Would you support Capital Punishment for cases like these?
Yes
19.8% (18)
19.8% (18)
No
74.7% (68)
74.7% (68)
Maybe
5.5% (5)
5.5% (5)
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Poll: Question for all Anti-Death Penalty Folks

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So I read this story, and though I personally am anti-death penalty because it's far too easy to condemn an innocent person to death, cases like these make me question that.

This kid will NEVER be rehabilitated, he's clearly screwed in the head. He should never ever be released into the public again, and he himself admitted he did it (murdered his own sister and mother in cold blood and then cooly admitted it over the phone), with all the evidence also pointing to him. Would you oppose the death penalty for someone like him?

911: What's the emergency?

Evans: Uh, I just killed my mom and my sister.

911: What? How did you do that?

Evans: Uh, I shot them with a .22 revolver.

911: Are you sure they're dead?

Evans: They're dead.

911: Were your mom and sister in their beds?

Evans: I don't know. This is going to really mess me up in the future. I told my sister that my mom needed her. She was in her room, and she came out of her room, and I shot her. And she rolled down the stairs and I shot her again. And then I went down and I shot my mom maybe three or four times, but I'll never forget this. My sister, she came downstairs and she was screaming and I was telling her that I'm sorry but just to hold still - that, you know, I was just going to make it go away. But she kept on freaking out, but she finally fell down and I shot her in the head about, probably, three or four times.

I wouldn't be opposed to someone quickly offing this kid, for what it's worth.

Captcha: Tastes like chicken. What.The.Fuck. Captcha.

EDIT: I am of course talking theoretically, as in: Why would you oppose the death penalty for an airtight case like this? Or why wouldn't you? Seeing as the vast majority of this site is anti-death penalty, why are you anti death penalty in cases like this, where the death penalty would be justifiable? Is it because of the fact that far too many innocents die as a result of wrongful convictions? Or is just an arbitrary line in the sand you draw because it makes you feel bad?

Doesn't particulary sound sane to me. Maybe he is, but it sounds like he's more nuts than anything else.
If he is insane, then the correct course should be to stick him in a padded room somewhere and maybe dissect his brain.
If he is sane, then just shoot the bastard and be done with it. Much simpler, easier, and cheaper.

I do not have enough faith in the system to determine that cases are 100% sure. You can say what you will about this one isolated case but how many case are this seemly air tight? Don't get me wrong if this case is as it seems the kid should never again see the light of day.

I just don't have the faith in regular people to justify ending a life. Where do you put the line that would measure what would be seen as a 100% case?

The kid is clearly mentally screwed up in some way. I don't think it's right to assign the death penalty to someone who's clearly not in control of their own faculties. Furthermore, I question your assertion that he will NEVER be rehabilitated. I don't think there's any evidence suggesting that (the one article you linked certainly didn't say anything about it).

Double post.

NotALiberal:
So I read this story, and though I personally am anti-death penalty because it's far too easy to condemn an innocent person to death, cases like these make me question that.

This kid will NEVER be rehabilitated, he's clearly screwed in the head. He should never ever be released into the public again, and he himself admitted he did it (murdered his own sister and mother in cold blood and then cooly admitted it over the phone), with all the evidence also pointing to him. Would you oppose the death penalty for someone like him?

911: What's the emergency?

Evans: Uh, I just killed my mom and my sister.

911: What? How did you do that?

Evans: Uh, I shot them with a .22 revolver.

911: Are you sure they're dead?

Evans: They're dead.

911: Were your mom and sister in their beds?

Evans: I don't know. This is going to really mess me up in the future. I told my sister that my mom needed her. She was in her room, and she came out of her room, and I shot her. And she rolled down the stairs and I shot her again. And then I went down and I shot my mom maybe three or four times, but I'll never forget this. My sister, she came downstairs and she was screaming and I was telling her that I'm sorry but just to hold still - that, you know, I was just going to make it go away. But she kept on freaking out, but she finally fell down and I shot her in the head about, probably, three or four times.

