We're not going to give up on destroying the healthcare system

Yeah, he really said that. "Compassionate conservatism", ladies and gentlemen.

Meanwhile, his new budget proposal from the House includes a repeal of Obamacare. Again. Because the first 30+ tries went so well, right?

The full context: http://www.c-spanvideo.org/event/215587

Starts around the 14 minute mark. Basically Ryan says his group isn't about revisiting the past debates on taxes and proposes new tax code that's simpler.

An obvious question immediately comes to ask, if they're not about to revisit the past, why continue to fight AHCA? He explains that this is in-line with the agenda of a pro-growth budget and to remove ObamaCare makes that possible. He states his belief that Obamacare would be destructive, and that this fight, which is against that alleged reality, is one they will not give up.

AgedGrunt:
The full context: http://www.c-spanvideo.org/event/215587

Starts around the 14 minute mark. Basically Ryan says his group isn't about revisiting the past debates on taxes and proposes new tax code that's simpler.

An obvious question immediately comes to ask, if they're not about to revisit the past, why continue to fight AHCA? He explains that this is in-line with the agenda of a pro-growth budget and to remove ObamaCare makes that possible. He states his belief that Obamacare would be destructive, and that this fight, which is against that alleged reality, is one they will not give up.

I thought it would be something like this myself, either that or he fell victim to a Bushism.

But thing is, you can't fix a healthcare system by destroying it so you can build a new one. There are always people who need it.

What happens in the transition period when those people who need healthcare but can't afford the insurance sharks? Let them die or let their health deteriorate to the point it robs them of a decent life? Sacrifice them for the greater cause?

What, are the conservatives, should they succeed, bother to look into who died for their cause, give them medals and pay their families a million dollars each? Are they going to even look into who died for their cause and acknowledge them? Thank them? Express condolences? Own up "Ma'am, your family member has fallen ill in times when we fought to destroy the healthcare system so we could build a better one, in a time where he couldn't get the medical help he needed, because we destroyed the means by which he could"?

Yeah. Fat chance. A million is a statistic[1] when a righteous cause is to be achieved, no?

[1] Contrary to popular belief, Stalin never actually said this

AgedGrunt:
The full context: http://www.c-spanvideo.org/event/215587

Starts around the 14 minute mark. Basically Ryan says his group isn't about revisiting the past debates on taxes and proposes new tax code that's simpler.

An obvious question immediately comes to ask, if they're not about to revisit the past, why continue to fight AHCA? He explains that this is in-line with the agenda of a pro-growth budget and to remove ObamaCare makes that possible. He states his belief that Obamacare would be destructive, and that this fight, which is against that alleged reality, is one they will not give up.

It should be noted however that the current Ryan budget does take advantage of Medicare savings from the AHCA. Which basically means his math is flawwed. You can't get rid of something but keep the money it saves because the laws which create the savings will no longer be in place.

That being said a budget proposal is never meant to be adopted. no one ever votes on these, they are idealistic wish lists that provide a context for future negotiations, if they ever happen.

Essentially its all one big dog and pony show that has no real impact other then confirming that conservatives are conservative and democrats are liberal.

Just summarizing and providing the full context. Going forward with it I don't think it destroys the healthcare system and leaves nothing in place, obviously something would need to replace AHCA. That would be another painful, partisan mess on top of the landfill of garbage piling up in Washington.

As for solutions on healthcare or budgeting I don't predict such a conversation would go any better than it has in the US Congress so I'll offer none and merely leave it up to others to make their own opinions, but at least now it can be made with the complete proffer.

So instead of actual progress in the country, it seems we're going to see Obamacare repealed when Rubio enters office in 2016, it reinstated under a different name in 2024 when the next Democrat becomes President, and repealed again in 2032 when the next Republican becomes President, right up until the world ends.

Nice to see politics in action. For The People my asshole.

Man, I didn't like this arse-clown when he was running with Romney, and I dislike him even more now. Definitely not a plus that he's from my goddamn state, either. Fuck him and his healthcare policies. I have been in a situation where universal health care really would've helped me keep on my feet, and I've been in debt to my bank and hospital more than once.

As said before, For the people my ass.

Correct me if I'm wrong. AHCA is basically a variant of the policy created by the Heritage Foundation, a Republican think tank, to oppose Hillary Clinton's aborted attempt at healthcare reform. Heritage policy was the Republican policy and Mitt Romney even implemented a version whilst Governor of Massachusetts. When AHCA was proposed, the Republicans instantly denounced it, leaving them with no healthcare policy. Romney's poster policy that he was hoping to use in his presidential bid became toxic.

This seems so self-destructive, I can't believe a major political party would do this and I think I'm misunderstanding something. Am I misunderstanding something? Surely Ryan has an alternate healthcare policy in mind, not just destroy AHCA?

warmachine:
Correct me if I'm wrong. AHCA is basically a variant of the policy created by the Heritage Foundation, a Republican think tank, to oppose Hillary Clinton's aborted attempt at healthcare reform. Heritage policy was the Republican policy and Mitt Romney even implemented a version whilst Governor of Massachusetts. When AHCA was proposed, the Republicans instantly denounced it, leaving them with no healthcare policy. Romney's poster policy that he was hoping to use in his presidential bid became toxic.

This seems so self-destructive, I can't believe a major political party would do this and I think I'm misunderstanding something. Am I misunderstanding something? Surely Ryan has an alternate healthcare policy in mind, not just destroy AHCA?

Ryan's healthcare policy according to his budget proposal is "Pay for it your damn self. I can afford it with by estimated $33 million net worth, why can't you? If you can't afford it, work harder."

NameIsRobertPaulson:
Ryan's healthcare policy according to his budget proposal is "Pay for it your damn self. I can afford it with by estimated $33 million net worth, why can't you? If you can't afford it, work harder."

