Obey.

http://vimeo.com/59002146

This is a film based on the book "Death of the Liberal Class" by journalist and Pulitzer prize winner, Chris Hedges.

It charts the rise of the Corporate State, and examines the future of obedience in a world of unfettered capitalism, globalisation, staggering inequality and environmental change.

The film predominantly focuses on US corporate capitalism, but it is my hope that the viewer can recognise the relevance of what is being expressed with regards to domestic political and corporate activity.

Scary vision of the present and future, eh? But watch it all.

Note, it may be very disturbing. The oppressors of humanity are merciless.

Can I just say that Capitalism isn't evil?

Oh, one last note about the Corporate State -

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini, (arguably) the father of Fascism.

It's not Capitalism that is wrong, it's authoritarian regimes. When you consolidate so much power in one hand, you do not want to give up on your gains. It is when the government is set to benefit the elite that controls it and not the people when the great American experiment failed.

EDIT: I watched five minutes of it and all I can say that it's rubbish so far.

After getting to ten minutes in I realized that it wasn't meant to be a comedy and turned it off. The entire thing sounded like a child incoherently rambling about things which he heard a number of adults talk about, yet didn't quite grasp the full or actual meaning of what they said. I would add more, but the lot of it is so silly that it really defeats itself.

MammothBlade:

Note, it may be very disturbing. The oppressors of humanity are merciless.

I laughed and then wondered if you were being serious?

....aaaand three minutes in I turned it off. Just a bunch of assertions, with a small whiff of "back in the good ol' days".

I'll give it a shot: I don't agree with the premise that governments and corporations have recently become far too intertwined as I assert that governments and corporations have always gone hand in hand, but the first minutes set a decent enough tone; the narrator sets up the themes and assertions of the film, hopefully these will all be filled in by the end.

Notes:
13:00ish - there will only be the elite and serfs. This misunderstands capitalism by painting too simple a picture. Capitalism needs consumption of goods to avoid crisis, so there needs to be either a spending class, a new form of production where consumer goods have lost importance or a method to destroy capital such as war must be in full force.
16:30ish - the media - media have a confused role in society; unless they are transformed into direct mouthpieces of business, they will continue to gain their incomes from viewership; this means that on occasion media will print stories they think will be popular with its readership, which can go against corporate interest. I'm not denying the complicity of media with business, but we should not overestimate this hegemony.

The thing that bothers me about Obey is that it continually asserts things, without taking the time to motivate or explain them. Tons of predicted outcomes are sketched, but without a mechanism to properly connect the events to make the narrative believable. There are a heap of elements here that I partly or mostly agree with, but this film does not do a good job of representing them. Which is sad, because the presentation and subject are very interesting.

I'm not going to continue watching; if anyone here knows when the justification and explanation for all the assertions start coming in, post it here and I'll give it another look.

Cheers.

MammothBlade:
Note, it may be very disturbing.

I fully agree with this. I find it highly disturbing that some socialists are deluded enough to think such a rubbish film is a realistic outlook on the future.

Glasgow:
Can I just say that Capitalism isn't evil?

Oh, one last note about the Corporate State -

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini, (arguably) the father of Fascism.

It's not Capitalism that is wrong, it's authoritarian regimes. When you consolidate so much power in one hand, you do not want to give up on your gains. It is when the government is set to benefit the elite that controls it and not the people when the great American experiment failed.

EDIT: I watched five minutes of it and all I can say that it's rubbish so far.

Capitalism inevitably involves the concentration of power, de facto, in the hands of a plutocratic elite. It has happened in the USA, and in many other western countries.

Just look at how closely UK politicians are married to companies such as Atos, and G4S, and other private contractors who want to buy up public services for profit. Privatisation is pushed by politicians/kleptocrats, to benefit their corporate paymasters.

TKretts3:
After getting to ten minutes in I realized that it wasn't meant to be a comedy and turned it off. The entire thing sounded like a child incoherently rambling about things which he heard a number of adults talk about, yet didn't quite grasp the full or actual meaning of what they said. I would add more, but the lot of it is so silly that it really defeats itself.

Okay, be like that, treat it like some COMEDY, I know it's hard to contemplate that one might possibly live in a police state.

TheMatsjo:
I'll give it a shot: I don't agree with the premise that governments and corporations have recently become far too intertwined as I assert that governments and corporations have always gone hand in hand, but the first minutes set a decent enough tone; the narrator sets up the themes and assertions of the film, hopefully these will all be filled in by the end.

