Israeli Elections thread. Enter if you care. *Government already set*

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Verbatim:
Then again, I'm not Israeli.

Then why does your profile say otherwise?

Helmholtz Watson:

Verbatim:
Then again, I'm not Israeli.

Then why does your profile say otherwise?

That was me. There was some weird thing going on with quoting.

Frission:

Helmholtz Watson:

Verbatim:
Then again, I'm not Israeli.

Then why does your profile say otherwise?

That was me. There was some weird thing going on with quoting.

Ah ok. I guess the site is just acting up.

Bah. It's nice to see Netanyahu lose out quite a bit, but I was hoping he actually wouldn't get reelected. Too bad.

Update3: The government formed.
I'm posting here to avoid having to make a new thread. It took them a good month to finally do it.

New government composition: Likud our home - 31
There's a future - 19
The movement (headed by tvipi livni) - 6
Jewish Home - 12

That's 68 seats altogether. You need 61 to run a coalition government.

Interesting details:

There's a future and Jewish home banded together during the negotiations with Likud, hoping to extract more benefits from the coalition government.
Tzipi Livni was the first to come together with Benjamin Netanyahu. This was the one who ran on being the only party that will definitely not join together with Likud.

Notable features -
Yair Lapid is minister of treasury (May god help us all).
Jewish home has control over the finances committee and the housing ministry (woo settlements).
There's a future has ministry of education.
Tzipi Livni nabbed the Justice ministry (ability to appoint supreme court judges, exerts some power over the judiciary).
Jewish home got control over the state's religious institutions (Chief Rabbinate of Israel). Elections for high ranking religious jobs are due and he can influence who gets in and who gets out. Elections to these jobs are once per ten years.
Likud has the ministry of defense.
Netanyahu keeps the ministry of foreign affairs while Lieberman is in court, would return it to him if he is eligible after the trial ends.
Previous Parliament chairman is booted out by Netanyahu, replaced with a more palatable alternative.
Coalition arrangements include raising the bar from 2% to 4% requirements of votes to get into Parliament. This puts in danger most of the smaller parties.
Cabinet significantly reduced to 21 ministers, plans to legislate laws to cap it at 18.
Disgruntlement in the Likud party itself over its fall from grace. First sparks of a counter movement to Prime Minister Netanyahu.
War Cabinet significantly reduced to 7(8). Includes all necessary 5 (Prime minister, minister of defense, minister of treasury, minister of foreign affairs, minister of internal affairs, minister of justice) , with additions of Jewish Home chairman and Gilad Erdan, young high ranked member of Likud. Israel our home chairman Lieberman due to come in when and if his trial ends and is allowed into power as minister.
.
The Opposition -
Opposition leader will probably be Labor chairwoman.
Shas and United Torah Judaism were left outside the coalition fence this time. They have an axe to grind with Lapid and are now bloodthirsty, turning their sights at the settlements. They will shift gears towards being more left oriented.
The opposition will now be much more active and militant. Nearly all parties there are out for revenge.

Unrelated notes: Netanyahu's apology to the Turkish PM could stand to influence Israel our home's chairman and his decisions in the future. He was adamantly opposed to it, but because he wasn't a minister at the time he had no veto right to stop it. I expect interesting developments there.

Yes, the food in the army is terrible. Thanks for asking.

I'm a Jewish American but I wish I could vote in the Israeli election. Israel is a blessing from God, it is the fulfillment of the promise God made to our ancestors, I am not ashamed to admit I am a Zionist and I support Israel fully.

Keep in mind this does not mean I agree with everything they do, nor do I hate Palestinans. But the land belongs to the Jews, it is NOT an occupation and Israel has every right to exist whether people like it or not. I don't necessarily mind if Palestinians got their own state, but not at the expense of Israel or it's safety.

Also to those who think a side state would stop the fighting, you are wrong. The fighting won't stop, the Arab countries want to wipe Israel off the face of the map and you can sure as hell bet that many Palestinians feel the same way. And Hamas has to be killed, no other way around this.

Some issues you can try to take a middle ground approach, not possible with this one. In the end you either side with the Jews (God's chosen people and a beacon of freedom and human rights) or you side with the Palestinians/Arabs (who do not practice democracy and abuse women, gays, and people who practice different faiths).

