MEXICAN ELECTION DAY: When raccoons come out to play.

So, today is election day. It is hot as fuck in here (Sonora), like always, and today is the day when the raccoons come--and by raccoons I mean party people doing shenanigans in the polls. I've seen at least two near the polls in my home and plenty more are being reported in the radio and all over the internets and, honestly, guys, this is how democracy dies: at the grubby hands of these little bastard fucks.

Now, I'm not whining for the sake of it and it is not like I expected anything else to happen but, damn, if it isn't disheartening.

well what can you do? hopefully lopez does win it despite the bullshit thats been going on.

unabomberman:
So, today is election day. It is hot as fuck in here (Sonora), like always, and today is the day when the raccoons come--and by raccoons I mean party people doing shenanigans in the polls. I've seen at least two near the polls in my home and plenty more are being reported in the radio and all over the internets and, honestly, guys, this is how democracy dies: at the grubby hands of these little bastard fucks.

Now, I'm not whining for the sake of it and it is not like I expected anything else to happen but, damn, if it isn't disheartening.

Can you give us any examples/links of such "shenanigans"?

Side note: Also, as a American I have to ask, what does Lopez or the other candidates think about people illegally entering the US through Mexico? Any chance that somebody on your side of the border is going to attempt to stop or discourage illegal immigration?

Helmholtz Watson:

unabomberman:
So, today is election day. It is hot as fuck in here (Sonora), like always, and today is the day when the raccoons come--and by raccoons I mean party people doing shenanigans in the polls. I've seen at least two near the polls in my home and plenty more are being reported in the radio and all over the internets and, honestly, guys, this is how democracy dies: at the grubby hands of these little bastard fucks.

Now, I'm not whining for the sake of it and it is not like I expected anything else to happen but, damn, if it isn't disheartening.

Can you give us any examples/links of such "shenanigans"?

Side note: Also, as a American I have to ask, what does Lopez or the other candidates think about people illegally entering the US through Mexico? Any chance that somebody on your side of the border is going to attempt to stop or discourage illegal immigration?

Not much to do other than call on the bullshit and take photographs of those fucks, which plenty of people are already doing.

As for Lopez Obrador, he'd trow in subsidy to sectors of the farming industry to get it off the hole it is in, along with government investment in the technology and education sectors.

On the side note: the only way to stop it is to fix shit here, and that ain't gonna happen so long as your governments keep legitimizing the same fucks who have Mexico in the state that it is in, right now. The way to do it over here, is to create jobs in the farming industry so far, and to invest in education and infrastructure so that young people can stay here instead of risking their lives over there. Either way, if either Peña or Mota "win" you're gonna have to get used to the massive problem growing and your government spending exorbitant amounts of your tax paying dollars to "combat" desperate people who wold rather deal with that than the alternative(look at it this way: wouldn't you cross the border if it lead to you potentially not starving and your prospective kids being able to do something other than manual labor?).

unabomberman:

Not much to do other than call on the bullshit and take photographs of those fucks, which plenty of people are already doing.

As for Lopez Obrador, he'd trow in subsidy to sectors of the farming industry to get it off the hole it is in, along with government investment in the technology and education sectors.

What I meant was, could you link me any article that show voter fraud happening?

unabomberman:

On the side note: the only way to stop it is to fix shit here, and that ain't gonna happen so long as your governments keep legitimizing the same fucks who have Mexico in the state that it is in, right now. The way to do it over here, is to create jobs in the farming industry so far, and to invest in education and infrastructure so that young people can stay here instead of risking their lives over there. Either way, if either Peña or Mota "win" you're gonna have to get used to the massive problem growing and your government spending exorbitant amounts of your tax paying dollars to "combat" desperate people who wold rather deal with that than the alternative.

...that doesn't answer my question. My question was if Lopez or anybody else has spoken out against illegal immigration or are they taking the same stance as Vicente Fox(see:doesn't discourage illegal immigration)?

unabomberman:

look at it this way: wouldn't you cross the border if it lead to you potentially not starving and your prospective kids being able to do something other than manual labor?

I would want something more for my kids, but I wouldn't break another countries border laws to do it. If my grandparents could wait it out in war torn Israel before coming to the US, I could wait it out before immigrating to another country.

Helmholtz Watson:

unabomberman:

Not much to do other than call on the bullshit and take photographs of those fucks, which plenty of people are already doing.

