How religion is becoming like the dodo

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veloper:
In the western nations it's the usually the religious conservatives who make the greatest effort keeping the average number of children per couple above the critical number of 2.

True, however, their group is caving under the relentless assault of... brains.

I myself used to be in a group as religious retarded as possibly possible (reformists) and you have no idea how many people either leave that religion or start taking it much more freely or less seriously. The more extremist something gets, the more hypocrisy and problems it harbours, which lead people to be dissatisfied.

For example I know a girl who was forbidden to speak to men in the family without being spoken to. If you saw her today you wouldn't be able to tell that anymore, except she still regards sex before marriage as bad, and will end up marrying someone from the same geographical area and most of the views. So despite her upbringing being 'call child protection services!'-type of bad, she distanced herself from that.

Same story for many others, and ussually the more brains they have, the further they go from the views they were raised with. I've heard literally everything between "I don't know, I just don't like it" and hours long debates as reason for that.

Blablahb:

veloper:
In the western nations it's the usually the religious conservatives who make the greatest effort keeping the average number of children per couple above the critical number of 2.

True, however, their group is caving under the relentless assault of... brains.

I myself used to be in a group as religious retarded as possibly possible (reformists) and you have no idea how many people either leave that religion or start taking it much more freely or less seriously. The more extremist something gets, the more hypocrisy and problems it harbours, which lead people to be dissatisfied.

For example I know a girl who was forbidden to speak to men in the family without being spoken to. If you saw her today you wouldn't be able to tell that anymore, except she still regards sex before marriage as bad, and will end up marrying someone from the same geographical area and most of the views. So despite her upbringing being 'call child protection services!'-type of bad, she distanced herself from that.

Same story for many others, and ussually the more brains they have, the further they go from the views they were raised with. I've heard literally everything between "I don't know, I just don't like it" and hours long debates as reason for that.

There is that ofcourse. Many children do break with their religious upbringing, but still I wouldn't underestimate the resilience of the fundamentalist christian communities.
Suppose 4 out of 8 children break away, that's still a big contribution to growth. Now it could be too anecdotal, but of the non-religious couples that I know, it's always just one or two kids.

Then there's the catholics ofcourse and the muslim immigrants, doing their part to propagate various socially conservative ideas imparted on their children.

The question then is which proces will go faster: children losing their parents' faith, or the offspring of the non-religious going extinct.

Religion in the west is "dead" in a sense, they no longer hold the same values and they are no longer as organised as they once was many years ago. In the west at least, religion is "dying". The rise of scientific values in society and politics as well the move towards secularism is slowly but surely making religion useless, making it more sentimental and traditional rather than actual belief.

Knowledge and understanding will perhaps not kill off religion, but in the future I imagine it will exist as something of an oddity from an earlier and more unenlightened age where a few who will not accept the nature of reality still practicing it.
We have flat Earth advocates in this day of age. That there will be religious people when we have research facilities on Mars and have traveled beyond our solar system is not so strange given human nature. But it won't be any more true then than it is now.

I disagree, religion will always be here in some form or fashion. I think science, well not science really but a rather specific materialistic perspective, has replaced the power religion once had. Which isn't the say that religion has lost its power. Both will no doubt continue to be around for a while.

mad825:

Religion in the west is "dead" in a sense, they no longer hold the same values and they are no longer as organised as they once was many years ago. In the west at least, religion is "dying". The rise of scientific values in society and politics as well the move towards secularism is slowly but surely making religion useless, making it more sentimental and traditional rather than actual belief.

One ought to be careful when reading Nietzsche, for he is not arguing that religion is dead. When he claims "God is dead", he is referring to God as no longer being the sole proprietor and enforcer of values. We are essentially left alone to create and enforce our own values, to make our own lives ourselves a "work of art". I doubt Nietzsche would be very supportive of science or anything else taking over that dogmatic position in our stead.

I will not go into an excruciating polemic about why using Science as a source of values (an ideology), rather than a practice is a dangerous misuse and misunderstanding of Science (for that would require more than a mere forum post could provide); however, I will outline the main point. While science is an essential part of our understanding of the world, and therefore a necessary supplement to figuring out how we should live, it is not a source for values in itself. The moment one treats Science as an ideology is the moment one falls into bad science and bad philosophy - scientism.

Shadowstar38:

CpT_x_Killsteal:

1. No "souls" have been found

That sounds inconclusive. Like, it could be there, but we don't know how to find it if it exists. Religion at the very least provides a definative answer. And most have what they believe to be a valid basis for that answer.

Yes, at least religious people are more positive about their answers. Scientists have the fatal disadvantage of having to be honest with themselves and others.

FalloutJack:

lawrie001:
SNIP

I'm sorry, but let's think realistically here. If human beings ever lose the ability to believe in something greater than themselves, to pursue the idea of a purpose to exist and a state of being in the infinite, the species will stagnate and die. Okay, Atheists don't believe in god, but then Atheists still have something else to occupy their minds, right? Perhaps completely into sciences? I don't know, myself. But basically, not everyone's meant for that. That's why some blokes think they're a god and some blokes don't care. If we all go the same way, WE'LL be the dodo, because first spiritualism will go, then imagination, then caring about the next meal.

Spiritualism would stem from imagination, not the other way around. You may also have one without the other. For example, you can imagine something without believing it exists.

Shadowstar38:

Indecipherable:

Religion deserves the bashing it gets. It is false and hurtful all throughout history and needs to be shown as such. If people are upset that their religion is bashed, it is because they are playing the hurt feelings card simply because they lack a logical defence card.

Religion has, does and will persist in immense harm. From the subjugation of women, the epic book banning and demonisation of science (and almost all knowledge, in fact), to the wickedness inflicted upon Africa (missionaries spreading Catholicism and then saying that contraception = abortion = murder), to the present evil of Islamic teachings that Apostasy = death.

We need to stand up against this. You can't play the hurt feelings card if your God is a spiteful, wicked evil being whose followers suppress and injure others.

Every time I see a post like this it feels like it's breeding the same kind of ignorance that you yourselves accuse religion of. How is what you're doing any different than 2 sects if islam fussing over small details. You're guilty of lacking tolerance.

You think it's false? Well, as said time and time again on these forums, nothing can be proven or disproven, so that might as well not come up as an argument either way. It's also no more harmful than groups of people with political ideologies.

You know what's a better use of the anger you have towards religion? Condemning the individual acts of stupid humans and not labeling the entire institution as harmful.

Two sects fussing over small details isn't ignorance or intolerance, it's just arguing. There's levels of intolerance that are acceptable, you don't have to tolerate an idea.

Shadowstar38:

CpT_x_Killsteal:

1. No "souls" have been found

That sounds inconclusive. Like, it could be there, but we don't know how to find it if it exists. Religion at the very least provides a definative answer. And most have what they believe to be a valid basis for that answer.

It's inconclusive the same way that I'd say it's inconclusive you used magic to cause the Holocaust in the past.

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