Pope Benedict XVI to resign

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Not G. Ivingname:
The last pope to resign was Pope Gregory XII, to stop the insanity of the Western Schism (three different people were all claiming to be pope).

I couldn't find an example of a pope who resigned do to poor health.

I remember one in the 1300's (also the last to ascend without being elected by a conclave) but I don't remember his name.

Hammartroll:
they're more conservative, but they'll be black, so the liberals will accept them

Which is why Herman Cain is so beloved by Liberals and totally not laughed at for being an idiot. Nein, nein, nein.

Blablahb:

Veylon:
Remember, there's no vetting system or legal requirements. Anybody can be Pope if he's got a lot of Cardinal friends.

Since 1378, the person elected to become the next pope has always been a cardinal.

True, but precedents older than that have been shattered in this week alone.

Ahhh Papal elections take me back to my time playing Medieval Total War 2. I packed the College of Cardinals, and every time the Pope got mad at me I would just bump him off and elect another friendly Pope. Good times.

I think that the Catholic church knows they have to find some way to reach more people in a world that has become increasingly not supportive of the church, and Pope Benedict XVI represents everything that is wrong with the Church in the last few years, the secrecy, the corruption, and the denial of science. They need a new face, and that is what this is about.

Also, I'd rather have Sister Simone Campbell in charge of the church, she is awesome.

"It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law." - Benedict XVI

http://www.vatican.edu/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

He's not really been that bad a pope, but like a president, whenever bad shit happens under his reign, it's automatically his fault. It's not like you should REALLY be looking at the bishops and arch bishops which are the middle management and therefore have the much more direct ability to influence things like moving pedophiles around and covering it up.

Bentusi16:
He's not really been that bad a pope, but like a president, whenever bad shit happens under his reign, it's automatically his fault.

Oh, come on. Just because he rejects that violence, possibly just for PR reasons, doesn't make him any less of a bigot. It takes more then saying "Well, that's maybe a little bad" to go from full out bigot and leader of one of the biggest sources of homophobic hatred on the planet, to 'not really that bad'.

In fact, there's something to be said for that being even more damning; first he causes homophobic violence, then he pretends to object to it? That's a tad worse still than doing something evil and at the very least standing for what you did.

GrimTuesday:
Ahhh Papal elections take me back to my time playing Medieval Total War 2. I packed the College of Cardinals, and every time the Pope got mad at me I would just bump him off and elect another friendly Pope. Good times.

Or you could have the pope be a woman in secret.
OR you could play as the papacy itself, have the pope be a woman in secret, field him with our army and take over the world in a glorious crusade.

..Man, I wish they would come out with Rome 2 already.

Blablahb:

Bentusi16:
He's not really been that bad a pope, but like a president, whenever bad shit happens under his reign, it's automatically his fault.

Oh, come on. Just because he rejects that violence, possibly just for PR reasons, doesn't make him any less of a bigot. It takes more then saying "Well, that's maybe a little bad" to go from full out bigot and leader of one of the biggest sources of homophobic hatred on the planet, to 'not really that bad'.

In fact, there's something to be said for that being even more damning; first he causes homophobic violence, then he pretends to object to it? That's a tad worse still than doing something evil and at the very least standing for what you did.

Given at Rome, 1 October 1986.

JOSEPH CARDINAL RATZINGER
Prefect

It was published over 20 years ago. Did you actually read the letter? It gives you ammo you know. Not as much as you might like, but definitely gives ammo.

I'm still waiting for your proof that he's a homophobic, by the way. I've presented an article written by the man that clearly has some good ideas in it.

So what are you basing YOUR theory off of?

Please bring forth unbiased evidence of the Pope 'inciting violence' or 'causing violence' of at least the level of authenticity I just gave. The burden of proof is on the accuser, after all.

What I want is you to come forward with evidence supporting your position that doesn't come from a source like 'AtheistHardon.com' or 'WhyGodIsEvilAndReligionIsStupid.org'. Give me something with a bit of authenticity to it.

Oh right, and by YOUR theory Obama only helps homosexuals because it's good for his career, right? Or any public figure ever does anything for any reason; it's just because it's 'good PR'.

Either bring forth evidence to support your position that doesn't rely on a biased premises, or admit that it's a personal belief without much substantial backing.

Bentusi16:

Either bring forth evidence to support your position that doesn't rely on a biased premises, or admit that it's a personal belief without much substantial backing.

We are talking about the same Pope that equated gay people to climate change right?