As for Lopez Obrador, he'd trow in subsidy to sectors of the farming industry to get it off the hole it is in, along with government investment in the technology and education sectors.

What I meant was, could you link me any article that show voter fraud happening?

unabomberman:

On the side note: the only way to stop it is to fix shit here, and that ain't gonna happen so long as your governments keep legitimizing the same fucks who have Mexico in the state that it is in, right now. The way to do it over here, is to create jobs in the farming industry so far, and to invest in education and infrastructure so that young people can stay here instead of risking their lives over there. Either way, if either Peña or Mota "win" you're gonna have to get used to the massive problem growing and your government spending exorbitant amounts of your tax paying dollars to "combat" desperate people who wold rather deal with that than the alternative.

...that doesn't answer my question. My question was if Lopez or anybody else has spoken out against illegal immigration or are they taking the same stance as Vicente Fox(see:doesn't discourage illegal immigration)?

unabomberman:

look at it this way: wouldn't you cross the border if it lead to you potentially not starving and your prospective kids being able to do something other than manual labor?

I would want something more for my kids, but I wouldn't break another countries border laws to do it. If my grandparents could wait it out in war torn Israel before coming to the US, I could wait it out before immigrating to another country.

What exactly do you mean by "speaking against illegal immigration," then? Why should anyone from Mexico "speak against it" when they have much better things to do? Especially considering illegal immigration is not our problem but rather the symptom of something else. If you see it as a problem on your end then you should lobby to remove the incentive. And by that I mean that you either figure out a way to have companies and individuals stop hiring illegals permanently (good luck with that), or just deal with it (pretty self explanatory this one).

Discouraging measures are all over the place, though, with ads trying to convince folk not to leave their families and whatnot but the truth is that the government doesn't care b/c the money they send from there over here is a lot, so that's that.

but I wouldn't break another countries border laws to do it. If my grandparents could wait it out in war torn Israel before coming to the US, I could wait it out before immigrating to another country.

Dude...where would they emigrate to, whose borders would they illegally cross? To desperate Mexicans the U.S. is just right there, you have to understand. The situations aren't even comparable. Now, if you add historical baggage into it, well...there's always the fact that the U.S/Mexico war where the U.S took a chunk of the country which was obviously illegal on Mexico's side, and people haven't forgotten about it--you can't expect people to look at it from your exact context.

To the most extreme of fringe mentalities, they can rationalize it as just taking their land back if they so desire and there's nothing you can do about it. And either way, illegal immigration is at an all time low but it is costing you a pretty penny.

You have a better chance to have that stuff fixed over here than you do over there, to be honest. The moment Mexico starts doing well, the less people from the Diaspora that you have to worry about.

What I meant was, could you link me any article that show voter fraud happening?

Just go over here and weep (Hope you can read spanish): http://www.blogdeizquierda.com/

If you, somehow, doubt the veracity of the info because it is a "lefty blog" you can do a quick google search--it won't take long. Start roaming facebook and stuff, you'll find it.

Or, you can go here: http://www.zoom95.com/

Which is a regional radio station--spanish again. We just heard some dudes in Carbó were about to go postal in some 'raccoon' and almost beat the shit out of the guy before the police took him away (probably to let him walk somewhere else). Still, mob justice doesn't strike me as a good idea.

Feels like I'm sitting on a powder keg...

Helmholtz Watson:

unabomberman:

Not much to do other than call on the bullshit and take photographs of those fucks, which plenty of people are already doing.

As for Lopez Obrador, he'd trow in subsidy to sectors of the farming industry to get it off the hole it is in, along with government investment in the technology and education sectors.

What I meant was, could you link me any article that show voter fraud happening?

unabomberman:

On the side note: the only way to stop it is to fix shit here, and that ain't gonna happen so long as your governments keep legitimizing the same fucks who have Mexico in the state that it is in, right now. The way to do it over here, is to create jobs in the farming industry so far, and to invest in education and infrastructure so that young people can stay here instead of risking their lives over there. Either way, if either Peña or Mota "win" you're gonna have to get used to the massive problem growing and your government spending exorbitant amounts of your tax paying dollars to "combat" desperate people who wold rather deal with that than the alternative.

...that doesn't answer my question. My question was if Lopez or anybody else has spoken out against illegal immigration or are they taking the same stance as Vicente Fox(see:doesn't discourage illegal immigration)?

unabomberman:

look at it this way: wouldn't you cross the border if it lead to you potentially not starving and your prospective kids being able to do something other than manual labor?