The choice is an easy one. I'm a Jew, I know where my loyalties lie.

TheLycanKing144:
Some issues you can try to take a middle ground approach, not possible with this one. In the end you either side with the Jews (God's chosen people and a beacon of freedom and human rights) or you side with the Palestinians/Arabs (who do not practice democracy and abuse women, gays, and people who practice different faiths).

The choice is an easy one. I'm a Jew, I know where my loyalties lie.

What do you think of Jews who attack the hardline Israeli government for their treatment of the Palestinians? What do you think of prominent Jewish media figures like Jon Stewart criticizing people like Netanyahu? I don't think it's as simple as you appear to make it out to be.

Skeleon:

TheLycanKing144:
Some issues you can try to take a middle ground approach, not possible with this one. In the end you either side with the Jews (God's chosen people and a beacon of freedom and human rights) or you side with the Palestinians/Arabs (who do not practice democracy and abuse women, gays, and people who practice different faiths).

The choice is an easy one. I'm a Jew, I know where my loyalties lie.

What do you think of Jews who attack the hardline Israeli government for their treatment of the Palestinians? What do you think of prominent Jewish media figures like Jon Stewart criticizing people like Netanyahu? I don't think it's as simple as you appear to make it out to be.

Disagreeing with certain actions of the Israeli government is one thing, being against Israel is very different and the people that I have something against. Most Jews know where their loyalty lies, the few Jews who are against Israel we call them "Bogeds" which is Hebrew for Traitors. These are often self-hating Jews who also tend to be atheists (ironic as even most atheist Jews also support Israel).

The situation isn't as simple as I may have made it out to be, at least not for a Gentile. As a Jew it is because we know who our "tribe" is. So you are right about this not being so simple. But in others it is, the fact is that we have a homeland now (even though my loyalty is to America first and to Israel second) and we want to live there in peace. But it's not as simple as you believe it is either, I recommend talking to Jewish people and finding out why we support it.

And using Jon Stewart is a terrible example. He does NOT speak for all Jews, and is really nothing more than a comedian that people take too seriously. He is mostly popular among naive young people who use him as their news source, which is stupid to do as he is nothing more a lefty-biased political commentator at best (and this is coming from someone who watches Jon on occasion).

In the end you have to choose a side. You either side with us, the Jews, who despite our history we managed to rise above it and be blessed with a nation. A nation that promotes democracy and human rights. Or you side with the Arabs, who are not a democracy and do not value human rights.

Disagreeing with some of Israel's policies is one thing, being against Israel it's self however makes one an enemy in my book.

Skeleon:

TheLycanKing144:
Some issues you can try to take a middle ground approach, not possible with this one. In the end you either side with the Jews (God's chosen people and a beacon of freedom and human rights) or you side with the Palestinians/Arabs (who do not practice democracy and abuse women, gays, and people who practice different faiths).

The choice is an easy one. I'm a Jew, I know where my loyalties lie.

What do you think of Jews who attack the hardline Israeli government for their treatment of the Palestinians? What do you think of prominent Jewish media figures like Jon Stewart criticizing people like Netanyahu? I don't think it's as simple as you appear to make it out to be.

.
hardline? Treatment of them haven't been vastly different between different administrations. The difference being is the ability to withstand pressure from some groups to hit harder, other groups to look the other way, and communicating with reality while trying to make the best decision. Some succeed more than others.

A fair warning, I don't want to see this devolve into an off-topic argument.

TheIronRuler:
Quote for attention

If I recall correctly last summer had a lot of protest due to food and housing prices. What can we expect the new government to do about it ?

Gorr:

TheIronRuler:
Quote for attention

If I recall correctly last summer had a lot of protest due to food and housing prices. What can we expect the new government to do about it ?

.
It was a protest of bored, under-employed hippies that received an unprecedented and unexpected push from the truly fucked population living in the region (those homeless, in massive debt, physically/mentally unable to care for themselves). They were then joined together with some middle-class citizens who felt that the recent spikes in gas prices (do note that these get some heavy taxation) and rise in food prices are unbearable. Additionally there were a LOT of left wing activists who were trying to hijack the movement (and succeeded).

