British woman gets death sentence

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21137649

Heres to hoping that the government can do something for her,
Just another casualty of the war on drugs,
Why any country would enforce the death penalty for smuggling cocaine is beyond me
A lot of the violence centred around drugs come from the fact that only criminal gangs are involved in the distribution

I genuinely like the Judge's ruling, going solely off that article (Because I know literally nothing about the case itself, and don't presume to know anything about it).

But the judges said there were no mitigating circumstances and the defendant did not appear to care about the consequences of her actions.

Bolded the important part. If the convicted shows neither remorse nor willingness to reform, then it's sensible to dispose of them and be done with it as other venues would be a waste of time and money in that case.

Edit: For the OP; it's a two way street. If the war on drugs wasn't a thing, then yes, people wouldn't die/be arrested over it. Conversely, if nobody transported/used illicit drugs, then people wouldn't die or be arrested over it either (Nor would the war on drugs be a thing anymore)

I'd be surprised if the UK government could do anything, she's not the first Westerner this has happened to and she won't be the last. Whenever something like this happens I just can't believe anyone would still be that stupid or that desperate to try anything to do with drugs in Southeast Asia.

adamsaccount:
Why any country would enforce the death penalty for smuggling cocaine is beyond me

The way I've heard it put to me is that the Southeast Asian countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, etc. see drug smugglers and drug dealers the same as murderers, since in the government's view they're responsible for countless deaths and lives ruined by addiction. Thus drug smuggling penalties are more along the lines of what you would expect for murder.

I don't even think people deserve the death penalty for murder so there's no way in hell that I'd think anyone should be punished with anything close to that severity for smuggling drugs, but that's what Southeast Asia is like. It's a tragedy. Don't go there if you don't have to, and for Christ's sake, whatever you do, don't get involved in drugs if you do go there.

ten.to.ten:

The way I've heard it put to me is that the Southeast Asian countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, etc. see drug smugglers and drug dealers the same as murderers, since in the government's view they're responsible for countless deaths and lives ruined by addiction. Thus drug smuggling penalties are more along the lines of what you would expect for murder.

Makes sense, I'm sure they don't appreciate the attitude that some Western tourist have that they can do whatever they want in South East Asia. I mean Hangover II was a fun movie but its not something a person should try to reenact.

OP: From the article...

Sandiford, from Gloucestershire, has insisted she was set up and coerced into bringing the drugs to the island.

What? Which is it, was she coerced or set up?

Ill agree that smuggling 5 kilos of cocaine into a conservative country probably isnt a smart move, but the way I see it people are going to get it and use it somehow anyway, so the government might as well regulate it to keep as many people safe as possible. You would also avoid people being coerced into becoming drug mules like this

In my opinion executing someone for something like this should lead to UN action. Id love to see the British government demand that either she is released or we bomb this shit out of them. Its not going to happen but to me that seems like the only sensible reaction to something like this. If the governments not going to protect its people from shit like this then whats the point to it.

I accept that you have to take responsibility for your actions but everyone fucks up and theres no need to kill them for it. If she had shot up a nursery school or something like that maybe id feel differently but all she was doing was moving around a substance that makes you high.

ten.to.ten:
Whenever something like this happens I just can't believe anyone would still be that stupid or that desperate to try anything to do with drugs in Southeast Asia.

Money. 5kg is like $100,000 stateside. I can't even imagine how much it'd be worth in a country with laws as draconian as those in Southeast Asia. (Her story about just being a mule was prolly legit, though, so she wouldn't have gotten more than a "small" fee. Still, a ton of money.)

Demand for drugs is remarkably inelastic. When the supply of most normal consumer goods shrinks, prices go up and demand goes down, and they meet somewhere in the middle. But with drugs, the price just skyrockets. So people who normally wouldn't mess with trafficking are drawn in by the ungodly profit, especially since while it's a huge risk, it takes almost no effort.

Edit:

adamsaccount:
In my opinion executing someone for something like this should lead to UN action. Id love to see the British government demand that either she is released or we bomb this shit out of them. Its not going to happen but to me that seems like the only sensible reaction to something like this.

I don't see how threatening to bomb the third most populous country in the world over some random drug runner qualifies as "sensible."

adamsaccount:
but the way I see it people are going to get it and use it somehow anyway

That's even more reason for them to go ahead with it. People are going to murder other people regardless, but it's senseless to suggest that murder be made legal to prevent crime from occurring. Something like that happened in America at one point, where a Presidential candidate promised to lower crime in the country, then when he was elected, he proceeded to remove a ton of laws, so crime went down simply because what people were doing was no longer a crime.

Anyway, because people will break the law is not a good reason to change the law. If Indonesia executes drug smugglers (Even though executions aren't actually that common there), then they will eventually run out of drug smugglers even if nobody stops breaking the law for fear of being killed themselves because they'll all be dead.

bananafishtoday:

ten.to.ten:
Whenever something like this happens I just can't believe anyone would still be that stupid or that desperate to try anything to do with drugs in Southeast Asia.

Money. 5kg is like $100,000 stateside. I can't even imagine how much it'd be worth in a country with laws as draconian as those in Southeast Asia. (Her story about just being a mule was prolly legit, though, so she wouldn't have gotten more than a "small" fee. Still, a ton of money.)

