How is a Jew a race now days?

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I see often now days, people describe Jews of modern day Israel as a race. But how are they a race?
Most of them migrated there from post WW2.

So how is Jew a race?
I thought it was a religion. Calling it a race, is like calling a Christian and Muslim a race.

The term is used both for the ethnic group and the race. Also, IIRC, the ethnicity is often defined differently to the way most ethnicities are defined.

IMHO, that's needlessly confusing.

Now, if you mean modern Israeli as a race, that's very strange, but the idea of people being ethnically Jewish is hardly an unusual one.

Race is a social construct, not a biological one. A race is whatever we want it to be.

From a biological standpoint the genetic differences between humans is so small that 'race' as we know it does not actually exist. You cannot tell what 'race' someone belongs to by looking at their genetics. It is possible to narrow it down, as certain populations are more likely to have certain genetic traits and by combining enough of these traits you can get to a point where the chances are they belong to a certain 'race', but it is not 100%.

The Iron Ruler is the only Jew on this forum. Might want to ask him.

I dont think we differenciate between the religion and the people, because you have to be one to be the other. And I just plain forgot the difference between ethnicity and race.

You generally become a Jew by being born into the religion, which means members tend to marry other members, and the population becomes very slightly different from the general population. Several genetic disorders are more prevalent amongst certain Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_genetics_of_Jews#Tay.E2.80.93Sachs_disease

Anyway, you have to be born into Judaism to join (generally), whereas for Christianity/Islam you don't.

Shadowstar38:
The Iron Ruler is the only Jew on this forum. Might want to ask him.

I dont think we differenciate between the religion and the people, because you have to be one to be the other. And I just plain forgot the difference between ethnicity and race.

.
I don't think I'm the only Jew here, but thanks for the mention.

You can be a Jew, but more often than not you're born a Jew. Judaism isn't as easy getting into as some other religions are - its not a missionary religion. However if you do get into the religion of Judaism from the outside, you can be considered as being a Jew in the race sense of the word. Fact is, we have white Jews from Europe, tanned Jews from N. Africa, the caucus, Asia, we have black Jews from Africa... Now you can look at that and say - "How the hell can a black man and a white man be of the same race?". It's because they're Jews. We can see the lineage of these communities as an extensions of the 12 tribes of Israel or other means (such as forced immigration, or Solomon convincing the Queen of Shiba and her entourage to convert and become Jews themselves). Back then, becoming a Jew wasn't that much of an issue - you would willingly follow the laws of god, if you're a man you cut off a piece of your d*ck, and you get your Jewish baptism. Nowadays the race of Jews has many similarities between each 'sub-group', and that collection of sub-groups can be called a race. The fact of the matter is that these people have kept their identity intact, separate from other groups for many hundreds of years, and as a result we can identify as the descendants of the original Jews who dwelt in the old kingdoms down there in the holy land.

pyrate:
Race is a social construct, not a biological one. A race is whatever we want it to be.

From a biological standpoint the genetic differences between humans is so small that 'race' as we know it does not actually exist. You cannot tell what 'race' someone belongs to by looking at their genetics. It is possible to narrow it down, as certain populations are more likely to have certain genetic traits and by combining enough of these traits you can get to a point where the chances are they belong to a certain 'race', but it is not 100%.

Well, genetics plays a part in it. "Races" tend to have certain genetic and physical traits that can be traceable and measured. Even beyond skin tones, height, hairiness and other such factors can be shown on average to be different in certain "peoples" more than others. Say, A Scandinavian person is more likely to have a larger amount of hair on their bodies than someone who's ancestors lived in Persia. It is partially a social construct, drawing lines between peoples, particular those who's families lived on the borders between nations and the "ethic groups" mixed, or the mixing of genes from people that historically travelled rather than settling down (such as the Mongols, who were so willing to bang the locals that 8% of Asia can track their genes just to Genghis Khan) or groups that lived in extreme isolation and tended to have closed nit communities, hostile to outsiders. Should we count the Hasburgs their own race, just because the rampant incest has given their genes very distinct (and horrible) genetics shared by almost no one not in the family (or doesn't regularly marry their cousin).

Now, personally I never liked calling Jews a "race," since A. the land the claimed as there is quite literally the single most conquered, occupied, and claim piece of land on the planet and B. I am willing to bet many "old Jewish families" were at some point or another conversions and their ancestors never had stepped a foot into the promised lands in all of recorded history.

I am watching Law and Order on right now.
Episode called " Hate " S9/EP10 1999

Well in this episode you have a white supremacist guy that attacks white jews in name of white racial dominance.

can somebody explain that to me.

Grandcrusader:

So how is Jew a race?

They're not. They never were.

"Race," as its commonly understood, is an outdated concept based on bad 'science' with no connection to reality and no practical use.

