So, My Family Thinks the Sandy School Shooting Was Set Up By The Government To Create Stricter Laws.

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Yea.....I don't know what to say. My brother and Mother believe it was set up to create a call for stricter gun laws. They have never been like this before. Please help me figure out how to explain how crazy this is.

Go out, and buy about 250 rolls on tinfoil, leaving half in each their rooms, and slap some pictures of black helicopters on the walls while you're at it.

...I'm sorry, I don't have a rational response. Try to be cool and slow, and explain, I suppose, but...ugh. Just be persistent. I've no idea.

And this conspiracy came from Florida (if not for Florida then WTFIWWY may be more infrequent).

Well, don't tell them that the very same day as the shooting the US decided to send 400 troops to Turkey.

You can try and tell them the truth. This incident was not planned by the government but they are using it for political gain. The media did not set up the incident but they are blowing it out of proportion. In other words, the Government and media are manipulating the incident (which makes them assholes) but they are not evil. In other words, instead of trying to blow their views out of the water try and modify them to a more reasonable position.

It's understandable. There is next to nothing known about Lanza for the past 3 years and everyone who was following the news coverage that day saw the story change several times. At first the long gun was left in the trunk, and the shooting was said to have happened with 2-4 hanguns (also kept changing) the next day they're talking to a medical examiner and he says it was the long gun, and everyone just starts reporting it that way and pretending the coverage of police taking a rifle out the trunk of the car yesterday never happened.

I'm not saying it was a hoax, but god damn there was some awfully sloppy reporting and I still don't believe the facts as they are reported are correct.

Point out that Obama can't even get his healthcare initiatives passed without lots of compromises and trouble stemming from them, then provide a list of the amount of people needed to orchestrate something like this.

Here is an idea, listen to them.

Have them go through all the reasons and evidence provided.

Once you done that, break apart their arguments. Point out the logical holes in their arguments, find out what else the "evidence" might be saying, how many people the government would have to keep quiet and how much money they would have to expand just to keep this plot secret.

If they continue to ignore you, then you can say you tried your best, but can't argue to crazy people.

Xukog:
Yea.....I don't know what to say. My brother and Mother believe it was set up to create a call for stricter gun laws. They have never been like this before. Please help me figure out how to explain how crazy this is.

Really depends man, I can see why that comes across as worrying to people with common sense, you in this case.

But what is your primary point here with the topic? Do you want ammunition to refute what they said as a crazy political idea, or do you observe a pattern of statements like this which makes you worry about their mental stability?

Shaoken:
Point out that Obama can't even get his healthcare initiatives passed without lots of compromises and trouble stemming from them, then provide a list of the amount of people needed to orchestrate something like this.

Bad comparison. People that rabbidly conservative truly believe the world will explode if anyone except the truly rich have acces to healthcare, so the compromise for them just means that's the reason the obamapocalypse hasn't happened just yet, but he's still the anti-christ. ;-)

I have a co-worker like that. Not over this shooting, but there was a shooting last year that he held this opinion. He owns a semi-auto AKM with a 75 round drum mag, a bipod, a red dot sight, and its all repainted black. How he managed to afford that motherf***er while working minimum wage and being a good Catholic and giving 10% of his earnings to the church is beyond me. I dont really give him too much of my time though. I have him on record as saying "If Romney wins, I am joining the Marines. If Obama wins, I will be joining the militia." (still waiting on him to stop frying chicken in the deli and join that anti-government militia), as well as comparing abortion to the Holocaust[1], and saying "I am a Libertarain, and I think only bad things should be illegal." then in the next breath saying "Rick Santorum was the best man in the race and we would been a great president. Im serious." (Libertarain+Rick MotherF***ing Santorum=Does not compute!!)

[1] I did actually speak out against him on this one and told him "Ok. I agree with you that abortions are a bad thing and that they should be illegal after a certain point that can be agreed upon by both sides of the debate.....but dont make that comparison again. All you will do is offend people and turn them away from what you are trying to say, thereby shooting yourself in the foot." I douht he listened.