Demand for drugs is remarkably inelastic. When the supply of most normal consumer goods shrinks, prices go up and demand goes down, and they meet somewhere in the middle. But with drugs, the price just skyrockets. So people who normally wouldn't mess with trafficking are drawn in by the ungodly profit, especially since while it's a huge risk, it takes almost no effort.

Edit:

adamsaccount:
In my opinion executing someone for something like this should lead to UN action. Id love to see the British government demand that either she is released or we bomb this shit out of them. Its not going to happen but to me that seems like the only sensible reaction to something like this.

I don't see how threatening to bomb the third most populous country in the world over some random drug runner qualifies as "sensible."

Its facing violence with violence. Their government is going to brutally kill one of our people and in my opinion we should give them absolute hell for that. Weve gone to war over imaginary weapons, and the threat of this alone would probably be enough to secure her release, if the Indonesian government knows whats good for them. If they didnt release i see no problem with bombing their government or judiciary buildings. This is bordering on an act of war in my opinion. Not the civilian centres as they had nothing to do with this but at least make the people responsible pay.

@kopikatsu, people always have and will take drugs, its not something legislation can stop, infact most of this legislation has only come about in the past 100 years or so. In itself no, youre correct, because people will break the law is not a good reason to remove it, but the fact that breaking this particular law only effects yourself is to me the reason, you should be able to do what you like with your own body, its the only thing you really own and consequently to rob someone of their life effects the other person immensely, whereas taking cocaine does not. This is why you should legalise all substances but not murder. Its as much about freedom as it is about getting high

Life sentence is pretty harsh.

The only reason they do it because they want to discourage people from doing it.

But hey, some washed up deadbeat is always going to say "yes" to a couple grand. All you gotta do is carry some package with you, right? They'll never catch you.

adamsaccount:
Its facing violence with violence. Theyre going to brutally kill one of our people and in my opinion we should give them absolute hell for that. Weve gone to war over imaginary weapons, and the threat of this would probably be enough to secure her release. If they didnt i see no problem with bombing their government buildings. Not the civilian centres as they had nothing to do with this but at make the people responsible pay for this.

So... you'd advocate taking out the Indonesian government because they sentenced one drug mule to death? Hundreds, maybe thousands of deaths when you include the random bureaucrats, clerks, etc in these buildings. Nevermind that toppling Indonesia's secular government by force would likely cause enormous blowback, considering the radical, militant religious groups that exist within the country. All because some lady tried to smuggle some blow in her suitcase?

If the US sentenced a British national to death, would you advocate bombing Washington DC? Assuming the UK still had the death penalty, if they sentenced an Indonesian to death, would you be ok with them bombing the Houses of Parliament? "Oh well, I understand. They have to protect their people. It's only sensible."

bananafishtoday:

adamsaccount:
Its facing violence with violence. Theyre going to brutally kill one of our people and in my opinion we should give them absolute hell for that. Weve gone to war over imaginary weapons, and the threat of this would probably be enough to secure her release. If they didnt i see no problem with bombing their government buildings. Not the civilian centres as they had nothing to do with this but at make the people responsible pay for this.

So... you'd advocate taking out the Indonesian government because they sentenced one drug mule to death? Hundreds, maybe thousands of deaths when you include the random bureaucrats, clerks, etc in these buildings. Nevermind that toppling Indonesia's secular government by force would likely cause enormous blowback, considering the radical, militant religious groups that exist within the country. All because some lady tried to smuggle some blow in her suitcase?

If the US sentenced a British national to death, would you advocate bombing Washington DC? Assuming the UK still had the death penalty, if they sentenced an Indonesian to death, would you be ok with them bombing the Houses of Parliament? "Oh well, I understand. They have to protect their people. It's only sensible."

It depends on what the death sentence was for. If we gave an american the death sentence for smuggling cocaine then yes i think they should probably bomb some sense into us because thats just fucking mental, hell i might even do it myself, take out some bastard politicians (note-if mi5 are reading this i definetely wouldn't). However, great britain has never sentenced an american to death as far as im aware, we just wouldnt, because were better than that (in some respects) Not to sound like a patriot but atleast we dont murder people for breaking the law

However I think that america holds enough sway with the british government that it wouldnt come to that

This is an outrage. I believe the British goverment should do something, drugs or not. Responding to violence with more violence is at the very base a barbaric reaction.

Well if barbarism is what they work by then why not pay them back in kind? Sure every action has a consequence but so does an execution

don't do the crime if you aren't prepared to face the consequences.

i dunno what airy fairy universe you guys inhabit but that's 5 kilos class A ffs.

do you have any idea how much pain and suffering and abject human misery i could cause in the pursuit of profit with that much coke ?

lemmie tell you something i know crack and heroin dealers and know them far better than i'd like. it came with the territory growing up where i did in the 80s. and i'd put the gun to their head and pull the trigger myself without batting a fucking eyelid given half the chance (just like the Chinese).

i don't even count the dealers of such drugs as human. it's one of my few absolute prejudices but then i've seen their work and how they go about it...and imo they forfeit membership of the human race via their entirely deliberate actions to enslave others via life destroying addiction in the pursuit of monetary gain...and that's from someone who was a raver, a bouncer and a rave promoter in the 90s ;|

every mule ever always says "i didn't know it was there". it's the standard line. even when "there" is every orifice in their f'ing body. if you think women (of any age) are somehow automatically an innocent party you're seriously naive.

adamsaccount:
Well if barbarism is what they work by then why not pay them back in kind? Sure every action has a consequence but so does an execution

Because that kind of approach was abandoned when we realized that a single life is not worth security of a nation.

