The wonders of Atheism

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Hey guys, as a lot of you guys would know I'm a Christian; I've been born as a Christian and I have a feeling that I'll die as one.

What I'm trying to ask is that can any of you Atheists reading this thread explain the perspective of Atheism to me without any disrespectful comments on other beliefs such as Christianity?

Why? Because I wish to simply understand the perspective of Atheism through perspective of an Atheist, NOT an Atheist's perspective on religion.

Why? Because though understanding breeds love, which is what Jesus says in the bible, we should love their enemies, which I know it must sound weird and controlling to other people, but come on we live in a multicultural society, If you're not a Christian then you don't have to read or obey the bible, but I still recommend it to anyone at least for research.

I've seen and heard other people rant about other people's beliefs to the stage that it's all white noise to me now, trust me I've heard of pretty much every accusation that Christians and Atheists have about each other, and to be honest I'm sick of this childish behaviour, me personally I find mankind's biggest flaw is that we all tend to point out each other's flaws too much, I know this might make me sound like a hippie but "where's the LOVE man?"

So again if you can give an Atheist perspective on your Atheist life style without writing any negative comments on any religion or organisation than it would be very much appreciated.

1. It is not possible to be born Christian. You were born in a Christian family and Christianity has been forced on you since day 1. Later you may have accepted it out of your own free will or out of parents pressure, that i do not know.

Perspective of atheism is that there is no GOD, higher being, thats controlling us. We are the smiths of our own lives. we cant blame our mistakes on the devil and we cant claim that the guy is lucky because god likes him. we take people for what they are - people. not play figures of some higher being. We look for logic, reason and explanation. we seek the truth and admit when we are wrong instead of claiming the other party is wrong because "bible said so".

I would also like to point out that you are cherrypicking, because if you truly followed the bible, its doubtful you even had a computer to read this on. But thats ok. 99% of "Christians" do that. the others we label as "Extremists".

Strazdas:

I would also like to point out that you are cherrypicking, because if you truly followed the bible, its doubtful you even had a computer to read this on. But thats ok. 99% of "Christians" do that. the others we label as "Extremists".

This is one of the good points regarding the immorality of pure religion. To truly be a christian requires a belief in what I would on occasion call immoral disgusting beliefs.

1 Timothy 2:12 " I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet"

Leviticus 19:27 "You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard."

Genesis 38:9-10: "Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also."

Leviticus 19:28 "You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the Lord."

Deuteronomy 23:1 "A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord."

Deuteronomy 25:11-12. "If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity."

Exodus 21:20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

Deuteronomy 22:28 "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."

Then you have the fact that the Bible is inconsistent; that while you can try to follow large parts of the bible it is pretty much impossible to follow the whole thing due to inconsistencies, and reflects the idea that it was written over time by groups of different men with different ideas about the world.

There may be a God, but the odds that the men in the desert who wrote stories in order to try to create order, and feel less scared about the quick and constantly over looking concept of death, actually had achieved the full on truth about Religion, is amazingly small.

To me, atheism is simply about not taking things at face value. If you want to claim that there's something somewhere doing something, I'll always ask for some verifiable, falsifiable evidence that points to the existance of that "something".

I'm not an atheist because I'd be "rejecting" the idea of a deity, but simply because so far there's absolutely nothing that would speak in favor of one actually existing.

This might sound a bit douchey (not meant to, but it still might), but I see the Bible as a work of fiction that just happens to have had (and still have) a rather persistent publisher. Maybe one of those "(Vaguely) based on a true story (or a rumor)" works.

Well, as a Christian, you presumably disbelieve in all the many non-Christian religions. Atheists are just one up on you.

I would say I became an atheist out of logic, but that is not true. I simply have zero connection to religion, and zero reason to establish one. Without religion nor reason to obtain one, I am an atheist.

Although I was born Christian in name. I enjoyed the songs praising god as they were well made (at least in this country) and I did first switch after reading a long series of history books (20 books of 500 pages) that convinced me that, with hundreds of religions. None of them having any evidence to their existence. All of them are equally correct, as well as equally wrong. And its the latter that simply makes atheism the superior choice, happiness and closure based on lies or untruths tends to feel fake in the end. I want it to feel real.