Gold:

Bentusi16:

Either bring forth evidence to support your position that doesn't rely on a biased premises, or admit that it's a personal belief without much substantial backing.

We are talking about the same Pope that equated gay people to climate change right?

Again, I want to see proof.

I don't necessarily like everything the pope gets up to, I don't, I really don't; but I want people to live up to their own standards. Please link proof of that exact statement from a verifiable source.

And if he did say that? Well for one thing I don't quite understand the context but I can't imagine it's good, so fuck that noise, that's stupid.

Bentusi16:

Gold:

Bentusi16:

Either bring forth evidence to support your position that doesn't rely on a biased premises, or admit that it's a personal belief without much substantial backing.

We are talking about the same Pope that equated gay people to climate change right?

Again, I want to see proof.

I don't necessarily like everything the pope gets up to, I don't, I really don't; but I want people to live up to their own standards. Please link proof of that exact statement from a verifiable source.

And if he did say that? Well for one thing I don't quite understand the context but I can't imagine it's good, so fuck that noise, that's stupid.

http://www.thedailydemocrat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2928&Itemid=99999999
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/22/676325/-Pope-Equates-Homosexuality-With-Global-Warming
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/12/21/pope-again-denounces-gay-marriage/
http://www.mediaite.com/online/merry-christmas-pope-benedict-xvi-denounces-gay-marriage-as-a-manipulation-of-nature/

It's not good.

Gold:

Bentusi16:

Gold:

We are talking about the same Pope that equated gay people to climate change right?

Again, I want to see proof.

I don't necessarily like everything the pope gets up to, I don't, I really don't; but I want people to live up to their own standards. Please link proof of that exact statement from a verifiable source.

And if he did say that? Well for one thing I don't quite understand the context but I can't imagine it's good, so fuck that noise, that's stupid.

http://www.thedailydemocrat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2928&Itemid=99999999
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/22/676325/-Pope-Equates-Homosexuality-With-Global-Warming
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/12/21/pope-again-denounces-gay-marriage/
http://www.mediaite.com/online/merry-christmas-pope-benedict-xvi-denounces-gay-marriage-as-a-manipulation-of-nature/

It's not good.

I think you and I have different definitions of 'reputable sources'. HOWEVER, one of them does link to a BBC article, and BBC is fairly reputable as a source and does source thing itself, so fair.

And I don't agree with what he says; but I still don't see evidence of 'inciting people to violence' so much as 'voicing an opinion that you disagree with' (not you specifically, as it may be, but some of the other people in the thread crying for blood).

Bentusi16:

I think you and I have different definitions of 'reputable sources'. HOWEVER, one of them does link to a BBC article, and BBC is fairly reputable as a source and does source thing itself, so fair.

Honestly, I don't care about sources, I care about the individual articles and whether or not they hold truth. Just because a site posts a lot of bullshit it doesn't always mean every article on the site is bullshit. I saw it was correct, and I actually remember reading about it when it happened, so I felt safe in posting it.

This sub-forum does too much of "OH THAT'S NOT A SOURCE SO I WON'T BELIEVE IT", when a lot of the time the sources are fine, just a little biased.

Bentusi16:
And I don't agree with what he says; but I still don't see evidence of 'inciting people to violence' so much as 'voicing an opinion that you disagree with' (not you specifically, as it may be, but some of the other people in the thread crying for blood).

I thought you were asking for proof that he was a homophobe.

I don't even know if it is proof he's homophobic but it certainly looks as if he has issues with gay people.

Anyway, many think that putting an opinion that gay marriage/gay people are as big a threat to the human race as global warming/climate change, might be language that incites action.

I disagree, but I can see where they would be coming from. If people hang on every word the pope says and treat everything he says as fact (which is kind of what you're meant to do as a catholic I guess?) it makes sense they'd feel compelled to do something about it. Especially if the pope has called it a big threat.

Eh....I'm sure I could come up with a more nuanced response, but

AND NOTHING OF VALUE WAS LOST

Realitycrash:

GrimTuesday:
Ahhh Papal elections take me back to my time playing Medieval Total War 2. I packed the College of Cardinals, and every time the Pope got mad at me I would just bump him off and elect another friendly Pope. Good times.

Or you could have the pope be a woman in secret.

Totally sounds like an anime I'd watch.

Production I.G., GET TO IT.

evilneko:

Realitycrash:

GrimTuesday:
Ahhh Papal elections take me back to my time playing Medieval Total War 2. I packed the College of Cardinals, and every time the Pope got mad at me I would just bump him off and elect another friendly Pope. Good times.