Sleekit:
don't do the crime if you aren't prepared to face the consequences.

i dunno what airy fairy universe you guys inhabit but that's 5 kilos class A ffs.

do you have any idea how much pain and suffering and abject human misery i could cause in the pursuit of profit with that much coke ?

lemmie tell you something i know crack and heroin dealers, know them far better than i'd like, and i'd put the gun to their head and pull the trigger myself without batting a fucking eyelid given half the chance (just like the Chinese).

i don't even count the dealers of such drugs as human. imo they forfeit that via their entirely deliberate actions to enslave others in the name of profit.

and every mule ever always says "i didn't know it was there". it's the standard line. even when "there" is every orifice in their f'ing body. its like saying "no" to the question "have you been drinking sir ?..".

Youre saying that because someone made a bad choice they deserve to be killed for it, not given another chance, just wiped off the face of the earth forever, because they brought something into the country that the government(because of course they now whats best for every single one of us) decides were not allowed to have. This isnt gun running, this is a recreational drug. No government should have that right.

What has happened here is that an inconspicious looking woman with no prior criminal record was offered a lot of money to break the law and greed got the better of her.

If you really think she deserves this then im not gonna argue, thats your point of view but i violently disagree.

The Gentleman:

adamsaccount:
Well if barbarism is what they work by then why not pay them back in kind? Sure every action has a consequence but so does an execution

Because that kind of approach was abandoned when we realized that a single life is not worth security of a nation.

Proving the point that you cant execute members of that nation for a non violent crime may be worth it though

Also abject misery is not a feeling I associated with cocaine.

adamsaccount:

bananafishtoday:

ten.to.ten:
Whenever something like this happens I just can't believe anyone would still be that stupid or that desperate to try anything to do with drugs in Southeast Asia.

Money. 5kg is like $100,000 stateside. I can't even imagine how much it'd be worth in a country with laws as draconian as those in Southeast Asia. (Her story about just being a mule was prolly legit, though, so she wouldn't have gotten more than a "small" fee. Still, a ton of money.)

Demand for drugs is remarkably inelastic. When the supply of most normal consumer goods shrinks, prices go up and demand goes down, and they meet somewhere in the middle. But with drugs, the price just skyrockets. So people who normally wouldn't mess with trafficking are drawn in by the ungodly profit, especially since while it's a huge risk, it takes almost no effort.

Edit:

adamsaccount:
In my opinion executing someone for something like this should lead to UN action. Id love to see the British government demand that either she is released or we bomb this shit out of them. Its not going to happen but to me that seems like the only sensible reaction to something like this.

I don't see how threatening to bomb the third most populous country in the world over some random drug runner qualifies as "sensible."

Its facing violence with violence. Their government is going to brutally kill one of our people and in my opinion we should give them absolute hell for that. Weve gone to war over imaginary weapons, and the threat of this alone would probably be enough to secure her release, if the Indonesian government knows whats good for them. If they didnt release i see no problem with bombing their government or judiciary buildings. This is bordering on an act of war in my opinion. Not the civilian centres as they had nothing to do with this but at least make the people responsible pay.

@kopikatsu, people always have and will take drugs, its not something legislation can stop, infact most of this legislation has only come about in the past 100 years or so. In itself no, youre correct, because people will break the law is not a good reason to remove it, but the fact that breaking this particular law only effects yourself is to me the reason, you should be able to do what you like with your own body, its the only thing you really own and consequently to rob someone of their life effects the other person immensely, whereas taking cocaine does not. This is why you should legalise all substances but not murder. Its as much about freedom as it is about getting high

Oh look, UK military chest thumping. As if they have anything to boast about while in the anti-war EU.

The fact of the matter is drug gangs use the money for murder. So any smuggler would be charged the same as murder because the money goes towards weapons that kills people.

In Latin America, they have even more reason to kill you because, to them, giving money to drug cartels is like giving money to Al Quaeda led by HITLER, who use the money to pay for guns to take pot shots at elementary schools, and even American politicians. When they murder innocent children for fun, the ones that give them money don't exactly get sympathy.

Drug gangs are not welcome anywhere, and by no means is it black and white about "freedom."

TlDR: Get over it. Its another drug mule that was too stupid and got caught for it. Giving money to murderers, no less. Her being "British" does no mean she can nullify all foreign laws. British Imperialism is dead, and this isn't 1776 anymore.

Even the US, the most "arrogant" country, says you should know the damn foreign laws and abide by them regardless if you agree or not. Who is to say your sovereignty nullifies everything else?

By your logic, I can do whatever I want in the UK and no one can say anything unless they ant to deal with the American military.

Ultratwinkie:

adamsaccount:

bananafishtoday:
Money. 5kg is like $100,000 stateside. I can't even imagine how much it'd be worth in a country with laws as draconian as those in Southeast Asia. (Her story about just being a mule was prolly legit, though, so she wouldn't have gotten more than a "small" fee. Still, a ton of money.)

Demand for drugs is remarkably inelastic. When the supply of most normal consumer goods shrinks, prices go up and demand goes down, and they meet somewhere in the middle. But with drugs, the price just skyrockets. So people who normally wouldn't mess with trafficking are drawn in by the ungodly profit, especially since while it's a huge risk, it takes almost no effort.