Pretty much the same as a religious lifestyle except moral decisions are entirely based your own moral framework rather than a mixture of that plus a moral framework decided on by a religious bureaucracy. That and you don't have to go to any religious observances.

BangSmashBoom:

So again if you can give an Atheist perspective on your Atheist life style without writing any negative comments on any religion or organisation than it would be very much appreciated.

Apart from the time I spend reading this forum, I don't think about God or atheism. When you are an atheist you are only thinking about religion, or your own lack of it, when it's thrown into your face.

I wouldn't call it a lifestyle. For something to be a lifestyle you would have to do something instead of NOT doing something.

OP asking for information without being insulted is completely impossible here unfortunately.

Friendly Lich:
OP asking for information without being insulted is completely impossible here unfortunately.

That depends how stupid the OP is.

In this guys case the OP is fine, so your warning, while we're all thankful to get it, could probably be ignored for this thread. Making your post somewhat pointless. Darn! I suggest at least putting a point forward next time that's relevant to the OP, that way this embarrassing situation where your post is made redundant won't happen again.

OP. I don't really think I could describe an atheist lifestyle to you, for me anyway it's just going about my day. God/gods/religion don't really enter into it at all honestly.

Strazdas:
1. It is not possible to be born Christian. You were born in a Christian family and Christianity has been forced on you since day 1. Later you may have accepted it out of your own free will or out of parents pressure, that i do not know.

Perspective of atheism is that there is no GOD, higher being, thats controlling us.

Yes that is a accurate description of Atheism.....

We look for logic, reason and explanation. we seek the truth and admit when we are wrong instead of claiming the other party is wrong because "bible said so".

....but this is not. Being atheist doesn't mean an you of the things you described. Also nice strawman of all of Christianity.

Friendly Lich:
OP asking for information without being insulted is completely impossible here unfortunately.

Especially when discussing religion. Just look at the first reply.
I wouldn't call myself an atheist per say, because doing that still involves caring about religion, thinking about it, and taking it seriously. Personally, I've given up on religious belief (Whether belief in something or nothing) all together. I guess you could call me a non-theist if you really are that desperate. However, from what I understand, Atheist is simply the belief that there are no gods, no higher powers controlling us, or any of those things. They are people who believe that religion is wrong - that is, incorrect.

Of course that's just a plain, direct, and somewhat dictionary definition of the term. Other people will have more 'personal' definition of what Atheist is, and what it means to them.

Well, while your attempt is admirable, I think it already starts off with a false assumption: That there is something specific that defines Atheists and our lifestyles. Sure, you may find that some Atheists have a lot in common (typically along the lines of Skepticism, Naturalism, Secular Humanism), but in the end it's nothing but the rejection of god claims. People do that for all sorts of reasons, rational and irrational. The "angry Atheist", the guy who denounces god and religion because of a personal tragedy, that guy does exist, it's just that they are very rare. The "hocus-pocus Atheist", the guy who believes in ghosts, ley lines, UFO sightings, the magical properties of crystals, horoscopes and so on, that guy also exists. I don't identify with either of those two (or a number of other "kinds" of Atheists), yet they are Atheists, too. Bill Maher, one of the most outspoken, public Atheist celebrities, is also an anti-vaccer, an anti-science, anti-medicine idiot. I certainly don't identify with him. So you see that merely being an Atheist doesn't mean much.

Anyway, as for my personal perspective? I doubt my "lifestyle" is that much different from yours. I don't go to church unless a) it's a family matter or b) I'm on vacation and want to see the architecture. I don't pray. But other than that? I doubt my day-to-day life is that different.
For me, it's mostly about an ideal, trying to hold a view of the world that's as close as to objective reality as possible, because only then can we hope to be able to deal with the challenges that world presents us with. This requires Skepticism and an application of consistent standards of evidence. And, when I apply those standards, to me as an outsider there's no reason to consider your religion being true to be any more likely than any other religion. In fact, since every time the supernatural has been properly investigated, it turned out to actually have a natural explanation, I consider none of the religions being true the most likely option.
And that's what it's really about: Probability. When Theists ask me, whether gods are possible, I have to admit that, yes, they are. But that doesn't say much because technically everything is possible, including Matrix-style simulation hypotheticals or outright Solipsim. In that sense, gods being merely possible doesn't help.

