TheGuy(wantstobe): For those that actually desire to keep up to date with this conflict I suggest you go to The Guardian since it has better information flowing from both sides of the line without the bias inherent in this thread.
Total number dead as of this post now lies at 27 Palestinian, 3 Isreali. If ground invasion goes ahead as is suspected in the next 24 the number will likely increase to many, many more times that number.
Names and ages of the dead can be found at the Guardian website if you wish to keep them in your prayers/thoughts.
. Where can I find the names and ages of those dead in the Syrian civil war? Oh wait.
Am I biased? Well, I do try to keep up with the news. Look at my 15th update.
TheGuy(wantstobe): For those that actually desire to keep up to date with this conflict I suggest you go to The Guardian since it has better information flowing from both sides of the line without the bias inherent in this thread.
Total number dead as of this post now lies at 27 Palestinian, 3 Isreali. If ground invasion goes ahead as is suspected in the next 24 the number will likely increase to many, many more times that number.
Names and ages of the dead can be found at the Guardian website if you wish to keep them in your prayers/thoughts.
. Where can I find the names and ages of those dead in the Syrian civil war? Oh wait.
Am I biased? Well, I do try to keep up with the news. Look at my 15th update.
Speaking of which, the Syrian civil war death toll has already surpassed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict death toll. a 1.5 year civil war resulted in more deaths then a 80+ year long conflict.
TheGuy(wantstobe): For those that actually desire to keep up to date with this conflict I suggest you go to The Guardian since it has better information flowing from both sides of the line without the bias inherent in this thread.
Total number dead as of this post now lies at 27 Palestinian, 3 Isreali. If ground invasion goes ahead as is suspected in the next 24 the number will likely increase to many, many more times that number.
Names and ages of the dead can be found at the Guardian website if you wish to keep them in your prayers/thoughts.
. Where can I find the names and ages of those dead in the Syrian civil war? Oh wait.
Am I biased? Well, I do try to keep up with the news. Look at my 15th update.
Speaking of which, the Syrian civil war death toll has already surpassed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict death toll. a 1.5 year civil war resulted in more deaths then a 80+ year long conflict.
and people don't say a damn thing.
. But you can't blame any Jews for the Syrian Civil war! Oh well, I'm sure they will find a way.
I remember two days ago a soldier got hit by a stray bullet from Syrian forces and moderately injured. However everything is concentrated at the Gaza situation. Anyway, now the opposition has official support from France & Gulf States, we will see Assad fall in half a year.
. Where can I find the names and ages of those dead in the Syrian civil war? Oh wait.
Am I biased? Well, I do try to keep up with the news. Look at my 15th update.
Speaking of which, the Syrian civil war death toll has already surpassed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict death toll. a 1.5 year civil war resulted in more deaths then a 80+ year long conflict.
and people don't say a damn thing.
. But you can't blame any Jews for the Syrian Civil war! Oh well, I'm sure they will find a way.
I remember two days ago a soldier got hit by a stray bullet from Syrian forces and moderately injured. However everything is concentrated at the Gaza situation. Anyway, now the opposition has official support from France & Gulf States, we will see Assad fall in half a year.
I'm not one to casually toss around the "no jews, no attention" idea, but frankly, it fits here. 30 deaths in 3 days here, have drawn more attention then the daily, 100 deaths on average, death toll in Syria. no one even reports on what happens in Syria anymore because its just now NEWS anymore.
as for Assad falling, I personally don't see it happening so fast. Russia wants him around, so he'll stay around - at least a while longer. frankly, I'm not sure that's such a bad thing in the grand scheme of things, since the opposition don't look all that friendly.
UPDATE17: Hamas has Iranian made drones in stock. They've been assembling them and experimenting with one before being bombed by the IDF. If they have more in stock somewhere, this can end very badly.
A Hamas high-ranking officer in charge of the middle sector had been assassinated.
TheIronRuler: UPDATE17: Hamas has Iranian made drones in stock. They've been assembling them and experimenting with one before being bombed by the IDF. If they have more in stock somewhere, this can end very badly.
A Hamas high-ranking officer in charge of the middle sector had been assassinated.
Well that's fucking stupid why would you not use your most powerfull weapons the first chance you get.
Helmholtz Watson: Sure it does, because Israel doesn't want to kill Palestinian Americans who have nothing to do with Hamas's military, where as groups like Hamas want to kill Jewish Americans(me) who have nothing to do with Israel's military actions.
