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Nikolaz72:

Verbatim:
Snip

Whatever excuses you have and strawmen you build, this still doesnt justify the possibility of abuse.

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*Verb explains himself*
*Nikolaz disregards what he said*
*Iron stares blankly at the screen*
We talked about this before, but this time you're the one doing it! He has a point. What you've said earlier took it to 11, but profiling people based on their connections to other individuals and their past is something governments do to keep tabs on potential trouble-makers within their borders. It doesn't matter if your name sounds foreign or if your skin color is a tad more tanned than usual.

You're right that it can be abused, but so can anything else in the hands of government if not subjected to a series of checks and balances. This is a case of government abusing its power - it can always do that, yet I don't see you act as a libertarian - You're a social-democrat! You love the welfare state. You're more akin to someone who prefers a benevolent dictatorship than the guys crying for civil liberties at the kebab corner-shop.

TheIronRuler:
Snip

Suprise suprise. But again, same reply as before. Dont really get why you're so adamant about there 'not' being a downside to this. Which was the only point I made. Now excuse while I go eat chocolate.

Nikolaz72:

TheIronRuler:
Snip

Suprise suprise. But again, same reply as before. Dont really get why you're so adamant about there 'not' being a downside to this. Which was the only point I made. Now excuse while I go eat chocolate.

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A downside to it? There's the chance of abusing this, of course, but that never stopped you from getting in a car if there's a chance you'll get into a car accident.

Nikolaz72:

Verbatim:
Snip

Whatever excuses you have and strawmen you build, this still doesnt justify the possibility of abuse.

There is no evidence that intelligence agencies are targeting Muslims just for the sake of targeting Muslims, and why would they?
for one thing, there are 2.6 million Muslims in the US, 476 thousand in Australia and 2.86 million in the United kingdom.
It just ceases to be a useful statistic at that level, all moral objections aside.

TheIronRuler:
Not too different from that Ukrainian party.

Wasn't Auschwitz in Poland?

It was built and operated on land which was belonged to Poland pre-war and post-war, if that's what you mean.

Ukraine and Hungary are not quite the same thing. Wartime Ukraine was partial to Nazi Germany because they saw them as preferable alternative to the Soviet Union (and who could blame them, after the Holodomor). That doesn't excuse the atrocities committed by the Ukrainian Independence Army, but it puts things in perspective.

Hungary was allied to the Axis because of pre-war economic ties - they weren't directly threatened by the USSR, but they decided to align their politics with the guys who helped them out of the depression. Later, during the war, they were granted some additional territories as reward for cooperation and military help. Their antisemitic policies were more pragmatic, and therefore modern antisemitism in Hungary is less excusable.

Nikolaz72:

TheIronRuler:
Snip

Suprise suprise. But again, same reply as before. Dont really get why you're so adamant about there 'not' being a downside to this. Which was the only point I made. Now excuse while I go eat chocolate.

Because "abuse" has nothing to do with profiling, a racist cop will be a racist cop weather he's allowed to profile or not.
That said a bad profile is worse than no profiling at all, so taking into account "Muslim" as a 1 dimensional profile is staggeringly stupid considering there is 1.6bln of them in the world. It's like going after all Catholics when you are looking for a child molester.
I've stated before that airlines that do actively use profiling do not target Muslims, they target passengers. I find it mind boggling that people accept "nude" scanners, and a TSA rep grabbing their junk but can't accept a questions like where did you come from, where are you going, ask them about past visits based on stamps in their passport and other "personal" questions that are only aimed at judging their responses and to see if they fit a profile.
If you think it's OK to treat a 4 yr old girl and her 88 yr old grandmother traveling home for xmas the same way you would treat a young male with a questionable background traveling alone with a one way ticket payed in cash you're abusing common sense.

Gold:
I think its a bit far to say its Auschwitz, but at the same time....what the hell?

Economy in the gutter? Blame the Jews! I know that's not quite what they're doing, but the echoes of 1920s Germany are there. It's a long road from calling Jews an enemy within and a threat to national security to building the furnaces and gas chambers, but that's the direction someone seems to want to go. With luck, an economic revival will knock them right out.

WouldYouKindly:
What's up with fascists and jews? That was Hitler's thing. There are plenty of ethnic or political minorities to scapegoat in any given country.

Glad to see right wing insanity, though prevalent in the U.S., hasn't quite gotten that far... or has it? I'm not exactly up to date on if some nutter representative said we should put gays in concentration camps yet.

Gays, no, not that I've heard, but wasn't there a DJ over there who tried to make a joke by saying, or faking a call from someone saying, that Muslims should be forced to wear crescent moon symbols in public so decent US citizens would know when one was near ... and got inundated with calls saying "Damn right!" rather than the "Oh hell no!" he'd expected?

Shoqiyqa:
Glad to see right wing insanity, though prevalent in the U.S., hasn't quite gotten that far... or has it? I'm not exactly up to date on if some nutter representative said we should put gays in concentration camps yet.

Gays, no, not that I've heard, but wasn't there a DJ over there who tried to make a joke by saying, or faking a call from someone saying, that Muslims should be forced to wear crescent moon symbols in public so decent US citizens would know when one was near ... and got inundated with calls saying "Damn right!" rather than the "Oh hell no!" he'd expected?[/quote]

I don't think a representative of the government in the USA said so (regarding homosexuals) as yet, but there was a pastor who got in the news for it:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/22/nation/la-na-nn-pastor-wants-to-put-gays-lesbians-behind-electrified-fence-20120522
Leave them locked up until they die out. I guess it's not quite as bad as the annihilation camps of the Nazis, but does it compare to the "regular" concentration camps? Probably.

Skeleon:

Shoqiyqa:
Glad to see right wing insanity, though prevalent in the U.S., hasn't quite gotten that far... or has it? I'm not exactly up to date on if some nutter representative said we should put gays in concentration camps yet.

Gays, no, not that I've heard, but wasn't there a DJ over there who tried to make a joke by saying, or faking a call from someone saying, that Muslims should be forced to wear crescent moon symbols in public so decent US citizens would know when one was near ... and got inundated with calls saying "Damn right!" rather than the "Oh hell no!" he'd expected?

I don't think a representative of the government in the USA said so (regarding homosexuals) as yet, but there was a pastor who got in the news for it:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/22/nation/la-na-nn-pastor-wants-to-put-gays-lesbians-behind-electrified-fence-20120522
Leave them locked up until they die out. I guess it's not quite as bad as the annihilation camps of the Nazis, but does it compare to the "regular" concentration camps? Probably.[/quote]
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More akin to concentration camps, yes.

Labor Camps, Concentration Camps, Death Camps. Concentration camps is where the Jews were concentrated (A lot in Poland lived in rural areas, in small villages spread across the land)... people who were there were those who weren't fit for the Labor camps. There was actually a life going on in these concentration camps. You had musical instruments being smuggled in, schools operating, etc. etc.
People LIVED there for years, in squalor and famine.
Labor camps were a tad better since you were better fed, but you could have just as easily dropped dead from exhaustion.

Death camps... I don't even want to describe it. Lets just say that the Jews weren't dying fast enough for the Germans.

Nikolaz72:
Whatever excuses you have and strawmen you build, this still doesnt justify the possibility of abuse.

That seems to suggest you're opposed to any form of profiling, right?

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