Grandcrusader:
can somebody explain that to me.

Ummm... Did you just ask us to explain why racist people are racist? o.O

I could suppose quite a few reasons which would be disparaging of the racist in question, but if you really want to know why someone hates, ask them. Just be prepared to take everything they tell you with a ton of salt.

Grandcrusader:
I see often now days, people describe Jews of modern day Israel as a race. But how are they a race?
Most of them migrated there from post WW2.

So how is Jew a race?
I thought it was a religion. Calling it a race, is like calling a Christian and Muslim a race.

They are not so much a race but as a religion.

At least that's how the US describes it.

For example, black is a race.

Hispanic is an ethnicity.

So anything that crosses skin colors is an ethnicity. Since Hispanics are not restricted by skin color, just where you can trace your genetics to.

So Jews may be an ethnicity, but not a race. It depends on context and whether you mean religion or not.

Grandcrusader:
I am watching Law and Order on right now.
Episode called " Hate " S9/EP10 1999

Well in this episode you have a white supremacist guy that attacks white jews in name of white racial dominance.

can somebody explain that to me.

Cause it's fun, it validates his existence and gives him a reason to attack people? Those are the usual reasons.

TheIronRuler:
Fact is, we have white Jews from Europe, tanned Jews from N. Africa, the caucus, Asia, we have black Jews from Africa... Now you can look at that and say - "How the hell can a black man and a white man be of the same race?". It's because they're Jews.

But they're not racially the same, are they? They share a religion and maybe a culture, but they're not racially identical. That would be like saying my friend's girlfriend is, literally, a man because she comes to the pub with us and acts like "one of the lads".

Grandcrusader:
I am watching Law and Order on right now.
Episode called " Hate " S9/EP10 1999

Well in this episode you have a white supremacist guy that attacks white jews in name of white racial dominance.

can somebody explain that to me.

Hmm? Do you mean that since it's possible to discriminate against Jews, and this is usually called racism, that Jews are a race?

That's rather circular reasoning.

Grandcrusader:
Well in this episode you have a white supremacist guy that attacks white jews in name of white racial dominance.

can somebody explain that to me.

Well, white supremacists generally don't like Jews. Simple explanation! They think that Jews are conspiring to keep whitey down, forcing such things and multiculturalism or the "homosexual agenda" so that the white man doesn't rise up and take the world back from the Jews and their servants, black guys.

Of course, some of them think Jews are aliens or lizards, so I guess they want white people to be dominant over reptiles or something.

TheIronRuler:

Shadowstar38:
The Iron Ruler is the only Jew on this forum. Might want to ask him.

I dont think we differenciate between the religion and the people, because you have to be one to be the other. And I just plain forgot the difference between ethnicity and race.

.
I don't think I'm the only Jew here, but thanks for the mention.

I think that Ravenshrike guy is Jewish too, but maybe I'm confusing him with someone else.

Not G. Ivingname:

pyrate:
Race is a social construct, not a biological one. A race is whatever we want it to be.

From a biological standpoint the genetic differences between humans is so small that 'race' as we know it does not actually exist. You cannot tell what 'race' someone belongs to by looking at their genetics. It is possible to narrow it down, as certain populations are more likely to have certain genetic traits and by combining enough of these traits you can get to a point where the chances are they belong to a certain 'race', but it is not 100%.

Well, genetics plays a part in it. "Races" tend to have certain genetic and physical traits that can be traceable and measured. Even beyond skin tones, height, hairiness and other such factors can be shown on average to be different in certain "peoples" more than others. Say, A Scandinavian person is more likely to have a larger amount of hair on their bodies than someone who's ancestors lived in Persia.

There is no single gene that people have because of 'race' though. The diversity in human genetics is next to none compared to the genetics of other creatures. We generally begin to group animals into sub-species when they have a Fixation Index (measurement of genetic difference) of 25-35%. Humans have an Fst of 10-15%. The genetics that determine our exterior appearance only makes up ~0.1% of our genetic code, yet this is what we typically use to determine race.

As for classifying Jews, I think they are a religion and culture. You can be a Jew without following Judaism and you can be a Jew without being born to Jewish parents. It is similar in how many people are culturally Christian without following Christianity.

SonicWaffle:
Of course, some of them think Jews are aliens or lizards, so I guess they want white people to be dominant over reptiles or something.

Yeah, weird that, it seems to be common amongst racists to believe the space lizards are out to get them.

thaluikhain:

SonicWaffle:
Of course, some of them think Jews are aliens or lizards, so I guess they want white people to be dominant over reptiles or something.

Yeah, weird that, it seems to be common amongst racists to believe the space lizards are out to get them.

