Penn Jillette attempts logic on Sandy Hook

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I didn't see any reference to this on the forums yet, so here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Lw7xa6lHU

In the video, the host, a reporter, a financial analyst, and a magician discuss Sandy Hook. During the discussion, the magician is the only one not using misdirection. It's worth a look.

In a lot of ways, I feel like Penn. I try to explain logically that video games are not to blame, and all I get back is "gun violence doesn't happen in Sweden!!!" Anybody else feel that Penn was wasting his breath?

Guns don't kill people, video games kill people.

Royal King:
Anybody else feel that Penn was wasting his breath?

No, there are people who'll listen to him, even people who may not have known about him before this, and at the least he's pointing out how silly a lot of the discussion is, in a way.

Now compared to the three hawks Penn went against, he actually was far politer and actually put things logically, had actual evidence to back himself up, and called out the others when they made evidenceless/illogical claims. I wish they would actually allow him to TALK, with there constant inturptions, ('We need more hugs in households!"). He also DEFIED the current NRA "art is to blame" thing. I actually felt sorry for him at the end as they just stopped listening to his reasoning. I hoped the audience listened, those are the ones that matter.

Gold:
Guns don't kill people, video games kill people.

Umm...

Penn never said that, not in this video, not in ANY interview. He actually said "Call of Duty is art" right in that video.

Actually, the three women were both calling for gun control and bans on violent video games.

Not G. Ivingname:

Umm...

Penn never said that

Okay

Not G. Ivingname:
not in this video

Okay

Not G. Ivingname:
not in ANY interview.

Okay.

Funnily enough, I wasn't saying that he did though. I was mocking the fact people are blaming games, if anything I was siding with Penn so I'm not sure why you even bothered quoting me.

Gold:

Not G. Ivingname:

Umm...

Penn never said that

Okay

Not G. Ivingname:
not in this video

Okay

Not G. Ivingname:
not in ANY interview.

Okay.

Funnily enough, I wasn't saying that he did though. I was mocking the fact people are blaming games, if anything I was siding with Penn so I'm not sure why you even bothered quoting me.

Sorry, it sounded like you were making a statement without even bothering to watch the video and had decided Penn spotted what the NRA been saying. I can't hear sarcasm over the internet, unless you use the pink font.

Not G. Ivingname:

Gold:

Not G. Ivingname:

Umm...

Penn never said that

Okay

Not G. Ivingname:
not in this video

Okay

Not G. Ivingname:
not in ANY interview.

Okay.

Funnily enough, I wasn't saying that he did though. I was mocking the fact people are blaming games, if anything I was siding with Penn so I'm not sure why you even bothered quoting me.

Sorry, it sounded like you were making a statement without even bothering to watch the video and had decided Penn spotted what the NRA been saying. I can't hear sarcasm over the internet, unless you use the pink font.

Pink font is for cowards and people with no understanding of the importance of subtlety. Though I may be the latter I am certainly not the former and refuse to use it on those grounds.

OT- I agree with Penn on a wide range of issues and I feel he is great at presenting his points soundly. This is no exception.

It felt like Penn Jillette was playing in a different level really. Not surprising though since he's not just a magician, he did host Bullshit for quite some time.
Although I believe you would get a similar result if you brought in any random dude who isn't involved with any side. Normal people know that video games or society isn't to blame. I like how he pointed out that most people with mental disorders and most people with guns do not kill people. It deserves to be pointed out from time to time.

Royal King:

In a lot of ways, I feel like Penn. I try to explain logically that video games are not to blame, and all I get back is "gun violence doesn't happen in Sweden!!!" Anybody else feel that Penn was wasting his breath?

And for expletive word for sexual intercourses sake. Sweden, Switzerland, Sweden, Switzerland. Asides from the fact that they begin with the same letter they're not at all similar. It's like mixing up Canada with Cambodia. There is just no excuse.

Royal King:
I didn't see any reference to this on the forums yet, so here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Lw7xa6lHU

In the video, the host, a reporter, a financial analyst, and a magician discuss Sandy Hook. During the discussion, the magician is the only one not using misdirection. It's worth a look.

In a lot of ways, I feel like Penn. I try to explain logically that video games are not to blame, and all I get back is "gun violence doesn't happen in Sweden!!!" Anybody else feel that Penn was wasting his breath?

Sweden doesn't ban video games?

He appears to be the only sane one there. The Media is a catastrophe in the US. LOL

Royal King:
In the video, the host, a reporter, a financial analyst, and a magician discuss Sandy Hook.

You know you're in trouble in terms of how your media handles things when among those people the magician makes the most sense.

