Why won't anyone admit to being a republican?

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I see this a lot. People will consistently carry water for the republican party. On every issue. They will contort themselves into pretzels defending the indefensible for the party, and do everything they can to distort the issue, usually running the gamut from "the democrats do worse" to "let's change the subject" to dead silence to flat-out denial. And yet, when called on it, these people generally claim "I'm not a republican". Why? It doesn't make sense. Can anyone explain this to me? Do we not have a single republican on the board, or is everyone just too embarrassed to admit it for some reason?

It's a question of credibility. They think, quite rightly, that actually being a republican supporter means nobody will give a shit about your assessment of something related to the republican party. People will just see them as, to use a term I abhor personally, "fanboys".

So, they deny being republican supporters, thinking that means people will view their opinions as more objective and detached from political leanings. Of course, it doesn't work, because it's bullshit from start to finish.

Stagnant:
I see this a lot. People will consistently carry water for the republican party. On every issue. They will contort themselves into pretzels defending the indefensible for the party, and do everything they can to distort the issue, usually running the gamut from "the democrats do worse" to "let's change the subject" to dead silence to flat-out denial. And yet, when called on it, these people generally claim "I'm not a republican". Why? It doesn't make sense. Can anyone explain this to me? Do we not have a single republican on the board, or is everyone just too embarrassed to admit it for some reason?

Because the cult of personality on both sides is staggering, but the Republicans come off worse. Regardless of political views, economical ideas, and the like, far and away the biggest thing that comes to my part of the world is literally just the crazy shit that Republicans say. Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bachmann, Coulter; this is what we see, people who are in positions of power and shouting loudly over everyone else, and who are so full of shit that you'd be surprised if they *weren't* all actors trying to discredit the party entirely. The issue, it seems, with American politics is it's rarely about the actual politics, and mostly about who can shout the loudest about the 'right things'. Doesn't matter whether a bill is a step to getting the country out of the shitter, if a Democrat put it forward, Republicans will block it. Black man running for president? Doesn't matter that he's been evaluated as a terrible candidate for anti-gun policies by the leading anti-gun pressure group, he's trying to take our guns! And he's not white, obviously he's not from America! He's a secret Muslim Brotherhood spy from Kenya! Gay people? Obviously the cause of natural disasters!

To be honest, I don't blame people trying to escape being labelled along with those fuckwits.

You dont tell the Jedi that you are a Sith.

Kinguendo:
You dont tell the Jedi that you are a Sith.

Well yeah, there's that too.

Sadly, politics is just like justice. It's not about right and wrong, it's who can say it better, louder.

The republican brand got heavially damages during the Bush years, and I don't just mean to crazies came out. They spent like drunken liberals and did nothing to shrink government. It's easier to try and be some third thing than admit to being the party that passed medicare part D, held 2 wars, and bailed out the banks despite being the party of fiscal conservatism. To be a republican means several years of not living by your values, and thus, a loss of any credibility as to telling how democrats should behave.

I'm pretty sure I've said that I'm...technically[1], a republican, in the sense that I'm for less government control and regulation.

But that doesn't answer your question, so let me answer it for you. When you think of republicans, who do you think of? An important political figure from the Iraq war, jumping through hoops to justify treating people like meat grinders? A gun toting lunatic who's view on reality is so keenly distorted that you would have no trouble institutionalizing him? Some inane, offensive talking head, reiterating the opinions of the former while bad-mouthing the opinions of anyone else?

That lies the problem. The image[2] of the republican party has become one of self-righteous self-inflation and pure destructive nationalism, and no one with any common sense wants any part of it.

TL;DR: No one wants to be associated with The Spanish Inquisition!

[1] In a wholly idealistic sense, I'm more of an anarchist. I don't believe government is necessary for society to exist, and, in an ideal society, would not exist.
[2] It's important to say I only mean the image; not all republicans are like this, and the idea that they are is one of the biggest problems facing republicans now.

I'm particularly interested in hearing an explanation from:
- Seekster
- Gorfias
- Ravenshrike
- BOOM Headshot
...Unless I'm mistaken, all four of them have fairly consistently offered this behavior.

Ignore this. Stupid Browser

Kinguendo:
You dont tell the Jedi that you are a Sith.

Or the sith that you're a jedi.

Stagnant:
I'm particularly interested in hearing an explanation from:
- Seekster
- Gorfias
- Ravenshrike
- BOOM Headshot
...Unless I'm mistaken, all four of them have fairly consistently offered this behavior.