The left media (because honestly, nearly all news outlets here are left oriented) blasted the fuck out of this into outer space. In reality the number of protests was much lower than reported and it peaked just once at some tens of thousands of people in one night of marching and faffing around. It spun some heavy criticism (from people who were just waiting to lob mud at the right wing government) and gave birth to interesting policy changes and rhetoric. It also gave birth to a large deficit created by programs made by the government to appease the public, programs that will be cut soon when the time comes to pass a new budget

The 68 seat government and the much tighter budget could end this government very quickly, leading to some unpredictable results. I don't know how they could stomach to cut away at the programs. Yair Lapid, "there's a future"'s chairman is minister of treasury. The banks are doing somewhat fine, housing prices have stopped rising for the past few months and the only grumblings we hear about social justice is the political left and the media.

To summarize, new government will cut away at the spending and will raise taxes. 2009 elections had Netanyahu promise not to raise taxes on the middle class, and he did just that. I think that these elections he never bothered to promise that.

Hopefully the gas mining revenues could offset the budget deficit and lead to lowered taxation, but that's only due in around two or three years.

So, one quick question: Why are the opposition so out for blood/vengeance?

Xeorm:
So, one quick question: Why are the opposition so out for blood/vengeance?

.
The ultra-orthodox parties of Shas and United Torah Judaism have been booted out of the coalition because of Yair Lapid and his unholy alliance with Jewish Home. These two have been the tipping point of many governments before and used their position to bolster budgets for their sector and give them benefits. Their absence in the government coupled with the large budget deficit will put the bloated social budget for their sector on the chopping block (though it's relatively small compared to what is needed to fix the deficit).
Netanyahu could pull a Sharon and do what he did with Yair Lapid's father, which would be... kinda hilarious, but the haredi parties are going to be very active so they could either block decisions that hurt them or topple the government altogether so they could shuffle their cards. They could forgive Netagyahu for his betrayal, but they already set their sights on the settlements and the religious nationalist movement which had been under fire in the Haredi public sphere for over a month now...

The Labor party headed by its chairwoman is in grave political danger within her own party. At the moment she has to contend with disgruntled officials and colleagues that pushed her towards the coalition. She needs to prove herself on the political stage and grab some public attention for the next elections, so she would be identified with the Labor party that replacing her would be unwise for the would be pretenders to her throne.

The smaller parties (Kadima, Balad, Raam-Tael, United Torah Judaism, Hadash) must fight hard against the government for their very existence. Raising the minimum vote count from 2% to 4% as entry to Parliament would see them out of the legislative in the next elections according to their current votes. They got some support from Rubi Rivlin from Likud, which is a right wing liberal zionist and a prominent figure in the party. He was the Parliament chairman before being replaced by the party chairman to show that the status of presidency isn't in his reach (Presidential term for Peres is runing out soon, so the role will be up for a vote in this government).

TheIronRuler:

Xeorm:
So, one quick question: Why are the opposition so out for blood/vengeance?

.
The ultra-orthodox parties of Shas and United Torah Judaism have been booted out of the coalition because of Yair Lapid and his unholy alliance with Jewish Home. These two have been the tipping point of many governments before and used their position to bolster budgets for their sector and give them benefits. Their absence in the government coupled with the large budget deficit will put the bloated social budget for their sector on the chopping block (though it's relatively small compared to what is needed to fix the deficit).
Netanyahu could pull a Sharon and do what he did with Yair Lapid's father, which would be... kinda hilarious, but the haredi parties are going to be very active so they could either block decisions that hurt them or topple the government altogether so they could shuffle their cards. They could forgive Netagyahu for his betrayal, but they already set their sights on the settlements and the religious nationalist movement which had been under fire in the Haredi public sphere for over a month now...

The Labor party headed by its chairwoman is in grave political danger within her own party. At the moment she has to contend with disgruntled officials and colleagues that pushed her towards the coalition. She needs to prove herself on the political stage and grab some public attention for the next elections, so she would be identified with the Labor party that replacing her would be unwise for the would be pretenders to her throne.