That's like saying Obama's policy is "These people can't afford to take care of themselves, so you all have to cover their asses. I can afford the insurance premiums and the plan looks good to my government. If you and your businesses don't want to go along, you're cheating."

AgedGrunt:

NameIsRobertPaulson:
Ryan's healthcare policy according to his budget proposal is "Pay for it your damn self. I can afford it with by estimated $33 million net worth, why can't you? If you can't afford it, work harder."

That's like saying Obama's policy is "These people can't afford to take care of themselves, so you all have to cover their asses. I can afford the insurance premiums and the plan looks good to my government. If you and your businesses don't want to go along, you're cheating."

Ryan's plan is to reinstate the system that caused 70 million Americans to have a medical debt they have zero chance of repaying because of how fundamentally broken the system was in favor of the rich.

NameIsRobertPaulson:
Ryan's plan is to reinstate the system that caused 70 million Americans to have a medical debt they have zero chance of repaying because of how fundamentally broken the system was in favor of the rich.

I guess we should blame the rich for people getting trapped into credit card debt by paying the minimum due every month, because that's all they can afford, and becoming buried under interest accumulation. Rich people avoid that because they don't need to take out credit.

Fun fact: when you have money, (almost) everything is in your favor.

AgedGrunt:

NameIsRobertPaulson:
Ryan's plan is to reinstate the system that caused 70 million Americans to have a medical debt they have zero chance of repaying because of how fundamentally broken the system was in favor of the rich.

I guess we should blame the rich for people getting trapped into credit card debt by paying the minimum due every month, because that's all they can afford, and becoming buried under interest accumulation. Rich people avoid that because they don't need to take out credit.

Fun fact: when you have money, (almost) everything is in your favor.

Fun fact: Credit cards are optional if you want to live, cancer treatment isn't. My parents are buried under $34,000 in debt from when my sister had to get surgery on her spine to remove a fluid buildup that was killing her. Under ObamaCare, my parents would have been fine. Since that was early 2010, they aren't.

Fun fact 2: My mom's insurance would have covered a lot of it... except that the federal government does not recognize my lesbian parents are together, despite them being together for 14 years, and my sister is my step-mom's child.

politicians they do what and don't give a fuck what else thinks or feels.

Yeah, 8 seconds snippets I don't like.

Anyway, I'd just like to remind folks that this guy has already promised to waste any savings he can create by cutting healthcare, infrastructure and other important services on more tax cuts for the rich. Fiscally responsible my ass. They don't have any ideas for solving anything, it's the same nonsense every time.

the darknees abyss:
politicians they do what and don't give a fuck what else thinks or feels.

You're confusing democratic popularism with dictatorship.

The problem with the USA is that they only do what they think will get them votes.

This of course doesn't account for the problem that most people don't know what they want.

That was pretty funny, obviously taken out of context and or was a gaff but still funny.

AgedGrunt:

NameIsRobertPaulson:

Ryan's plan is to reinstate the system that caused 70 million Americans to have a medical debt they have zero chance of repaying because of how fundamentally broken the system was in favor of the rich.

I guess we should blame the rich for people getting trapped into credit card debt by paying the minimum due every month, because that's all they can afford, and becoming buried under interest accumulation. Rich people avoid that because they don't need to take out credit.

Fun fact: when you have money, (almost) everything is in your favor.

The reason it is perfectly fair to have your money, should you have lots of it, spent on other people is because when you are rich you have already benefited the most from society, don't pretend that ANY rich person ever got there on their own. Education, employees, buyers of products are all essential to let them live the lifestyle they do, if you benefit more, you give back more. You get more from the system in place, so you give more back to it. Unless you genuinely think that your average citizen deserves to live in permanent debt because no-one with the power to change that gives a damn, in which case don't bother responding.

Everything is in your favour because you have benefited the most from society: ergo, you should give the most back, or find a different society.

Systems like nationalised healthcare add an important safety net that can save lives and livelihoods, without have a severe impact on the pockets of those who do not need it.

NameIsRobertPaulson:
Fun fact: Credit cards are optional if you want to live, cancer treatment isn't. My parents are buried under $34,000 in debt from when my sister had to get surgery on her spine to remove a fluid buildup that was killing her. Under ObamaCare, my parents would have been fine. Since that was early 2010, they aren't.

Fun fact 2: My mom's insurance would have covered a lot of it... except that the federal government does not recognize my lesbian parents are together, despite them being together for 14 years, and my sister is my step-mom's child.

Insurance is what it is, and it's not healthcare. Sorry about your situation, but I don't believe in a collective responsibility to cover public healthcare needs. Your parents may have been fine under Obamacare, but so much of the law depends on an insurance mandate and in my opinion that is a violation of individual rights. Nobody should be forced into financial systems against their will, and while there is a right to access health care, insurance is the money side, not medical provisioning.

To the second point, that's a separate issue and has nothing to do with the wealthy. Petition, redress and lobby for change in government, that's about all we can do.

Brandon237:
...don't pretend that ANY rich person ever got there on their own. Education, employees, buyers of products are all essential to let them live the lifestyle they do, if you benefit more, you give back more. You get more from the system in place, so you give more back to it.

Everything is in your favour because you have benefited the most from society: ergo, you should give the most back, or find a different society.

Systems like nationalised healthcare add an important safety net that can save lives and livelihoods, without have a severe impact on the pockets of those who do not need it.

Being successful doesn't necessarily mean you have/had advantage over everyone else, and the wealthy do give the most back. Look at progressive tax systems.

But go on about how it's not enough and reignite the familiar flames as seen in the firearm debate:

"You don't need that much. In fact, we'll tell you what you need, give everything else back to us."

 

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked