Do you believe in Athropogenic Climate Change
Yes, yes I do
76.2% (99)
76.2% (99)
Climate Change has little or nothing to do with humans
4.6% (6)
4.6% (6)
Maybe but I'm not sure
4.6% (6)
4.6% (6)
Pies and Gravy
1.5% (2)
1.5% (2)
I don't think humans have as much to do with climate change as people say
11.5% (15)
11.5% (15)
I don't really care enough to have an opinion
1.5% (2)
1.5% (2)
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Poll: Do you believe in Anthropogenic Climate Change?

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For those not particularly in the know, Anthropogenic climate change is basically human caused climate change that is probably the basis for the most recent (last 100 yeas or so) warming in the climate (climate defined as a 30 year period not the just the weather). Of course humans are not the only cause of climate change but current evidence and theories point to humans having a major impact on the current changes that we have and are seeing.

This is a theory that is supported by the vast majority of scientists (most probably 99% support the theory) and quite a few politicians and members of the public. Therefore as a matter of personal interest and because i don't think its been asked here before or at least recently I want to see what Escapees think about anthropogenic climate change.

Yes...the exact amount, and what the effects will be I can't say. But humans can't go round pumping CO2 into the atmosphere without it having some effect.

Of course. thaluikhain is right that estimating the exact extent of these influences is difficult, but it's pretty clear to me that we are having a sizeable effect. We're simultaneously increasing CO2 output and reducing the flora capable of absorbing and processing it.

Now, some people will say that we are simply too small to affect the entire planet. They'd be right. But we're not talking about the planet, we're talking about a thin layer of life and atmosphere on the very outer edge of it. That we are very much affecting. Climatologists have recently had to adapt their projections upwards to even larger and more rapid effects of climate change because of the rates at which ice at the poles is retracting, for example. Heat records and problematic weather events are trending upwards.

The thing is, climate is a very long-term issue, so we're now, because of the last decades, already stuck on a pretty bad course. If we did some proper work now, we could blunt but no longer completely avert the problems ahead. Funnily enough, that factoid seems to cause some people to say "fuck it, let's go all the way, it's too late anyway", which is incredibly annoying and disheartening to see.

Skeleon:
We're simultaneously increasing CO2 output and reducing the flora capable of absorbing and processing it.

OTOH, though, the flora that absorbs CO2 also absorbs sunlight. Forests don't have a high albedo, deforestation actually results in cooling, at least to an extent. So, whether or not this should be deemed a good or bad thing isn't so clear.

Not saying it isn't a problem, just that it's very complicated, even without climate change deniers going out of their way to muddle the facts because something.

Having reviewed a lot of scientific data on the matter, and the lack of rigorous scientific evidence against the theory of anthropogenic climate change, yes I do believe in it.

Naturally humans are not the only cause of climate change - but I find it highly ridiculous to suggest that scientist have not considered things such as solar activity and historical trends when it comes to reviewing the collated data. I also find it highly ridiculous to suggest that there is some sort of conspiracy from a shadowy "left-wing"/"green"/"liberal" supra-national organisation intent on increasing government spending just for the shits and giggles of it.

After all, even if all the scientists are wrong on the matter, what damage is caused by minimising the impact that humans have on the environment given how dependant we are on a whole variety of ecosystems, oceanic currents and habitable land with access to fresh water? The amount of spending on "green initiatives" is very paltry when taken as a measure of the GDP of the countries affecting such policies, so even financially there is very little impact, if that is where one's particular concern lies.

doesnt matter to me if i believe in it or not. there is simply no other sensible way to deal with the issue. deniers are gambling the fate of their kids, grandkids and frankly the fate of humanity for short term profit. thats not a bet anyone should be making

we had pictures of the hole in the ozone we created and the whole world changed its behaviour (stopping using CFCs) because if we didn't we were screwed.

and it's like no one remembers...

ofc we can affect the atmosphere and thus the climate.

the thing that annoys me most is having this argument/debate while for the most part not doing anything about something that is largely agreed to be going to happen either way (unless you're Dutch or something) .

Sure I "believe" in human industry affecting the climate to some degree.

I don't really care though. Plenty of current problems to deal with. And, as I understand it, there's a simultaneous overpopulation problem on the horizon anyway.

Plus, it's inevitable that the climate will change radically on its own within a few hundred thousand years. We're technically still in the ice age, why wouldn't it get hotter? Why push the burdens of adaptation onto some later generation? Seems to me it's not necessarily those who don't rush to save the climate who lack perspective on things.