Big difference.
You realize you are painting an awful lot of people in awfully broad strokes right?
TheGuy(wantstobe): For those that actually desire to keep up to date with this conflict I suggest you go to The Guardian since it has better information flowing from both sides of the line without the bias inherent in this thread.
Total number dead as of this post now lies at 27 Palestinian, 3 Isreali. If ground invasion goes ahead as is suspected in the next 24 the number will likely increase to many, many more times that number.
Names and ages of the dead can be found at the Guardian website if you wish to keep them in your prayers/thoughts.
. Where can I find the names and ages of those dead in the Syrian civil war? Oh wait.
Am I biased? Well, I do try to keep up with the news. Look at my 15th update.
Speaking of which, the Syrian civil war death toll has already surpassed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict death toll. a 1.5 year civil war resulted in more deaths then a 80+ year long conflict.
and people don't say a damn thing.
Yeah, that's wrong. Looking on Wikipedia, right now the death toll estimates for the Syrian civil war is between 35,000-51,000 and if we're looking at just the Arab-Israeli war, the 6 day war, and the Yom Kippur war the death toll is 44,000-67,000.
And your other statement about how this is making news, of course its making news, its new. The Syrian civil war does not have anything new going on, so why would there be news about it?
TheIronRuler: UPDATE17: Hamas has Iranian made drones in stock. They've been assembling them and experimenting with one before being bombed by the IDF. If they have more in stock somewhere, this can end very badly.
A Hamas high-ranking officer in charge of the middle sector had been assassinated.
Well that's fucking stupid why would you not use your most powerfull weapons the first chance you get.
Note the use of the word experimenting. How can they use them if they're not ready yet?
TheIronRuler: UPDATE17: Hamas has Iranian made drones in stock. They've been assembling them and experimenting with one before being bombed by the IDF. If they have more in stock somewhere, this can end very badly.
A Hamas high-ranking officer in charge of the middle sector had been assassinated.
Well that's fucking stupid why would you not use your most powerfull weapons the first chance you get.
Note the use of the word experimenting. How can they use them if they're not ready yet?
. They weren't fully operational yet and it looked like they didn't know how and when to deploy them since they are almost always watched by eyes in the sky. They failed again and it looks like a warehouse full of the stuff was bombed. Still unsure if this was all of it of if it was a ruse (Actual one experiment, but warehouse not full of them making IDF believe they destroyed all of their drones).
Well that's fucking stupid why would you not use your most powerfull weapons the first chance you get.
Note the use of the word experimenting. How can they use them if they're not ready yet?
. They weren't fully operational yet and it looked like they didn't know how and when to deploy them since they are almost always watched by eyes in the sky. They failed again and it looks like a warehouse full of the stuff was bombed. Still unsure if this was all of it of if it was a ruse (Actual one experiment, but warehouse not full of them making IDF believe they destroyed all of their drones).
Um yeah, just as I was saying, not ready yet plus the additional maybe never would be ready.
Helmholtz Watson: Sure it does, because Israel doesn't want to kill Palestinian Americans who have nothing to do with Hamas's military, where as groups like Hamas want to kill Jewish Americans(me) who have nothing to do with Israel's military actions.
Big difference.
You realize you are painting an awful lot of people in awfully broad strokes right?
. Where can I find the names and ages of those dead in the Syrian civil war? Oh wait.
Am I biased? Well, I do try to keep up with the news. Look at my 15th update.
Speaking of which, the Syrian civil war death toll has already surpassed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict death toll. a 1.5 year civil war resulted in more deaths then a 80+ year long conflict.
and people don't say a damn thing.
Yeah, that's wrong. Looking on Wikipedia, right now the death toll estimates for the Syrian civil war is between 35,000-51,000 and if we're looking at just the Arab-Israeli war, the 6 day war, and the Yom Kippur war the death toll is 44,000-67,000.
I wasn't talking about the entire Arab Israeli conflict. just the Israeli Palestinian one. which has around 15K deaths in total.
Helmholtz Watson: Sure it does, because Israel doesn't want to kill Palestinian Americans who have nothing to do with Hamas's military, where as groups like Hamas want to kill Jewish Americans(me) who have nothing to do with Israel's military actions.
Big difference.
You realize you are painting an awful lot of people in awfully broad strokes right?
Speaking of which, the Syrian civil war death toll has already surpassed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict death toll. a 1.5 year civil war resulted in more deaths then a 80+ year long conflict.
and people don't say a damn thing.