Atheism is non-belief in gods. There are many types of atheism. Even atheistic religions.

My particular type of atheism centers around the assumption that the things affecting our reality are the only things we need to be concerned about. And that observation, measurement and testing through a knowledge-based approach is the only way to find out what those things are. If proof cannot be found to support a claim, then it is either nonexistent or irrelevant.

BangSmashBoom:
I've seen and heard other people rant about other people's beliefs to the stage that it's all white noise to me now, trust me I've heard of pretty much every accusation that Christians and Atheists have about each other, and to be honest I'm sick of this childish behaviour, me personally I find mankind's biggest flaw is that we all tend to point out each other's flaws too much, I know this might make me sound like a hippie but "where's the LOVE man?"

So again if you can give an Atheist perspective on your Atheist life style without writing any negative comments on any religion or organisation than it would be very much appreciated.

Atheism is a small detail regarding the answer to a question considered very important by others. It does not really constitute a lifestyle or a perspective. Your prompt is a bit like asking about non-kosher cuisine: atheism is defined by what it is not.

Many atheists have embraced empiricism as a perspective. They see the successes of science with its methodological naturalism and evidence-based approaches in all number of academic fields and apply the same sort of reasoning to theological questions. There is no reason that I can see that they should not do that. What distinguishes the atheist is that he comes to different conclusions than the people who call themselves theologians.

As far as my lifestyle, I doubt it is much different from an archetypal Christian's aside from not attending a church. Though I like hedonism as a philosophy, I'm hardly someone you'd call a hedonist; I drink something alcoholic maybe once a year and I haven't yet been drunk. I support the legalization of all drugs, yet the most I've experienced personally as far as such substances is going under for surgery or taking Vicodin for one medical problem or another. My sexual morality is somewhat relaxed and permissive, I suppose. But that's hardly something that distinguishes atheism...

Oh, but on that subject I can tell you the following. Ignore what some mothers tell their children: it doesn't make you go blind. I have thoroughly tested this.

First off, who are you? I say this only because of the fact that you said that many of us may know something about you, when you have 52 posts... not a big deal, just something that slightly bothers me.

Anyway, I agree with Skeleon, the premise that there is some sort of Atheist lifestyle is erroneous. We are not actually all that different, except for the fact that we don't believe in a higher power or being. Its not like we bath in the blood of the innocent, or have weekly get-togethers to have a massive bacchanalian orgies complete with chocolate fountains. Sure, we don't pray, and we don't go to church, but all in all, we strive to be good people as defined by the social practices of our respective societies.

BangSmashBoom:

So again if you can give an Atheist perspective on your Atheist life style without writing any negative comments on any religion or organisation than it would be very much appreciated.

What's to say, i'm an agnostic atheist and just live my life. I follow a pretty standard moral code which consists of "Don't do to others what you wouldn't like to be done to you". (Well, ideally...)
I don't act morally because i fear hell or because a man who lived millenia ago said i should, i just do it because i don't want to be a prick and because i believe in leading by example (if i act like a dick people are justified to be a dick towards me and complaining about bad behavior would make me a hypocrite)

An atheists perspective on what? The only time an atheists perspective will be coloured by his atheism will be when a religious person would attribute something to "God" then we would search for the actual answer or the most logical explanation if a definite answer cannot be found. But other than that an atheists perspecitve on most things will be their individual perspective, not some collective thing dictated by a set of rules for atheists.

Atheism has no life style. Atheism itself describes a view towards religion. In an atheist's case, they think all religions are false. Given this, they don't have to live by any code of conduct and can just live their lives however they see fit. I've seen people who live by looking out for themselves in whatever way possible, and I've seen atheists who follow Christian virtues without believing in the bible.

So really, there may not be a consensus on it. It can vary.

Atheism is taking an absolute either - or position on metaphysics, based on an epistemological impossibility. Those who subscribe to the notion of "Atheism" subsequently tend to proselytize in the name of Truth.

Although Atheists will generally argue "it's no religion, because [we] don't believe in a God, LoL!", although the similarities are remarkable. The different "denominations" who argue and bicker on the correct use of the essentially contested concept of "atheism". Or the emergence of what can be understood as a clergy (Hitchens, Dawkins, etc.).