One is a coincidence.
Two is an anomaly.
Three is a trend.
Four is get your god damn tin foil hats on, kids.

Okay, I've been on /k/ far too long. I know this rash is spree shootings is because the media over saturates everything, but some of their arguments make sense, even though they're incredibly outlandish.

BOOM headshot65:
He owns a semi-auto AKM with a 75 round drum mag, a bipod, a red dot sight, and its all repainted black.

You smack him, you go find him and smack him right now.

You don't do that sort of thing to an AK. Just, no. Ew.

Just show them this video.

"And the good news is that will only involve swearing another 15 or so people into perpetual silence for the rest of their lives..."

Honestly, I think anyone who believes this conspiracy junk is a strange combo of stupid and paranoid.

Blablahb:

Xukog:
Yea.....I don't know what to say. My brother and Mother believe it was set up to create a call for stricter gun laws. They have never been like this before. Please help me figure out how to explain how crazy this is.

Really depends man, I can see why that comes across as worrying to people with common sense, you in this case.

But what is your primary point here with the topic? Do you want ammunition to refute what they said as a crazy political idea, or do you observe a pattern of statements like this which makes you worry about their mental stability?

Shaoken:
Point out that Obama can't even get his healthcare initiatives passed without lots of compromises and trouble stemming from them, then provide a list of the amount of people needed to orchestrate something like this.

Bad comparison. People that rabbidly conservative truly believe the world will explode if anyone except the truly rich have acces to healthcare, so the compromise for them just means that's the reason the obamapocalypse hasn't happened just yet, but he's still the anti-christ. ;-)

To answer your first question,it's more the latter then anything. It just took me off guard,because I haven't heard anything like this from them before.My mother seems to be split on if she believes what my brother told her after I talked to her a bit,but my brother is....stubborn,He claims some video on youtube explains it all,and he considers the video to be absolute truth. I'm not sure I should even try to talk to him,because any attempt to use logic with him tends to be responded to with insults,and repeating of his opinions.

I am without words, my words have failed me.

Questions,
-Why set up something that happens fairly regularly anyway?
-Do they really think that a government conspiracy would not have a single person who would blow the whistle on the intentional deaths of more than twenty american children?
-How would they 'set this up'?
-Why not just use one of the other many mass shootings in the US?
-Why not stage manage to entire event to remove any ambiguity of it (eg have the shooter use their own weapon as opposed to a family members)?
-Why would they not prep the ground first, have it occur the day before a big debate on firearm legislation, or in the hometown of a pro-gun lobbyist or have the shooter be a member of the NRA or a victim be a NRA family member?
-Why is your family so stupid?

Smagmuck_:

You smack him, you go find him and smack him right now.

But I dont work again until Friday. D:

And its 10:30pm here. DD:

I find that asking a conspiracy nut what the purpose is behind the government doing this.

If Obama orchestrated a mass killing of children to get gun laws passed... why? Is it because of his idealogy that semi auto's shouldn't be sold? That makes no sense because a president willing to kill over 20 children probably doesn't give a damn about his populace enough to care about gun laws. Or maybe he is trying to take over the US with his socialist ideas if that where the case I have two arguments for that one if he was going to take over the US he would have already started doing it and a couple extra semi-auto's won't stop the full might of the US military and two the US military would never agree to it over half of the military(in every branch I believe) is a red state voter. The government has nothing to gain from this kind of action.

Xukog:
To answer your first question,it's more the latter then anything. It just took me off guard,because I haven't heard anything like this from them before.My mother seems to be split on if she believes what my brother told her after I talked to her a bit,but my brother is....stubborn,He claims some video on youtube explains it all,and he considers the video to be absolute truth. I'm not sure I should even try to talk to him,because any attempt to use logic with him tends to be responded to with insults,and repeating of his opinions.

That must be really hard to hear coming from your own family, but I'll try to answer best I can given what I know of what makes people tick, no offense is meant at any time.

