Should we abolish the papacy?

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I don't understand why everyone is clamoring for a new pope so badly. What, honestly, does the papacy have to do with the teachings of christ these days? It rakes in billions of dollars and doesn't put that money to good use. And is the pope really significant now? He's an ELECTED body from a group of random guys they choose to be the voice of god. How does this make any sense?

I'm an atheist, i know i probably sound pretty ignorant about this, but seriously why do we need this? The papacy doesn't have to do with christ, he was a poor carpenter he didn't live in a palace and address millions on a golden balcony. He even told people thy need to GET RID of things like wealth and possessions to be free. So why do we want another pointless figurehead in a multi-billion dollar institution that has less and less to do with it's doctorine the more time goes on?

again, i may not have all my facts straight, but i wanna know from those of you who are Catholic or other denomination of Christianity.

How do you feel about the pope?

Do you feel the papacy is important? to you? your faith? or no?

What are your thoughts on the wealth of the papacy? and what should be done with it? how should it be put to better use?

What are you thoughts on the process of just choosing someone to be the voice of an omnipotent being? Do you think the pope really speaks for god or is there something else?

i'm curious, people have been talking a lot about this lately. i personally believe the papacy should be abolished, and the majority of money put towards developing nations and charities. I personally believe that is MUCH more relevant to the teachings of jesus

EDIT: i seem to have phrased this wrong, and it's leading a few posters to assume things on my part.

HERE'S WHAT I MEAN: i'm not saying any particular power IS GOING TO or HAS THE POWER to aboloish the papacy. this is a hypothetical, opinion-based thread. and i want input from EVERYBODY, people seem to think i'm saying the vatican applied to all christian sects instead of catholocism. i am WELL aware that it is a catholic institution, but i still want input from other denominations and faith as to how they feel.

I understand, that, unless I am very much mistaken, which I might be, the majority of the North American Christians are protestant, while papacy is a catholic institution.

Make no mistake, I wouldn't care if it was abolished, but what I'm saying here, the papacy isn't a christian institution as much as it's a catholic Christian institution. So a protestant (which I am shamelessly assuming that you are, considering your location on the map, and the fact that you come across as religious, and apologize in advance if my assumpion is incorrect) arguing the abolishment of the papacy would be similar to an UK football fan wondering why the hell we need the german Bundesliga.

Edit: You do have a totally tubular and gnarly username though. Radical. I like it *snicker*

I'm looking up Bundesliga as we speak!

If you belong to the mickey mouse club, you gotta wear the ears. You want to be Catholic? They got a Pope. Don't want a Pope? You're something other than Catholic.

Hmmmmm. Looks like a Pope.

image

Vegosiux basically already answered it: It's a Catholic thing. Remember all those Protestants (and other groups) who cut lose from the Catholic church? Yeah, they certainly agree with you, OP, that having a Pope is unnecessary. But they're not Catholics anymore. That said, it's not like massive numbers of Catholics don't disagree with what the Pope has to say, too...

Gorfias, that's Handball. When people just say "Bundesliga", they're usually talking about Fußball/football. If you're curious, "Bundesliga" basically means "federal league"; so it's a generic term that applies to different types of sports. Still, Fußball/football is what it usually refers to in common conversation.

Speaking of abolishing institutions that have nothing to do with me, save for the traffic jam they cause in the unlikely event they come to my neck of the woods... Why don't we abolish the British monarchy?

I'm an American, i know i probably sound pretty ignorant about this, but seriously why do we need this?
[...]
i may not have all my facts straight, but i wanna know from those of you who are British or other member of the commonwealth.

How do you feel about the queen?

Do you feel the monarchy is important? to you? your country? or no?

What are your thoughts on the wealth of the monarchy? and what should be done with it? how should it be put to better use?

What are you thoughts on the process of just choosing someone to be the archaic figure head of a nation? Do you think the queen really speaks for the British people or is there something else?

It's only a Catholic thing - and being a former Roman Catholic we do tend to like our traditions...

I think the Papacy needs to be reformed if the Catholic church wants to make it through the next century, and they need to be way less conservative with issues such as masturbation and sexuality, and be a lot more transparent & maybe redistribute some of their wealth. Seeing as they tend to work a couple of centuries behind the rest of us, I see the Pope becoming increasingly irrelevant...