Basically, if you hear someone talk on the subject of atheism for more than five minutes, her or she is likely a titamaboob, a twat, a prick, a tit, someone you wouldn't want at a party, basically.

Helmholtz Watson:

....but this is not. Being atheist doesn't mean an you of the things you described. Also nice strawman of all of Christianity.

It does to many people i know. it may be personally biased, but thats what it is to me. and thanks, i try.

BangSmashBoom:
Hey guys, as a lot of you guys would know I'm a Christian; I've been born as a Christian and I have a feeling that I'll die as one.

What I'm trying to ask is that can any of you Atheists reading this thread explain the perspective of Atheism to me without any disrespectful comments on other beliefs such as Christianity?

Why? Because I wish to simply understand the perspective of Atheism through perspective of an Atheist, NOT an Atheist's perspective on religion.

Why? Because though understanding breeds love, which is what Jesus says in the bible, we should love their enemies, which I know it must sound weird and controlling to other people, but come on we live in a multicultural society, If you're not a Christian then you don't have to read or obey the bible, but I still recommend it to anyone at least for research.

I've seen and heard other people rant about other people's beliefs to the stage that it's all white noise to me now, trust me I've heard of pretty much every accusation that Christians and Atheists have about each other, and to be honest I'm sick of this childish behaviour, me personally I find mankind's biggest flaw is that we all tend to point out each other's flaws too much, I know this might make me sound like a hippie but "where's the LOVE man?"

So again if you can give an Atheist perspective on your Atheist life style without writing any negative comments on any religion or organisation than it would be very much appreciated.

You're talking about atheism like it's a worldview comparable to a religion. It isn't. It's a statement on gods, and that's about it. It's a statement about what people don't believe. Beyond that, you'd need to ask an individual atheist about the things they do believe - and beyond that, atheists can and do believe in a variety of things, as they please. Their reasons for doing so may be good or bad.

A lot of atheists are left-wing rationalist skeptics, but not all. There is no requirement to be so, it's just somewhat common and topical right now.

Atheism is lack of belief in a god/deity/divine being/whatever you want to call it. That's it. It has nothing to do with evolution, or anti-theism, or science, or anything like that.

BangSmashBoom:

So again if you can give an Atheist perspective on your Atheist life style without writing any negative comments on any religion or organisation than it would be very much appreciated.

Hey there,

I can see your good intentions, but to an extent what you're asking is like saying "explain why you are a vegan, without saying any negative things about meat or farming". It's just not possible. Atheism is defined as a lack of faith, it's essentially a reactionary position and so the only really defining feature is a lack of religiosity - and since we live in a world that's still more-or-less religious majority, a lot of atheists will have arrived at that faithlessness through a rejection, opposition or disinterest to religion. Basically, if religion didn't exist, neither would atheists. We'd just be called "regular people".

So to answer your main question, an atheist's perspective on life and atheism itself is incredibly open - "we" don't have a singular view on life or atheism as "we" aren't an organised group or philosophy (despite what some people will have you believe, as one particular post in this thread shows).

Some atheists have come to reject religion as it conflicts with what they know of science, and the scientific principle that you don't take something as fact unless its been satisfactorily proved - and personally, that is what made me an atheist, together with my general upbringing (I believe that if I had been raised religious, I would have rejected it by now, but naturally that's unproveable). But not all atheists are skeptics, rationalists, or know the first thing about science.

Basically, OP, think about your own views towards other religions. Some you might be quite fiercely opposed to because of the associated culture or the things that have been done in in its name. Some you might find kind of "weird" and almost comical. Other religions, you might find to be quite cool and exotic, and hey, the practitioners all seem to be really deep, chilled individuals; and on some level you might wish that was something you could share in, but you know on a gut level that it's just not true and not for you. As an atheist, those are roughly the mix of feelings I have towards all religions - Christianity included.

Hope this helps a bit.

BangSmashBoom:
Hey guys, as a lot of you guys would know I'm a Christian; I've been born as a Christian and I have a feeling that I'll die as one.

What I'm trying to ask is that can any of you Atheists reading this thread explain the perspective of Atheism to me without any disrespectful comments on other beliefs such as Christianity?

Why? Because I wish to simply understand the perspective of Atheism through perspective of an Atheist, NOT an Atheist's perspective on religion.