Yeah, that's wrong. Looking on Wikipedia, right now the death toll estimates for the Syrian civil war is between 35,000-51,000 and if we're looking at just the Arab-Israeli war, the 6 day war, and the Yom Kippur war the death toll is 44,000-67,000.
I wasn't talking about the entire Arab Israeli conflict. just the Israeli Palestinian one. which has around 15K deaths in total.
Ah, found a source that does indeed say that, but from 1948-2009, so it doesn't include any of the fighting that went on before Israel was founded, which would increase that.
Although I would question why you are separating those out, as I doubt those are different issues in their mind.
You realize you are painting an awful lot of people in awfully broad strokes right?
Yeah, that's wrong. Looking on Wikipedia, right now the death toll estimates for the Syrian civil war is between 35,000-51,000 and if we're looking at just the Arab-Israeli war, the 6 day war, and the Yom Kippur war the death toll is 44,000-67,000.
I wasn't talking about the entire Arab Israeli conflict. just the Israeli Palestinian one. which has around 15K deaths in total.
Ah, found a source that does indeed say that, but from 1948-2009, so it doesn't include any of the fighting that went on before Israel was founded, which would increase that.
Although I would question why you are separating those out, as I doubt those are different issues in their mind.
the reason I'm separating those two is that the wars between Israel and its neighbors are less to do with the Palestinians (who are, at best, used as an excuse) and more to do with internal politics in those countries. mostly, it was an attempt at gaining greater regional influence, coupled with attempts at wagging the dog. to be honest, I don't even think there IS an Arab Israeli conflict at this point. Jordan and Egypt have had peace treaties with Israel for decades, and Syria has effectively (though not officially) accepted an end to the conflict for the most part. its mostly just talk at this point.
the Israeli Palestinian conflict is the one issue that gets so much media attention, and hence, the one I talked about regarding the death tolls.
and the pre-Israel era has around 5000 deaths total on both sides if i recall correctly.
I wasn't talking about the entire Arab Israeli conflict. just the Israeli Palestinian one. which has around 15K deaths in total.
Ah, found a source that does indeed say that, but from 1948-2009, so it doesn't include any of the fighting that went on before Israel was founded, which would increase that.
Although I would question why you are separating those out, as I doubt those are different issues in their mind.
the reason I'm separating those two is that the wars between Israel and its neighbors are less to do with the Palestinians (who are, at best, used as an excuse) and more to do with internal politics in those countries. to be honest, I don't even think there IS an Arab Israeli conflict at this point. Jordan and Egypt have had peace treaties with Israel for decades, and Syria has effectively (though not officially) accepted an end to the conflict for the most part. its mostly just talk at this point.
the Israeli Palestinian conflict is the one issue that gets so much media attention, and hence, the one I talked about regarding the death tolls.
and the pre-Israel era has around 5000 deaths total on both sides if i recall correctly.
Eh, I would generally agree with that. I think the threat to Israel by other official nations has very much eroded by now. However, I think in general the Israeli-Palestinian conflict doesn't get too much media attention, the past day notwithstanding. As I said earlier, there is news when there are changes, no changes means no news and there have been many things underway today.
What coverage there is seems to me to be more of a litmus test of American politicians, and not really actually about the conflict. Republicans stand up and talk about "strength" Democrats stand up and talk about..."negotiations" I guess, the Democrat talking points don't boil down as well, but I'm sure you get the idea.
The Times tomorrow to have this as it's leading story. Senior IDF officials have made overtures to them about expecting to launch ground invasion this weekend will be part of the story.
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHBzOi8vcGJzLnR3aW1nLmNvbS9tZWRpYS9BNzJyVVZQQ1lBQVJQQWYucG5nOmxhcmdlIiBhbHQ9ImltYWdlIi8+PC9wPg==
TheGuy(wantstobe): The Times tomorrow to have this as it's leading story. Senior IDF officials have made overtures to them about expecting to launch ground invasion this weekend will be part of the story.
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHBzOi8vcGJzLnR3aW1nLmNvbS9tZWRpYS9BNzJyVVZQQ1lBQVJQQWYucG5nOmxhcmdlIiBhbHQ9ImltYWdlIi8+PC9wPg==
. They're itching to get in, but the PM&his ministers won't give the order.
TheGuy(wantstobe): The Times tomorrow to have this as it's leading story. Senior IDF officials have made overtures to them about expecting to launch ground invasion this weekend will be part of the story.
