So apparntly the U.S. is in for "Civil War 2"

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ok so the thread title is a little ahead of itself, but im actually surprised by this

http://news.msn.com/politics/seven-states-qualify-for-secession-response-from-white-house-3

seriously, people are really butthurt about romney not winning, and its hilarious! its basically them being kids at a playground who lost at a kids game, taking their toys and leaving. Your guys' thoughts?

In this day and age, 25,000 signatures mean absolutely nothing. Over two hundred years ago, it did. If Obama is smart, he would say no to these 'succession requests' and say it plainly. 25,000 people do not have the power to dictate what a state wants, since they mostly have more than one million people at least. The fact that these succession requests are signed by out of state citizens, that too practically makes these requests complete bull. If more than 25,000 people from the specific state signed the petition, then it would have a higher weight in the meaning.

These petitions for breaking away from the Union are a large sham.

I don't think you should make a joke of this. But, maybe that's just me.

I personally feel the country is very divided, dangerously divided. Your beliefs may not match theirs. That's cool. It just turns out that they have the right to be vocal, just like you. You don't like it? That's cool, but they have the right to speak up. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that they can't.

I'm kinda sick of the bashing this forum has against those who have different points of view.

It's not really that worrying, and I wouldn't really take it at all seriously. Me and my roommate would have signed if one hadn't already made it to the required signatures.

Why? We thought it'd be interesting to hear Obama's response, largely as a laugh. As was said above, 25k signatures is nothing.

I think you'll find that the civil war actually started in 2004, with all out battle starting in 2008. But, seriously 100 000 signatures is nothing. It is just the losing party overreacting like they always do, by being completely crazy. Nothing will come from this so just take the opportunity to laugh, it makes a nice break from the racism. This still isn't as funny as the hard-core Republicans talking about moving to Canada though.

No, it's not.

It's too late for civil war to work in a place like this. It's just cutting off the nose, hand, and foot to spite your own face. This is merely the cry of alot of people not ready for reality.

Houston, TX has 2 million people in it alone.[1] I don't think +90k are a drop in the bucket. That's almost the population of Odessa, Tx, which isn't really that large of a town. Those few people shouldn't be able to dictate whether or not Texas secedes from the Union.

IMHO, people are making a big deal out of it. Sure, there are a number of people in about 30 states or so that want to leave the Union. But these, as far as I know, are not even a quarter of the populations of each state. Also, it's not as if any state officials are supporting these measures, (as far as I know). Hell, I don't even think Perry (R,TX) is supporting this movement.

[1] Statistics brought to you by Google search and maybe completely incorrect.

Compare the amount of people not wanting to secede against those who do. This current amount only warrants recognition from the white house... but they don't really have to.

bleys2487:
I don't think you should make a joke of this. But, maybe that's just me.

I personally feel the country is very divided, dangerously divided. Your beliefs may not match theirs. That's cool. It just turns out that they have the right to be vocal, just like you. You don't like it? That's cool, but they have the right to speak up. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that they can't.

I'm kinda sick of the bashing this forum has against those who have different points of view.

The right to speak up extends both ways. These people have the right to voice their dissatisfaction with the presidential election and propose whatever shenanigans they want to remedy the situation. The rest of us have the right to call their "solutions" out on being crazy though, because that's how freedom of speech work.

Let's face it: This is a joke. People who just a few weeks ago were calling the USA the greatest country in the world and who thought democracy was the best form of government gets so upset over losing the election that they'd rather destroy their own country and forsake one of the most fundamental aspects of democracy, just because the outcome didn't favor them. So they are either massive hypocrites or people who need a crash course in "not acting like a five year old".

It seems important to note the other petitions in recent years that have managed to garner the same number of signatures as well.

Every year, groups send such petitions to the White House demanding that all evidence of the aliens/UFOs that the military owns be shown to the public.

Heck, last year, one of the bigger petitions asked for the recipe of the beer the White House served.

This entire fiasco makes for good, sensationalistic journalism; but is nothing more than interesting press. As someone else said on the forums, when the number of signatures closes in on 50% of the state population, THEN we can take it more seriously.

Gethsemani:
So they are either massive hypocrites or people who need a crash course in "not acting like a five year old".

I'd like to take a third option: It's both at once.

Also, this is the fourth option:

bleys2487:
I don't think you should make a joke of this. But, maybe that's just me.

I personally feel the country is very divided, dangerously divided. Your beliefs may not match theirs. That's cool. It just turns out that they have the right to be vocal, just like you. You don't like it? That's cool, but they have the right to speak up. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that they can't.

I'm kinda sick of the bashing this forum has against those who have different points of view.

It's hard not to make a joke of grown men and women throwing a full on temper tantrum because they lost an election. They have the right to speak. We have the right to point out how much it resembles the act of a spoiled 6 year old, how acting this way largely invalidated democracy, and how if they aren't happy with the way things are going they have to present a better case to do things their way instead of expecting the rest of the country will go along with what doesn't seem to be our best interests.

