died for our sins according to the bible basically implying that everyone should go to heaven since our sins have been "purged"(?).

And if you're catholic it's pretty clear: all you need to do is confess.

If anything Christianity is too forgiving. (at least much much more than extremists would want people to believe)

Ickorus:

JWC1993:

Ickorus:
The Bible features so many contradictions that if it turns out it's true even the most devout Christians will burn.

People forget the Bible was written by men, not god, and each and every one of those men had their own ideas and intentions when they were writing.

That is actually a complete myth - the Bible does not contain flagrant contradictions. I beg of you, cite two verses in context which directly contradict each other. On average, atheists are as intellectually dishonest and sophomoric as creationists. The Bible doesn't defeat itself, nor does the Qur'an.

I'm not an Atheist.

I'll just link this website and be done with it, like you say there are some taken way out of context but there are others which are pretty solid.

Citing a source is not an argument, I can link you to an entire pantheon of Biblical refutation sites claiming the legitimacy of said contradictions. So just pick one that isn't out of context. The argument from biblical inconsistency is held virtually exclusively by people who've not read the Bible, or are confirming their biases in place of genuine inquiry.

Arsen:

- Signed. Former atheist/satanist.

How did you manage both of these at once? Or was one right after the other?

JWC1993:

Ickorus:
The Bible features so many contradictions that if it turns out it's true even the most devout Christians will burn.

People forget the Bible was written by men, not god, and each and every one of those men had their own ideas and intentions when they were writing.

That is actually a complete myth - the Bible does not contain flagrant contradictions. I beg of you, cite two verses in context which directly contradict each other. On average, atheists are as intellectually dishonest and sophomoric as creationists. The Bible doesn't defeat itself, nor does the Qur'an.

Eye for an eye v. Turn the other cheek?

NuclearShadow:
I don't think the bible deserves a "if" such a word gives it at-least of credibility that it may be correct which simply is not the case. This is no different than saying what if the flying spaghetti monster was real. Any fictional character can be added to the list deity or not.

arbane:

Arsen:

- Signed. Former atheist/satanist.

How did you manage both of these at once? Or was one right after the other?

I call BS. It's often a tactic by the religious to claim such things or things like satanic ritual abuse.

And none of you know what you're talking about. The vast majority of Satanists nowadays follow LaVeyan Satanism, which isn't so much a religion as it is a philosophy. It's essentially a guide to be a self-serving arrogant asshole who may or may not believe in magic.

PrinceOfShapeir:

NuclearShadow:
I don't think the bible deserves a "if" such a word gives it at-least of credibility that it may be correct which simply is not the case. This is no different than saying what if the flying spaghetti monster was real. Any fictional character can be added to the list deity or not.

arbane:

How did you manage both of these at once? Or was one right after the other?

I call BS. It's often a tactic by the religious to claim such things or things like satanic ritual abuse.

And none of you know what you're talking about. The vast majority of Satanists nowadays follow LaVeyan Satanism, which isn't so much a religion as it is a philosophy. It's essentially a guide to be a self-serving arrogant asshole who may or may not believe in magic.

Going through posts (history class is dull) they seem to have been a Christian for their entire time on this forum. They also appear to be a fundamentalist of a sort. They also said they were exactly the type of atheist you mentioned in at least one post well over a year ago. This is what I do because I have no life.

the abyss gazes also:

JWC1993:

Ickorus:
The Bible features so many contradictions that if it turns out it's true even the most devout Christians will burn.

People forget the Bible was written by men, not god, and each and every one of those men had their own ideas and intentions when they were writing.

That is actually a complete myth - the Bible does not contain flagrant contradictions. I beg of you, cite two verses in context which directly contradict each other. On average, atheists are as intellectually dishonest and sophomoric as creationists. The Bible doesn't defeat itself, nor does the Qur'an.

Eye for an eye v. Turn the other cheek?

both are examples of quote taken out of context and their meaning lost because of it.

Eye for an eye doesn't justify violence only what can potentially be deemed proportional, Ie the farthest you can go to get revenge for a lost eye is to take an eye. Any further and you have lost any case for justification.

Turn the other cheek is an idiom that takes some effort to explain properly. Go find someone you know and ask them to backhand you across the face (as is, then and now, used when insulting someone's honor and pride). What cheek did he/she hit? Probably the right cheek, correct? Now ask that same person to deck you (for pretend, of course). Which cheek did he/she hit? Probably your left, right? Turning one's cheek means rather than throwing the first punch, you present your left cheek to be hit, challenging you enemy to put up or shut up. In modern times this gesture is often augmented by lightly slapping one's own cheek to make the message more obvious. The lesson of the quote is twofold; a good christian should never throw the first punch and that matters of pride do not justify violence. It also doesn't forbid violence, only states when it is not justified.

Hence there is no contradiction

reonhato:

ignoring that the whole jesus died for our sins interpretation is really really pushing the boundaries and probably was only spread because it sounds good and allows people to sin so it is popular.

if it indeed true that you can sin and still go to heaven then what is the point of living a life free of sin. if all hitler has to do to get into heaven is say sorry then why bother living such a restricted and controlled life.

personally i am not going to ask for forgiveness, heaven sounds like a terrible place. thankfully the chance of it actually existing is pretty much as close to 0 as you can get.

I'll leave it at this: you people really don't understand how probability works, do you?

NuclearShadow:
Sadly most christians will lie for their religion. With claims of things that never happened. You would not believe how many people I have met in my life that have claimed medical miracles. Everything from cancer to aids, to even claims of regeneration of limbs. Of course I always challenge them to provide me the medical records of such which they can easily get copies of their own records but none have ever met that challenge whether I met them in person or online.

Do you not see the irony in condemning Christians for not backing up their claims with evidence while simultaneously making claims about Christians without any evidence?

tstorm823:

reonhato:

ignoring that the whole jesus died for our sins interpretation is really really pushing the boundaries and probably was only spread because it sounds good and allows people to sin so it is popular.

if it indeed true that you can sin and still go to heaven then what is the point of living a life free of sin. if all hitler has to do to get into heaven is say sorry then why bother living such a restricted and controlled life.

personally i am not going to ask for forgiveness, heaven sounds like a terrible place. thankfully the chance of it actually existing is pretty much as close to 0 as you can get.

I'll leave it at this: you people really don't understand how probability works, do you?

if you think there is actually a higher chance then what is essentially 0 of heaven and hell existing then you clearly do not understand how it works.

what would you say the chance of a giant green alien with 18 tentacles, 14 eyes and 3 mouths who calls himself bob landing in my backyard tomorrow morning at exactly 9:14am. with absolutely no evidence to support that this will happen we say the chance is basically 0. it is not technically 0 since it is possible it could happen, the likelihood though is so impractical that it is pointless to speculate the actual chances thus 0.

this situation is exactly the same as claims made by religion like heaven and hell. there is no evidence to support it, you cannot possible speculate the exact chance of it existing, thus 0

You know, even the pope has stated that there is no such thing as hell. It was a big deal, TV, huge crowd, the works.
But there are still religious institusions who want to continue to use it as a whip.

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