Edit:
I don't see how threatening to bomb the third most populous country in the world over some random drug runner qualifies as "sensible."

Its facing violence with violence. Their government is going to brutally kill one of our people and in my opinion we should give them absolute hell for that. Weve gone to war over imaginary weapons, and the threat of this alone would probably be enough to secure her release, if the Indonesian government knows whats good for them. If they didnt release i see no problem with bombing their government or judiciary buildings. This is bordering on an act of war in my opinion. Not the civilian centres as they had nothing to do with this but at least make the people responsible pay.

@kopikatsu, people always have and will take drugs, its not something legislation can stop, infact most of this legislation has only come about in the past 100 years or so. In itself no, youre correct, because people will break the law is not a good reason to remove it, but the fact that breaking this particular law only effects yourself is to me the reason, you should be able to do what you like with your own body, its the only thing you really own and consequently to rob someone of their life effects the other person immensely, whereas taking cocaine does not. This is why you should legalise all substances but not murder. Its as much about freedom as it is about getting high

Oh look, UK military chest thumping. As if they have anything to boast about while in the anti-war EU.

The fact of the matter is drug gangs use the money for murder. So any smuggler would be charged the same as murder because the money goes towards weapons that kills people.

In Latin America, they have even more reason to kill you because, to them, giving money to drug cartels is like giving money to Al Quaeda led by HITLER, who use the money to pay for guns to take pot shots at elementary schools, and even American politicians. When they murder innocent children for fun, the ones that give them money don't exactly get sympathy.

Drug gangs are not welcome anywhere, and by no means is it black and white about "freedom."

TlDR: Get over it. Its another drug mule that was too stupid and got caught for it. Giving money to murderers, no less. Her being "British" does no mean she can nullify all foreign laws. British Imperialism is dead, and this isn't 1776 anymore.

Even the US, the most "arrogant" country, says you should know the damn foreign laws and abide by them regardless if you agree or not. Who is to say your sovereignty nullifies everything else?

By your logic, I can do whatever I want in the UK and no one can say anything unless they ant to deal with the American military.

I dont believe in imperialism and i dont think that britain is a powerful country so you can drop that shit. However i do believe that the fact that the money goes to criminal gangs who murder is because of the illegal status of these drugs and as such this just seems so fucked up to me that i wont get over it. This is a cause i believe in and when a woman is going to be murdered because of fucked up policies then the least i can do is vent my frustrations on a forum. Honestly i feel bad that theres nothing meaningful i can do to help

edit: you could do what you liked in Britain, genocide mass murder, whatever and we wouldnt execute you. If an american citizen was going to be put to death in britain for drugs smuggling i have a feeling the government would pull some strings and failng that god knows what

adamsaccount:
Well if barbarism is what they work by then why not pay them back in kind? Sure every action has a consequence but so does an execution

Because
1- part of entering a country is agreeing to abide by their laws, pretty much everybody knows that you don't try and smuggle drugs into Indonesia, Malaysia or Singapore.
2- Her motivation can only have been money, if she was for the free use of drugs, she could have just used them in the UK
3-Indonesia is the most populous muslim nation in the world and due to the west's fragile relations with the muslim world, declaring war over what many will see as a criminal's just deserts will be very bad for national security.
4-The Indonesian people tend to be pretty in favor of the death penalty for drug dealers, being of the opinion that if their product is responsible for the death and crime, then they are responsible for the death and crime
5- Britain has made no real comment over the others put to death, not the Australians(in Australia btw, the attitude that I have mostly seen was 'I'm not in favor of killing him, but the fuckhead should have known better') not the Indonesians etc etc. This will be seen merely as provincialism.
6- The Indonesians will see it as European imperialism, and considering their history with the dutch, they will fight very hard against it.
7- This isn't ancient Greece, we don't go to war to rescue one woman any more.
8- The UK won't have any allies in this, Australia needs to maintain good relations with its northern neighbor and won't do anything unless shit gets really bad (see timor) the US needs all the friends it can get in Asia to balance out China, Most of Asia will agree with Indonesia on the issue and the EU will be pissed that its new egalitarian image is being messed up by old style imperialism.
9-The UK government does not care enough about 1 drug smuggler to fuck over its relations with another nation and to risk the lives of her Majesty's soldiers.
10- There is a kind of casual racism in assuming that the death of a single British person is worth killing thousands of Asians.

ten.to.ten:
I'd be surprised if the UK government could do anything, she's not the first Westerner this has happened to and she won't be the last. Whenever something like this happens I just can't believe anyone would still be that stupid or that desperate to try anything to do with drugs in Southeast Asia.

This is basically my response.

She knew what she was up to and what the consequences were for it, but did it anyway and got caught.

I merely want the them to be consistant in their lawmaking. Billionaire-tax fraud crooks get off with short prison sentences for speculating in food resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands. (Not even for speculating in food, that is completely legal. They just get in for the tax-fraud)

Thats something we can reasonably meassure, Speculation increases prices making the base foodstuffs unaffordable to the poor.

If this lady should die for attempting to turn a profit for harming others, so. Should. They.

Consistency, show it. Or the justice is flawed.