Surprised I'm not on the list.

Xan Krieger:

Kinguendo:
You dont tell the Jedi that you are a Sith.

Or the sith that you're a jedi.

Stagnant:
I'm particularly interested in hearing an explanation from:
- Seekster
- Gorfias
- Ravenshrike
- BOOM Headshot
...Unless I'm mistaken, all four of them have fairly consistently offered this behavior.

Surprised I'm not on the list.

Ooh, good call. Yeah, you and Xanthious.

Xan Krieger:

Kinguendo:
You dont tell the Jedi that you are a Sith.

Or the sith that you're a jedi.

Stagnant:
I'm particularly interested in hearing an explanation from:
- Seekster
- Gorfias
- Ravenshrike
- BOOM Headshot
...Unless I'm mistaken, all four of them have fairly consistently offered this behavior.

Surprised I'm not on the list.

No shame in being a Jedi, Jedi 4 Life... and then forever after as a conscious part of the force!

That's news to me, especially since I can't think of a single campaign commercial where a candidate identifies themself as a liberal.

I'm a Republican. I don't feel shame in saying so either - I've said it several times, in fact.

Stagnant:
I'm particularly interested in hearing an explanation from:
- Seekster
- Gorfias
- Ravenshrike
- BOOM Headshot
...Unless I'm mistaken, all four of them have fairly consistently offered this behavior.

So in other words, you're continuing your crusade from the previous thread, and adding a few people in for good measure. Isn't this something you could have handled via PM, instead of taking your personal complaints about certain users and waving them around in public over and over again? Yeah, everyone paying attention knows that you don't like them: get over it.

If the users in question say that they're not Republicans, just conservatives - is that really a big fucking deal for any reason whatsoever? I don't need to question your political affiliations, they don't feel the need to question your political affiliations... it's quite obvious where people stand on issues, so does it REALLY matter what letters they put next to their names? This is a anonymous forum: you could secretly be a Republican role-playing as a liberal, for all I know.

scotth266:
If the users in question say that they're not Republicans, just conservatives - is that really a big fucking deal for any reason whatsoever? I don't need to question your political affiliations, they don't feel the need to question your political affiliations... it's quite obvious where people stand on issues, so does it REALLY matter what letters they put next to their names? This is a anonymous forum: you could secretly be a Republican role-playing as a liberal, for all I know.

But that's the question Stagnant is asking: These people don't call themselves "Republicans," yet they come on these boards and defend everything the GOP does and stands for. It's rather odd that they seem to agree with the Republicans on every issue (or at the very least refuse to agree with anyone else on an issue), yet they never take on the name. One would imagine if they really weren't Republicans, they wouldn't be so afraid to admit when they disagree with the party. Yet no matter what the subject is, getting them to admit the Republicans don't have higher ground is like pulling teeth. If they ever do admit it, it's the most hesitant and begrudging kind of confession one can imagine.

Stagnant:
I'm particularly interested in hearing an explanation from:
- Seekster
- Gorfias
- Ravenshrike
- BOOM Headshot
...Unless I'm mistaken, all four of them have fairly consistently offered this behavior.

Haven't we talked about why you're not supposed to call out people who haven't participated in your thread?

And Seekster's left R&P, probably for his benefit and our detriment. There are fewer and fewer people I respected in this forum and he was one of them.

As for your question, Redd put it best: after the Bush administration, no one wanted to be a Republican even if they always voted for them. They spent a decade literally doing everything they claimed to be against domestically and acted internationally in a matter that was at the best of times arrogant and at the worst times constituted war crimes. They made the US appear weak and stupid in the eyes of the world and hypocrites in the eyes of voters.

Of course, now you're trying to start that all over again with Mitt Romney....

A similar things happens in the UK where for decades polling organisations had to account for the bias that even in anonymous polls people didn't want to admit that they were Tory voters.

In my head, this is because people intuitively understand that they are being class traitors by voting for a bourgeois party. Sadly I know this isn't the case because the same thing doesn't happen with Lib Dems and Labour.

Most likely this is actually just because while Tories might dislike other political parties, think they're foolish, etc, but there is a real visceral hatred for the Conservatives among a significant percentage of the population.

Another Stagnant flame bait topic? Are you kidding me? This is the fourth time he has done this. I guarantee there will be no moderation for the blatant flamebaiting in this topic yet others will enter and get modded.

