Petitions for secession in 15 states

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http://www.examiner.com/article/citizens-15-states-file-petitions-to-secede-from-united-states

Most detailed article I could find. So since the election people from 15 have filed to have their states withdraw from the union. The first was filed on Nov 7 from Louisiana. As of the time this article was written the petition had 8,162 signatures and needs 16,838 to reach a goal of 25,000 (when their appeal can be submitted to the president for consideration). The other states are Texas, Kentucky, Colorado, New Jersey, New York, Montana, North Dakota, Indiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Oregon. The Texas petition has acquired 5,289 signatures and the petition for New York was actually filled by a "C R" of Grand Forks, North Dakota on Saturday.

I personally find the possible ramifications of these petitions hilarious. Let them see how long before they come crawling back to the federal government for a loan, or if they just decide to abandon social security of disaster relief.

What do my fellow escapists have to say about this?

DVS BSTrD:
http://www.examiner.com/article/citizens-15-states-file-petitions-to-secede-from-united-states

Most detailed article I could find. So since the election people from 15 have filed to have their states withdraw from the union. The first was filed on Nov 7 from Louisiana. As of the time this article was written the petition had 8,162 signatures and needs 16,838 to reach a goal of 25,000 (when their appeal can be submitted to the president for consideration). The other states are Texas, Kentucky, Colorado, New Jersey, New York, Montana, North Dakota, Indiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Oregon. The Texas petition has acquired 5,289 signatures and the petition for New York was actually filled by a "C R" of Grand Forks, North Dakota on Saturday.

I personally find the possible ramifications of these petitions hilarious. Let them see how long before they come crawling back to the federal government for a loan, or if they just decide to abandon social security of disaster relief.

What do my fellow escapists have to say about this?

I saw this and find it as both hilarious and horrifying if these occur. I mean, we aren't in as much turmoil as in 1861 but the last thing we need is a police action because some dumb group of Texans do something stupid on their border with Mexico.

If they do reach the president's desk, I foresee him just secretly laughing and vetoing it immediately.

No offense to people from the following states, but this is stupid and immature. What delusions do these guys have from the confederacy?

The red states are actually the ones using the most welfare. They're the ones leeching from the union!

Frission:
No offense to people from the following states, but this is stupid and immature. What delusions do these guys have from the confederacy?

The red states are actually the ones using the most welfare. They're the ones leeching from the union!

Better to die destitute than live under a COMMUNIST. Yeah there are people that still believe that shit. I doubt they even have the foresight to start a confederacy, they'll just try to run their states alone.

DVS BSTrD:

Frission:
No offense to people from the following states, but this is stupid and immature. What delusions do these guys have from the confederacy?

The red states are actually the ones using the most welfare. They're the ones leeching from the union!

Better to die destitute than live under a COMMUNIST. Yeah there are people that still believe that shit. I doubt they even have the foresight to start a confederacy, they'll just try to run their states alone.

Texan foreign policy. I can see it now...

*Head turns and looks up*

Texas has experience with being a separate country with it's own government.
I don't know what to think of this, other than the feeling that the US is at an impasse. And this direction has been developing for a very long time.

This sounds like a really good idea. It's something that I could get behind.

I've thought for awhile now that the United States needed another civil war to give it a good kick in the pants. Best part is, I live in a red state.

Union solider double agent FTW!

Fools. There isn't much more to say about them. To much right wing propaganda and not enough education.

Shadowstar38:
This sounds like a really good idea. It's something that I could get behind.

I've thought for awhile now that the United States needed another civil war to give it a good kick in the pants. Best part is, I live in a red state.

Union solider double agent FTW!

...

It's actually not a bad idea.

The nation exploding like this may fix out the kinks in the nation. If anything there won't be the war fascination. People will realize how bad war is.

Look at hurricane Sandy. For the first time people are finally talking about coastal zone management and climate change.

Shadowstar38:
This sounds like a really good idea. It's something that I could get behind.

I've thought for awhile now that the United States needed another civil war to give it a good kick in the pants. Best part is, I live in a red state.