Meh, the only beef I have with the present day Vatican is the massive stockpile of history they're sitting on that they won't let others document and/or study. Aside from that, those who believe in the authority of the papacy can do as they please so far as I am concerned. The city-state and its rulers have caused massive offenses in the past, but those responsible are long dead, and their successors have proven reasonably agreeable.

Heronblade:
The city-state and its rulers have caused massive offenses in the past, but those responsible are long dead, and their successors have proven reasonably agreeable.

Don't you think issues like shuffling around pedophiles, argueing for the spread of HIV (especially with lies about "pores" in condoms and the like) and excommunicating rape victims for aborting is... kind of offensive? Obviously the Catholic Church is much less problematic these days than in the past, but still. There are plenty of issues with it and one wonders how problematic it would be if it had the kind of political power today that it used to have in the past. If it could do the things it used to be able to/it might want to do.

If the catholics want to abolish the pope they have the option, I suppose, but no outside orginization should step in and say 'no more popes'. It's an internal affair with them.

We're Catholics, the Papacy is the head of our church. If you've got a problem, then there's a reason we've had at least two major, lasting schisms in the church. This is something we accept and other groups have no right to try and abolish it.

I feel the Papacy is very important to being a Catholic. They organize the church, they give priests the skills necessary to be priests. They also dictate the doctrine of the church. The reason Catholicism is seen as being very liberal compared to other sects is all because of the actions of the Papacy.

Witty Name Here:
We're Catholics, the Papacy is the head of our church. If you've got a problem, then there's a reason we've had at least two major, lasting schisms in the church. This is something we accept and other groups have no right to try and abolish it.

I feel the Papacy is very important to being a Catholic. They organize the church, they give priests the skills necessary to be priests. They also dictate the doctrine of the church. The reason Catholicism is seen as being very liberal compared to other sects is all because of the actions of the Papacy.

I wouldn't say that Catholicism is seen as particularly liberal, not in England at any rate (I have been too much of a coward to go within 20 feet of the subject in Scotland), where it's prohibition of contraception, abortion in any cicumstances (even when the mothers life is at risk) female and indeed even married priests all make it more conservative than for example the CofE, Quakers, Methodists or Church of Scotland.

What exactly do you mean be "should we" abolish the Papacy?

As an Atheist from a predominant Protestant area of the world, what makes you believe that you have any say in the existence of the Roman Catholic Church?

It's like me saying "as a Briton who has little interest in sports, should we abolish the NFL? I see all the talk about the Superbowl, but I don't really understand why it should matter to me. I think the NFL should be abolished and all the money that belongs to the teams should be given to charity, because it doesn't really serve my interests at all".

The only way Atheists, Protestants or even North Americans in general would be able to "abolish" the Papacy would be to form an army, invade Vatican City and depose the Roman Catholic Church by force... a Crusade that would be even more ill-advised and less successful than the war against Saddam Hussein and would probably have repercussions in every Western nation that would make Islamic terrorism seem like a child's tantrum.

If you really want to change, let alone abolish, an institution like the Papacy and the Roman Catholic Church, first you need to be a member of that institution and believe in what they stand for, then you need to encourage reform from within, but as an Atheist who has no stake in the Papacy whatsoever, it's really none of your business how Catholics run their club for something you don't even believe in.

Vegosiux:
I understand, that, unless I am very much mistaken, which I might be, the majority of the North American Christians are protestant, while papacy is a catholic institution.

The Roman Catholic Church is the largest single denomination, the rest of the "Christians" are broken up into many other groups. Most of them do not follow Catholic doctrine but they are not exactly Protestants, some would even find it offensive to be called that. The divisions that caused some to break away from typical Protestant worships are as wide as the reasons Catholics and Protestants divided in the first place.

J Tyran:

Vegosiux:
I understand, that, unless I am very much mistaken, which I might be, the majority of the North American Christians are protestant, while papacy is a catholic institution.

The Roman Catholic Church is the largest single denomination, the rest of the "Christians" are broken up into many other groups. Most of them do not follow Catholic doctrine but they are not exactly Protestants, some would even find it offensive to be called that. The divisions that caused some to break away from typical Protestant worships are as wide as the reasons Catholics and Protestants divided in the first place.

Well, yes, I know it's not just one or the other, but I was under the impression that protestantism was still the main branch in North America. Well, the more you know.

GamerKT:

Vegosiux:
So a protestant (which I am shamelessly assuming that you are, considering your location on the map, and the fact that you come across as religious, and apologize in advance if my assumpion is incorrect)

funkyjiveturkey:
I'm an atheist

Jesus Christ.