The Gentleman:

Stagnant:
I'm particularly interested in hearing an explanation from:
- Seekster
- Gorfias
- Ravenshrike
- BOOM Headshot
...Unless I'm mistaken, all four of them have fairly consistently offered this behavior.

Haven't we talked about why you're not supposed to call out people who haven't participated in your thread?

And Seekster's left R&P, probably for his benefit and our detriment. There are fewer and fewer people I respected in this forum and he was one of them.

As for your question, Redd put it best: after the Bush administration, no one wanted to be a Republican even if they always voted for them. They spent a decade literally doing everything they claimed to be against domestically and acted internationally in a matter that was at the best of times arrogant and at the worst times constituted war crimes. They made the US appear weak and stupid in the eyes of the world and hypocrites in the eyes of voters.

Of course, now you're trying to start that all over again with Mitt Romney....

Yeah, I'm kind of glad Seekster is gone so he can keep his sanity from the stupidity of R&P.

As for the whole Republican thing, the Era of Bush made so many people distrust Republicans because of your said reasons. Then, they began to try to win Tea Party favor which at first was a good idea... then the crazies entered into the picture. It has been all down hill from there.

Lilani:

But that's the question Stagnant is asking: These people don't call themselves "Republicans," yet they come on these boards and defend everything the GOP does and stands for.

And? Does this really matter, at all?

Do I now have to wring a confession from everyone who defends Democratic legislation that they are, in fact, Democrats and not members of the Green Party/are independents because they support positions I don't like? What is this, the McCarthyism of forums?

recruit00:
Another Stagnant flame bait topic? Are you kidding me? This is the fourth time he has done this. I guarantee there will be no moderation for the blatant flamebaiting in this topic yet others will enter and get modded.

Flame baiting? I asked a fairly simple, straightforward, inoffensive question ("Why do people who seem to always support political group X whenever the issue comes up refuse to own their affiliation with political group X"), and then clarified to others that I was particularly interested in hearing it from certain people. Or, perhaps I should've clarified: I know why my side of the table - people like me, Elcarsh, Arbane, etc. think this. So I'm really not curious. I want to know why they think it. Why they are so reluctant.

Stagnant:

recruit00:
Another Stagnant flame bait topic? Are you kidding me? This is the fourth time he has done this. I guarantee there will be no moderation for the blatant flamebaiting in this topic yet others will enter and get modded.

Flame baiting? I asked a fairly simple, straightforward, inoffensive question ("Why do people who seem to always support political group X whenever the issue comes up refuse to own their affiliation with political group X"), and then clarified to others that I was particularly interested in hearing it from certain people. Or, perhaps I should've clarified: I know why my side of the table - people like me, Elcarsh, Arbane, etc. think this. So I'm really not curious. I want to know why they think it. Why they are so reluctant.

Considering in the past three threads similar to this, you end up calling somebody out or blatantly reference them usually in a negative way. And I guarantee you that as soon as Gorfias enters or Ravenshrike enters, you will have a large flame war on your hands.

scotth266:
And? Does this really matter, at all?

Do I now have to wring a confession from everyone who defends Democratic legislation that they are, in fact, Democrats and not members of the Green Party/are independents because they support positions I don't like? What is this, the McCarthyism of forums?

I can't really speak for Stagnant on that, but I'm not really asking for them to confess to being Republicans or not. I'd just like to know why they are so dedicated to defending the GOP above all else, but are so hesitant to simply say they are a Republican. It's rather like watching somebody go on about how they are so dedicated to never eating meat, yet they never just come out and say they are a vegetarian. It's just...odd.

It's hard to be a slightly right leaning independent here and not come off as far right. I can see why people believe there are "Republicans" in hiding here. If you are even remotely to the right, no matter how independent you are no one here will believe it.

Lilani:

scotth266:
And? Does this really matter, at all?

Do I now have to wring a confession from everyone who defends Democratic legislation that they are, in fact, Democrats and not members of the Green Party/are independents because they support positions I don't like? What is this, the McCarthyism of forums?

I can't really speak for Stagnant on that, but I'm not really asking for them to confess to being Republicans or not. I'd just like to know why they are so dedicated to defending the GOP above all else, but are so hesitant to simply say they are a Republican. It's rather like watching somebody go on about how they are so dedicated to never eating meat, yet they never just come out and say they are a vegetarian. It's just...odd.