Union solider double agent FTW!

It's Another great idea from the people that brought you "legitimate rape" and who say compromis is agreeing not to shut down the federal government.

So much of me wants to write this off with some sarcastic comment about the "adults" acting like children, but at this point I'm seriously getting worried. Is the America Right devolving into something so entitled and self indulgent that not getting their own way all the time is the worst torture imaginable to them?

Redd the Sock:
So much of me wants to write this off with some sarcastic comment about the "adults" acting like children, but at this point I'm seriously getting worried. Is the America Right devolving into something so entitled and self indulgent that not getting their own way all the time is the worst torture imaginable to them?

What do mean "devolving"? That's what our country was founded on.

RedFeather1975:
Texas has experience with being a separate country with it's own government.
I don't know what to think of this, other than the feeling that the US is at an impasse. And this direction has been developing for a very long time.

That experience would be great if all the people who were in the Independent Texas weren't dead. I guess they could've invested in science to create zombies but this is Texas the anti-science capital of America where they discourage critical thinking because it "harms traditional values" so no way in hell that's possible.

Warforger:

RedFeather1975:
Texas has experience with being a separate country with it's own government.
I don't know what to think of this, other than the feeling that the US is at an impasse. And this direction has been developing for a very long time.

That experience would be great if all the people who were in the Independent Texas weren't dead. I guess they could've invested in science to create zombies but this is Texas the anti-science capital of America where they discourage critical thinking because it "harms traditional values" so no way in hell that's possible.

Queue all the reactionist hypocrites who only get upset about stereotyping when its applied to their segment of the population. ~_~

I live in Texas, and when I told this to people I know in Texas, they thought I was joking..........

Crawling back? I think if Texas were to leave the feds would either declare war or start begging for Texas to come back. Texas has a very large, effective economy. It also has a lot of trading goods. Economically we would be fine. The feds on the other hand would have trouble making up for the loss in tax revenue from not just the state itself but also from the companies headquartered here.

As a side note-

Frission:
No offense to people from the following states, but this is stupid and immature.

Why? They are stating their displeasure with the status quo, as is their right.

What delusions do these guys have from the confederacy?

What delusions do you have?

The red states are actually the ones using the most welfare. They're the ones leeching from the union!

Actually Texas usually pays more to the feds than it receives. In fact part of the problem is that so much of the military, federal land, governmental offices, etc are in red state areas. New Mexico (I know the state actually varies but it is an example) has more federal money put into it per dollar taxed than any other state. Why? Low population combined with a huge amount of federal land, etc.

Warforger:
I guess they could've invested in science to create zombies but this is Texas the anti-science capital of America where they discourage critical thinking because it "harms traditional values" so no way in hell that's possible.

Anti-science capital? Right. I bet you also think we all wear cowboy hats and use chewing tobacco. http://www.texasbiocorridor.org/resources/funding

Texas did not grow to have 4 of the top 10 fastest growing cities in this country by being anti-science. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45hfdf/americas-fastest-growing-cities/

Do not believe all of the propaganda that tries to portray all red states as backwards.

As a man from Alabama I must say that this is a scary thing. A state like Texas that is basically self-sufficient and can take care of itself is one thing, but my state going free lance would be horrible. We can't even get our council groups to pay attention to the will of the people half the time, much less get any kind of infrastructure work done.

No, this is a bad idea and they should feel bad for even considering in. O.O

Texas wasn't part of the confederacy. Pretty sure new jersey wasn't either, I'll have to check my history books.

It's a very minor number of extreme response sort of people living in some states. Hell, some of them were filed from out of state apparently. It's more symbolism then reality.

As a rule I have no issue with secession, but this isn't really a massive population thing.

Not to burst anyone's bubble but I'm pretty sure most of those petitions were made by trolls riding on the idea that so many states have threatened exactly that in the past. If you actually read through them you will see that most of those petitions have the exact same text and explanation without any deviation. I'm not sure if it fills it out for you if you leave it blank or someone is just copy pasting it in there but it looks like they put in awfully little effort for something with such serious ramifications to the state and country.