Perhaps, contrary to everything we've been taught, racists are the most intelligent among us and the only ones capable of understanding the Jew Agenda for what it is. Maybe one day we'll be in the camps, forced to mine for gold and bake endless bagels, and we'll rue this day.

"If only we'd listened!", we shall cry, "why didn't we pay attention to all those pictures of Jewish people with yellow eyes and reptilian features? Oh, how foolish we were to claim they all looked photoshopped when clearly they were lizards all along!"

pyrate:
The genetics that determine our exterior appearance only makes up ~0.1% of our genetic code, yet this is what we typically use to determine race.

Plus if Race were genetically based you'd expect the genes that give the physical criteria for various races to be uniform across people of that race... only they're not. Bit hard to argue that, for example, 'black' is a race if there are 12 or so different genes that express as 'black' skin.

SonicWaffle:
the Jew Agenda

Pfffffft... the Jews are just a front for the Amish.

RhombusHatesYou:

SonicWaffle:
the Jew Agenda

Pfffffft... the Jews are just a front for the Amish.

Who in turn are a cover story to conceal the Mormons.

SonicWaffle:

thaluikhain:

SonicWaffle:
Of course, some of them think Jews are aliens or lizards, so I guess they want white people to be dominant over reptiles or something.

Yeah, weird that, it seems to be common amongst racists to believe the space lizards are out to get them.

Perhaps, contrary to everything we've been taught, racists are the most intelligent among us and the only ones capable of understanding the Jew Agenda for what it is. Maybe one day we'll be in the camps, forced to mine for gold and bake endless bagels, and we'll rue this day.

"If only we'd listened!", we shall cry, "why didn't we pay attention to all those pictures of Jewish people with yellow eyes and reptilian features? Oh, how foolish we were to claim they all looked photoshopped when clearly they were lizards all along!"

Not just the jews, though, it seems common amongst racists, whatever their views on other things and whoever they hate, to claim the people they hate are in league with the space lizards and spreading the homosexual agenda.

The Jewish people have been running their own unofficial selective breeding program for millennia. As a result, there is a relatively clear genetic demarcation between them and other groups (although in recent years the line is getting more blurry as traditional marriage customs are relaxed).

The difference is NOT large enough to truly classify descendants of the Jewish ethnic group as a separate race, but the same is true for every other ethnic group in the world, and obviously, racists don't give a damn about that particular distinction.

thaluikhain:

SonicWaffle:

thaluikhain:

Yeah, weird that, it seems to be common amongst racists to believe the space lizards are out to get them.

Perhaps, contrary to everything we've been taught, racists are the most intelligent among us and the only ones capable of understanding the Jew Agenda for what it is. Maybe one day we'll be in the camps, forced to mine for gold and bake endless bagels, and we'll rue this day.

"If only we'd listened!", we shall cry, "why didn't we pay attention to all those pictures of Jewish people with yellow eyes and reptilian features? Oh, how foolish we were to claim they all looked photoshopped when clearly they were lizards all along!"

Not just the jews, though, it seems common amongst racists, whatever their views on other things and whoever they hate, to claim the people they hate are in league with the space lizards and spreading the homosexual agenda.

In for a penny, in for a pound. When you're hating on someone that intensely, you might as well take the chance to hate everyone else too. It's like how conspiracy theorists always manage to work absolutely everyone they have any kind of grudge against, or who even look a bit shifty, into their personal theories.

You end up with George Bush pulling off 9/11 with the aid of Bruce Willis, the space lizards, the UN, the milk regulatory board and Bob, the guy who runs the local Subway franchise and instructs his staff to be really stingy with the barbeque sauce.

Batou667:

TheIronRuler:
Fact is, we have white Jews from Europe, tanned Jews from N. Africa, the caucus, Asia, we have black Jews from Africa... Now you can look at that and say - "How the hell can a black man and a white man be of the same race?". It's because they're Jews.

But they're not racially the same, are they? They share a religion and maybe a culture, but they're not racially identical. That would be like saying my friend's girlfriend is, literally, a man because she comes to the pub with us and acts like "one of the lads".

.
The same? No, but they are very alike racially.
.

SonicWaffle:

TheIronRuler:

Shadowstar38:
The Iron Ruler is the only Jew on this forum. Might want to ask him.

I dont think we differenciate between the religion and the people, because you have to be one to be the other. And I just plain forgot the difference between ethnicity and race.

.
I don't think I'm the only Jew here, but thanks for the mention.

I think that Ravenshrike guy is Jewish too, but maybe I'm confusing him with someone else.

.
No, there are plenty of Jews and even Israelis here.

TheIronRuler:

Batou667:

But they're not racially the same, are they? They share a religion and maybe a culture, but they're not racially identical. That would be like saying my friend's girlfriend is, literally, a man because she comes to the pub with us and acts like "one of the lads".