Imperator_DK:
Why push the burdens of adaptation onto some later generation? Seems to me it's not necessarily those who don't rush to save the climate who lack perspective on things.

Because it's that later generation will have had to adapt over thousands of years instead of over two centuries.

Heck, we've known for decades that we've been causing global warming, and yet every time it was brought up some yupee would come up and say the evidence isn't clear enough. There are a handful of people who ought to have been shot for the greater good. At least I can personally throw up my hands in the air when disaster strikes and say : "Not my fault! I recycled."

Imperator_DK:
Plus, it's inevitable that the climate will change radically on its own within a few hundred thousand years.

If we aren't spreading to other planets "within a few hundred thousand years", we're either extinct or recovering from some enormous catastrophe. Climate change is a bit more pressing than that. We're talking decades to a few hundred years at most until really painful effects are felt here.

Yes...and a surprisingly large amount of it can be blamed on cows farting.

Positive feedback worries me the most about climate change, because once we get to that point it will be very hard to mitigate or reverse change. The size & point at which methane deposits will be released is also a big unknown, and that could turn out to be a game-changer.

Every data set that covers a realistic time scale (i.e. not a 'it's ok because we had snow in March kind of thing) shows that there is some serious changes happening in a ridiculously short period of time. Even if there is a natural component to climate change it's happening far to fast for it to be the only reason; it's like seeing someone go from pale to ridiculously tanned overnight - they might have gone sunbathing but you know they had to have used something to change so rapidly.

Well, what are we going to do about climate change?

Seems like the main things to do are doing away with fossil fuel burning, by making hydrogen fuel cells without them for transport, and using nuclear fission for power (at least until we can get fusion working).

But before we build all those nuclear facilities, we could really do with a greenhouse-gas-neutral alternative to cement.

I don't "believe" in anthropogenic climate change. It's not an issue of belief.
I accept that the scientists working in relevant fields have, so far, concluded from the evidence they've gathered that anthropogenic climate change is happening beyond a reasonable doubt.

Esotera:
Yes...and a surprisingly large amount of it can be blamed on cows farting.

Positive feedback worries me the most about climate change, because once we get to that point it will be very hard to mitigate or reverse change. The size & point at which methane deposits will be released is also a big unknown, and that could turn out to be a game-changer.

All the relevant science is saying that we've already reached the point of no return. The polar caps might be ice-free as early as this summer, and when those go, methane clarthates will get released soon after. And when that begins, we're all fucked. We're talking something like 30 years before things start getting catastrophic on a global scale.

What I think is most unfortunate is that a purely scientific question such as this got posted in the Religion and Politics thread. This discussion should be in Off-Topic, but the whole perception of it has been hijacked by this ridiculous "debate".

This is not really politics (except where politicians bend the findings of researchers to their own agendas) and it's certainly not religion.

Burninator:

Esotera:
Yes...and a surprisingly large amount of it can be blamed on cows farting.

Positive feedback worries me the most about climate change, because once we get to that point it will be very hard to mitigate or reverse change. The size & point at which methane deposits will be released is also a big unknown, and that could turn out to be a game-changer.

All the relevant science is saying that we've already reached the point of no return. The polar caps might be ice-free as early as this summer, and when those go, methane clarthates will get released soon after. And when that begins, we're all fucked. We're talking something like 30 years before things start getting catastrophic on a global scale.

I saw a recent paper that compares the costs by 2100 and 2200 of doing something and doing nothing. There's a lot to be gained by doing something but the costs that we've already doomed ourselves to bear are enormous.

I think it could be a thing, but its not an issue we actually have to deal with.

Humans are a naturally occurring part of earth's ecosystem. By extension, everything we do is fine and the earth should be able to adapt and handle whatever we do to it. If not, we just all go extinct or something. Either way, nothing to be done.

Shadowstar38:
Humans are a naturally occurring part of earth's ecosystem. By extension, everything we do is fine and the earth should be able to adapt and handle whatever we do to it. If not, we just all go extinct or something. Either way, nothing to be done.

That makes no sense to me. Sure, either we will go extinct or we won't. But we're involved parties, normally people don't want to go extinct. Yes, our extinction would be a natural occurance, but why would that matter? We'll still be extinct. This sounds like some sort of "natural order"-idea to me that I can never get behind. The fact that we are affecting the natural world should be obvious reason enough to follow it up with considerations regarding how much and in what way we can and should affect it. Especially for our own long-term interests' sake.