Atrocious Joystick:
And for expletive word for sexual intercourses sake. Sweden, Switzerland, Sweden, Switzerland. Asides from the fact that they begin with the same letter they're not at all similar. It's like mixing up Canada with Cambodia. There is just no excuse.

Doesn't matter. The response is always "Gun violence doesn't happen in ___________". You could fill that line with Colombia, and people will still believe it.

amazing how they were mixing aspergers and being a sociopath together. im glad Penn pulled them up on it.

thanks to things like this in the media the past week its really hurt people with aspergers badly, i know a lot in the comunity now are worried that the moment they tell someone they have aspergers people will automatically assume they are dangerous

Is anyone really surprised by how that show went? Shows like that are for empty heads screeching back and forth, not discussion.

Reporters are taught to get ratings. A financial analyst knows how to get people riled up. Magicians are the same, but Penn Jillette had made a career out of exposing lies for what they are; lies.

This does not surprise me in any way except in that they let him on the show.

Damien Granz:

Royal King:
I didn't see any reference to this on the forums yet, so here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Lw7xa6lHU

In the video, the host, a reporter, a financial analyst, and a magician discuss Sandy Hook. During the discussion, the magician is the only one not using misdirection. It's worth a look.

In a lot of ways, I feel like Penn. I try to explain logically that video games are not to blame, and all I get back is "gun violence doesn't happen in Sweden!!!" Anybody else feel that Penn was wasting his breath?

Sweden doesn't ban video games?

Sweden bans videogames, but not due to violence (not that I am aware of), but having unlockable features where you can pose girls (that are stated in-game to be 15) in sexually suggestive poses. Because it violates the law against child pornography, which is not limited to sexual acts, but anything involving a minor which has "sexual or sexualized content". The law is formulated kinda weird.
I believe the latest Soul Calibur got the taste of that ban.

Realitycrash:

Sweden bans videogames, but not due to violence (not that I am aware of), but having unlockable features where you can pose girls (that are stated in-game to be 15) in sexually suggestive poses. Because it violates the law against child pornography, which is not limited to sexual acts, but anything involving a minor which has "sexual or sexualized content". The law is formulated kinda weird.
I believe the latest Soul Calibur got the taste of that ban.

Actually we don't ban games like at all. Most of the politicans don't seem to care abotu Video Games and those that do care are often opposed, but they're quite a mjority.

The time the "pedophile-paiting" fiasco occured was with a guy having animated pornographic images on his computer, and that apparently counted as Child-pornography, I don't think it has occured since then.

This man has nerves of steel, i would've smacked the 3 of them for being idiots.

SecretNegative:

Realitycrash:

Sweden bans videogames, but not due to violence (not that I am aware of), but having unlockable features where you can pose girls (that are stated in-game to be 15) in sexually suggestive poses. Because it violates the law against child pornography, which is not limited to sexual acts, but anything involving a minor which has "sexual or sexualized content". The law is formulated kinda weird.
I believe the latest Soul Calibur got the taste of that ban.

Actually we don't ban games like at all. Most of the politicans don't seem to care abotu Video Games and those that do care are often opposed, but they're quite a mjority.

The time the "pedophile-paiting" fiasco occured was with a guy having animated pornographic images on his computer, and that apparently counted as Child-pornography, I don't think it has occured since then.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.285383-Rumor-Dead-or-Alive-Dimensions-Pulled-From-Sweden-Over-Child-Porn-Laws

This was the game and situation I was referring to, though it is only a rumor, I see now.

Thing is, I really dislike Penn Jillette and think he's completely wrong about a lot of things, but I guess you can set the wrong up against the crazy and make the wrong into the right.

SecretNegative:

Realitycrash:

Sweden bans video games, but not due to violence (not that I am aware of), but having unlockable features where you can pose girls (that are stated in-game to be 15) in sexually suggestive poses. Because it violates the law against child pornography, which is not limited to sexual acts, but anything involving a minor which has "sexual or sexualized content". The law is formulated kinda weird.
I believe the latest Soul Calibur got the taste of that ban.

Actually we don't ban games like at all. Most of the politicians don't seem to care about Video Games and those that do care are often opposed, but they're quite a majority.

The time the "pedophile-paiting" fiasco occurred was with a guy having animated pornographic images on his computer, and that apparently counted as Child-pornography, I don't think it has occurred since then.

Yeah, and to be fair, the United States will ban child pornography too.

Thing is, if you want to really look at differences between cultures you actually look at the differences.

Canada, Sweden, Japan, UK, etc.: Same violent movies, same violent TV, same violent video games, much less guns, much less crime, much less gun crime, much less spree shooting. Games and movies not likely to be the culprit.