The united states is dangerously divided, but it is also in no particular danger of civil war even if matters escalate.

Not necessarily because some of these hotheads wouldn't take it that far, but because there are no battle lines, no territory that any one faction can claim without serious contest.

bleys2487:
I don't think you should make a joke of this. But, maybe that's just me.

I personally feel the country is very divided, dangerously divided. Your beliefs may not match theirs. That's cool. It just turns out that they have the right to be vocal, just like you. You don't like it? That's cool, but they have the right to speak up. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that they can't.

I'm kinda sick of the bashing this forum has against those who have different points of view.

If the number of people wanting succession equaled out to 50% of the state and over, then I'd take it seriously. Right now, I'm going to make as many jokes as I want because of how stupid this is.

If Romney won, and Obama supporters started throwing a fit and trying this crap, I'd call it stupid as well.

You're in a democracy. The people voted for the other guy. You have to deal with it.

I respect everyone's opinion, rest assured. But until I find a person who can give me intelligent reasons why this is a good idea, I'll give no credence to it.

Sure, it shows division, but until something actually happens I won't believe it. And I mean something big. Even if, say, far-right terrorists were to kill a bunch of people over this, this would still not mean an actual new civil war was incoming.

Shadowstar38:
Snip

Actually, Shadow, I had asked in the original thread about this crap why this shit wasn't happening with Bush.

DVS BSTrD:
It's only unpatriotic to question the government in a time of war. Now that we're out: EVERYTHING IS THE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT AGAIN!

NameIsRobertPaulson:

Because the democrats aren't crybabies that want to leave the playground when they don't get to pick teams.

As a result, I dubbed them to be members of team Make Sense, because they did.

A bunch of online petitions, several of which were created by people outside the state the petition is asking for succession, and who have many signatures from people outside the state........

Since when would anyone take this seriously?

Let me put it this way, when I saw the updates this morning, it was said that they all collectively had 700k signatures. Big number right? Eh, yes, but all things considered, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if many of those signatures were duplicates (in the "Man X signed the petition for Arizona, Texas and Nevada" sense, not the "Man X signed the Texas petition 3 times" sense), and in terms of proportion...well suffice to say that the estimated population of the US as of 2012 is 314,768,000. 700k is equal to approximately 0.22%. Not exactly at Civil War levels, especially considering that
A) This is nothing new. Similar petitions were made for the 2008 and 2004 elections
B) There is no IP lock for the petitions[1] meaning - as noted priorly - there may be some overlap that artificially inflates the totals and the totals aren't necessarily reflective of the state itself.
C) The timing is such that it's difficult to take it any more seriously than the claims of moving to Australia if President Obama got a second term.
D) For all the complaints people like to make about the country, general circumstances (ESPECIALLY among those that would have the resources to actually sign an internet petition) are not such that armed revolution would get much steam behind it.

[1] I'm looking at the Texas petition right now, and amongst a LOT of people from undeclared locations I'm also seeing a signators who list their location as Paradise Valley Arizona, Irvine California, Albuquerque NM, Utah (no city given), Fort Myers Florida, Blaine Washington and Ardmore Pennsylvania. And that's just within the top 36 signatures as of this posting

Nothing but a bunch of little dogs parking, pay no attention to such fools, or charge them with treason. *shrug*

The U.S economy is fragile right now. Hypothetically if these states break away the economies will likely crumble into chaos. Then there is the sanctioning that would probably occur to force the separating states back into the union. I think giving attention to these groups will only add fuel to the fire.

I say let them fight it off. maybe they will come out of it smarter. It worked for europe. sure at a high price, but it worked.

while your country is divided i dont see you guys on the verge of a civil war. apart from slacktivist petitions online there arent any demonstrations in the streets, no mass protests, no taking up of arms, its business as usual and will remain so until your average person in the street believes war, chaos and destruction is better than the comfort they currently experience.

Pft, anyone can get people to sign a petition.

Remember the Stop Kony bullshit?

Just shut up and wait four years. All it is, is a bunch of whining by people sore from the election results. Obama won, Romney didn't; deal with it. It's not the end of the world and you'll have your chance to vote between two shitty candidates next election as well.

My favorites would be the combination of the counter petition that asks Obama to deport everyone that signed a secession petition and the other that states that those petitioners can leave only after they pay their share of the debt while receiving no federal assistance until their share's paid. Considering the fact of Red State socialism the second guarantees nobody will secede ever. They can't balance their fucking budget while getting grant money (that they pretend to hate but never fail to cash the check for), let alone without it. Hell half of Red America would be forced to sell their shitty flyover state and their whole state population at cost just to have a hope in hell of making ends meet. Then we can sell those people to the United Arab Emirates where they can live in their income tax free, women and gay hating, theocratic, oil company owned paradise, free of pestering things like not having my job dictate my life decisions. Boom everybody wins.