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHBzOi8vcGJzLnR3aW1nLmNvbS9tZWRpYS9BNzJyVVZQQ1lBQVJQQWYucG5nOmxhcmdlIiBhbHQ9ImltYWdlIi8+PC9wPg==
At first I only saw the ads and I thought "Wow, what a great bit of sarcasm on how this doesn't get appropriate news coverage!"
Danish radio had an interview with an "Israeli peace activist" Gershon Baskin, who claimed that he had a almost a finished negotiations for a ceasefire between Hamas and Isreal Monday this week. Apparently there have been tensions of quite some time.
Can one of our Israeli writers tell 1)has there been tensions for some time? and 2)is it credible Gershon Baskin can negotiate this kind of deal?
Gorr: Danish radio had an interview with an "Israeli peace activist" Gershon Baskin, who claimed that he had a almost a finished negotiations for a ceasefire between Hamas and Isreal Monday this week. Apparently there have been tensions of quite some time.
Can one of our Israeli writers tell 1)has there been tensions for some time? and 2)is it credible Gershon Baskin can negotiate this kind of deal?
. 2 - Unimportant bullshit.
1 - YES. Very much YES. Hell, ever since Cast Lead hamas had been firing rockets at Israel. No news reports, nobody praying for Israel. Lately it had escalated with a bomb-tunnel, border-fence skirmishes and Hamas' allies no abiding to Egyptian brokered ceasefire. It was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Gorr: Danish radio had an interview with an "Israeli peace activist" Gershon Baskin, who claimed that he had a almost a finished negotiations for a ceasefire between Hamas and Isreal Monday this week. Apparently there have been tensions of quite some time.
Can one of our Israeli writers tell 1)has there been tensions for some time? and 2)is it credible Gershon Baskin can negotiate this kind of deal?
don't know who this Gershon Baskin is. and there are ALWAYS tensions. but in the past two weeks, there has been a steady increase in rocket fire from Gaza, coupled with an attack on an IDF border patrol jeep that injured several soldiers and an attempt to tunnel under the border. so things WERE more tense then usual.
Gorr: Danish radio had an interview with an "Israeli peace activist" Gershon Baskin, who claimed that he had a almost a finished negotiations for a ceasefire between Hamas and Isreal Monday this week. Apparently there have been tensions of quite some time.
Can one of our Israeli writers tell 1)has there been tensions for some time? and 2)is it credible Gershon Baskin can negotiate this kind of deal?
don't know who this Gershon Baskin is. and there are ALWAYS tensions. but in the past two weeks, there has been a steady increase in rocket fire from Gaza, coupled with an attack on an IDF boarder patrol jeep that injured several soldiers. so things WERE more tense then usual.
. He's an interesting bloke. He was the mediator between Israel and Hamas in the Cpl. Shalit kidnapping case - he made the deal happen.
Gorr: Danish radio had an interview with an "Israeli peace activist" Gershon Baskin, who claimed that he had a almost a finished negotiations for a ceasefire between Hamas and Isreal Monday this week. Apparently there have been tensions of quite some time.
Can one of our Israeli writers tell 1)has there been tensions for some time? and 2)is it credible Gershon Baskin can negotiate this kind of deal?
don't know who this Gershon Baskin is. and there are ALWAYS tensions. but in the past two weeks, there has been a steady increase in rocket fire from Gaza, coupled with an attack on an IDF boarder patrol jeep that injured several soldiers. so things WERE more tense then usual.
The unfortunate killing of a mentally disturbed man and a 13 year old boy in the days preceding the attack on the IDF jeep certainly didn't help to calm things down at all and might have been the precipitating action causing the jeep missile firing.(note the use of the word might. It is just as likely the missile at the jeep would have been launched anyway but to ignore that it could have been the cause is foolish) This lead to the assassination of Jabari for failing to keep even a semblance of control leading to more rockets and more retaliations leading to where we are now.
you can read the reports from the UN regarding the instances above here.
Gorr: Danish radio had an interview with an "Israeli peace activist" Gershon Baskin, who claimed that he had a almost a finished negotiations for a ceasefire between Hamas and Isreal Monday this week. Apparently there have been tensions of quite some time.
Can one of our Israeli writers tell 1)has there been tensions for some time? and 2)is it credible Gershon Baskin can negotiate this kind of deal?
don't know who this Gershon Baskin is. and there are ALWAYS tensions. but in the past two weeks, there has been a steady increase in rocket fire from Gaza, coupled with an attack on an IDF boarder patrol jeep that injured several soldiers. so things WERE more tense then usual.