I would want something more for my kids, but I wouldn't break another countries border laws to do it. If my grandparents could wait it out in war torn Israel before coming to the US, I could wait it out before immigrating to another country.

Didn't you hear? Immigration stopped from Mexico because of rampant racism and xenophobia. Do you really think Mexicans want to be shuffled into a damn internment camp in Arizona?

Ultratwinkie:

Didn't you hear? Immigration stopped from Mexico because of rampant racism and homophobia. Do you really think Mexicans want to be shuffled into a damn internment camp in Arizona?

That's...just not true. Where did you get it that it stopped?

unabomberman:

Ultratwinkie:

Didn't you hear? Immigration stopped from Mexico because of rampant racism and homophobia. Do you really think Mexicans want to be shuffled into a damn internment camp in Arizona?

That's...just not true. Where did you get it that it stopped?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/23/net-migration-from-mexico-falls-to-zero-and-perhaps-less/

The net immigration stopped. The immigration basically came to a standstill. The "flood of Mexicans invading us" is just more racist scare mongering. Nothing more.

Ultratwinkie:

Didn't you hear? Immigration stopped from Mexico because of rampant racism and homophobia. Do you really think Mexicans want to be shuffled into a damn internment camp in Arizona?

What? Why would US opinions on homosexuals matter to them? That said, take a look at opinion polls in Mexico before you start telling me that "homophobia" is causing them to leave.

-----------------------

unabomberman:

What exactly do you mean by "speaking against illegal immigration," then? Why should anyone from Mexico "speak against it" when they have much better things to do?

I'm not saying that they would go on and on about it, I'm just curious if they have expressed an opinion on it like Vincente Fox did.

unabomberman:

Discouraging measures are all over the place, though, with ads trying to convince folk not to leave their families and whatnot but the truth is that the government doesn't care b/c the money they send from there over here is a lot, so that's that.

So its mixed response then, huh. Good that there are ads to encourage people to stay, too bad that the government doesn't care. Thanks for the info.

unabomberman:
To desperate Mexicans the U.S. is just right there, you have to understand. The situations aren't even comparable.

True, Israel is pretty far away.

unabomberman:
Now, if you add historical baggage into it, well...there's always the fact that the U.S/Mexico war where the U.S took a chunk of the country which was obviously illegal on Mexico's side, and people haven't forgotten about it--you can't expect people to look at it from your exact context.

I never understood how Mexico could claim it was "their" land, given the fact that Native Americans called that land home.

unabomberman:

To the most extreme of fringe mentalities, they can rationalize it as just taking their land back if they so desire and there's nothing you can do about it. And either way, illegal immigration is at an all time low but it is costing you a pretty penny.

You have a better chance to have that stuff fixed over here than you do over there, to be honest. The moment Mexico starts doing well, the less people from the Diaspora that you have to worry about.

True.

unabomberman:

Just go over here and weep (Hope you can read spanish): http://www.blogdeizquierda.com/

If you, somehow, doubt the veracity of the info because it is a "lefty blog" you can do a quick google search--it won't take long. Start roaming facebook and stuff, you'll find it.

Or, you can go here: http://www.zoom95.com/

Which is a regional radio station--spanish again. We just heard some dudes in Carbó were about to go postal in some 'raccoon' and almost beat the shit out of the guy before the police took him away (probably to let him walk somewhere else). Still, mob justice doesn't strike me as a good idea.

Feels like I'm sitting on a powder keg...

Thanks I'll use google translator and look into the info.

Helmholtz Watson:

Ultratwinkie:

Didn't you hear? Immigration stopped from Mexico because of rampant racism and homophobia. Do you really think Mexicans want to be shuffled into a damn internment camp in Arizona?

What? Why would US opinions on homosexuals matter to them? That said, take a look at opinion polls in Mexico before you start telling me that "homophobia" is causing them to leave.

-----------------------

unabomberman:

What exactly do you mean by "speaking against illegal immigration," then? Why should anyone from Mexico "speak against it" when they have much better things to do?

I'm not saying that they would go on and on about it, I'm just curious if they have expressed an opinion on it like Vincente Fox did.

unabomberman:

Discouraging measures are all over the place, though, with ads trying to convince folk not to leave their families and whatnot but the truth is that the government doesn't care b/c the money they send from there over here is a lot, so that's that.