Notes:
13:00ish - there will only be the elite and serfs. This misunderstands capitalism by painting too simple a picture. Capitalism needs consumption of goods to avoid crisis, so there needs to be either a spending class, a new form of production where consumer goods have lost importance or a method to destroy capital such as war must be in full force.
16:30ish - the media - media have a confused role in society; unless they are transformed into direct mouthpieces of business, they will continue to gain their incomes from viewership; this means that on occasion media will print stories they think will be popular with its readership, which can go against corporate interest. I'm not denying the complicity of media with business, but we should not overestimate this hegemony.

The thing that bothers me about Obey is that it continually asserts things, without taking the time to motivate or explain them. Tons of predicted outcomes are sketched, but without a mechanism to properly connect the events to make the narrative believable. There are a heap of elements here that I partly or mostly agree with, but this film does not do a good job of representing them. Which is sad, because the presentation and subject are very interesting.

I'm not going to continue watching; if anyone here knows when the justification and explanation for all the assertions start coming in, post it here and I'll give it another look.

Cheers.

It is an oversimplification perhaps - the common people are expected to be obedient consumers who spend most of their income.

Mass Media can sometimes work against corporations, but as many rely on ad revenue, they cannot afford to be critical of corporate power for too long.

Though I agree, towards the end it was providing alternatives without first proving its assertions, probably more a film preaching to the converted.

Blablahb:

MammothBlade:
Note, it may be very disturbing.

I fully agree with this. I find it highly disturbing that some socialists are deluded enough to think such a rubbish film is a realistic outlook on the future.

I find your lack of faith disturbing. And if you're going to say that, at least get it right -*Anarchist/Libertarian Socialist

So, ok, you hated the film. I didn't think you'd like it anyway.

MammothBlade:

Glasgow:
Can I just say that Capitalism isn't evil?

Oh, one last note about the Corporate State -

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini, (arguably) the father of Fascism.

It's not Capitalism that is wrong, it's authoritarian regimes. When you consolidate so much power in one hand, you do not want to give up on your gains. It is when the government is set to benefit the elite that controls it and not the people when the great American experiment failed.

EDIT: I watched five minutes of it and all I can say that it's rubbish so far.

Capitalism inevitably involves the concentration of power, de facto, in the hands of a plutocratic elite. It has happened in the USA, and in many other western countries.

Just look at how closely UK politicians are married to companies such as Atos, and G4S, and other private contractors who want to buy up public services for profit. Privatisation is pushed by politicians/kleptocrats, to benefit their corporate paymasters.

TKretts3:
After getting to ten minutes in I realized that it wasn't meant to be a comedy and turned it off. The entire thing sounded like a child incoherently rambling about things which he heard a number of adults talk about, yet didn't quite grasp the full or actual meaning of what they said. I would add more, but the lot of it is so silly that it really defeats itself.

Okay, be like that, treat it like some COMEDY, I know it's hard to contemplate that one might possibly live in a police state.

TheMatsjo:
I'll give it a shot: I don't agree with the premise that governments and corporations have recently become far too intertwined as I assert that governments and corporations have always gone hand in hand, but the first minutes set a decent enough tone; the narrator sets up the themes and assertions of the film, hopefully these will all be filled in by the end.

Notes:
13:00ish - there will only be the elite and serfs. This misunderstands capitalism by painting too simple a picture. Capitalism needs consumption of goods to avoid crisis, so there needs to be either a spending class, a new form of production where consumer goods have lost importance or a method to destroy capital such as war must be in full force.
16:30ish - the media - media have a confused role in society; unless they are transformed into direct mouthpieces of business, they will continue to gain their incomes from viewership; this means that on occasion media will print stories they think will be popular with its readership, which can go against corporate interest. I'm not denying the complicity of media with business, but we should not overestimate this hegemony.

The thing that bothers me about Obey is that it continually asserts things, without taking the time to motivate or explain them. Tons of predicted outcomes are sketched, but without a mechanism to properly connect the events to make the narrative believable. There are a heap of elements here that I partly or mostly agree with, but this film does not do a good job of representing them. Which is sad, because the presentation and subject are very interesting.

I'm not going to continue watching; if anyone here knows when the justification and explanation for all the assertions start coming in, post it here and I'll give it another look.

Cheers.

It is an oversimplification perhaps - the common people are expected to be obedient consumers who spend most of their income.

Mass Media can sometimes work against corporations, but as many rely on ad revenue, they cannot afford to be critical of corporate power for too long.

Though I agree, towards the end it was providing alternatives without first proving its assertions, probably more a film preaching to the converted.

Blablahb:

MammothBlade:
Note, it may be very disturbing.

I fully agree with this. I find it highly disturbing that some socialists are deluded enough to think such a rubbish film is a realistic outlook on the future.