The unfortunate killing of a mentally disturbed man and a 13 year old boy in the days preceding the attack on the IDF jeep certainly didn't help to calm things down at all and might have been the precipitating action causing the jeep missile firing.(note the use of the word might. It is just as likely the missile at the jeep would have been launched anyway but to ignore that it could have been the cause is foolish) This lead to the assassination of Jabari for failing to keep even a semblance of control leading to more rockets and more retaliations leading to where we are now.
you can read the reports from the UN regarding the instances above here.
. I remember the mentally disturbed man ran at the border and didn't stop till they put a bullet in him.
Anyway, I don't think this had anything to do with the rocket launch. You also forgot the explosives-tunnel they found dug underneath the border.
I think the 2 hour delay in allowing him medical attention was what upset most people.
TheGuy(wantstobe): you can read the reports from the UN regarding the instances above here.
Interesting reading.
The difference in response in Palestinian on settler violence;
"Earlier in the week, on 2 November, a Palestinian stabbed and injured an Israeli settler in the neighbourhood of Ras al Amud, an incident resulting in a search-and arrest operation by Israeli forces in which 12 Palestinians were reportedly detained."
and settler on Palestinian violence;
"On 3 November, settlers also raided Urif village (Nablus), clashing with local residents and injuring one Palestinian man. Urif is one of six Palestinian communities systematically targeted by settlers from the nearby Yitzhar settlement. The attacks have severely undermined the physical security and livelihoods of Urif's residents."
I suppose that is why the settlers injure Palestinians at a rate of 4-5 to 1 (75 settlers to 347 Palestinians in 2011 and 2012).
I wonder what I would do if confronted with that kind of inequality.
I wonder if I would be able to restrain myself from vigilante activities (and so end up being called a 'terrorist') .
I think the 2 hour delay in allowing him medical attention was what upset most people.
TheGuy(wantstobe): you can read the reports from the UN regarding the instances above here.
Interesting reading.
The difference in response in Palestinian on settler violence;
"Earlier in the week, on 2 November, a Palestinian stabbed and injured an Israeli settler in the neighbourhood of Ras al Amud, an incident resulting in a search-and arrest operation by Israeli forces in which 12 Palestinians were reportedly detained."
and settler on Palestinian violence;
"On 3 November, settlers also raided Urif village (Nablus), clashing with local residents and injuring one Palestinian man. Urif is one of six Palestinian communities systematically targeted by settlers from the nearby Yitzhar settlement. The attacks have severely undermined the physical security and livelihoods of Urif's residents."
I suppose that is why the settlers injure Palestinians at a rate of 4-5 to 1 (75 settlers to 347 Palestinians in 2011 and 2012).
I wonder what I would do if confronted with that kind of inequality.
I wonder if I would be able to restrain myself from vigilante activities (and so end up being called a 'terrorist') .
. Aye, actions like this are of course meant to increase the security of your own people. You're only a freedom fighter if people think your lives are worth more than others. PKK, I look at you.
BTW, you're doing it again. You're putting irrelevant information here on the thread. You did start your own Jewish terrorists thread once, why not do it again?
Helmholtz Watson: why doesn't Hamas also focus on Jordan in addition to Israel?
Because Hamas gets it's money and equipment from Iran. Iran doesn't give two fucks about Jordan, but are incredibly nervous about the likelihood of an Israeli attack against their nuclear facilities. What they need is for Israel to become an international pariah again so that they don't get much in the way of international support for any military action against Iran.
Easiest way to do that? Give Hamas lots of shiny rockets then sit back and await the inevitable.
Helmholtz Watson: why doesn't Hamas also focus on Jordan in addition to Israel?
Because Hamas gets it's money and equipment from Iran. Iran doesn't give two fucks about Jordan, but are incredibly nervous about the likelihood of an Israeli attack against their nuclear facilities. What they need is for Israel to become an international pariah again so that they don't get much in the way of international support for any military action against Iran.
Easiest way to do that? Give Hamas lots of shiny rockets then sit back and await the inevitable.
. One of the reasons why I dread a military ground operation in Gaza. IDF, don't do it! Your surgical strikes are good enough.
Initially thought the south was referring to the old confederacy, don't get my hopes up like that! As for this, shy of a strategic nuclear attack it seems that Israel can easily fight off any conventional attacks with western backing with low casualties.
