Attempted Gun Burglary Tied To Journal News Gun Maps

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Lunar Shadow:

Notsomuch:
Why don't the people with their addresses listed just use their guns to repel the burglars? If owning a gun is such a great deterrent then these houses should be safest from burglars. The thieves should instead be targeting the houses that aren't listed. The law invalidates the concept of firearms as a deterrent since it assumes that people who own a firearm are incapable of defending themselves and that having a weapon significantly increases your chances of being targeted for crime. Bonus points since owning the weapon in the case of the burgled man did not in fact allow him to apprehend the criminal on his own, he had to wait for law enforcement which effectively dealt with the threat. Check and mate gun activists.

Cause people aren't home 24/7? They may not be in the house to actually do anything about it. This event is actually the opposite of what I expected to happen, as i expected burglars to use the map to pick gunless houses as easy marks.

A responsible gun owner takes their weapons with them when they go out so that they can stop random shootings.

Shock and Awe:
Firearms have much more killing power then any other common weapon, thats true. However most do not have the ability to exploit this.

Everybody who has at least a few fingers on one hand can use a firearm, so that's not true.

By contrast it takes a lot of determination to kill someone up close and personal with a knife. Killing is hard you know. Anyone can kill people with a firearm, but the less lethal weapons get, the harder it is to kill with them, and the less often it will occur.

Trying to kill someone with your bare hands Hollywood style takes all day for example. You're more likely to injure your thumbs than compress someone's throat enough to pull that off. I want to see people try to go on a killing spree like that... Headlines would change from "20 dead in crazy shooting" to "man arrested after inconveniencing and scaring three people".

Shock and Awe:
Also, if you're going to accuse someone of fleeing arguments, it'd help not to totally drop off arguments when you're losing.

That never happens with me. You may see me ignoring insults or not responding to things we've already seen a hundred times before. Some people in gun discussions are not in it for the discussion at all. For instance I recall when someone posted that he needed all sorts of guns, because on his farm, there's animals that can kill off an entire family unless they're armed like the military.
That's clearly not meant for discussion value, that's just stupid, purposely obtuse, and being a creature from Scandinavian folk tales the mention of which earns one mod wrath.

And you can hardly expect me to civilise every one of those. Just that I'm always right doesn't mean I can perform miracles. ;-)

Shock and Awe:
Incorrect my friend. The local police have confirmed there was a burglary at a home that was listed on the map and it appears they were trying to get the firearm. Police are currently investigating the link.
Source

"White Plains Public Safety Commissioner David Chong said there is so far no evidence to indicate that the home on Davis Avenue was targeted because it appeared on the Journal News interactive gun permit map."

Notsomuch:

Lunar Shadow:

Notsomuch:
Why don't the people with their addresses listed just use their guns to repel the burglars? If owning a gun is such a great deterrent then these houses should be safest from burglars. The thieves should instead be targeting the houses that aren't listed. The law invalidates the concept of firearms as a deterrent since it assumes that people who own a firearm are incapable of defending themselves and that having a weapon significantly increases your chances of being targeted for crime. Bonus points since owning the weapon in the case of the burgled man did not in fact allow him to apprehend the criminal on his own, he had to wait for law enforcement which effectively dealt with the threat. Check and mate gun activists.

Cause people aren't home 24/7? They may not be in the house to actually do anything about it. This event is actually the opposite of what I expected to happen, as i expected burglars to use the map to pick gunless houses as easy marks.

A responsible gun owner takes their weapons with them when they go out so that they can stop random shootings.

Or they leave them in their gun safes/with trigger locks in their home, cause not all guns are concealable/are for carrying and most people keep a gun IN THE HOUSE for the sole purpose of HOME DEFENSE. FOr example, while I have a CCL it is for the ease of transporting my pistol to the range as I don't need to lock it up every time I want to take it to the range as in the state of Alabama a pistol in a vehicle, even if it is in plain view, that isn't in a lock box is considered concealed.

Blablahb:

Shock and Awe:
Firearms have much more killing power then any other common weapon, thats true. However most do not have the ability to exploit this.

Everybody who has at least a few fingers on one hand can use a firearm, so that's not true.

Have you ever used a firearm before? If you have you'd know that one does not just pick up a rifle and start tagging targets at 100m and popping silhouettes at 40m with a pistol. It requires practice and possibly training.

Blablahb:

Shock and Awe:
Also, if you're going to accuse someone of fleeing arguments, it'd help not to totally drop off arguments when you're losing.

That never happens with me. You may see me ignoring insults or not responding to things we've already seen a hundred times before. Some people in gun discussions are not in it for the discussion at all. For instance I recall when someone posted that he needed all sorts of guns, because on his farm, there's animals that can kill off an entire family unless they're armed like the military.
That's clearly not meant for discussion value, that's just stupid, purposely obtuse, and being a creature from Scandinavian folk tales the mention of which earns one mod wrath.