Right, thats enough anti-capitalist pig speech for today. Off to make fun of American conservatives on their forumss~~

the clockmaker:

adamsaccount:
Well if barbarism is what they work by then why not pay them back in kind? Sure every action has a consequence but so does an execution

Because
1- part of entering a country is agreeing to abide by their laws, pretty much everybody knows that you don't try and smuggle drugs into Indonesia, Malaysia or Singapore.
2- Her motivation can only have been money, if she was for the free use of drugs, she could have just used them in the UK
3-Indonesia is the most populous muslim nation in the world and due to the west's fragile relations with the muslim world, declaring war over what many will see as a criminal's just deserts will be very bad for national security.
4-The Indonesian people tend to be pretty in favor of the death penalty for drug dealers, being of the opinion that if their product is responsible for the death and crime, then they are responsible for the death and crime
5- Britain has made no real comment over the others put to death, not the Australians(in Australia btw, the attitude that I have mostly seen was 'I'm not in favor of killing him, but the fuckhead should have known better') not the Indonesians etc etc. This will be seen merely as provincialism.
6- The Indonesians will see it as European imperialism, and considering their history with the dutch, they will fight very hard against it.
7- This isn't ancient Greece, we don't go to war to rescue one woman any more.
8- The UK won't have any allies in this, Australia needs to maintain good relations with its northern neighbor and won't do anything unless shit gets really bad (see timor) the US needs all the friends it can get in Asia to balance out China, Most of Asia will agree with Indonesia on the issue and the EU will be pissed that its new egalitarian image is being messed up by old style imperialism.
9-The UK government does not care enough about 1 drug smuggler to fuck over its relations with another nation and to risk the lives of her Majesty's soldiers.
10- There is a kind of casual racism in assuming that the death of a single British person is worth killing thousands of Asians.

Well you can call it racism if you like but i think a government should stick up for its own people because if it doesnt then what the fuck is the point of it all? This is the GOVERNMENT of a country that is going to kill a citizen of great britain and doing nothing seems like evil to me

Im not saying that she should have done it, just that it does not deserve the death penalty.

adamsaccount:

bananafishtoday:

adamsaccount:
In my opinion executing someone for something like this should lead to UN action. Id love to see the British government demand that either she is released or we bomb this shit out of them. Its not going to happen but to me that seems like the only sensible reaction to something like this.

I don't see how threatening to bomb the third most populous country in the world over some random drug runner qualifies as "sensible."

Its facing violence with violence. Their government is going to brutally kill one of our people and in my opinion we should give them absolute hell for that. Weve gone to war over imaginary weapons, and the threat of this alone would probably be enough to secure her release, if the Indonesian government knows whats good for them. If they didnt release i see no problem with bombing their government or judiciary buildings. This is bordering on an act of war in my opinion. Not the civilian centres as they had nothing to do with this but at least make the people responsible pay.

Do you have any idea how crazy you sound? I don't mean that as an insult but... you're suggestiong a war with a potential world war outcome over one silly death sentence.
What about the US? Their foreigners that received death sentences includes Spain, France, UK, Germany and China.

And since when is cocain a recreational drug and not the second most addictive and harmful popular drug?

Nikolaz72:
I merely want the US to be consistant in their lawmaking. Billionaire-tax fraud crooks get off with short prison sentences for speculating in food resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands. (Not even for speculating in food, that is completely legal. They just get in for the tax-fraud)

Thats something we can reasonably meassure, Speculation increases prices making the base foodstuffs unaffordable to the poor.

If this lady should die for attempting to turn a profit for harming others, so. Should. They.

Consistency, show it. Or the justice is flawed.

.
Nik, it's Indonesia. They have super tough drug laws, and they don't shy away from the death penalty that much.

Anyway, I would say she dug her own grave, but it's too early to judge. Maybe the UK human rights organization can do some good to her cause and reduce her sentence from death to some sort of imprisonment.

adamsaccount:

Well you can call it racism if you like but i think a government should stick up for its own people because if it doesnt then what the fuck is the point of it all? This is the GOVERNMENT of a country that is going to kill a citizen of great britain and doing nothing seems like evil to me

Im not saying that she should have done it, just that it does not deserve the death penalty.

-It is racism
-You are warned pretty damn clearly as you come into the country not to do it, she went ahead anyway
-Your problem seems to be that she is British and nothing else
-The government can make its protests and ask for her back, but you called for war, which is insane
-It is not the government that is going to kill her, it is the judiciary
-The other stuff I said as to why going to war would be stupid.

Quaxar:

adamsaccount:

bananafishtoday:
I don't see how threatening to bomb the third most populous country in the world over some random drug runner qualifies as "sensible."

Its facing violence with violence. Their government is going to brutally kill one of our people and in my opinion we should give them absolute hell for that. Weve gone to war over imaginary weapons, and the threat of this alone would probably be enough to secure her release, if the Indonesian government knows whats good for them. If they didnt release i see no problem with bombing their government or judiciary buildings. This is bordering on an act of war in my opinion. Not the civilian centres as they had nothing to do with this but at least make the people responsible pay.

Do you have any idea how crazy you sound? I don't mean that as an insult but... you're suggestiong a war with a potential world war outcome over one silly death sentence.
What about the US? Their foreigners that received death sentences includes Spain, France, UK, Germany and China.

And since when is cocain a recreational drug and not the second most addictive and harmful popular drug?