The smaller parties (Kadima, Balad, Raam-Tael, United Torah Judaism, Hadash) must fight hard against the government for their very existence. Raising the minimum vote count from 2% to 4% as entry to Parliament would see them out of the legislative in the next elections according to their current votes. They got some support from Rubi Rivlin from Likud, which is a right wing liberal zionist and a prominent figure in the party. He was the Parliament chairman before being replaced by the party chairman to show that the status of presidency isn't in his reach (Presidential term for Peres is runing out soon, so the role will be up for a vote in this government).

Ah, I see. He effectively took away their traditional power. Sounds like fun times, as it's either a government that will do great change or explode.

Also, glad you enjoy the food.

Xeorm:

TheIronRuler:

Xeorm:
So, one quick question: Why are the opposition so out for blood/vengeance?

.
The ultra-orthodox parties of Shas and United Torah Judaism have been booted out of the coalition because of Yair Lapid and his unholy alliance with Jewish Home. These two have been the tipping point of many governments before and used their position to bolster budgets for their sector and give them benefits. Their absence in the government coupled with the large budget deficit will put the bloated social budget for their sector on the chopping block (though it's relatively small compared to what is needed to fix the deficit).
Netanyahu could pull a Sharon and do what he did with Yair Lapid's father, which would be... kinda hilarious, but the haredi parties are going to be very active so they could either block decisions that hurt them or topple the government altogether so they could shuffle their cards. They could forgive Netagyahu for his betrayal, but they already set their sights on the settlements and the religious nationalist movement which had been under fire in the Haredi public sphere for over a month now...

The Labor party headed by its chairwoman is in grave political danger within her own party. At the moment she has to contend with disgruntled officials and colleagues that pushed her towards the coalition. She needs to prove herself on the political stage and grab some public attention for the next elections, so she would be identified with the Labor party that replacing her would be unwise for the would be pretenders to her throne.

The smaller parties (Kadima, Balad, Raam-Tael, United Torah Judaism, Hadash) must fight hard against the government for their very existence. Raising the minimum vote count from 2% to 4% as entry to Parliament would see them out of the legislative in the next elections according to their current votes. They got some support from Rubi Rivlin from Likud, which is a right wing liberal zionist and a prominent figure in the party. He was the Parliament chairman before being replaced by the party chairman to show that the status of presidency isn't in his reach (Presidential term for Peres is runing out soon, so the role will be up for a vote in this government).

Ah, I see. He effectively took away their traditional power. Sounds like fun times, as it's either a government that will do great change or explode.

Also, glad you enjoy the food.

.
After the current Turkish apology fiasco, it'll definitely explode. Lieberman for prime minister, woo!
(cynicism)

@TheIronRuler
"A fair warning, I don't want to see this devolve into an off-topic argument."
Fair enough. But I'd just like to say that I don't particularly appreciate you responding to my post and then afterwards basically telling me not to argue back because I'd risk derailing your thread.

TheIronRuler:

The smaller parties (Kadima, Balad, Raam-Tael, United Torah Judaism, Hadash) must fight hard against the government for their very existence. Raising the minimum vote count from 2% to 4% as entry to Parliament would see them out of the legislative in the next elections according to their current votes. They got some support from Rubi Rivlin from Likud, which is a right wing liberal zionist and a prominent figure in the party. He was the Parliament chairman before being replaced by the party chairman to show that the status of presidency isn't in his reach (Presidential term for Peres is runing out soon, so the role will be up for a vote in this government).

Nah it won't(except for Kadima which was made irrelevant due to it's own internal issue), raising the election threshold is a good thing. 2% is way too low for parliamentary systems without a ranked ballot, especially for electoral systems that are not FPTP based.
What it will do is to force some parties to run on a single ballot, which is what most of them being doing every other election. Also most of the parties in question end up being in the same parliamentary agreement(coalition or opposition) any how. The only thing it will do is save the tax payer some money, raise the profile of inner-party politics(which will increase the competency of the candidates that end up on the ballot) and will increase the amount of minimum mandates allocated to a party to 5 instead of the 2 they get today.
In general the purpose of the election threshold is to produce a stable government and more importantly to solidify the separation of powers in party-list based systems.
A higher threshold means that smaller parties will actually become more relevant and influential within the legislative branch, while reducing their influence(AKA extortion tactics) over the government(the executive branch). This is why i have the feeling that anyone who is crying that such move is non-democratic is either doing being demagogic or have not attended a single civil studies class in high school.