Realitycrash:

SecretNegative:

Realitycrash:

Sweden bans videogames, but not due to violence (not that I am aware of), but having unlockable features where you can pose girls (that are stated in-game to be 15) in sexually suggestive poses. Because it violates the law against child pornography, which is not limited to sexual acts, but anything involving a minor which has "sexual or sexualized content". The law is formulated kinda weird.
I believe the latest Soul Calibur got the taste of that ban.

Actually we don't ban games like at all. Most of the politicans don't seem to care abotu Video Games and those that do care are often opposed, but they're quite a mjority.

The time the "pedophile-paiting" fiasco occured was with a guy having animated pornographic images on his computer, and that apparently counted as Child-pornography, I don't think it has occured since then.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.285383-Rumor-Dead-or-Alive-Dimensions-Pulled-From-Sweden-Over-Child-Porn-Laws

This was the game and situation I was referring to, though it is only a rumor, I see now.

That wasn't actually a banned game; it was a decision on Bergsala´s part to not release it at all, presumably because they didn't want to risk potential legal problems (this happened shortly after the ruckus concerning a manga translator). You are still allowed import it (as far as I know).

Some reading for y'all: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-20-nordic-dead-or-alive-release-ruined

Then again, Arcana Heart 3 got released in Sweden shortly after all that, with no legal reprecussions.

EDIT: Nevermind, turns out my info is out of date.

I'd forgotten how much I love Penn. He's able to cut through the bull shit and it's amazing how much my line of thinking aligns with his.

Realitycrash:

SecretNegative:

Realitycrash:

Sweden bans videogames, but not due to violence (not that I am aware of), but having unlockable features where you can pose girls (that are stated in-game to be 15) in sexually suggestive poses. Because it violates the law against child pornography, which is not limited to sexual acts, but anything involving a minor which has "sexual or sexualized content". The law is formulated kinda weird.
I believe the latest Soul Calibur got the taste of that ban.

Actually we don't ban games like at all. Most of the politicans don't seem to care abotu Video Games and those that do care are often opposed, but they're quite a mjority.

The time the "pedophile-paiting" fiasco occured was with a guy having animated pornographic images on his computer, and that apparently counted as Child-pornography, I don't think it has occured since then.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.285383-Rumor-Dead-or-Alive-Dimensions-Pulled-From-Sweden-Over-Child-Porn-Laws

This was the game and situation I was referring to, though it is only a rumor, I see now.

no that game is allowed here, certain retailers just didn't feel like selling it, hell I have it, its my favourite game on the 3ds.
http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/spel/nintendo_3ds/111933-dead_or_alive-dimensions_3ds
I do like how these guys reacted to the fiasco, "somewhat challenging" and then went and sold the game, haven't gotten anything yet.
also about that manga guy and the stuff on his computer, he got off, the court ruled that paintings were not humans hence he was allowed to go free.

I'm impressed with Penn as always. Shutting the sensationalism down like it's nobodies business.

Smeatza:
I'm impressed with Penn as always. Shutting the sensationalism down like it's nobodies business.

I enjoy listening to Penn talk. He sometimes forgets he's *not* the most awesome person on the planet. That's Teller.

I remember when I was in college and I started watching 'Bullshit!' and I fell in love. Penn and Teller do an excellent job of trying to apply scientific observations and empiricism to what they believe in. The nice thing also is that when they are trying to uncover something that is controversial (such as gun control or assisted suicide for examples) they try to pose both sides as being rational human beings, even when they don't agree with one side.

Do I agree with Penn on everything? No. But that's the whole point behind him and other libertarians (of which I am one). We don't try to force our viewpoint through because it's simply not for everybody. There's a lot that one has to accept in order to become a libertarian, particularly with this current situation regarding Sandy Hook. Penn isn't saying that violent video games, mental dysfunction, or gun liberties caused this disaster and he isn't there to force an incredibly faulty solution through. Sometimes, shit happens. As terrible as it is, we can't control all tragedies, all we can do is help to facilitate the healing process and promote personal responsibility amongst ourselves.

Penn is one of those rare voices who knows how to put down emotional and sensational aside so that we can start to talk like adults on important issues.

Penn Jillette...interesting fella he is. Gotta hand it to him&Teller, they do their homework, they do their research, and they do try their damnest to be impartial about stuff. They still make mistakes, of course, being human and all. I generally like listening to him even if in disagreement.

And in this particular case, yes, he's the one that makes the most sense.

Aulleas123:

Do I agree with Penn on everything? No. But that's the whole point behind him and other libertarians (of which I am one). We don't try to force our viewpoint through because it's simply not for everybody. There's a lot that one has to accept in order to become a libertarian, particularly with this current situation regarding Sandy Hook.