I still don't understand why the United States persists in their little crusader state project in the Middle East. What tangible benefit is there to all of it?
Istvan: Initially thought the south was referring to the old confederacy, don't get my hopes up like that! As for this, shy of a strategic nuclear attack it seems that Israel can easily fight off any conventional attacks with western backing with low casualties.
I still don't understand why the United States persists in their little crusader state project in the Middle East. What tangible benefit is there to all of it?
. No other nation in the area would accept such a relationship with the USA and be its ally&proxy in the region, however the situation is slowly starting to change. Look at it this way - France was Israel's ally up to its retreat from Algeria when it started mending its relationship with the Arab world. The same could be said about the USA - now they are only starting to fix relationship with the Arab and Muslim world, and it looks like Israel will be abandoned soon enough.
Helmholtz Watson: why doesn't Hamas also focus on Jordan in addition to Israel?
Because Hamas gets it's money and equipment from Iran. Iran doesn't give two fucks about Jordan, but are incredibly nervous about the likelihood of an Israeli attack against their nuclear facilities. What they need is for Israel to become an international pariah again so that they don't get much in the way of international support for any military action against Iran.
Easiest way to do that? Give Hamas lots of shiny rockets then sit back and await the inevitable.
. One of the reasons why I dread a military ground operation in Gaza. IDF, don't do it! Your surgical strikes are good enough.
The problem is, are they though? Israel seems to be caught between a rock and a hard place quite frankly. The surgical strikes are effective to a point, and while the civilian casualties are a terrible tragedy Israel can not be held responsible for Hamas operating from behind a human shield. Anybody who actually bothers to do their homework instead of believing the lefty media should realise this.
The thing is though, how do you surgically strike at, for example, a tunnel that you don't know about and can't see? Like the ones that were discovered at the border.
With the escalation in Hamas attacks, reactionary surgical strikes are now not enough. The strategic situation practically demands a ground assault although I suspect any ground operation will be a case of "In, blow stuff up, out" in as short a period of time as possible. Israel can not afford a protracted ground war or occupation in the long term.
Why? Well, as I already mentioned it is pretty much inevitable that Israel will try to do something about Iran's nuclear program, with or without international support. Of course, it will be much easier to do with that support, and Iran would be less likely to try anything dumb in retaliation but the IDF can't ignore the possibility that Iran will react to any strikes. They won't want to be mired down in Gaza at that point.
Iran is the key to everything going on here. They are standing behind Hamas egging them on, knowing that if they play the PR game properly, the loony left in the West will swallow the lies about Israel being the wrongdoer and leave Israel isolated and alone.
Unfortunately, it seems to be working as there are too many people who fail to grasp that there is a difference between deliberately targeting civilians, and targeting military forces hiding behind civilians. They also swallow the rubbish about Israeli aggression while ignoring the fact that Israel has pretty much been under constant attack since day 1, from one direction or another. I was actually stopped in the street yesterday by some bloke with a clip board collecting signatures for a petition - calling for the government to publicly condemn Israel. He got quite excitable and irate when I asked him why on earth I would sign a petition in support of an organisation whose stated aim is the destruction of an entire nation and it's people - a nation whose only "crime" is to be able to punch back harder every time they are attacked. He couldn't answer rationally, so simply resorted to calling me an Islamophobe, a racist and - unbelievably - a Nazi. I swear he almost popped a blood vessel when I pointed out the irony of labeling anyone who is pro-Israel as a Nazi!
I fully anticipate that this will come to a head around Christmas or early in the new year. Israel has elections upcoming in January, and traditionally with Israeli elections, he who smites hardest wins the most votes. Expect loud bangs in remote parts of Iran before then.
Because Hamas gets it's money and equipment from Iran. Iran doesn't give two fucks about Jordan, but are incredibly nervous about the likelihood of an Israeli attack against their nuclear facilities. What they need is for Israel to become an international pariah again so that they don't get much in the way of international support for any military action against Iran.
Easiest way to do that? Give Hamas lots of shiny rockets then sit back and await the inevitable.
. One of the reasons why I dread a military ground operation in Gaza. IDF, don't do it! Your surgical strikes are good enough.
The problem is, are they though? Israel seems to be caught between a rock and a hard place quite frankly. The surgical strikes are effective to a point, and while the civilian casualties are a terrible tragedy Israel can not be held responsible for Hamas operating from behind a human shield. Anybody who actually bothers to do their homework instead of believing the lefty media should realise this.