The difference there is that i assume they were executed for crimes that actually "deserve" (not that i buy it but i can see why some would) like murder and violence etc. When the indonesian judiciary decided to murder someone like this
for a trivial crime then what the hell should britain do? sit back and watch? or actually try and do something to help.

Cocaine is a very recreational drug and if you dont believe me try some

the clockmaker:

adamsaccount:

Well you can call it racism if you like but i think a government should stick up for its own people because if it doesnt then what the fuck is the point of it all? This is the GOVERNMENT of a country that is going to kill a citizen of great britain and doing nothing seems like evil to me

Im not saying that she should have done it, just that it does not deserve the death penalty.

-It is racism
-You are warned pretty damn clearly as you come into the country not to do it, she went ahead anyway
-Your problem seems to be that she is British and nothing else
-The government can make its protests and ask for her back, but you called for war, which is insane
-It is not the government that is going to kill her, it is the judiciary
-The other stuff I said as to why going to war would be stupid.

No. If i was german, swedish, or from azerbaijan i would feel exactly the same way, i just happened to hear about this because im british and its in the news here. She could be from the fucking moon for all i care and i would oppose this, just the fact that shes from the country i live in makes me think my government is obliged to try and do something about it.

Full out war isnt a good option ill admit that but in my mind that is the scale of wrong this is on.

I may be a bit unhinged and its probably a good thing that im not in charge but these are my thoughts on this nonetheless

Nikolaz72:
I merely want the them to be consistant in their lawmaking. Billionaire-tax fraud crooks get off with short prison sentences for speculating in food resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands. (Not even for speculating in food, that is completely legal. They just get in for the tax-fraud)

Thats something we can reasonably meassure, Speculation increases prices making the base foodstuffs unaffordable to the poor.

If this lady should die for attempting to turn a profit for harming others, so. Should. They.

Consistency, show it. Or the justice is flawed.

Right, thats enough anti-capitalist pig speech for today. Off to make fun of American conservatives on their forumss~~

Did you even read the article before you went on a rant about the US? Jesus Christ! The story is about a British women facing trial in Indonesia. The US has nothing to do with this story.
Read the story next time before you go on some left wing rant about how bad America is.

Helmholtz Watson:

Nikolaz72:
I merely want the them to be consistant in their lawmaking. Billionaire-tax fraud crooks get off with short prison sentences for speculating in food resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands. (Not even for speculating in food, that is completely legal. They just get in for the tax-fraud)

Thats something we can reasonably meassure, Speculation increases prices making the base foodstuffs unaffordable to the poor.

If this lady should die for attempting to turn a profit for harming others, so. Should. They.

Consistency, show it. Or the justice is flawed.

Right, thats enough anti-capitalist pig speech for today. Off to make fun of American conservatives on their forumss~~

Did you even read the article before you went on a rant about the US? Jesus Christ! The story is about a British women facing trial in Indonesia. The US has nothing to do with this story.
Read the story next time before you go on some left wing rant about how bad America is.

I didn't write the US anywhere in my post. Apart from what I was gonna do after, the post was about flawed justice in Indonesia. The US has nothing to do with it. Read the post next time before you go on some stupid rant about how wrong I am.

If you refuse to read people's post then... Well.. Thats the kind of stuff that lands you on people's ignore list.

http://www.asianpeasant.org/content/stop-food-speculation-says-indonesian-peasants

Granted this is a global problem, so its fair that you should be confused.

Indonesia has shittons of food, its kind of wierd that not everyone can eat is it not?

adamsaccount:

Quaxar:

adamsaccount:

Its facing violence with violence. Their government is going to brutally kill one of our people and in my opinion we should give them absolute hell for that. Weve gone to war over imaginary weapons, and the threat of this alone would probably be enough to secure her release, if the Indonesian government knows whats good for them. If they didnt release i see no problem with bombing their government or judiciary buildings. This is bordering on an act of war in my opinion. Not the civilian centres as they had nothing to do with this but at least make the people responsible pay.

Do you have any idea how crazy you sound? I don't mean that as an insult but... you're suggestiong a war with a potential world war outcome over one silly death sentence.
What about the US? Their foreigners that received death sentences includes Spain, France, UK, Germany and China.

And since when is cocain a recreational drug and not the second most addictive and harmful popular drug?

The difference there is that i assume they were executed for crimes that actually "deserve" (not that i buy it but i can see why some would) like murder and violence etc. When the indonesian judiciary decided to murder someone like this
for a trivial crime then what the hell should britain do? sit back and watch? or actually try and do something to help.

Cocaine is a very recreational drug and if you dont believe me try some

the clockmaker:

adamsaccount:

Well you can call it racism if you like but i think a government should stick up for its own people because if it doesnt then what the fuck is the point of it all? This is the GOVERNMENT of a country that is going to kill a citizen of great britain and doing nothing seems like evil to me

Im not saying that she should have done it, just that it does not deserve the death penalty.

-It is racism
-You are warned pretty damn clearly as you come into the country not to do it, she went ahead anyway
-Your problem seems to be that she is British and nothing else
-The government can make its protests and ask for her back, but you called for war, which is insane
-It is not the government that is going to kill her, it is the judiciary
-The other stuff I said as to why going to war would be stupid.