You said they won't listen (right?), so if they're not open to hearing that what they imagine isn't true, perhaps a matter of picking your battles? If they're just going to insult you if you point out how what they believe isn't true, there's nothing that can be achieved. I've dealt with people with heavily deluded ideas (example: "Watching that man on television will make you become homosexual") on many occasions because of where I'm from, but what I learned back then is that the absolute fringes, the people with highly illogical ideas, just can't be convinced. Often they 'fix' being proved wrong by taking offense and projecting that onto the person who proved them wrong. Sometimes someone can't be convinced and dropping the issue while writing them off as just not sensible is the best option for one's personal relationship with them.

But if you want to try and change their mind anyway: The trick there is that their views weren't formed from logic in the first place, so combating them with logical arguments is no use. They imagined the shooting being a conspiracy, for a reason that's somewhere in their other convictions. It's not because they are aware of facts that logically lead them to conclude the Sandy Hook Massacre was a conspiracy. You're dealing with an idea born out of irrational fears.

In this particular case, I'd say that it's a paranoid fear of "the big guvernment is coming for my guns", which you hear more often among conservative American people who are opposed to legislation to stop gun violence. I'm going on a stereotype of rabbid gun owners here, which I put together from observing their given motivations and their opinions, so if you know better about your family, fill in what you know instead of that. Basically, if you want to attack that idea the shooting is a conspiracy, you need to attack the reasons that made them imagine such a conspiracy theory in the first place. And typically, in a case like you described, that's ussually a number out motivations out of: a pathological distrust of the government, an idea of insecurity or being persecuted, the idea that 'people are coming for you', or placing one's hobby (shooting) above all other concerns in a way that even people being killed can't move them.

Short summary: often adressing irrational ideas by where they come from, rather than the ideas themselves, works best.

BOOM headshot65:
But I dont work again until Friday. D:

And its 10:30pm here. DD:

Find him Friday and buy that rifle off him.

Adopt it to a family that will love and cherish it with wood furniture, a good cleaning and surplus magazines from the motherland and feed it good, non-corrosive ammunition. ಠ_ಠ

There's no way that our government would ask a kid to shoot his mother, his principal and his fellow classmates like Lanza did. Our government has done some super shady things, but I don't see this. Sometimes you have to let your parents think what they want to think. You certainly want to respect them, but you don't have to believe what they believe on this issue.

I feel for you. It's super hard to explain things to family sometimes. This may be a reaction to the whole situation. Let it blow over and they may change their rationale (hopefully).

Remind them that the White House can't even keep a blowjob secret, never mind a conspiracy to enact gun control.

DJjaffacake:
Remind them that the White House can't even keep a blowjob secret, never mind a conspiracy to enact gun control.

quite.

Humans are actually incredibly bad at anything even approaching the levels of conspiracy we construct as fiction.

most people can barely even keep a simple 3rd party secret to themselves.

Smagmuck_:

BOOM headshot65:
But I dont work again until Friday. D:

And its 10:30pm here. DD:

Find him Friday and buy that rifle off him.

Adopt it to a family that will love and cherish it with wood furniture, a good cleaning and surplus magazines from the motherland and feed it good, non-corrosive ammunition. ಠ_ಠ

[snark]Oh, well then it certainly wont be me who will adopt it. Because I hate those red commie piece of shit weapons. I could give it to my brother, he strangly likes those russkie pieces of shit. But hes only 16, so that may not work. As for me, if it wasnt made in the Good Ole US of A, the Greatest Goddamn country on the planet, Im not interested.[/snark]

On a more serious note, I dought if it is the real deal, and not just some cheap knockoff. When I was talking to him about how I want to get a Winchester "Trenchgun" w/ trenchknife bayonet, which I am not sure how hard it is to find, and he tried to point me to a website were I could by a "trenchgun" for about $100. Of course, It wasnt made by Winchester, and if I want a Winchester "Trenchgun", I would want it to be made by WINCHESTER, not some knockoff.

kill them, Xukog
kill them all

Honestly i think there is nothing you can do to help them.
You could try to be persistant but most likley will not work.
They have basically reached the crazy event horizon.