Why? Because though understanding breeds love, which is what Jesus says in the bible, we should love their enemies, which I know it must sound weird and controlling to other people, but come on we live in a multicultural society, If you're not a Christian then you don't have to read or obey the bible, but I still recommend it to anyone at least for research.

I've seen and heard other people rant about other people's beliefs to the stage that it's all white noise to me now, trust me I've heard of pretty much every accusation that Christians and Atheists have about each other, and to be honest I'm sick of this childish behaviour, me personally I find mankind's biggest flaw is that we all tend to point out each other's flaws too much, I know this might make me sound like a hippie but "where's the LOVE man?"

So again if you can give an Atheist perspective on your Atheist life style without writing any negative comments on any religion or organisation than it would be very much appreciated.

I'm going to try to in all honesty address this question with the full good faith assumption that you are trying to further your understanding of this subject aren't here to do harm in some fashion or another. If it's your wish to educate yourself that can only really be seen as a a good thing.

That said, I do believe your ignorance on the subject is causing you to ask a question that is a bit.. awkward. You are asking us to explain the 'beliefs' of Atheism without referencing them against religion. Such a thing is not really possible. Atheism isn't a belief system. Atheists may believe in various things, and atheists may agree often on what they believe in, but there are no 'atheist' beliefs.

Asking us to explain atheism to you without referencing religion is like explaining the concept of the number 'zero' or 'nothingness' without referencing other numbers or matter. I suppose it is possible, but I do not know of many that are up to the monumental linguistic task it would entail.

Atheism is merely the lack of belief in god. It's fundamentally and semantically both different than a belief 'against' god, in the same way that 'nothing' is fundamentally and semantically different than 'negative'. It is an absence of belief.

To explain how that might contrast with a theist, one has to examine theism and why people believe in theism, then explore why these explanations are insufficient to atheists. Otherwise there is not really anything there to really discuss.

I could explain mathematics, statistics, scientific theory and so on and so forth to you. But these aren't 'atheistic' beliefs. They're merely alternatives to theistic beliefs. Yes, many atheists hold these beliefs for various reasons. But so do many theists, for various other reasons. Often they are the same reasons!

Does that, perchance make some people believe in mutually exclusive things, and therefor mean that people have logically invalid beliefs? Yes! But that is how it is.

2+2=4 isn't an 'atheist' belief, for the same reason that 2+2=4 isn't a 'christian' belief. Again, atheism is a lack of a belief, not its own belief system.

Addition: I will say one thing though: If you are in earnest in earning our 'love', or at least showing us your own, don't call us your enemy. There's something about saying that your purpose here is to learn about how to love your 'enemy' that is instantly going to set people against you. You might consider choosing your words a bit better.

I think one of the important things about atheists or at least atheists such as myself, is that we regard the question 'Is there a God?' as being of similar importance to the question 'Is this the matrix?'. Neither is answerable, both have very profound implications if the answer is 'yes', but at the same time, neither directly impacts day-to-day life. I tend to ignore such questions on the grounds that there are equally interesting questions to which answers can be found, such as 'how are stars made?'.

Now, I can see how this is upsetting for a theist, as religion is very important to them. But really, this is why attempts to say that atheism is a religion are flawed, because unlike the religious, we really don't care.

BangSmashBoom:
SNIP

People already flamed religion. Nice. Heres a REAL answer to what you want.

The only thing an atheist has in common with another atheist is their atheism as a given. It has NO tennets or rules or over arching foundation other than "I disbelief in god/gods".

With that said im going to be nice and post to you something i wrote a long time ago. I decided to write how i felt about my life and read it often to remind myself who i am and to give me identity. Here it is.

EDIT:

I hope this does increase the amount of understanding between us. Im sorry for the aggressive nature of my peers. The great thing about atheism is tying me in with them is harder than it is with religions. We have almost nothing in common as a given. Please do not think poorly of atheists because of the behavior of a few. Im happy you were nice enough to take an interest in our world view.

Friendly Lich:
OP asking for information without being insulted is completely impossible here unfortunately.

Words can't describe how right you are.

Spinozaad:
Atheism is taking an absolute either - or position on metaphysics, based on an epistemological impossibility. Those who subscribe to the notion of "Atheism" subsequently tend to proselytize in the name of Truth.