So its mixed response then, huh. Good that there are ads to encourage people to stay, too bad that the government doesn't care. Thanks for the info.

unabomberman:
To desperate Mexicans the U.S. is just right there, you have to understand. The situations aren't even comparable.

True, Israel is pretty far away.

unabomberman:
Now, if you add historical baggage into it, well...there's always the fact that the U.S/Mexico war where the U.S took a chunk of the country which was obviously illegal on Mexico's side, and people haven't forgotten about it--you can't expect people to look at it from your exact context.

I never understood how Mexico could claim it was "their" land, given the fact that Native Americans called that land home.

unabomberman:

To the most extreme of fringe mentalities, they can rationalize it as just taking their land back if they so desire and there's nothing you can do about it. And either way, illegal immigration is at an all time low but it is costing you a pretty penny.

You have a better chance to have that stuff fixed over here than you do over there, to be honest. The moment Mexico starts doing well, the less people from the Diaspora that you have to worry about.

True.

unabomberman:

Just go over here and weep (Hope you can read spanish): http://www.blogdeizquierda.com/

If you, somehow, doubt the veracity of the info because it is a "lefty blog" you can do a quick google search--it won't take long. Start roaming facebook and stuff, you'll find it.

Or, you can go here: http://www.zoom95.com/

Which is a regional radio station--spanish again. We just heard some dudes in Carbó were about to go postal in some 'raccoon' and almost beat the shit out of the guy before the police took him away (probably to let him walk somewhere else). Still, mob justice doesn't strike me as a good idea.

Feels like I'm sitting on a powder keg...

Thanks I'll use google translator and look into the info.

Ah crap that meant to be Xenophobia. I was distracted by another Escapist. Sorry about that. Rare miss.

Ultratwinkie:

Ah crap that meant to be Xenophobia. I was distracted by another Escapist. Sorry about that. Rare miss.

Ok, no problem. That comment makes a little more sense now.

I never understood how Mexico could claim it was "their" land, given the fact that Native Americans called that land home.

That was recognized territory that belonged to the New Spain, still. When Mexico came to be, it became part of it--that the country went to war over it should tell you all you need to know.

Either way, it is all a mess--people jumping the border today is no less legitimate than what happened back in the day but from the other direction.

Also update: Seems Enrique Peña Nieto is poised to be our new "president."

unabomberman:

I never understood how Mexico could claim it was "their" land, given the fact that Native Americans called that land home.

That was recognized territory that belonged to the New Spain, still. When Mexico came to be, it became part of it--that the country went to war over it should tell you all you need to know.

Either way, it is all a mess--people jumping the border today is no less legitimate than what happened back in the day but from the other direction.

Also update: Seems Enrique Peña Nieto is poised to be our new "president."

or you could of said that Mexicans are part native native American, as are most south Americans.

unabomberman:

Also update: Seems Enrique Peña Nieto is poised to be our new "president."

I assume that Lopez was the guy that you wanted to win?

Ultratwinkie:

unabomberman:

Ultratwinkie:

Didn't you hear? Immigration stopped from Mexico because of rampant racism and homophobia. Do you really think Mexicans want to be shuffled into a damn internment camp in Arizona?

That's...just not true. Where did you get it that it stopped?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/23/net-migration-from-mexico-falls-to-zero-and-perhaps-less/

The net immigration stopped. The immigration basically came to a standstill. The "flood of Mexicans invading us" is just more racist scare mongering. Nothing more.

The decline is largly due to the weakened job market in the US and the increased danger of border crossings. With the cartel violence greatly increasing the numbers, it had to taper off sooner or later. When the cartels gained complete control over the border towns on the Mexican side of the border, you would be better off staying where you were than dare attempt to go through them. It really has been horrific for so many what they have endured.

"flood of mexicans fleeing for their lives" is a more accurate description for the previous increase than "invading".

Lil devils x:

Ultratwinkie:

unabomberman:

That's...just not true. Where did you get it that it stopped?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/23/net-migration-from-mexico-falls-to-zero-and-perhaps-less/

The net immigration stopped. The immigration basically came to a standstill. The "flood of Mexicans invading us" is just more racist scare mongering. Nothing more.

The decline is largly due to the weakened Job Market in the US and the increased danger of border crossings. With the cartel violence greatly increasing the numbers, it had to taper off sooner or later. When the cartels gained complete control over the border towns on the Mexican side of the border, you would be better off staying where you were than dare attempt to go through them. It really has been horrific for so many what they have endured.