I wouldn't be opposed to someone quickly offing this kid, for what it's worth.

Captcha: Tastes like chicken. What.The.Fuck. Captcha.

I don't have anything against his death, either. But not minding if oneparticular person dies is not the same as saying "Hey, the Death Penalty is a good idea!".

Oh, oh, the kid is probably insane. You can't be SURE that he will never be rehabilitated, but ANYWAY; We can't make exceptions with the law.
Would the Death Penalty be beneficial in certain cases (like maybe this one)? Yes.
Can we go around and make willy-nilly exceptions whenever it suits us if the crime itself is identical in case A and B, but we believe the person in case A can't be rehabilitated?
No.

Edit: And oh, from an economical stand-point, the way the DP is now set up, it actually costs more to have him killed than to have him in prison for life.
Maybe it wouldn't in China, but in the US..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_debate#Cost
(The article is valid, since it is thoroughly sourced. If you or anyone else dislikes Wikipedia, then just press it and enter the Sourced Links and read those instead)
The claim is disputed, though.

image

I think the death penalty is potentially useful for a small percentage of prisoners that genuinely have no hope of rehabilitation and have committed and are likely to commit again terrible crimes. But I don't think as a society that we should kill prisoners, partly because it's a hypocritical stance, and also because a lot of prisoners are predisposed to psychopathy or mental illness (compared to the general population). Also, there's the whole issue of criminals being wrongly convicted, then executed.

And on an unrelated note, fuck everyone in this thread who is going to say that mentally ill criminals should just be locked up and forgotten about - this is the 21st century.

Godavari:
The kid is clearly mentally screwed up in some way. I don't think it's right to assign the death penalty to someone who's clearly not in control of their own faculties. Furthermore, I question your assertion that he will NEVER be rehabilitated. I don't think there's any evidence suggesting that (the one article you linked certainly didn't say anything about it).

"Rehabilitated" or not, this kid doesn't deserve to see the light of day.

You can't "rehabilitate" a rabid dog, the only course of action is to put it down. This kid clearly lacks all empathy, at the very least he should spend the rest of his miserable days in a padded cell with a strait jacket.

NotALiberal:

Godavari:
The kid is clearly mentally screwed up in some way. I don't think it's right to assign the death penalty to someone who's clearly not in control of their own faculties. Furthermore, I question your assertion that he will NEVER be rehabilitated. I don't think there's any evidence suggesting that (the one article you linked certainly didn't say anything about it).

"Rehabilitated" or not, this kid doesn't deserve to see the light of day.

You can't "rehabilitate" a rabid dog, the only course of action is to put it down. This kid clearly lacks all empathy, at the very least he should spend the rest of his miserable days in a padded cell with a strait jacket.

1: You do not know he is a "rabid dog". Temporary insanity, ever heard of it? Or Insanity in general? Both are possible.

2:I love how you say he is "lacking all empathy", but then condemn him to live HIS ENTIRE LIFE alone in a padded cell with a straight-jacket.
You sir, are a very empathic and understanding individual.

Esotera:
image

I think the death penalty is potentially useful for a small percentage of prisoners that genuinely have no hope of rehabilitation and have committed and are likely to commit again terrible crimes. But I don't think as a society that we should kill prisoners, partly because it's a hypocritical stance, and also because a lot of prisoners are predisposed to psychopathy or mental illness (compared to the general population). Also, there's the whole issue of criminals being wrongly convicted, then executed.

And on an unrelated note, fuck everyone in this thread who is going to say that mentally ill criminals should just be locked up and forgotten about - this is the 21st century.

Some humans are defective, the only course of action is to put them down, as brutal as that sounds, at least in my opinion (that is, if they commit crimes like the ones mentioned above).

NotALiberal:
So I read this story, and though I personally am anti-death penalty because it's far too easy to condemn an innocent person to death, cases like these make me question that.