Well, no, it's more like when that person goes on and on about how awful eating meat is, and how much they hate it, but when you call them "vegetarians", they refuse to own up to it. It's bizarre.

BlackConservative:
It's hard to be a slightly right leaning independent here and not come off as far right. I can see why people believe there are "Republicans" in hiding here. If you are even remotely to the right, no matter how independent you are no one here will believe it.

Are you OmgABlackConservative from SDMB by any chance? And if not, have I already asked you this question? :V But I disagree. The problem isn't just "they're kinda to the right", it's that "they're REALLY to the right". They'll back the republicans pretty much any issue, no matter how bizarre, and seem to speak in lockstep with Fox News. Some people here, like, say, Farson, have made it clear that they are simply somewhat to the right, and clearly not republicans. But I just find it very odd from many of these people.

recruit00:

Stagnant:

recruit00:
Another Stagnant flame bait topic? Are you kidding me? This is the fourth time he has done this. I guarantee there will be no moderation for the blatant flamebaiting in this topic yet others will enter and get modded.

Flame baiting? I asked a fairly simple, straightforward, inoffensive question ("Why do people who seem to always support political group X whenever the issue comes up refuse to own their affiliation with political group X"), and then clarified to others that I was particularly interested in hearing it from certain people. Or, perhaps I should've clarified: I know why my side of the table - people like me, Elcarsh, Arbane, etc. think this. So I'm really not curious. I want to know why they think it. Why they are so reluctant.

Considering in the past three threads similar to this, you end up calling somebody out or blatantly reference them usually in a negative way. And I guarantee you that as soon as Gorfias enters or Ravenshrike enters, you will have a large flame war on your hands.

Well, let's try to avoid that.

The Gentleman:

And Seekster's left R&P, probably for his benefit and our detriment. There are fewer and fewer people I respected in this forum and he was one of them.

When did this happen!?

And how do we fix it?

OT: I'm a Republican! Can I have a cookie now?

Lilani:

I can't really speak for Stagnant on that, but I'm not really asking for them to confess to being Republicans or not. I'd just like to know why they are so dedicated to defending the GOP above all else, but are so hesitant to simply say they are a Republican.

Perhaps because they aren't?

If Republicans are the only major conservative party, the party which pretty much everyone right-leaning kind of has to vote for, is it any surprise whatsoever that people leaning to the right try to defend it, even if they aren't necessarily members (like Libertarians)? Similarly, is it any surprise whatsoever if people leaning to the left (but not necessarily Democrats, like Green Party members) defend the Democrats on issues? After all, many people here are from across the pond - they're not members of any US party, but they still try to defend the parties and positions that they like better.

Of course, the reason people might not identify themselves as Republicans might also have something to do with them being a minority group on the forum - but you could say the same thing about religious people. Not many people exactly wave flags here saying "Hey, I believe in X!" because they know it's an invite for certain folks to comment on how delusional they are and how they believe in eating babies or whatever. But that's just personal speculation on my part.

None of it really justifies the forum McCarthyism going on here anyway.

Maybe because they do not "carry water" for the party on every issue.

I have been accused of being a Republican because I support gun rights. My usual response being something to the effect of DECRIMINALIZE DRUGS!!!!!! or this-

I have also been accused of being a Republican because I like my Federal House member, who is a Republican. Of course that analysis ignores the fact that I also support my Democratic State Senator.

To answer your question more directly, maybe the problem is with you and not them. After all, you called me a conservative in the past.

farson135:
Maybe because they do not "carry water" for the party on every issue.

I could understand that, however so many on these boards (Gorfias springs to my mind, also Xanthious) are so damned hesitant to admit anyone but the Republicans are right about anything, it just baffles me.

Stagnant:
I see this a lot. People will consistently carry water for the republican party. On every issue. They will contort themselves into pretzels defending the indefensible for the party, and do everything they can to distort the issue, usually running the gamut from "the democrats do worse" to "let's change the subject" to dead silence to flat-out denial. And yet, when called on it, these people generally claim "I'm not a republican". Why? It doesn't make sense. Can anyone explain this to me? Do we not have a single republican on the board, or is everyone just too embarrassed to admit it for some reason?

To be fair, I don't know of very many people (I actually can't think of any but myself, but I tend to avoid a lot of the politics threads for my own blood pressure) who identify as actual Democrats (vs. liberal, progressive, or socialist)-- and even though I do, it's still a hold my nose and volunteer kind of thing.