I can't take this seriously. It's like the people who threatened to leave the country (and didn't) when Bush got reelected. And the people threatening to do the same now. All it is is a bunch of hot air being vented by the melodramatic. There's no point in even covering this "secession" thing until some organization is actually going door-to-door collecting real life signatures for a real measure on a real ballot. Until then, pfft.

So, 25.000 people? At the 2012 population estimate of the US population of 314.768.000, if I got the math right, that means that 0,0000794% of the population endorse breaking up the US because Obama got re-elected.

Oh please, people talk about secession any time anyone in the Federal Government does anything they don't like. The talk has now lost all meaning, because everyone knows it won't happen. All this secession talk is just a bunch of butt-hurt whiners venting their frustrations and crying their tears of impotent rage while people are still paying attention to them.

I'm pretty certain that many people here would have been making secession jokes 8 or 12 years ago given the opportunity. Maybe they would have even signed such a petition to show just how pissed they are that the great evil won. I am neither surprised nor distraught really, and I really doubt anything is going to come of this.

Its so sad the US would have been divided again even if we never ad a two party system. Our founding fathers even knew this.

Gergar12:
Its so sad the US would have been divided again even if we never ad a two party system. Our founding fathers even knew this.

'Divided' is not a term reserved for armchair political-science experts who shout bloody murder every time the wind blows...yet fail to do anything further. As has been noted, this isn't going to go anywhere. The only division plainly visible is the one between Right and Left with a very close margin, next to all of it generally passive-aggressive instead of active-aggressive.

The thing is...such a narrow difference is GOOD in the long run. The extreme of either side is far too extreme to run properly. Most attacks TO either side is lace with exaggerations or even bold-faced lies, but there is likely truth in there somewhere, reason enough without all the slander, or else this conflict would not be so great in power. The extremes should play towards the middleground for the future. As global interdependence has developed, so too should political interdependence. Tie the knot instead of yanking the chain and arguing like an old married couple.

Gethsemani:

bleys2487:
I don't think you should make a joke of this. But, maybe that's just me.

I personally feel the country is very divided, dangerously divided. Your beliefs may not match theirs. That's cool. It just turns out that they have the right to be vocal, just like you. You don't like it? That's cool, but they have the right to speak up. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that they can't.

I'm kinda sick of the bashing this forum has against those who have different points of view.

The right to speak up extends both ways. These people have the right to voice their dissatisfaction with the presidential election and propose whatever shenanigans they want to remedy the situation. The rest of us have the right to call their "solutions" out on being crazy though, because that's how freedom of speech work.

Let's face it: This is a joke. People who just a few weeks ago were calling the USA the greatest country in the world and who thought democracy was the best form of government gets so upset over losing the election that they'd rather destroy their own country and forsake one of the most fundamental aspects of democracy, just because the outcome didn't favor them. So they are either massive hypocrites or people who need a crash course in "not acting like a five year old".

Wouldn't voting to rearrange the organization of government be a "fundamental aspect of democracy"?

Blablahb:
So, 25.000 people? At the 2012 population estimate of the US population of 314.768.000, if I got the math right, that means that 0,0000794% of the population endorse breaking up the US because Obama got re-elected.

This here maths is correct and relevant. Quoted for usefulness.

Basically until signatures get to a MAJORITY of the state (ONLY counting those who live in that state) it means nothing. 0.00008% (aprox) dont get to talk for anymore than 0.00008 of the population. Sillyness is silly.

lowhat:

Wouldn't voting to rearrange the organization of government be a "fundamental aspect of democracy"?

Sure is, just as abiding by the result of an election is equally fundamental. As long as the election was conducted lawfully and without interference, then the aspect of accepting the result, even if it goes against your wishes, is just as fundamental as the aspect of actually voting in the election.

Gethsemani:

bleys2487:
I don't think you should make a joke of this. But, maybe that's just me.

I personally feel the country is very divided, dangerously divided. Your beliefs may not match theirs. That's cool. It just turns out that they have the right to be vocal, just like you. You don't like it? That's cool, but they have the right to speak up. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that they can't.

I'm kinda sick of the bashing this forum has against those who have different points of view.

The right to speak up extends both ways. These people have the right to voice their dissatisfaction with the presidential election and propose whatever shenanigans they want to remedy the situation. The rest of us have the right to call their "solutions" out on being crazy though, because that's how freedom of speech work.

Let's face it: This is a joke. People who just a few weeks ago were calling the USA the greatest country in the world and who thought democracy was the best form of government gets so upset over losing the election that they'd rather destroy their own country and forsake one of the most fundamental aspects of democracy, just because the outcome didn't favor them. So they are either massive hypocrites or people who need a crash course in "not acting like a five year old".

I agree. this is just crazy.

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