No offense, but it's not like keeping an open mind is exclusive to the libertarians, nor does every libertarian keep an open mind, some of them are downright dogmatic.

But I agree keeping an open mind and being willing to consider things you find uncomfortable and disagreeable is a good thing, mind.

I love Penn Jillette and used to regularly watch his various v-log shows and own his books. And every time someone posts these types of videos of him I end up marathoning his various new appearances and then end up watching Bullshit! for the rest of the day.

Damn you OP! Damn youuuuuuu!!

Royal King:

Atrocious Joystick:
And for expletive word for sexual intercourses sake. Sweden, Switzerland, Sweden, Switzerland. Asides from the fact that they begin with the same letter they're not at all similar. It's like mixing up Canada with Cambodia. There is just no excuse.

Doesn't matter. The response is always "Gun violence doesn't happen in ___________". You could fill that line with Colombia, and people will still believe it.

Gun violence doesn't happen on the Moon and there are no video games on the Moon. Your move Hippie, commie, gay, atheist, muslim anti-'murican.

My lord those women go on such random tangents, from mental health to aspergers syndrome and then suddenly "Politiciaaaannnnns!"

And my god, the crowd clapping, its like a pantamime

He was calm and logical except for the fact he claimed "these incidents are rare" when they are not. The death toll in this case was very high, 26 stolen lives and shattered families but there are many others where 2-3 people are killed or only one person killed and a few wounded. Those incidents don't get as much media attention

Its hard to find comprehensive statistics but in 14 years there may have been over 120 of these incidents. Statistically that's more than 8 per year. That is not "rare".

Edit,

Source for the 120+ since 1999, its not comprehensive and misses some incidents as well as missing the ones after publication but as far as I can tell every case its lists is true and accurate. There are some sources that claim a far, far higher figure. But I am not in the mood to try and confirm 50+ just in the last twelves months so I will stick with the 120+ since 1999.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/07/appalling-frequency-of-the-shooting-spree.html

Oh man, not the damn wendy williams show... Insufferable! Good vid none the less. Interesting points I guess. Glad someone defends the video games. Oh well, still glad I don't live in the states, nice to visit and all but never want to live there.

Vegosiux:

Aulleas123:

Do I agree with Penn on everything? No. But that's the whole point behind him and other libertarians (of which I am one). We don't try to force our viewpoint through because it's simply not for everybody. There's a lot that one has to accept in order to become a libertarian, particularly with this current situation regarding Sandy Hook.

No offense, but it's not like keeping an open mind is exclusive to the libertarians, nor does every libertarian keep an open mind, some of them are downright dogmatic.

But I agree keeping an open mind and being willing to consider things you find uncomfortable and disagreeable is a good thing, mind.

I take no offense, after all I have a bias towards my own viewpoint so clearly my words were poorly chosen. In addition, there are things which Penn takes and butchers people on, but usually those are issues which are pretty obvious such as UFO's, vaccinations, and video game violence.

My own bias aside (which tells me that I'm actually a divine being who has been brought to earth to teach you all about love and peace and farting sunshine), I really feel like there are a lot more people who are from both liberalism and conservatism who are very closed minded towards others' viewpoints. However, I would say that this is simply because there are more of them and many of them are very vocal, but that's more to speak about the culture rather than those individuals. I agree though that there are several very dogmatic libertarians who are very nasty towards people who disagree.

Of course, this comes from me, a guy who is anonymous on the internet and on a forum which is typically the pit of poorly done political discourse.

Only just got around to watching this. I was impressed by Gilette's rationality in the face of shrieking and wildly spinning harridans, a little surprised that he wasn't pushing for gun control, and depressed by the typical blame shifting arguments of the other women which basically boiled down to "think of the children". And the clapping. The god damn clapping.

My only counter to Gilette would be that spree shootings, which he calls "anomalies", are still statistically significant enough to merit a good hard look at guns and gun culture. We could argue that death by nuclear warhead is a statistical blip that rounds to zero when taken in the context of worldwide causes of death, but from that we wouldn't conclude "nukes are fine, let anybody own them". Gun-related deaths are wholly preventable, unlike traffic accidents and drowning, which are generally tragic accidents despite all reasonable safeguards being in place. Apples and oranges, basically.

J Tyran:
The death toll in this case was very high, 26 stolen lives

Except something like 45 Americans commit suicide daily, and 80-odd are killed on the roads. The school shooting lasted 14 minutes, during which another 1500 people died worldwide of any cause (statistically, that's 75 in the USA alone). So yes, this is an anomaly. More people are killed by their TV's than spree-shootings, for crying out loud.

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