"flood of mexicans fleeing for their lives" is a more accurate description for the previous increase than "invading".

Not that the racists would differentiate between "fleeing" and "invading." Most of the racism is centered around old school states like Arizona and the south. Not sure why any immigrant would want to head to the southern states though. Most followed the path my family took, by moving to California.

Ultratwinkie:

Lil devils x:

Ultratwinkie:

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/23/net-migration-from-mexico-falls-to-zero-and-perhaps-less/

The net immigration stopped. The immigration basically came to a standstill. The "flood of Mexicans invading us" is just more racist scare mongering. Nothing more.

The decline is largly due to the weakened Job Market in the US and the increased danger of border crossings. With the cartel violence greatly increasing the numbers, it had to taper off sooner or later. When the cartels gained complete control over the border towns on the Mexican side of the border, you would be better off staying where you were than dare attempt to go through them. It really has been horrific for so many what they have endured.

"flood of mexicans fleeing for their lives" is a more accurate description for the previous increase than "invading".

Not that the racists would differentiate between "fleeing" and "invading." Most of the racism is centered around old school states like Arizona and the south. Not sure why any immigrant would want to head to the southern states though.

Considering what they are fleeing from, some redneck racist would be minor in comparison.
EDIT: Saw your edit, if they can make it there, I am sure they would have.

Those coming from places like Juarez just try to live long enough to get anywhere.

Is it bad that I saw the title and the first thing I thought of was this?

So what is this? Are these people rigging the votes or something like that then?

Helmholtz Watson:

unabomberman:

Also update: Seems Enrique Peña Nieto is poised to be our new "president."

I assume that Lopez was the guy that you wanted to win?

Want has nothing to do with it. That Peña "won" (because he didn't, if you know anything about Mexican politics) means the return of The Party to power, pretty much. This is bad, bad news, brah.

unabomberman:

Helmholtz Watson:

unabomberman:

Also update: Seems Enrique Peña Nieto is poised to be our new "president."

I assume that Lopez was the guy that you wanted to win?

Want has nothing to do with it. That Peña "won" (because he didn't, if you know anything about Mexican politics) means the return of The Party to power, pretty much. This is bad, bad news, brah.

Hey I just came across this, might be interesting to you.

Helmholtz Watson:

unabomberman:

Helmholtz Watson:
I assume that Lopez was the guy that you wanted to win?

Want has nothing to do with it. That Peña "won" (because he didn't, if you know anything about Mexican politics) means the return of The Party to power, pretty much. This is bad, bad news, brah.

Hey I just came across this, might be interesting to you.

That's...a bunch of nonsense. Especially this:

Which means the "PRI that's coming" will have a much harder time amassing power than did the PRI that supposedly left 12 years ago.

The article is coming from the fictional POV that our elections democratic and transparent, and that they are fair and clean process...which they aren't. Look for the mathemathical analysis being carried out right now from the available data stemming from the pre-electoral counts--they aren't even trying hard. Now, add the vote shaving and harassing tactics and the reality is much, much harsher.

I am so butthurt right now...

EDIT: Kinda irresponsible to just go "BAWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!" and not give concrete examples. My bad. So here goes:

An example would have to be some research done by Jorge López Gallardo, a physicist at Texas University in El Paso. And, to quote him:

Without a doubt, the numbers posted by PREP are manipulated.

I looked for a source in English for you where they delve a little bit deeper on how the numbers have been manipulated: http://www.latinospost.com/articles/1713/20120702/mexico-elections-2012-fraud-number-manipulation-claims.htm

And here's a link to the numbers: https://twitter.com/#!/J_LopezGallardo/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FXmSr9zK5

We're shitting brix right now. It is not a nice feeling to have...

unabomberman:

EDIT: Kinda irresponsible to just go "BAWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!" and not give concrete examples. My bad. So here goes:

An example would have to be some research done by Jorge López Gallardo, a physicist at Texas University in El Paso. And, to quote him:

Without a doubt, the numbers posted by PREP are manipulated.

I looked for a source in English for you where they delve a little bit deeper on how the numbers have been manipulated: http://www.latinospost.com/articles/1713/20120702/mexico-elections-2012-fraud-number-manipulation-claims.htm

And here's a link to the numbers: https://twitter.com/#!/J_LopezGallardo/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FXmSr9zK5

We're shitting brix right now. It is not a nice feeling to have...

Thanks for the links, and feel better :/

 

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