Whoops; my apologies, OP.

To kind of mirror other sentiments in this thread: Who is "we"? We do "we" get a say in whether or not there is a Pope? Why is the necessity of a Pope relevant to this?

Vegosiux:

J Tyran:

Vegosiux:
I understand, that, unless I am very much mistaken, which I might be, the majority of the North American Christians are protestant, while papacy is a catholic institution.

The Roman Catholic Church is the largest single denomination, the rest of the "Christians" are broken up into many other groups. Most of them do not follow Catholic doctrine but they are not exactly Protestants, some would even find it offensive to be called that. The divisions that caused some to break away from typical Protestant worships are as wide as the reasons Catholics and Protestants divided in the first place.

Well, yes, I know it's not just one or the other, but I was under the impression that protestantism was still the main branch in North America. Well, the more you know.

25% of the population is inducted into the Roman Catholic Church around 75 million or so I think. Its an easy assumption to make, usually the public face of US "Christianity" is often Protestant.

My sarcastic use of quote marks around "Christian" is not directed at you, I have a fair bit of contempt for the word. It was never a term that was really used around the world, not until progressives began attacking religious laws. Then all the different Churches, ones that often hated each other began using it as a banner to gather under while defending their ideals.

I am waiting for the day you get "theists" and "atheists" to achieve the same goals.

Though I am the furthest thing away then a fan of the Catholic church I would not abolish the papacy, because I would not enjoy anyone coming along to abolish my church.

**edit as of 98' I am of no organized church. So better to say I would not want anyone to come along and abolish my faith.

ClockworkPenguin:

I wouldn't say that Catholicism is seen as particularly liberal, not in England at any rate (I have been too much of a coward to go within 20 feet of the subject in Scotland), where it's prohibition of contraception, abortion in any cicumstances (even when the mothers life is at risk) female and indeed even married priests all make it more conservative than for example the CofE, Quakers, Methodists or Church of Scotland.

Well you really have to pick your battles. While difficult on the matters of contraception (The church at least here in America seems to be much different from it's "NO ABORTIONS EVER!" cousins in Europe) it's still accepted the Theory of Evolution earlier than any other sect. It funds university and scientific research rather than seeing Science as "TEH EBILS!" and is one of the very rare sects that say that Gay people aren't going to hell just for being gay. (Though the backwardness comes in when they claim that Gay sex is a sin rather than just being homosexual yourself) Plus, with it's belief that anyone can be redeemed and the sanctity of life, it fiercely opposes the Death Penalty at the very least it seems in favor of more gun control.

It's really a matter of picking your battles. Plus the massive decentralization in most Protestant sects frequently leads to vastly different sermons from chapels in two different towns.

Vegosiux:

J Tyran:

Vegosiux:
I understand, that, unless I am very much mistaken, which I might be, the majority of the North American Christians are protestant, while papacy is a catholic institution.

The Roman Catholic Church is the largest single denomination, the rest of the "Christians" are broken up into many other groups. Most of them do not follow Catholic doctrine but they are not exactly Protestants, some would even find it offensive to be called that. The divisions that caused some to break away from typical Protestant worships are as wide as the reasons Catholics and Protestants divided in the first place.

Well, yes, I know it's not just one or the other, but I was under the impression that protestantism was still the main branch in North America. Well, the more you know.

GamerKT:

Vegosiux:
So a protestant (which I am shamelessly assuming that you are, considering your location on the map, and the fact that you come across as religious, and apologize in advance if my assumpion is incorrect)

funkyjiveturkey:
I'm an atheist

Jesus Christ.

Whoops; my apologies, OP.

Well, according to wiki, protestants make up about 50% of americans, catholics make up 25%. Catholics dominant areas which have large concentrations of italians or mexicans for example. which would be New England (NE part of US) and the area around the Mexican border.

I don't see how this is our choice. So long as there are Catholics to give the pope money and power, it doesn't matter what I think of the position or it's wealth, it's just not under my control.

YES!

_WE_ should abolish the papacy.

Sheesh.

The only way the papacy is getting abolished is when theres no catholics. And even if all the catholics convert to Zoroastrianism, I doubt its going anywhere. Its an institution, and institutions are hard to kill. File this under "neva' gonna' happen"

funkyjiveturkey:
I personally believe the papacy should be abolished, and the majority of money put towards developing nations and charities.