Unfortunately I'm afraid whether it was a troll post or not I find it somewhat funny and sad that so many people are jumping to sign it and even some in my own state.

It would be an interesting social and economic experiment to be sure, but a highly unethical one as well considering the suffering and loss of life to be expected. I guess as long as people can freely leave and live wherever they want it would be okay...? But who are we kidding, it's not going to happen. Plus, it's just a few thousand people signing on. That's nothing.

I think that there's this thing called "The Right to Cecede". If they do manage to scrounge a geographic stronghold, then fuck yes, do it. I just want to see the response from the federal government. If this moves through we will see some significant changed in the USA.

TheIronRuler:
I think that there's this thing called "The Right to Cecede". If they do manage to scrounge a geographic stronghold, then fuck yes, do it. I just want to see the response from the federal government. If this moves through we will see some significant changed in the USA.

Well, we do...technically have precedent in place for dealing with seceding states; although technically I suppose that they declared war on us first so.

Aslong as they dont suggest violent rebellion like formerly (did they ever get punishment?) i dont see why they should get punished for it. They are just crazy people being crazy, perhaps I'd deny their access to firearms. The wish to start another civil-war is probably caused by a mental-disorder that makes them unfit to use weapons.

farson135:

Why? They are stating their displeasure with the status quo, as is their right.

What delusions do you have?

Anti-science capital? Right. I bet you also think we all wear cowboy hats and use chewing tobacco. http://www.texasbiocorridor.org/resources/funding

Texas did not grow to have 4 of the top 10 fastest growing cities in this country by being anti-science. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45hfdf/americas-fastest-growing-cities/

Do not believe all of the propaganda that tries to portray all red states as backwards.

Perhaps, but it's still pretty immature to threaten to secede after the elections. What you don't think that the recent comments about voter suppression and fraud when Obama won fair and square to be slightly annoying?

What delusions? What are you talking about?
I'm talking about this notion form a well remembered view of the civil war. Every time it's "we'll secede, we'll secede!". What do you mean when you typed "what delusions do you have"? Or was it a rebuttal on the level of "no you"?

On the last part about anti- science. Texas used to be known for TI-84 and for its programs. Recently however it has done things such as deny climate change, rewrite history books to suit its purpose and take a backwards policy on scientific issues. You're well in your right to not want to be called some backward hick, but you'll be hard pressed to call it propaganda. I'm not talking about Kansas or Oklahoma. Not this is Texas and Texas has made questionable decisions on it's school board, on regulations both medical and environmental, on the separation of church and state and on abortion.

Texas also has a bad environmental track record. Texas' oil and gas interests take precedence over climate change, endangered species, and the EPA! So that might be a reason why it's doing so well. Besides, economic growth doesn't necessarily correlate with whether something is "anti science". I'm not sure why you brought the part about economic growth exactly.

You're pretty defensive.

HontooNoNeko:
Unfortunately I'm afraid whether it was a troll post or not I find it somewhat funny and sad that so many people are jumping to sign it and even some in my own state.

These are internet petitions, I doubt it bothers to check and make sure your IP is from the U.S., much less from a specific states. The OP states that the NY petition was started by someone from the Peace Garden State.

In short: Internet people make silly petitions. Silly petitions are silly.

I hereby petition we ignore this crap.

I want to stress that this isn't the states themselves, and by that I mean it is not the governments of those states, it is people in them who just can't accept that their guy lost.

I remember when I was 12 I seceded my bedroom. I now give America 15% of my paycheck as foreign aid, and I'm going to undergo exercises with the US armed forces to make sure they are up to snuff.

I wholeheartedly endorse my future allies.

I can see it now. . .

sigh, why is it often the case with the "right wing"?
FUCK YEAH, DEMOCRACY! but if we lose - we shut down our companies, secede and declare the war!
DEMOCRACY!

silly people - learn to lose.

dont like democracy? i heard north korea has an alternative.....

Bentusi16:
Texas wasn't part of the confederacy. Pretty sure new jersey wasn't either, I'll have to check my history books.