Question: Why is the number of person in the parlament so small? Only 120 on a population of nearly 8 million.

Verbatim:

TheIronRuler:

The smaller parties (Kadima, Balad, Raam-Tael, United Torah Judaism, Hadash) must fight hard against the government for their very existence. Raising the minimum vote count from 2% to 4% as entry to Parliament would see them out of the legislative in the next elections according to their current votes. They got some support from Rubi Rivlin from Likud, which is a right wing liberal zionist and a prominent figure in the party. He was the Parliament chairman before being replaced by the party chairman to show that the status of presidency isn't in his reach (Presidential term for Peres is runing out soon, so the role will be up for a vote in this government).

Nah it won't(except for Kadima which was made irrelevant due to it's own internal issue), raising the election threshold is a good thing. 2% is way too low for parliamentary systems without a ranked ballot, especially for electoral systems that are not FPTP based.
What it will do is to force some parties to run on a single ballot, which is what most of them being doing every other election. Also most of the parties in question end up being in the same parliamentary agreement(coalition or opposition) any how. The only thing it will do is save the tax payer some money, raise the profile of inner-party politics(which will increase the competency of the candidates that end up on the ballot) and will increase the amount of minimum mandates allocated to a party to 5 instead of the 2 they get today.
In general the purpose of the election threshold is to produce a stable government and more importantly to solidify the separation of powers in party-list based systems.
A higher threshold means that smaller parties will actually become more relevant and influential within the legislative branch, while reducing their influence(AKA extortion tactics) over the government(the executive branch). This is why i have the feeling that anyone who is crying that such move is non-democratic is either doing being demagogic or have not attended a single civil studies class in high school.[/quote
Isn't the current amount of votes that the parties garnered last elections effectively disqualifying them from parliament? I do think that when put into consideration, the voters for those party will actually come out and vote to keep it afloat, but parties with 3% or 4% of the votes that stay in this situation will not pass the bar.

.
Do you mean that some parties will run on the same ticket? How could Balad, Raam-Tael and Hadash run on the same ballot? It's communists, secular nationalists and religious nationalists (though Raam-Tael isn't just that, it's like 4 differnet movements, one of which is of the southern Beduins).
You're right that this would only benefit future governments, and I eagerly expect more reforms to take place in this administration.
.

MacNille:
Question: Why is the number of person in the parlament so small? Only 120 on a population of nearly 8 million.

.
It has been this way ever since the establishment of the Parliament. The number have been static ever since, and it represents the percentage of votes for either party. I don't see a reason to increase it, maybe it could happen in a future government with 80+ parliament members (The Knesset establishment law is a basic law and requires a special majority to amend).
.

Skeleon:
@TheIronRuler
"A fair warning, I don't want to see this devolve into an off-topic argument."
Fair enough. But I'd just like to say that I don't particularly appreciate you responding to my post and then afterwards basically telling me not to argue back because I'd risk derailing your thread.

.
Sorry, I just had this crushing feeling it would descend into something ugly and I would have to read it while scrolling through my thread. I hope I didn't offend you... much. Sorry.

I just came by a sweet little gem by Hadag Nahash.

TheIronRuler:

Do you mean that some parties will run on the same ticket? How could Balad, Raam-Tael and Hadash run on the same ballot? It's communists, secular nationalists and religious nationalists (though Raam-Tael isn't just that, it's like 4 differnet movements, one of which is of the southern Beduins).
You're right that this would only benefit future governments, and I eagerly expect more reforms to take place in this administration.

They did that before, RA'AM TA'AL, and TA'AL HADASH have run on shared ballots...

MacNille:
Question: Why is the number of person in the parlament so small? Only 120 on a population of nearly 8 million.

120 is fine, 60K per seat is quite average, its twice as low as the UK with their bloated parliament, and not as bad as the US(over 3m per seat).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legislatures_by_country

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