The thing is though, how do you surgically strike at, for example, a tunnel that you don't know about and can't see? Like the ones that were discovered at the border.
With the escalation in Hamas attacks, reactionary surgical strikes are now not enough. The strategic situation practically demands a ground assault although I suspect any ground operation will be a case of "In, blow stuff up, out" in as short a period of time as possible. Israel can not afford a protracted ground war or occupation in the long term.
Why? Well, as I already mentioned it is pretty much inevitable that Israel will try to do something about Iran's nuclear program, with or without international support. Of course, it will be much easier to do with that support, and Iran would be less likely to try anything dumb in retaliation but the IDF can't ignore the possibility that Iran will react to any strikes. They won't want to be mired down in Gaza at that point.
Iran is the key to everything going on here. They are standing behind Hamas egging them on, knowing that if they play the PR game properly, the loony left in the West will swallow the lies about Israel being the wrongdoer and leave Israel isolated and alone.
Unfortunately, it seems to be working as there are too many people who fail to grasp that there is a difference between deliberately targeting civilians, and targeting military forces hiding behind civilians. They also swallow the rubbish about Israeli aggression while ignoring the fact that Israel has pretty much been under constant attack since day 1, from one direction or another. I was actually stopped in the street yesterday by some bloke with a clip board collecting signatures for a petition - calling for the government to publicly condemn Israel. He got quite excitable and irate when I asked him why on earth I would sign a petition in support of an organisation whose stated aim is the destruction of an entire nation and it's people - a nation whose only "crime" is to be able to punch back harder every time they are attacked. He couldn't answer rationally, so simply resorted to calling me an Islamophobe, a racist and - unbelievably - a Nazi. I swear he almost popped a blood vessel when I pointed out the irony of labeling anyone who is pro-Israel as a Nazi!
I fully anticipate that this will come to a head around Christmas or early in the new year. Israel has elections upcoming in January, and traditionally with Israeli elections, he who smites hardest wins the most votes. Expect loud bangs in remote parts of Iran before then.
. It's not just that - they've been assassinating more Hamas brass and blowing up government(Hamas) buildings. You are right though - I heard cries of retaking Rafiah passage and putting a force there to cut the Gaza strip from Egypt... but what the hell would happen now with the new Egypt? Furthermore, Sinai is a demilitarized zone for Egypt, but it doesn't stop other terrorists and militants from firing at Israel and attacking IDF forces from the Egyptian side. Hell, not once did they fire mortars and rockets at Eilat from Sinai.
...But that's not it about the elections. I hate it when I see people say that this is because of the elections in Israel, there is little correlation between operations in Gaza with Israeli elections. Saying that the right wing Likud party would get voters because it's at war is preposterous. More often than not the party who's in charge of an operation will get flack for losing the lives of civilians and soldiers. Hell, there are no political figures in the media and the campaign had halted. Journalists were stunned that in the first two days nobody stood against the attack publicly and that the party leaders didn't say anything besides "We support the attack to stop Hamas from firing rockets at southern Israel". In the second evening Hadash (Leftist crazy Jewish-Arab Communists) started proper (Large scale with public figures) protests in Tel-Aviv.
EDIT: They compared Zionists to Nazis. Yes, I've seen it before and I just had nothing to say. Nothing... There is nothing you can say to sway that mind away. How can you even compare?
...But that's not it about the elections. I hate it when I see people say that this is because of the elections in Israel, there is little correlation between operations in Gaza with Israeli elections. Saying that the right wing Likud party would get voters because it's at war is preposterous. More often than not the party who's in charge of an operation will get flack for losing the lives of civilians and soldiers. Hell, there are no political figures in the media and the campaign had halted. Journalists were stunned that in the first two days nobody stood against the attack publicly and that the party leaders didn't say anything besides "We support the attack to stop Hamas from firing rockets at southern Israel". In the second evening Hadash (Leftist crazy Jewish-Arab Communists) started proper (Large scale with public figures) protests in Tel-Aviv.
I think I may not have made my point about this properly. I make no claim to have the depth of knowledge that you clearly do of Israeli internal politics - this is an important point to make here, and I base my opinion solely on what I know as an outside observer and from the history books...
The thing is, I agree 100% about the loss of life thing - which is one of several reasons why I suspect the IDF will be in and back out as fast as possible if they do go in to Gaza.