No. If i was german, swedish, or from azerbaijan i would feel exactly the same way, i just happened to hear about this because im british and its in the news here. She could be from the fucking moon for all i care and i would oppose this, just the fact that shes from the country i live in makes me think my government is obliged to try and do something about it.

Full out war isnt a good option ill admit that but in my mind that is the scale of wrong this is on.

I may be a bit unhinged and its probably a good thing that im not in charge but these are my thoughts on this nonetheless

.
When you travel abroad and touch foreign soil you are also supposed to comply by their laws. It's your duty as a visitor to abide by the country's customs, but she broke them and got caught. The most that can be done is to issue an appeal in the Indonesian justice system and hope for a better judge next time.

@adamsaccount

oh i know the feeling associated with cocaine both to men and women (which is actually different) i'm willing to bet i know waaaay more about drugs than you.

i used to be offered payment in them by Glasgow gangsters for providing DJs and security for clubs. more than that i will not say.

it took me two years to get my second fiancÚ fully off cocaine when i first met her. she was a coke user and dealer as was her father who was a musician and who functioned as a dealer to other more professional musicians. her mother was a coke user and a mule who had gifted her daughter with septo-optic dysplasia (the same as jordans kid) resulting in partial blindness due to in utero cocaine exposure.

she, knowing she had this deformity and deeply angry because she had been told she could go fully blind before 30 because of it, used to hate people like you who thought everything was without consequence (and her mother ofc)...it was part of the reason she was a dealer herself...to toy with people she looked down on...anyway i digress...ancient history...

like i said after the edit if you think women (of any age) are somehow automatically an innocent party you're seriously naive.

and as for what you call a "recreational drug" i tend to view more in terms of potential because that's how most dealers view it...and i highly doubt anyone would call crack "recreational"...or are you naive to believe that all coke is sold uncut and uncooked to "the beautiful people" who are two busy feeling godlike or horny to bother themselves with things like the dependency and addiction that cooking only actually amplifies never mind the societal dmg done by the drug far away from their middle class partying.

there are only really two drugs i have encountered i object to (for reasons im not going to into any further) one is cocaine (because for one thing people are fucking insufferable on it) and the others are the opiates.

as i said before anyone who angles to addict others i would shoot myself...but that's not what we are talking about here.

this particular woman broke the drug smuggling laws in Indonesia. now i can make suppositions and you can make suppositions but if you wish to insist that she's innocent based on NOTHING other than perhaps a dim view of another nations legal system and an assumption of innocence (which strangely enough is always repeated every single fucking time a female mule is picked up) that's your own affair.

my opinion is she in all likelihood broke the law knowing fine well what she was doing and thus is due to pay the price because i know the vast majority of mules are in on the gig.

that's what happens when you break the law and get caught.

criminals know this.

it's actually kind of amusing to see those who aren't argue against the deal that for the most part is always weighed and measured by a criminal.

oh and btw advocating drug use or illegal activity of any kind is against the forum rules.
you might want to bear that in mind.

Whoa, I almost went off on Britain because I thought that they were going to carry out the execution at first. Man I've spoken out against the death penalty before, but when talking about a third world country that has some catching up to do it's hard to be mad that they still have it. The most to be hoped for is that her government can get her back to face a fair trial in her own country.

adamsaccount:

Quaxar:

adamsaccount:

Its facing violence with violence. Their government is going to brutally kill one of our people and in my opinion we should give them absolute hell for that. Weve gone to war over imaginary weapons, and the threat of this alone would probably be enough to secure her release, if the Indonesian government knows whats good for them. If they didnt release i see no problem with bombing their government or judiciary buildings. This is bordering on an act of war in my opinion. Not the civilian centres as they had nothing to do with this but at least make the people responsible pay.

Do you have any idea how crazy you sound? I don't mean that as an insult but... you're suggestiong a war with a potential world war outcome over one silly death sentence.
What about the US? Their foreigners that received death sentences includes Spain, France, UK, Germany and China.

And since when is cocain a recreational drug and not the second most addictive and harmful popular drug?

The difference there is that i assume they were executed for crimes that actually "deserve" (not that i buy it but i can see why some would) like murder and violence etc. When the indonesian judiciary decided to murder someone like this
for a trivial crime then what the hell should britain do? sit back and watch? or actually try and do something to help.

And who are you to judge what is worth a death sentence and what should be legal? Why do you assume your standards of right and wrong apply to a country where over half a million underaged Indonesians from 10-20 years are addicted to narcotics such as heroin?
What should Britain do? Not what you want it to I sure hope. There's a huge difference between diplomatic negotiations and a war even more ridiculous than anything the US could ever conceive.

Cocaine is a very recreational drug and if you dont believe me try some

Um... no, I don't think I'll try it.[1]
Contrary to a lot of people I actually know the biochemistry and read studies. Gonna need more to convince me.