This kid will NEVER be rehabilitated, he's clearly screwed in the head. He should never ever be released into the public again, and he himself admitted he did it (murdered his own sister and mother in cold blood and then cooly admitted it over the phone), with all the evidence also pointing to him. Would you oppose the death penalty for someone like him?

911: What's the emergency?

Evans: Uh, I just killed my mom and my sister.

911: What? How did you do that?

Evans: Uh, I shot them with a .22 revolver.

911: Are you sure they're dead?

Evans: They're dead.

911: Were your mom and sister in their beds?

Evans: I don't know. This is going to really mess me up in the future. I told my sister that my mom needed her. She was in her room, and she came out of her room, and I shot her. And she rolled down the stairs and I shot her again. And then I went down and I shot my mom maybe three or four times, but I'll never forget this. My sister, she came downstairs and she was screaming and I was telling her that I'm sorry but just to hold still - that, you know, I was just going to make it go away. But she kept on freaking out, but she finally fell down and I shot her in the head about, probably, three or four times.

I wouldn't be opposed to someone quickly offing this kid, for what it's worth.

Captcha: Tastes like chicken. What.The.Fuck. Captcha.

EDIT: I am of course talking theoretically, as in: Why would you oppose the death penalty for an airtight case like this? Or why wouldn't you? Seeing as the vast majority of this site is anti-death penalty, why are you anti death penalty in cases like this, where the death penalty would be justifiable? Is it because of the fact that far too many innocents die as a result of wrongful convictions? Or is just an arbitrary line in the sand you draw because it makes you feel bad?

.
Fucked up child, put him behind bars and let him spend his life there. Diagnose him and he might just spend his life in a Straitjacket for the rest of his life drooling like the sedated psychopath he is.

Realitycrash:

NotALiberal:

Godavari:
The kid is clearly mentally screwed up in some way. I don't think it's right to assign the death penalty to someone who's clearly not in control of their own faculties. Furthermore, I question your assertion that he will NEVER be rehabilitated. I don't think there's any evidence suggesting that (the one article you linked certainly didn't say anything about it).

"Rehabilitated" or not, this kid doesn't deserve to see the light of day.

You can't "rehabilitate" a rabid dog, the only course of action is to put it down. This kid clearly lacks all empathy, at the very least he should spend the rest of his miserable days in a padded cell with a strait jacket.

1: You do not know he is a "rabid dog". Temporary insanity, ever heard of it? Or Insanity in general? Both are possible.

2:I love how you say he is "lacking all empathy", but then condemn him to live HIS ENTIRE LIFE alone in a padded cell with a straight-jacket.
You sir, are a very empathic and understanding individual.

Well.. yeah. My empathy only extends to people who aren't fucking bat shit insane, murdering their fucking relatives at the drop of a pin.

NotALiberal:
Why would you oppose the death penalty for an airtight case like this?

Because I see no reason for it, and I don't see how it could have a better net outcome than lifetime imprisonment.

Seeing as the vast majority of this site is anti-death penalty, why are you anti death penalty in cases like this, where the death penalty would be justifiable?

Justifiable according to whom? Citation needed.

Is it because of the fact that far too many innocents die as a result of wrongful convictions?

That's part of my reasons. Because any number greater than zero is "far too many" in this case.

Or is just an arbitrary line in the sand you draw because it makes you feel bad?

"Feel bad"? No, more like, it makes me rather miffed to see how quickly people can degrade into mindless, bloodthirsty berserkers. And I'm better than that. So in short, executions don't make me feel bad. But the near-orgasmic highs some people seem to be deriving from them is kind of depressing.

NotALiberal:

Realitycrash:

NotALiberal:

"Rehabilitated" or not, this kid doesn't deserve to see the light of day.

You can't "rehabilitate" a rabid dog, the only course of action is to put it down. This kid clearly lacks all empathy, at the very least he should spend the rest of his miserable days in a padded cell with a strait jacket.