.
The same? No, but they are very alike racially.

Perhaps we're using different definitions of race. I'm saying that a white Jew and a black Jew are ethnically different.

Because they choose to identify themselves as a separate race, I assume.

Grandcrusader:
I am watching Law and Order on right now.
Episode called " Hate " S9/EP10 1999

Well in this episode you have a white supremacist guy that attacks white jews in name of white racial dominance.

can somebody explain that to me.

White supremacy usually ties back to the idea of 'Aryan supremacy' (i.e. Nazi Ideology), Jews can be white but they're not Aryan, therefore are as big a target as blacks or Asians.

Honestly it's just retarded ideology designed to make people feel more important than they actually are.

Batou667:

TheIronRuler:

Batou667:

But they're not racially the same, are they? They share a religion and maybe a culture, but they're not racially identical. That would be like saying my friend's girlfriend is, literally, a man because she comes to the pub with us and acts like "one of the lads".

.
The same? No, but they are very alike racially.

Perhaps we're using different definitions of race. I'm saying that a white Jew and a black Jew are ethnically different.

.
There are enough connections between the same original Jewish people to consider black Jews as the same race as White Jews... that's at least how I perceive it. When the idea of 'race' was made, Jews were often times unable to fit the mold given to them. This is the result.

pyrate:
Race is a social construct, not a biological one. A race is whatever we want it to be.

This is simply not true.

It is true that there are no MEANINGFUL differences between different races, but the idea that races are "just in our head" is nonsense created by modern political correctness.

TheIronRuler:

Batou667:

TheIronRuler:

.
The same? No, but they are very alike racially.

Perhaps we're using different definitions of race. I'm saying that a white Jew and a black Jew are ethnically different.

.
There are enough connections between the same original Jewish people to consider black Jews as the same race as White Jews... that's at least how I perceive it. When the idea of 'race' was made, Jews were often times unable to fit the mold given to them. This is the result.

Um...what? I assume you are talking about Ethiopian Jews, yes? They are not the same group as Ashkenazi, Sephardi or Mizrahim. They are former gentiles that converted to Judaism, they are not ethnically the same group as you and I[1].

[1] I'm not saying they are not Jews though

Hardcore_gamer:

pyrate:
Race is a social construct, not a biological one. A race is whatever we want it to be.

This is simply not true.

It is true that there are no MEANINGFUL differences between different races, but the idea that races are "just in our head" is nonsense created by modern political correctness.

.
...and where did the term 'race' was created?

To start; the Juadism is a religion and if it ever was a term for a specific race, that window closed at least 1500 years ago. I know some of us might find it a little disrespectful; but I find that a quote from Adolf Hitler tends to drive the issue home; even it comes across as somewhat ironic.
" We use the term Jewish race as a matter of convenience, for in reality and from the genetic point of view there is no such thing as the Jewish race. There does, however, exist a community, to which, in fact, the term can be applied and the existence of which is admitted by the Jews themselves. It is the spiritually homogeneous group, to membership of which all Jews throughout the world deliberately adhere, regardless of their whereabouts and of their country of domicile; and it is this group of human beings to which we give the title Jewish race.....The Jewish race is first and foremost an abstract race of the mind.........A race of the mind is something more solid, more durable than just a race, pure and simple...."

Apologies if it offends.

TheIronRuler:

Hardcore_gamer:

pyrate:
Race is a social construct, not a biological one. A race is whatever we want it to be.

This is simply not true.

It is true that there are no MEANINGFUL differences between different races, but the idea that races are "just in our head" is nonsense created by modern political correctness.

.
...and where did the term 'race' was created?

Well...In biology, races are distinct physically and genetically divergent populations within the same species with minor morphological and genetic differences. If sufficiently different (from the observers view), two or more races can be identified as subspecies, though in some circles the two terms are relatively interchangeable. When labeled as 'races' the different populations often lack the sufficient differences or more often popular scientific support to be given the 'formal' label of subspecies. The term 'race' is simply a carry over of early scientific biology applied to human beings.

Karma168:

Grandcrusader:
I am watching Law and Order on right now.
Episode called " Hate " S9/EP10 1999

Well in this episode you have a white supremacist guy that attacks white jews in name of white racial dominance.

can somebody explain that to me.

White supremacy usually ties back to the idea of 'Aryan supremacy' (i.e. Nazi Ideology), Jews can be white but they're not Aryan, therefore are as big a target as blacks or Asians.

Honestly it's just retarded ideology designed to make people feel more important than they actually are.

Not according to White Nationalist ideology, and frankly I'm inclined to agree. By what standard are Jews white? Ashkenazim are pale-skinned, but if that's all it takes then there are plenty of "white" East Asians, Native Americans, etc. Jews are culturally and ethnically distinct.

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