I think there's a widespread irritation on both sides with the actual *parties*. I used to be a very active (liberal) Republican, and over and over would run into people who would call themselves "conservative" but would point-blank refuse to identify as Republicans, even if they have 90%+ agreement with the party and haven't voted for anyone with a D after their name since before the Nixon Administration. Then, the reason I'd be told is that they feel the Republican Party is "too liberal". I can't imagine them making that argument *now*, but I'm sure there's some other reason. I think people think the parties are too corrupted and "conservative" or "progressive" is more pure. And as someone who currently identifies as a Progressive, I can't entirely blame them.

I have never hidden the fact I am a Libertarian and would be a supporter if they actually ever got a chance of winning. I don't support either the Republicans or Democrats in my area and state, mostly because I live in California and all politicians are ranging lunatics.

tstorm823:

The Gentleman:

And Seekster's left R&P, probably for his benefit and our detriment. There are fewer and fewer people I respected in this forum and he was one of them.

When did this happen!?

And how do we fix it?

I would say about 8-10 weeks ago after his last suspension. Particularly in the last few months, it has gotten really nasty around this board and many members are finding that the only way to win in R&P is to just not post. This topic is emblematic of the problem: lots of name calling and calling out of members who are not participants. The problems with moderation in this board are another problem.

As for how we fix it: greatly change the tone and nature of debates on the board to a more evidence-based approach, less conspiracy mongering, and more balanced topic posts. A much larger and more active moderator group would also definitely help.

The Gentleman:

tstorm823:

The Gentleman:

And Seekster's left R&P, probably for his benefit and our detriment. There are fewer and fewer people I respected in this forum and he was one of them.

When did this happen!?

And how do we fix it?

I would say about 8-10 weeks ago after his last suspension. Particularly in the last few months, it has gotten really nasty around this board and many members are finding that the only way to win in R&P is to just not post. This topic is emblematic of the problem: lots of name calling and calling out of members who are not participants. The problems with moderation in this board are another problem.

As for how we fix it: greatly change the tone and nature of debates on the board to a more evidence-based approach, less conspiracy mongering, and more balanced topic posts. A much larger and more active moderator group would also definitely help.

He was in the SCOTUS ACA ruling thread 5 weeks ago. That's the last I've seen of him.

TheGuy(wantstobe):
He was in the SCOTUS ACA ruling thread 5 weeks ago. That's the last I've seen of him.

I remember that, but that was a rare return for him and I haven't seen him since.

The Gentleman:

I would say about 8-10 weeks ago after his last suspension. Particularly in the last few months, it has gotten really nasty around this board and many members are finding that the only way to win in R&P is to just not post.

I've always seen this as inherent to any worthwhile debate... sort of like the "war games" solution.

This topic is emblematic of the problem: lots of name calling and calling out of members who are not participants. The problems with moderation in this board are another problem.

Well then, the problem is not that you can't win unless you don't paly, it's that you can't even enjoy yourself unless you don't play...

Nobody ever wins here (though I claim I won the gay marriage debate with the "single persons revolution" theory), but we always managed to have fun anyway.

Also, how do people get moderator action when I don't? I call people stupid and give snarky answers like once a week...

I am a Republican. There. Done.

Life isn't that black-and-white, though. No one agrees 100% with either party on every single issue. I want small government; less services, less regulation, less taxes. That is my core value in government. Which side aligns with that value most? Republican. By voting for a Republican I am supporting a small government value system. What sucks for me is I am also supporting a "pro-life", "anti-gay", bible-thumpin', big military platform. I don't agree with the Republican parties stance on those issues, or that they've even taken a stance on those issues; but we've got two choices, and that's the one I agree with for the issue that is most important to me (small government), and if I have to sign on with everything else, I own that.

If I vote for any other party, even one that is exclusively "small government"; I may as well not vote.

You know what happened? What always happens in a "democracy". Everyone is free to support whatever they want individually, but not everyone agrees 100%. So, two folks get together because they agree on "most" things, and together they over-power the many other individuals. Then, another group forms, and another, and another, they grow. Eventually like-minded groups absorb each other and you end up with two super-powerful parties that have internal "consensus" on most issues, and are directly opposed to each other. Maybe some day, one will completely overthrow the other and we will have a single "consensus" where no one really agrees with everything, but everyone at least agrees with one thing. Eventually, some people will want change, and then the party will split. Groups will form. They will specialize on their platforms, then break even further. Eventually it will break down to individuals again, and the cycle repeats.

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