Well, you know.
Such people exist.
And they have to be the family of somebody...
Lucky you.

I'm really not sure what to recommend here. Point to governmental incompetence, maybe? Point out that these kinds of massacres have been happening for many years, long before Obama took office? Including during Republican presidents etc.? I doubt much'll get through to them, to be honest.

Smagmuck_:

BOOM headshot65:
But I dont work again until Friday. D:

And its 10:30pm here. DD:

Find him Friday and buy that rifle off him.

Adopt it to a family that will love and cherish it with wood furniture, a good cleaning and surplus magazines from the motherland and feed it good, non-corrosive ammunition. ಠ_ಠ

Why do I fell that this post should be accompanied by the music to this commercial?

I know someone who said the same thing (more so about the more recent shooting). I just try to ignore it and move on with my day thinking "well, I may be paranoid, but I'm not as paranoid as that guy".

Assassin Xaero:
...thinking "well, I may be paranoid, but I'm not as paranoid as that guy".

That's what they want you to believe.

Something about this whole case does indeed stink, but I can't quite put my finger on it. I think it's a combination of Lanza being totally off the grid for the past three years along with the total suppression of any kind of dissent over the official story. If I were you, I'd just stay quiet and watch. Your family might be more right than you think.

Ravinoff:
Something about this whole case does indeed stink, but I can't quite put my finger on it. I think it's a combination of Lanza being totally off the grid for the past three years along with the total suppression of any kind of dissent over the official story. If I were you, I'd just stay quiet and watch. Your family might be more right than you think.

What? Are you... serious?

Well it's quite obvious. The Aliens made him do it.

Skeleon:

Assassin Xaero:
...thinking "well, I may be paranoid, but I'm not as paranoid as that guy".

That's what they want you to believe.

...

...

Excuse me, I need to go find where we keep the tin foil in my office...

Actually I suggest giving them an even bigger conspiracy as a counter:

1) Every-time a massacre like this occurs in the US there is a discussion around gun-control.
2) The NRA respond with concerns that the govt will take away people's guns.
3) In response to that the gun sales sky-rocket.
4) But the 2nd amendment isn't repealed and hardly any substantial laws get passed.

(those above premises are, by in large, true)

Conclusion; the gun companies are the ones that always benefit from these shootings. Therefore they are the most likely candidates for starting the shooting as they know they will get increased sales (which they are currently).

Talked to my mother again today and she admitted after thinking it over more it's a load of crap. Don't think I'm gonna bother talking to my brother because 1.He's the kind of person who once he's made up his mind on something,it's futile to talk to him. and 2. He hasn't brought it up again,and there is pretty much no chance he will do something stupid as result, so I suppose it is not worth the effort.

stop the presses, a horrible event happens and people think the government is involved!

This has never happened!

(looks at Pearl Harbor)
(looks at the assassination of JFK)
(looks at 9/11)

oh.

The only conspiracy I'm waiting for is when someone left pretends to be stereotypical right-winger goes on a shooting spree purely to discredit the right and their guns.

Your family probably isn't crazy, but they're certainly pretty stupid if they actually believe that. Just ignore them.

Xukog:
Yea.....I don't know what to say. My brother and Mother believe it was set up to create a call for stricter gun laws. They have never been like this before. Please help me figure out how to explain how crazy this is.

In a nation of nigh 400 million people, with easy access to guns, which is more likely?

1. That 1 person did a terrible thing.

2. That MANY, MANY people did a terrible thing, and then successfully covered it up?

If the government wanted a massacre as an excuse for stricter gun control, they wouldn't have to frame it. All they'd have to do is wait. Which, frankly, makes their argument for them.

Use their exact same coincidences and correlations to argue that it's a bigger conspiracy.

Like: the Illuminati needed the US to ban guns so that they would gain an edge over the Templars when they go to war with the Free Masons at the behest of the New World Order. Maybe show them how nutso the idea that Sandy Hook was a false flag is.

Go for broke. Throw in a Leprechaun.

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