Texas was part of the Confederacy, a lot of Texans didn't want to be part of it though. If I remember right, Sam Houston was basically overruled and forced to join.

Frission:
On the last part about anti- science. Texas used to be know for TI-84 and for its programs. Recently however it has done things such as deny climate change, rewrite history books to suit its purpose and take a backwards policy on scientific issues. You're well in your right to not want to be called some backward hick, but you'll be hard pressed to call it propaganda. I'm not talking about Kansas or Oklahoma. Not this is Texas and Texas has made questionable decisions on it's school board, on regulations both medical and environmental, on the separation of church and state and on abortion.

Texas also has a bad environmental track record. Texas' oil and gas interests take precedence over climate change, endangered species, and the EPA! So that might be a reason why it's doing so well. Besides, economic growth doesn't necessarily correlate with whether something is "anti science". I'm not sure why you brought the part about economic growth exactly.

You're pretty defensive.

Now hold on, Texas Republicans can be very anti-science, but there's plenty of scientific research going on in Texas by corporations. TI's still around along with the Houston Medical Center and various other firms. Texas Republican politicians are anti-science, Texans aren't necessarily anti-science. Important distinction.

Frission:

...

It's actually not a bad idea.

The nation exploding like this may fix out the kinks in the nation. If anything there won't be the war fascination. People will realize how bad war is.

Look at hurricane Sandy. For the first time people are finally talking about coastal zone management and climate change.

No. Just No. Bad Idea. Over the course of the last year, I've made many friends on this site, A lot of whom live in the US. It's why I watch his forum, Not posting, but watching.
And the last thing I want for my friends is Civil War 2.0.

OT: 25,000 in order to considered? Isn't there more then a Million people in each state? Wouldn't they need more? Minority Rule and what not? I can't imagine that Californa's Population would take too kindly to losing all Fed support and services because 25k didn't like the outcome of the election.
/Cali was an example.

If the petition to reveal the White House beer recipe didn't pan out, neither will these petitions..

I wholeheartedly support this, but only for one state; no others are needed. Make it one with lots of desert, rename it Retardistan, and then make a law with a nice name like the 'Creation of Paradise Act' or something, resettling all rabid hardcore conservatives there.

The amount of foreign aid it needs from the US will soon number into the billions of course, but you know it's better for Americans in the long term.

I feel like I was born at the wrong time.

I'm witnessing my nation's most petty, bratty, whiney years.

farson135:
Crawling back? I think if Texas were to leave the feds would either declare war or start begging for Texas to come back. Texas has a very large, effective economy. It also has a lot of trading goods. Economically we would be fine. The feds on the other hand would have trouble making up for the loss in tax revenue from not just the state itself but also from the companies headquartered here.

Financially, the USA could readily leave Texas to secede. It's economy is less than 10% of the USA's. Such is the scale that Texas would need to punch far, far over its weight in tax transfers to significantly dent the USA's general position - and it doesn't.

I can see that Texas contributed an average positive of just under $20 billion (2009 dollars) a year over the last 20 in taxes. That's just 0.5% of the federal budget, which is chicken feed. If Texas left, the USA could make up that 0.5% and more just by downscaling its military proportionally to the demographic/economic change (i.e. an 8.5% or so decrease, equating to about $60 billion).

SajuukKhar:
I live in Texas, and when I told this to people I know in Texas, they thought I was joking..........

Glad you managed to make friends in the smart two thirds.

crimson5pheonix:

Now hold on, Texas Republicans can be very anti-science, but there's plenty of scientific research going on in Texas by corporations. TI's still around along with the Houston Medical Center and various other firms. Texas Republican politicians are anti-science, Texans aren't necessarily anti-science. Important distinction.

So science is good as long as they don't teach it to their kids. I see the tech industry running out of in state recrutes pretty fast once secession goes through. Lots of schools need that federal aid and they ain't gunna raise local taxes to cover the cost. They'd rather die than raise taxes.

They'll end-up being dumb and owned by China.

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