I find your lack of faith disturbing. And if you're going to say that, at least get it right -*Anarchist/Libertarian Socialist

So, ok, you hated the film. I didn't think you'd like it anyway.

Capitalism does not inherently cause the concentration of power. With the ability to rise and fall to the beat of the market, any great enterprise can collapse under its own weight and loose control. It is when said enterprise grabs the reins of government and convinces the state to help it and stop its collapse that Capitalism gets twisted.

These companies could have been replaced by others in the past. Since they dealt with the government they got preferred status and were able to keep their business afloat by bribing or 'convincing' government officials that their product was needed. It's unfair and an insult to other companies out there that are trying to find their consumers and not have the government be their go-to buyer. This is why government should have the least connection with the business world as possible.

Government inevitably involves the concentration of power, de-facto, in the hands of the political elite. These professional politicians have gained the trust of the public or have twisted their appearance so much that they make themselves appear good or needed for the government to work well. Sometimes these professional politicians would like to have a golden parachute after they retire. This is where corruption seeps in.

Glasgow:

Capitalism does not inherently cause the concentration of power. With the ability to rise and fall to the beat of the market, any great enterprise can collapse under its own weight and loose control. It is when said enterprise grabs the reins of government and convinces the state to help it and stop its collapse that Capitalism gets twisted.

These companies could have been replaced by others in the past. Since they dealt with the government they got preferred status and were able to keep their business afloat by bribing or 'convincing' government officials that their product was needed. It's unfair and an insult to other companies out there that are trying to find their consumers and not have the government be their go-to buyer. This is why government should have the least connection with the business world as possible.

Government inevitably involves the concentration of power, de-facto, in the hands of the political elite. These professional politicians have gained the trust of the public or have twisted their appearance so much that they make themselves appear good or needed for the government to work well. Sometimes these professional politicians would like to have a golden parachute after they retire. This is where corruption seeps in.

The wealthiest in society usually are able to and do exert greater control over the government. In the modern era this wealthy sector of society are corporations, in the past it was other parts of society.

You do however misunderstand how corporations intertwine with government in a problematic way. It is not individual corporations, but a large number of them operating as a group. Although corporations vie against each other, but they also operate collectively in many respects. All oil companies, for instance, have similar vested interests regarding issues like environmental regulation, national power strategy, and so on. This is not so dissimilar in concept to aristocrats a few hundred years ago: they worked against each other for wealth and influence, but they tended to put up a very common front blocking political reform or protectionism of their income streams from non-aristocrats.

Such is life. Power is wealth, wealth is power. Capitalism is in that sense no different to what has preceded it. You might indeed say that corruption of government by corporations is not inherent to capitalism, but on the other hand it is also close to an inevitability; capitalism will leave a wealth inequality in society, and the wealthy will have their extra say in what goes on. It is not too serious so long as it is kept in hand and the capitalist system provides its benefits of progression, but let's not pretend it has no causative role in corruption at all.

I'm listening to the video and am annoyed by the fucked retarded techno. While the video is right in many aspects it isn't presented in a way that makes it believable or finds the route cause of things.

If you want a video that explains the problem and presents it in a way that becomes real I'd suggest The Corporation documentary. Though it does become a bit repetitive and wordy at it's over 2 hour run time, it however presents the root of the problem, it's effects, and the future of the problem. It has statements from former CEO's, CFO's, current politicians and CEO's, and activists.

http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/corporation.php

I would have never guessed that the view as corporation as people(in america) actually started with suffrage for former slaves. The 15th amendment meant to defend former slaves was actually more widely used to defend corporations.

The video basically says that since we define a corporation as a person we should look at it's personality and breaks down how we would define that personality. The final conclusion, Corporations as a person are basically psychopaths. One important example they made from this was how IBM sold their machines to Nazi germany for use of counting jews, homosexuals, and vagrants and their eventual fate as execution, gas chamber, or hard labor.

This is personal opinion but the video you give is one viewpoint and it's so obvious in it's intention that it doesn't make you think. It basically presents information in the same way it says corporations do.

Ohhh god I've seen this already on a different site , here what I wrote there .

There is a worrying trend in documentaries of telling you what you should think instead why you should think . these are the documentaries that give statement after statement without examining the information it provides . or documentaries that start with preconceptions that it assumes you already have . And this is a prime example of them .

I know some of these things are unavoidable , especially when you tackle a subject as broad as this. but there is no excuse for having your whole documentary like that. it's not enough to just throw out onions disguised as facts , you need to tell us why to came to these conclusions to begin with .

Also, this:

I'm listening to the video and am annoyed by the fucked retarded techno.

That and the constant visual effects make it hard to watch/listen and care. Stopped after about 7 minutes, sorry.

 

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