Something the Israelis are very good at is air strikes. The Israeli air force has some of the most sophisticated kit in the world, and make damn good use of it. There is no reason to think they couldn't get through Iran's air defence network and make some large holes in the nuclear programe with little or no losses to Israeli forces.
How much popular support would the leader who effectively rendered Iran's nuclear programe impotent gain?
...But that's not it about the elections. I hate it when I see people say that this is because of the elections in Israel, there is little correlation between operations in Gaza with Israeli elections. Saying that the right wing Likud party would get voters because it's at war is preposterous. More often than not the party who's in charge of an operation will get flack for losing the lives of civilians and soldiers. Hell, there are no political figures in the media and the campaign had halted. Journalists were stunned that in the first two days nobody stood against the attack publicly and that the party leaders didn't say anything besides "We support the attack to stop Hamas from firing rockets at southern Israel". In the second evening Hadash (Leftist crazy Jewish-Arab Communists) started proper (Large scale with public figures) protests in Tel-Aviv.
I think I may not have made my point about this properly. I make no claim to have the depth of knowledge that you clearly do of Israeli internal politics - this is an important point to make here, and I base my opinion solely on what I know as an outside observer and from the history books...
The thing is, I agree 100% about the loss of life thing - which is one of several reasons why I suspect the IDF will be in and back out as fast as possible if they do go in to Gaza.
Something the Israelis are very good at is air strikes. The Israeli air force has some of the most sophisticated kit in the world, and make damn good use of it. There is no reason to think they couldn't get through Iran's air defence network and make some large holes in the nuclear programe with little or no losses to Israeli forces.
How much popular support would the leader who effectively rendered Iran's nuclear programe impotent gain?
. Popular support? We would be on the verge of a one party system... Nah, I'm exaggerating, but any PM who could take credit for that and survive the fallout from that operation will have such a track record that I doubt he'll lose an election ever again.
EDIT: However I do want to add here... There are internal problems in Israel, and atm people are running for office on populism. YES, that. Here's an example - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN4iKNnpKwM This is the leader of Kadima. The slogo says - "Bibi will get us in trouble". Bibi is a pet name reluctantly given to Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel's current PM. He was running on FEAR. Same can be said about the Labor party. You can see over here the if we take out the security issues, there are still internal problems however people will elect the one who "took care of things" just because he did.
Still, my personal feeling on this is: the only way this is going to be resolved once and for all is if one side gets wiped out near entirely. A shame though, as it seemed at one time there was a majority on both sides' that wanted to see the hostilities end and a two-state solution be achieved. Which would be the more mature thing...but when has humanity ever reached something THAT peaceful when religion is involved?
Popular support? We would be on the verge of a one party system... Nah, I'm exaggerating, but any PM who could take credit for that and survive the fallout from that operation will have such a track record that I doubt he'll lose an election ever again.
Which was the point I did a botched job of trying to make originally.
EDIT: However I do want to add here... There are internal problems in Israel, and atm people are running for office on populism. YES, that. Here's an example - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN4iKNnpKwM This is the leader of Kadima. The slogo says - "Bibi will get us in trouble". Bibi is a pet name reluctantly given to Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel's current PM. He was running on FEAR. Same can be said about the Labor party. You can see over here the if we take out the security issues, there are still internal problems however people will elect the one who "took care of things" just because he did.
Which is pretty much how politics works everywhere, unfortunately.
Regrettably, it doesn't look like this situation is going to go away any time soon though. I've just been reading a summary of various media reports and editorials from media outlets all over the region.
Israeli media seems to be divided pretty evenly between those calling for Hamas to be smashed into little pieces and those calling for calmness and a more measured response.
Sadly, but predictably, pretty much all of the Arab media seems to be full of the same old hate filled zealotry and calls for "The Enemy" to be attacked without mercy.
That said, I can't see anyone else (other than Hezbollah maybe) mobilising against Israel. Jordan has no interest in this. Syria is in no shape to try moving against Israel, and even if their civil war ended this afternoon their equipment must be pretty much shagged out after 18 months of constant operations. Egypt isn't really in any shape to be going to war either although it seems the Camp David agreement is now a thing of the past.
Besides, it's the worst kept secret in the world that Israel has undeclared nukes (most estimates put the number at around 250) and the means to deliver them. Most of the neighbours probably know this too and must realise that it's not a good idea to push too hard. Apart from the lunatics in Tehran perhaps.
.
Where can I find the names and ages of those dead in the Syrian civil war? Oh wait.
Am I biased? Well, I do try to keep up with the news. Look at my 15th update.