By whom? Whom do you imagine has the authority and the right to dictate to people what form their religious beliefs are allowed to take and to dismantle an international organization dedicated to promoting a philosophy?

Ryotknife:

Vegosiux:

J Tyran:

The Roman Catholic Church is the largest single denomination, the rest of the "Christians" are broken up into many other groups. Most of them do not follow Catholic doctrine but they are not exactly Protestants, some would even find it offensive to be called that. The divisions that caused some to break away from typical Protestant worships are as wide as the reasons Catholics and Protestants divided in the first place.

Well, yes, I know it's not just one or the other, but I was under the impression that protestantism was still the main branch in North America. Well, the more you know.

GamerKT:

Jesus Christ.

Whoops; my apologies, OP.

Well, according to wiki, protestants make up about 50% of americans, catholics make up 25%. Catholics dominant areas which have large concentrations of italians or mexicans for example. which would be New England (NE part of US) and the area around the Mexican border.

Wiki is garbage, its not as simple as non Catholic Christians = Protestant. The groups are broken up into many differant doctrines and methods of worship. Lutherans for example adhere to the original Protestant teachings but some branches still hold to some of the Roman Catholic doctrines too. Thats just one example to illustrate how complicated it is.

The results of one detailed study suggests:-

Catholic 46,004,000 26.2%
Baptist 33,964,000 19.4%
Methodist 14,116,000 8.0%
Lutheran 9,110,000 5.2%
Presbyterian 4,985,000 2.8%
Jewish 3,137,000 1.8%
Pentecostal 3,116,000 1.8%
Episcopalian 3,042,000 1.7%
Latter-day Saints 2,487,000 1.4%
Churches of Christ 1,608,000 1.0%
Jehovah's Witnesses 1,381,000 0.8%

The debate over which groups are Protestants or not has been going on for centuries in some cases, even if a group identifies as Protestant there may be individual sects or conclaves within that group that deny it and hold to different doctrines.

When a group can internally argue for 200 years about which prayer books should be used you can see why identification can be difficult. Pigeonholing groups into nice easy slots is impossible.

J Tyran:

Ryotknife:

Vegosiux:

Well, yes, I know it's not just one or the other, but I was under the impression that protestantism was still the main branch in North America. Well, the more you know.

Whoops; my apologies, OP.

Well, according to wiki, protestants make up about 50% of americans, catholics make up 25%. Catholics dominant areas which have large concentrations of italians or mexicans for example. which would be New England (NE part of US) and the area around the Mexican border.

Wiki is garbage, its not as simple as non Catholic Christians = Protestant. The groups are broken up into many differant doctrines and methods of worship. Lutherans for example adhere to the original Protestant teachings but some branches still hold to some of the Roman Catholic doctrines too. Thats just one example to illustrate how complicated it is.

The results of one detailed study suggests:-

Catholic 46,004,000 26.2%
Baptist 33,964,000 19.4%
Methodist 14,116,000 8.0%
Lutheran 9,110,000 5.2%
Presbyterian 4,985,000 2.8%
Jewish 3,137,000 1.8%
Pentecostal 3,116,000 1.8%
Episcopalian 3,042,000 1.7%
Latter-day Saints 2,487,000 1.4%
Churches of Christ 1,608,000 1.0%
Jehovah's Witnesses 1,381,000 0.8%

The debate over which groups are Protestants or not has been going on for centuries in some cases, even if a group identifies as Protestant there may be individual sects or conclaves within that group that deny it and hold to different doctrines.

When a group can internally argue for 200 years about which prayer books should be used you can see why identification can be difficult. Pigeonholing groups into nice easy slots is impossible.

Actually, the common usage of the word Protestant really DOES mean non-Catholic Christian. Even Websters defines it as "a Christian not belonging to a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox church." So when the word is generally used, that really is what they are talking about.

I have no doubt that theological debates abound over who REALLY counts as a Protestant, but those are just technical arguments to the rest of us. Speaking as a former Catholic, the general view was a division of the world into Catholics, Protestants and non-Christians. Not a very deep viewpoint, but very common.

I suppose it's is kind of like the technical arguments over what people mean when they use the word "clip" and it is generally understood that what they should technically be saying is "magazine." Yeah, they're technically wrong, but most folks understand exactly what they mean.