1: You do not know he is a "rabid dog". Temporary insanity, ever heard of it? Or Insanity in general? Both are possible.

2:I love how you say he is "lacking all empathy", but then condemn him to live HIS ENTIRE LIFE alone in a padded cell with a straight-jacket.
You sir, are a very empathic and understanding individual.

Well.. yeah. My empathy only extends to people who aren't fucking bat shit insane, murdering their fucking relatives at the drop of a pin.

So we get to decide who we are empathic to? We get to decide who deserves our understanding?
Oh, okey.

NotALiberal:

This kid will NEVER be rehabilitated

Well that's going a bit far. What proof do you have of this? Have there been enough details released about his background?

Until the police dig up some more information, and this kid sees a proper psychologist, I'm not willing to make a statement like that. The death penalty should be reserved for people who were fully in their right mind when they did the crime

Vegosiux:

NotALiberal:
Why would you oppose the death penalty for an airtight case like this?

Because I see no reason for it, and I don't see how it could have a better net outcome than lifetime imprisonment.

Justifiable according to whom? Citation needed.

Justifiable as in the kid is a fucked up human who will never again serve any useful function in society and will continue to pose a threat to innocents if he is released.

That's part of my reasons. Because any number greater than zero is "far too many" in this case.

I agree.

"Feel bad"? No, more like, it makes me rather miffed to see how quickly people can degrade into mindless, bloodthirsty berserkers. And I'm better than that. So in short, executions don't make me feel bad. But the near-orgasmic highs some people seem to be deriving from them is kind of depressing.

I would support quickly offing this kid for the sake of the fact that he doesn't deserve to live fed and sheltered by tax payers money.

Quotes are screwy, can't be arsed fixing them.

NotALiberal:
"Rehabilitated" or not, this kid doesn't deserve to see the light of day.

Why not? He's a human being. All human beings make mistakes. Don't get me wrong - killing your family is one hell of a terrible mistake and certainly worth some kind of investigation - but he's still a person.

You can't "rehabilitate" a rabid dog, the only course of action is to put it down. This kid clearly lacks all empathy, at the very least he should spend the rest of his miserable days in a padded cell with a strait jacket.

And you think lacking empathy is his fault? He probably has no control over it - it's some mental disease of chemical imbalance or something. I feel it's morally wrong to condemn someone for their unfortunate brain chemistry.

Also, I still have yet to see you cite any source that claims it would be impossible to rehabilitate him. Until you do so, I will treat those assertions as an uninformed reactionary opinion (because they are).

Nope, not even in cases like this.

Is his guilt beyond doubt? Yes. Are there mitigating factors? Possibly - he doesn't sound like he is in a rational state of mind, though such judgements/investigations should be up to a mental health professional. Do I think he deserves death? Assuming there are no mitigating factors, yes (just like I think Anders Brevik deserves death).

I still disagree with the death penalty though (edit to clarify: and I would not even sentence this guy to death were it in my power). I know it is fiction, but Lord of the Rings has a perfectly-written summation of my thoughts:

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."

That is why I oppose the death penalty as a whole (well, there are other factors too but that is the main one) and it is a belief that I feel should not be broken even in cases such as this.

Godavari:

NotALiberal:
"Rehabilitated" or not, this kid doesn't deserve to see the light of day.

Why not? He's a human being. All human beings make mistakes. Don't get me wrong - killing your family is one hell of a terrible mistake and certainly worth some kind of investigation - but he's still a person.

You can't "rehabilitate" a rabid dog, the only course of action is to put it down. This kid clearly lacks all empathy, at the very least he should spend the rest of his miserable days in a padded cell with a strait jacket.

And you think lacking empathy is his fault? He probably has no control over it - it's some mental disease of chemical imbalance or something. I feel it's morally wrong to condemn someone for their unfortunate brain chemistry.