And you can hardly expect me to civilise every one of those. Just that I'm always right doesn't mean I can perform miracles. ;-)

While I can't fault you from stepping away from hyperbole, there have been instances where you seemingly dropped off otherwise standard discussions. However thats off topic so it need not be dragged on further.

Blablahb:

Shock and Awe:
Incorrect my friend. The local police have confirmed there was a burglary at a home that was listed on the map and it appears they were trying to get the firearm. Police are currently investigating the link.
Source

"White Plains Public Safety Commissioner David Chong said there is so far no evidence to indicate that the home on Davis Avenue was targeted because it appeared on the Journal News interactive gun permit map."

You said it was a lie that it happened, I was putting someone saying it most certainly did. Were you specifically speaking of the link between the map and the break in?

Karma168:

Bentusi16:

So, to me punishing 99% of people of a culture because of the crimes of 1% of a culture is...I almost want to say tyranny but it doesn't quite match it. It's the same kind of thinking that leads to "Some black people are thieves, therefore all black people are thieves" or "Gypsys" or "Jews" or 'Catholics'. I can prove that there have been black people, jewish people, catholic people, who have committed crimes. Quite deadly crimes, probably.

Is it punishing the 99% of people who can drive perfectly well by making them prove they can because 1% of people shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel? I'm not saying take guns away from everyone, I'm saying make them prove they are responsible first. If 99% of gun users are responsible then they will have zero problem in getting one. That's no more a punishment than sitting your drivers test.

Imagine how much carnage we would see if we let 100% of people who want to drive have a licence, some people are so irresponsible and incapable of acting safely behind a wheel it is much better to make everyone prove they are responsible first. Same with guns.

See, that I agree with, but that's not what Blah is arguing and I wouldn't lump myself in with him if I could avoid it, as a piece of advice.

Lunar Shadow:

Notsomuch:

Lunar Shadow:
Cause people aren't home 24/7? They may not be in the house to actually do anything about it. This event is actually the opposite of what I expected to happen, as i expected burglars to use the map to pick gunless houses as easy marks.

A responsible gun owner takes their weapons with them when they go out so that they can stop random shootings.

Or they leave them in their gun safes/with trigger locks in their home, cause not all guns are concealable/are for carrying and most people keep a gun IN THE HOUSE for the sole purpose of HOME DEFENSE. FOr example, while I have a CCL it is for the ease of transporting my pistol to the range as I don't need to lock it up every time I want to take it to the range as in the state of Alabama a pistol in a vehicle, even if it is in plain view, that isn't in a lock box is considered concealed.

Good thing it was locked up then in this case because suddenly a gun for home defense becomes a hazard for the owner. Locking it up sort of defeats the purpose of having the weapon for defense, though; when are you going to have a chance to take the time when you're being threatened with a burglar? No, the best way to defend yourself would be to keep it under your pillow for easy access. I saw a convenient shotgun rack that attaches to your bedside. Having a gun seems kind of pointless as this case shows. He wasn't able to defend himself with the gun, the lawmaker suggests that simply having the gun makes him a target of crime and in the end Law enforcement solved the problem, as it should be.

Notsomuch:
Good thing it was locked up then in this case because suddenly a gun for home defense becomes a hazard for the owner. Locking it up sort of defeats the purpose of having the weapon for defense, though; when are you going to have a chance to take the time when you're being threatened with a burglar? No, the best way to defend yourself would be to keep it under your pillow for easy access. I saw a convenient shotgun rack that attaches to your bedside. Having a gun seems kind of pointless as this case shows. He wasn't able to defend himself with the gun, the lawmaker suggests that simply having the gun makes him a target of crime and in the end Law enforcement solved the problem, as it should be.

There are things some people have to defend themselves against that aren't burglars. When my family was building our house, my dad would sometimes visit the building site after dark (long story actually, someone had stolen some of our building materials from the site so every night he would go up and put boards with nails in them in the driveway so that if someone tried to steal again they wouldn't get very far). The house is surrounded by woods, and one night when he did this he heard a bit of a growl. He paused, and went back to laying down the boards. When he moved forward, he heard another growl a lot closer and a lot louder, and at that point he realized it was a bobcat. He put the rest of the boards down where he was and got back to his truck...slowly. Very slowly.

After that, he never went to the site after dark without his 9MM pistol (he didn't have a shotgun at the time, which would have been more effective against a bobcat, at least when having an encounter like that).

So, yeah. People who live near wooded areas or on farms have some things to protect themselves against, and it most often isn't people.

Also, to address the issue of the gun being locked up, some people just collect guns. Not everybody who owns a gun is looking to defend against burglars. Some people hunt, or just like to shoot for fun, or just like the look of them. And for people who are looking to defend themselves, if they own more than one gun they aren't going to have them all ready and loaded. That isn't just stupid, it's impractical. They'll have the pistol in the drawer ready to go, and their nice shotgun or hunting rifle will be stored elsewhere. Mostly because it's easier to defend yourself in that sort of a situation with a pistol than with a rifle, and if something's going to get stolen they would rather it be the $300 pistol than the $3000 hunting rifle.

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