Want to abolish the Papacy? Stop going to and donating money to the Catholic church. If enough people do that there won't be a Pope anymore. And if not, at least the Pope will have no bearing on your own life.

davidmc1158:

J Tyran:

Ryotknife:

Well, according to wiki, protestants make up about 50% of americans, catholics make up 25%. Catholics dominant areas which have large concentrations of italians or mexicans for example. which would be New England (NE part of US) and the area around the Mexican border.

Wiki is garbage, its not as simple as non Catholic Christians = Protestant. The groups are broken up into many differant doctrines and methods of worship. Lutherans for example adhere to the original Protestant teachings but some branches still hold to some of the Roman Catholic doctrines too. Thats just one example to illustrate how complicated it is.

The results of one detailed study suggests:-

Catholic 46,004,000 26.2%
Baptist 33,964,000 19.4%
Methodist 14,116,000 8.0%
Lutheran 9,110,000 5.2%
Presbyterian 4,985,000 2.8%
Jewish 3,137,000 1.8%
Pentecostal 3,116,000 1.8%
Episcopalian 3,042,000 1.7%
Latter-day Saints 2,487,000 1.4%
Churches of Christ 1,608,000 1.0%
Jehovah's Witnesses 1,381,000 0.8%

The debate over which groups are Protestants or not has been going on for centuries in some cases, even if a group identifies as Protestant there may be individual sects or conclaves within that group that deny it and hold to different doctrines.

When a group can internally argue for 200 years about which prayer books should be used you can see why identification can be difficult. Pigeonholing groups into nice easy slots is impossible.

Actually, the common usage of the word Protestant really DOES mean non-Catholic Christian. Even Websters defines it as "a Christian not belonging to a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox church." So when the word is generally used, that really is what they are talking about.

I have no doubt that theological debates abound over who REALLY counts as a Protestant, but those are just technical arguments to the rest of us. Speaking as a former Catholic, the general view was a division of the world into Catholics, Protestants and non-Christians. Not a very deep viewpoint, but very common.

I suppose it's is kind of like the technical arguments over what people mean when they use the word "clip" and it is generally understood that what they should technically be saying is "magazine." Yeah, they're technically wrong, but most folks understand exactly what they mean.

It is bogged down in technicalities but if someone finds it offensive to have their spirituality labeled as something they do not identify as its not right to stick that label on. Many of the faiths I listed derive their doctrine directly from the original split in the Roman Catholic Church, others even predate the Protestant movement like the Lutherans.

Technicalities matter in a discussion like this anyway. If someone states that a certain faith is the largest the only thing that matters is the truth, labeling people as something they are not can be offensive, equality matters and its a big deal. We all need to recognize our differences, respecting them is just as important. Talking about ammo clips is not the same, thats just an inanimate object and it only matters to military nerds (I am one too tbh) but religion is different because it involves people.

JimB:
By whom? Whom do you imagine has the authority and the right to dictate to people what form their religious beliefs are allowed to take and to dismantle an international organization dedicated to promoting a philosophy?

Well, the Catholic faith as a whole (or majority), or at least its leaders.

Should we abolish the United States and/or China? I mean, the money wasted at battling drugs, and on weapons of destruction could better be used to stimulate African economies... I mean, both are members of the United Nations and have signed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and many subsequent Covenants detailing and specifying human rights, yet their very (geo)political actions oppose these rights.

I might be naive, but as a humanist... why do we need the USA or China?

1. Many religious people have. Most Protestants and the Orthodox churches don't believe the pope has any special connection to God, only Catholics do.

2. Vatican City is it's own country. You would literally have to go to war with the Vatican (which has been sworn to be protected by Italy) and kill every cardinal on Earth to make sure the papacy ends, and that isn't even a good method to insure it's complete eradication (surviving Bishops may declare themselves cardinal and revive the tradition as soon as the war ends).

3. It isn't your religion, isn't in your country, and really isn't directly your problem. As long you believe people should be allowed to use money as they wish (be donate it to charity or donate it to a church), it isn't really our place to knock down somebody else's door and demand they stop following some really old guy with a silly hat. How would you feel if the Church decided to abolish Steven Hawking or his position in cambridge. Shall we really become hypocrites with "atheist inquisitions?

madwarper:
Speaking of abolishing institutions that have nothing to do with me, save for the traffic jam they cause in the unlikely event they come to my neck of the woods... Why don't we abolish the British monarchy?