[1] last bit edited for clarification

Sleekit:
@adamsaccount

oh i know the feeling associated with cocaine both to men and women (which is different) i'm willing to bet i know waaaay more about drugs than you.

i used to be offered payment in them by Glasgow gangsters for providing DJs and security for clubs. more than that i will not say.

it took me two years to get my second fiancÚ fully off cocaine when i first met her. she was a coke and weed user and dealer as was her father who was a musician and who functioned as a dealer to other more professional musicians. her mother was a coke user and a mule who had gifted her daughter with septo-optic dysplasia (the same jordans kid) resulting in partial blindness due to in utero cocaine exposure.

like i said after the edit if you think women (of any age) are somehow automatically an innocent party you're seriously naive.

and as for what you call a "recreational drug" i tend to view more in terms of potential because that's how most dealers view it...and i highly doubt anyone would call crack "recreational"...or are you naive to believe that all coke is sold uncooked to "The beautiful people" who are two busy feeling godlike or horny to bother themselves with things like the dependency and addiction that coking only amplifies never mind the societal dmg done by the drug far away far away from their partying.

there are only really two drugs i have encountered i object to (for reasons im not going to into any further) one is cocaine (because for one thing people are fucking insufferable on it) and the others are the opiates.

as i said before anyone who angles to addict others i would shoot myself.

this particular woman broke the drug smuggling laws in Indonesia. now i can make suppositions and you can make suppositions but if you wish to insist that she's innocent based on NOTHING other than perhaps a dim view of another nations legal system and an assumption of innocence (which strangely enough is always repeated every single fucking time a female mule is picked up) that's your own affair.

my opinion is she in all likelihood broke the law knowing fine well what she was doing and thus is due to pay the price.

that's what happens when you break the law and get caught.

criminals know this.

it actually kind of amusing to see those who aren't argue against the deal that for the most part is always weighed and measured by the criminal.

oh and btw advocating drug use or illegal activity of any kind is against the forum rules.

Im no expert at all. I just believe in the right to do whatever the fuck you want to yourself. Also I admit I dont know much about drugs except that the only one ive ever had a problem with has been tobacco. However I do recognise the damage some people inflict on themselves with these substances and the only conclusion i can come to is that if softer drugs were more readily available then the bad stuff would be used less. Also i dont think anyone whos willing to let themselves become reliant on cocaine really gives a shit if its legal or not. Thats like saying the only thing stopping everyone shooting up heroin is its legal status, i just dont buy it. Youve just got to use your own judgement in these things

I cant really comment on youre experiences except to say youre opinions are probably well founded but mine are founded from my own experiences and i have never had a problem with anything apart from tobacco.

Im not saying that she is innocent, I NEVER said that at all. Im saying that she doesnt deserve death for this and its madness if this executions goes ahed

edit: and her being a woman doesnt have anything to do with it, especially as i will readily acknowledge that she broke the law, just that she doesnt deserve that and most every other country would agree with me in a court of law

Quaxar:

adamsaccount:

Quaxar:

Do you have any idea how crazy you sound? I don't mean that as an insult but... you're suggestiong a war with a potential world war outcome over one silly death sentence.
What about the US? Their foreigners that received death sentences includes Spain, France, UK, Germany and China.

And since when is cocain a recreational drug and not the second most addictive and harmful popular drug?

The difference there is that i assume they were executed for crimes that actually "deserve" (not that i buy it but i can see why some would) like murder and violence etc. When the indonesian judiciary decided to murder someone like this
for a trivial crime then what the hell should britain do? sit back and watch? or actually try and do something to help.

And who are you to judge what is worth a death sentence and what should be legal? Why do you assume your standards of right and wrong apply to a country where over half a million underaged Indonesians from 10-20 years are addicted to narcotics such as heroin?
What should Britain do? Not what you want it to I sure hope. There's a huge difference between diplomatic negotiations and a war even more ridiculous than anything the US could ever conceive.

Cocaine is a very recreational drug and if you dont believe me try some

Um... no.
Contrary to a lot of people I actually know the biochemistry and read studies. Gonna need more to convince me.

Then this draconian policy obviously isn't working.

And you ask who am I to judge whats right and wrong? Well thats a right we all have i always assumed. I can look at an action and decide if its right or wrong, just try and stop me.

My view is a world view and isnt limited to my country and this is it;
The death penalty should not exist because a government that shows that kind of violence will probably just breed more violence.

Quaxar:

adamsaccount:

Quaxar:

Do you have any idea how crazy you sound? I don't mean that as an insult but... you're suggestiong a war with a potential world war outcome over one silly death sentence.
What about the US? Their foreigners that received death sentences includes Spain, France, UK, Germany and China.

And since when is cocain a recreational drug and not the second most addictive and harmful popular drug?

The difference there is that i assume they were executed for crimes that actually "deserve" (not that i buy it but i can see why some would) like murder and violence etc. When the indonesian judiciary decided to murder someone like this
for a trivial crime then what the hell should britain do? sit back and watch? or actually try and do something to help.

And who are you to judge what is worth a death sentence and what should be legal? Why do you assume your standards of right and wrong apply to a country where over half a million underaged Indonesians from 10-20 years are addicted to narcotics such as heroin?
What should Britain do? Not what you want it to I sure hope. There's a huge difference between diplomatic negotiations and a war even more ridiculous than anything the US could ever conceive.

Cocaine is a very recreational drug and if you dont believe me try some

Um... no.
Contrary to a lot of people I actually know the biochemistry and read studies. Gonna need more to convince me.

Define "recreational drug" for me.

There are plenty of people dying of obesity in the US. Gets get fat and addicted because of their parents. Plenty of gamblers wasting their lives and their money because they are addicted. Plenty of people who drink and are addicted. Who smoke.

I believe in a country where you can do whatever you want, to yourself, because if you don't believe I have the right to potentially fuck myself over, you don't believe in any freedom at all.

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