Or you could have the pope be a woman in secret.

Totally sounds like an anime I'd watch.

Production I.G., GET TO IT.

They did, kind of. Does "pope who appears whose balls haven't dropped and effectively controlled by a woman" count?

On topic: It certainly is an interesting turn of events. Sadly, Benedict's background made him the symbol of much of the problems facing and within the church, particularly his unwillingness to reign in the hyperpolitical cardinal Timothy Dolan in the US. (Former?) Cathoic and libertarian Andrew Sullivan did an interesting post regarding the troubles of Benedict's papacy.

Bentusi16:

What I want is you to come forward with evidence supporting your position that doesn't come from a source like 'AtheistHardon.com' or 'WhyGodIsEvilAndReligionIsStupid.org'.

I hopped on here expecting to have to explain to people that his Hitler Youth time was also spent in a POW camp for protesting the war and that he wasn't a Nazi. And here I find this gem. I am laughing so hard.

I wish he was going to jail, but I guess THAT will never happen.

I guess the choirboys will be sighing in relief until the next pope gets elected.

I'm kind of hoping that the next one will be George Pell. I hate him, and think he would be an awful pope, but at least then he'd fuck off to Italy and we wouldn't have to deal with his bullshit here anymore, and then he'll die.

Lilani:
This refusal to talk about problems openly is also why pedophilia has been allowed to fester within the church.

I think paedophilia has been allowed to fester within the church because priests are forbidden from masturbation or sex so, logically, they'd find some other way to let out their sexual frustration. Namely, on vulnerable children who they can trust to not tell anyone (and even if they do, the church just tells them to pray for forgiveness - y'know, as if they didn't just destroy someone's childhood for their own selfish gain).

Glasgow:

Is it our place to advice the cardinals of the world on who to choose or what will the consequences of their choice be?

All that we can do is wait for the announcement. I suppose the talk of potential candidates will soon come to the news.

Indeed, the propaganda ministry of the reactionaries is controlled entirely by a zombie carpenter after all, how can we question that.

OT: I still say invade the Vatican state and destroy the catholic church. I'm pretty certain even the IMF and World Bank would cheer at this now with Southern Europe's finances looking the way they are.

Captcha: Dinner bell

Allow me to be the first to celebrate with his theme song.

Relish in Chaos:

I think paedophilia has been allowed to fester within the church because priests are forbidden from masturbation or sex so, logically, they'd find some other way to let out their sexual frustration.

I don't think that theory makes any sense at all since a priest who is sexually frustrated because they are avoiding sin is going to avoid pedophilia just the same. It's not like it's written somewhere "A priest must be celibate... unless it's with a child, then go for it!" So far as I can tell, priests who are pedophiles are so for the same reasons as non-priests who are pedophiles.

Bentusi16:

Either bring forth evidence to support your position that doesn't rely on a biased premises, or admit that it's a personal belief without much substantial backing.

Ha! Blab never gives sources...

tstorm823:

Relish in Chaos:

I think paedophilia has been allowed to fester within the church because priests are forbidden from masturbation or sex so, logically, they'd find some other way to let out their sexual frustration.

I don't think that theory makes any sense at all since a priest who is sexually frustrated because they are avoiding sin is going to avoid pedophilia just the same. It's not like it's written somewhere "A priest must be celibate... unless it's with a child, then go for it!" So far as I can tell, priests who are pedophiles are so for the same reasons as non-priests who are pedophiles.

No, it's because they can trust and/or threaten the kid not to tell anyone. It's much easier to hide a sexual relationship with a child than it is an adult woman, who might let it slip to her friends.

Relish in Chaos:

No, it's because they can trust and/or threaten the kid not to tell anyone. It's much easier to hide a sexual relationship with a child than it is an adult woman, who might let it slip to her friends.

Or you could take off the collar, go to a bar, and rent a hotel room... like every other adulturous man.

Good news everyone, the apocalypse prophecies are back and the pope is in their!!!

http://news.discovery.com/history/resigning-pope-brings-doomsday-prophecy-130213.htm

There is no hope for the Catholic Church because it is so corrupt because of the priests molesting children and other scandals involving the Catholic Church.

Sniperexpert:
There is no hope for the Catholic Church because it is so corrupt because of the priests molesting children and other scandals involving the Catholic Church.

That has been true for decades though, the church has survived because most people don't care. Every so often a "shocking" revelation will come out that the catholic church has been doing what everyone knows it is doing and has been for years, nobody should be too surprised except for those invested in not knowing.

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