Although Atheists will generally argue "it's no religion, because [we] don't believe in a God, LoL!", although the similarities are remarkable. The different "denominations" who argue and bicker on the correct use of the essentially contested concept of "atheism". Or the emergence of what can be understood as a clergy (Hitchens, Dawkins, etc.).

Wait, are you being serious?

The problem with talking about Atheism without religion is that there is no Church of Atheism, no doctrine, no universal beliefs other then "god does not exist" so there is really nothing to say without the context of other religions.

Quaxar:

Spinozaad:
Atheism is taking an absolute either - or position on metaphysics, based on an epistemological impossibility. Those who subscribe to the notion of "Atheism" subsequently tend to proselytize in the name of Truth.

Although Atheists will generally argue "it's no religion, because [we] don't believe in a God, LoL!", although the similarities are remarkable. The different "denominations" who argue and bicker on the correct use of the essentially contested concept of "atheism". Or the emergence of what can be understood as a clergy (Hitchens, Dawkins, etc.).

Wait, are you being serious?

If you're one of those people who bicker on the definition of "atheism" (strong atheism, weak atheism, etc.), like to cite or read Dawkins, etc...

Then yes.

Spinozaad:

If you're one of those people who bicker on the definition of "atheism" (strong atheism, weak atheism, etc.), like to cite or read Dawkins, etc...

Then yes.

Theres no need to argue. Im an agnostic atheist and i dont care how others seek to use said label or define themselves because i know what it is and its definition doesnt change who i am. I do not say god cannot exist or does not. I simply contend that i cannot know he does and i will live my life assuming he does not, much like you do for Khaine the bloody handed lord of murder. There is no faith here. No church. And i subscribe to no "leaders" of atheist. 3/4 of my idols are religious and Bill Nye doesnt get in just for being an atheist. I never understood WHY other atheists flock to "promenant skeptics" just for being skeptics. I mean yeah they are atheists but what else? While they might be great debators that doesnt make them noteworthy in my book. The greatest thinkers of the age become my idols regardless of religion and their views therein. Niel Degrasse, Bill Nye, Normal Borloug and Carl Sagan are my heros. There is most certainly not a church of atheism. Not one im part of at any rate.

That said im not willing to discuss either on the existence of the deism with no rules or physical interaction with the world. Youre the user who agrees its pointless to debate such a being scientifically yes? I agree. It cannot be discussed. However individual gods for certain religions have demands, personalities and a definite presence here on earth according to their law. They have physically appeared or done things and have feelings and that makes them fair game for empirical evidence. Im willing to argue the existence of a being who flooded the world. Im not willing to argue the existence of an intelligent presence that may or may not exist. As a materialist i agree with your stance that it simply cannot be done.

Spinozaad:
If you're one of those people who bicker on the definition of "atheism" (strong atheism, weak atheism, etc.), like to cite or read Dawkins, etc...

Then yes.

Atheism is taking an absolute either - or position on metaphysics, based on an epistemological impossibility. Those who subscribe to the notion of "Atheism" subsequently tend to proselytize in the name of Truth.

Just because we don't want to be strawmanned ("Atheists claim certainty that no gods exist!") and argue against such nonsense doesn't make us religious. You'd do the same if I made ridiculous claims about, say, your political position or what have you.

Spinozaad:
That's where any discussion on religion ought to end.

I never understood this sentiment. That's where the discussion should start. With questions like "why?". "Why do you believe this, why don't you believe this?". Because those - among others - are the interesting bits.

The very fact that this fine forum/craphole of the internet consists of self-proclaimed atheist assholes ripping on a strawman version of "religion" is indicative of the "unenlightened" behaviour many here proclaim to detest. This might not refer to you specifically, but in general... A lot of the "atheists" here are as bad as the strawman religious folk they detest.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... Sure, showing the same behaviour of the Other you detest doesn't technically make you the Other, but it still makes you look like a dick. To me, dickishness is the overriding category.

And this sentiment I understand even less. Why do people keep complaining about this subforum? You must realize by now that a lot of us enjoy it here despite some of the crap. You're not going to change anybody's mind like this, even less so by insulting them. Worse still, how can you try and claim any high ground in this, if you descend into name-calling?

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