Also, I still have yet to see you cite any source that claims it would be impossible to rehabilitate him. Until you do so, I will treat those assertions as an uninformed reactionary opinion (because they are).

Okay, this is the sort of bleeding heart liberalism that people laugh at.

It doesn't matter it's not his fault, life isn't fair. Tough shit. He should still be dealt with like the animal he is.

NotALiberal:

Justifiable as in the kid is a fucked up human who will never again serve any useful function in society and will continue to pose a threat to innocents if he is released.

Citation needed. Sorry, you'll have to prove that "never".

I would support quickly offing this kid for the sake of the fact that he doesn't deserve to live fed and sheltered by tax payers money.

Not this again *groan* You do realize that executing people costs more and there's a good reason the legal system does not allow for "shortcuts", right?

But hey, if it all comes down to MY MONEY™ in the end, we might as well end the discussion here, because...meh, just find one of my threads on why I despise this "But it's my money they live on!" mumbo jumbo.

Vegosiux:

NotALiberal:

Justifiable as in the kid is a fucked up human who will never again serve any useful function in society and will continue to pose a threat to innocents if he is released.

Citation needed. Sorry, you'll have to prove that "never".

I would support quickly offing this kid for the sake of the fact that he doesn't deserve to live fed and sheltered by tax payers money.

Not this again *groan* You do realize that executing people costs more and there's a good reason the legal system does not allow for "shortcuts", right?

But hey, if it all comes down to MY MONEY™ in the end, we might as well end the discussion here, because...meh, just find one of my threads on why I despise this "But it's my money they live on!" mumbo jumbo.

I'm aware it costs more, I'm implying it shouldn't. Sure though, be a condescending dick about it.

Sure, it may also cost marginally more, but it's a matter of principles I guess.

NotALiberal:

I'm aware it costs more, I'm implying it shouldn't.

Well, okay how would you make it cost less without taking legal shortcuts that the system doesn't allow for, for good reasons?

NotALiberal:
Okay, this is the sort of bleeding heart liberalism that people laugh at.

It doesn't matter it's not his fault, life isn't fair. Tough shit. He should still be dealt with like the animal he is.

What exactly do you think is the point of the justice system? Fines, jail, capital punishment - what's it all for? I suspect you think the system is there to punish those who do wrong, but you'd be mistaken. In a civilized society, justice systems are put in place to decrease harm.

For example, in this case, what course of action would cause the least harm to everyone involved? Certainly the perpetrator needs to be confined - we don't know what his mental state is, and so it would be dangerous to leave him out in society. But he is still a person. Doing terrible things doesn't change the fact that he's a person. Thus, we also need to be concerned with his well-being. The best course of action for him would be to study his condition and determine if any rehabilitation can occur[1]. If he can be fixed, we should do so and then allow him to go back to a normal life once his sentence is finished (if it is ever finished). If he's a lost cause, what's so bad about just giving him a life sentence? There's absolutely no need to kill him except for bloodlust and vengeance.

[1] By the way, you still have not provided any source on why you think it's impossible to rehabilitate him

Godavari:
The kid is clearly mentally screwed up in some way. I don't think it's right to assign the death penalty to someone who's clearly not in control of their own faculties. Furthermore, I question your assertion that he will NEVER be rehabilitated. I don't think there's any evidence suggesting that (the one article you linked certainly didn't say anything about it).

He'll probably commit suicide if he ever rehabilitates. That's a lot of shame and guilt for a rational mind to handle.

Edit: Mind you, this is not a "He'll kill himself anyway, so let's kill him first" argument. It's more of a commentary on the rehabilitation of a sick mind.

NotALiberal:

This kid will NEVER be rehabilitated, he's clearly screwed in the head.

Might as well get into asylums and hang some folks. And on what evidence do you base your assertion he will NEVER be rehabilitated? Psychiatrists "fix" people's heads on a daily basis, being crazy does not necessarily imply that you will never function properly in our society.