I'm an American, i know i probably sound pretty ignorant about this, but seriously why do we need this?
[...]
i may not have all my facts straight, but i wanna know from those of you who are British or other member of the commonwealth.

How do you feel about the queen?

Do you feel the monarchy is important? to you? your country? or no?

What are your thoughts on the wealth of the monarchy? and what should be done with it? how should it be put to better use?

What are you thoughts on the process of just choosing someone to be the archaic figure head of a nation? Do you think the queen really speaks for the British people or is there something else?

The monarchy is a part of British history, why would we abolish it when it still serves a purpose and doesn't harm anyone?

Denholm Reynholm:

madwarper:
Speaking of abolishing institutions that have nothing to do with me, save for the traffic jam they cause in the unlikely event they come to my neck of the woods... Why don't we abolish the British monarchy?

I'm an American, i know i probably sound pretty ignorant about this, but seriously why do we need this?
[...]
i may not have all my facts straight, but i wanna know from those of you who are British or other member of the commonwealth.

How do you feel about the queen?

Do you feel the monarchy is important? to you? your country? or no?

What are your thoughts on the wealth of the monarchy? and what should be done with it? how should it be put to better use?

What are you thoughts on the process of just choosing someone to be the archaic figure head of a nation? Do you think the queen really speaks for the British people or is there something else?

The monarchy is a part of British history, why would we abolish it when it still serves a purpose and doesn't harm anyone?

Ahem.
More than a few would argue that keeping the monarchy so "well-fed and supplied" (to put it nicely) certainly harms people. I.e that money could go to people who actually deserve it. They (and I) would argue that giving abusrd amount of money and land to a selected few because they are a relic of a by-gone age is a tad absurd.

Realitycrash:

Denholm Reynholm:

madwarper:
Speaking of abolishing institutions that have nothing to do with me, save for the traffic jam they cause in the unlikely event they come to my neck of the woods... Why don't we abolish the British monarchy?

I'm an American, i know i probably sound pretty ignorant about this, but seriously why do we need this?
[...]
i may not have all my facts straight, but i wanna know from those of you who are British or other member of the commonwealth.

How do you feel about the queen?

Do you feel the monarchy is important? to you? your country? or no?

What are your thoughts on the wealth of the monarchy? and what should be done with it? how should it be put to better use?

What are you thoughts on the process of just choosing someone to be the archaic figure head of a nation? Do you think the queen really speaks for the British people or is there something else?

The monarchy is a part of British history, why would we abolish it when it still serves a purpose and doesn't harm anyone?

Ahem.
More than a few would argue that keeping the monarchy so "well-fed and supplied" (to put it nicely) certainly harms people. I.e that money could go to people who actually deserve it. They (and I) would argue that giving abusrd amount of money and land to a selected few because they are a relic of a by-gone age is a tad absurd.

I don't think you quite understand how it works and what they contribute to our country, especially economically.

The land part was hilarious as well... Inheriting property isn't anything new... Neither is it mutually exclusive to Royalty.

As for spending money that could be better spent elsewhere... We're ALL guilty of that on these forums. World hunger could most probably be abolished if people actually cared enough to make it happen, but the majority of people don't care about things that don't affect them directly or indirectly.

Well we cant abolish the papacy anymore than Britons can abolish the NFL as someone rightly pointed out.

However what we CAN and SHOULD do is remove Papacy power in government and make sure the pope doesnt get to dictate laws by proxy in ANY countries OR spread AIDS in Africa. We also need to boot out all the church of England priests in England. As long as catholics keep to making rules for other catholics i dont see an issue with the papacy. Also no more AIDS and pedo shuffling. But thats not a pope issue more than its a "Thats fucking illegal" issue. We should shut that activity down but not the group.

BiscuitTrouser:
Well we cant abolish the papacy anymore than Britons can abolish the NFL as someone rightly pointed out.

However what we CAN and SHOULD do is remove Papacy power in government and make sure the pope doesnt get to dictate laws by proxy in ANY countries OR spread AIDS in Africa. We also need to boot out all the church of England priests in England. As long as catholics keep to making rules for other catholics i dont see an issue with the papacy. Also no more AIDS and pedo shuffling. But thats not a pope issue more than its a "Thats fucking illegal" issue. We should shut that activity down but not the group.

How do we stop the Pope dictating laws by proxy or spreading AIDS? That power is based on people believing him when he gives his opinion, or flat out lies. You can't stop him from talking, or others from listening.

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