Found this one the Globe and Mail's website. It is about Anne Perry, a famous Victorian mystery author. In her childhood, she helped kill her friend's mother. If you have seen the movie Heavenly Creatures, it recounts the story.

I bring this up as not only was Anne Perry rehabilitated but has also become a contributing member of society.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/books-and-media/when-anne-perrys-dark-past-was-revealed/article4592201/

Vegosiux:

NotALiberal:

I'm aware it costs more, I'm implying it shouldn't.

Well, okay how would you make it cost less without taking legal shortcuts that the system doesn't allow for, for good reasons?

.
Bullet==>Head, Burial fees.
Is that too much to ask?

TheIronRuler:

Bullet==>Head, Burial fees.
Is that too much to ask?

That's taking a shortcut. I am asking for a way to reduce costs without taking shortcuts. Because legal shortcuts aren't a can of worms you want to open.

Vegosiux:

TheIronRuler:

Bullet==>Head, Burial fees.
Is that too much to ask?

That's taking a shortcut. I am asking for a way to reduce costs without taking shortcuts. Because legal shortcuts aren't a can of worms you want to open.

.
Why is that? When you take out animals before you slaughter them you jam a bullet in their heads. They feel a hard sting and then they're dead. Why not replicate the same thing here? Much more effective than hanging or poisonous gas. We don't do that to kill out cattle, do we?

TheIronRuler:

Why is that? When you take out animals before you slaughter them you jam a bullet in their heads. They feel a hard sting and then they're dead. Why not replicate the same thing here? Much more effective than hanging or poisonous gas. We don't do that to kill out cattle, do we?

Ummm...remind me, when did the thread go from death penalty to meat processing industry?

TheIronRuler:

Bullet==>Head, Burial fees.
Is that too much to ask?

You seem to be missing the point that humans are fallible and that this extends to our systems, like our justice system. We needs the checks and balances to ensure that the person is indeed guilty. Or are your saying that you see them as unnecessary?

I still wonder if in the U.S.A. parents instead of buying their kids action figures and consoles they buy them pistols and machine guns.
:/

If the one who did this was very young,it wasn't his fault. A kid can be angry,and kids don't realize the consequences of their actions. The most responsible is the owner of the gun.
And since kids can't normally have guns,the particular revolver's owner.

TheIronRuler:

Vegosiux:

TheIronRuler:

Bullet==>Head, Burial fees.
Is that too much to ask?

That's taking a shortcut. I am asking for a way to reduce costs without taking shortcuts. Because legal shortcuts aren't a can of worms you want to open.

.
Why is that? When you take out animals before you slaughter them you jam a bullet in their heads. They feel a hard sting and then they're dead. Why not replicate the same thing here? Much more effective than hanging or poisonous gas. We don't do that to kill out cattle, do we?

Dude, the costs come from all the appeals, jury-time, housing, judges and committees having to review the case, etc, etc, etc. And I am willing to bet that NO DP-case comes without an appeal.

You can't just go "No, he's doomed. -BAM-", it would be an insane system.

TheIronRuler:

Vegosiux:

TheIronRuler:

Bullet==>Head, Burial fees.
Is that too much to ask?

That's taking a shortcut. I am asking for a way to reduce costs without taking shortcuts. Because legal shortcuts aren't a can of worms you want to open.

.
Why is that? When you take out animals before you slaughter them you jam a bullet in their heads. They feel a hard sting and then they're dead. Why not replicate the same thing here? Much more effective than hanging or poisonous gas. We don't do that to kill out cattle, do we?

How many innocents you are willing to kill to save costs?

OP is misleading, you left out the parts that clearly showed that he was insane.

"I felt they were suffocating me, so I killed them.. I guess that was selfish of me wasnt it."

really? why did you leave that out? Because it might create a certainty that this guy was mentally ill? (Even more than now)

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