"There's nothing to be done" is false, anyway. Countries like the USA, China and India just won't do much of anything because of economic short-term considerations; China and India because they are catching up and on a sort of economic gold rush, the USA because their lobbyists ensure no long-term effects are taken into consideration, as always. Meanwhile plenty of countries are investing in new industries like green energy (rather than subsidizing oil, by the way) to grow jobs and labour there and at least make a transition. Whether it'll be fast enough or not, time well tell, but doing nothing but continuing on this self-destructive path is idiotic. And the worst part is that countries that do act responsibly will still suffer the consequences of countries that don't.

thaluikhain:
OTOH, though, the flora that absorbs CO2 also absorbs sunlight. Forests don't have a high albedo, deforestation actually results in cooling, at least to an extent. So, whether or not this should be deemed a good or bad thing isn't so clear.

Not saying it isn't a problem, just that it's very complicated, even without climate change deniers going out of their way to muddle the facts because something.

I guess, although deforestation has its own series of issues, like danger of landslides and drying out the ground. Not to mention that the retracting ice caps cost reflective surface at the same time anyway, undoing such a cooling effect. But point taken, it's much more complex than that and I'm no climatalogist.

Even though I accidentally typed anthropogenic, instead of anthropogenic (an honest mistake), I do actually "believe in it". Well know about it anyway.

It's pretty interesting to learn how human beings are affecting earth's systems.

Burninator:

Esotera:
Yes...and a surprisingly large amount of it can be blamed on cows farting.

Positive feedback worries me the most about climate change, because once we get to that point it will be very hard to mitigate or reverse change. The size & point at which methane deposits will be released is also a big unknown, and that could turn out to be a game-changer.

All the relevant science is saying that we've already reached the point of no return. The polar caps might be ice-free as early as this summer, and when those go, methane clarthates will get released soon after. And when that begins, we're all fucked. We're talking something like 30 years before things start getting catastrophic on a global scale.

I think a global average temperature change above 2 degrees is supposed to be game over for keeping the effects manageable. If the methane deposits do get released I don't really want to be around to observe the consequences. By the time the figures have actually been made concrete to show us that the tipping point has been reached, it will be too late for conventional action.

Then again, we can always turn to geoengineering in the short-term to cool the planet. It won't help with ocean acidification but could be a cheap measure to help us transition to a carbon-neutral world.

Human effects on the climate are likely overblown. Nonetheless, you can't do what we do to the environment and not see some blowback.

Of course we have an impact on our environment, even our so called " primitive" tribes have been aware of this for thousands of years. As for those who think " cooling the planet" will work, they should understand it is not the warming you should fear, it is what comes next. From our kept history, it is the floods, then the cold you should fear, not the warmth. Everything dies when the poles melt and cause the volcanos to erupt, the volcanos erupt and block out the sun.. then it gets very very very cold and dark. No food, just frozen Ice age. Disturbing the magma is what should be most feared, when the poles melt, it changes the shape of the earth disturbing our orbit and our magma... then it gets bad.. REAL bad.

Lil devils x:
Of course we have an impact on our environment, even our so called " primitive" tribes have been aware of this for thousands of years. As for those who think " cooling the planet" will work, they should understand it is not the warming you should fear, it is what comes next. From our kept history, it is the floods, then the cold you should fear, not the warmth. Everything dies when the poles melt and cause the volcanos to erupt, the volcanos erupt and block out the sun.. then it gets very very very cold and dark. No food, just frozen Ice age. Disturbing the magma is what should be most feared, when the poles melt, it changes the shape of the earth disturbing our orbit and our magma... then it gets bad.. REAL bad.

...

Citation very strongly needed for any/all of that.

I mean, yes, the shape of the world is influenced by the amount of ice in the poles (in that the weight of the ice pushes the ground underneath it down slightly), to a tiny, tiny amount, but the icecaps do not affect volcanoes, which do not affect the Earth's orbit, unless you are talking about really negligible amounts.

thaluikhain:

Lil devils x:
Of course we have an impact on our environment, even our so called " primitive" tribes have been aware of this for thousands of years. As for those who think " cooling the planet" will work, they should understand it is not the warming you should fear, it is what comes next. From our kept history, it is the floods, then the cold you should fear, not the warmth. Everything dies when the poles melt and cause the volcanos to erupt, the volcanos erupt and block out the sun.. then it gets very very very cold and dark. No food, just frozen Ice age. Disturbing the magma is what should be most feared, when the poles melt, it changes the shape of the earth disturbing our orbit and our magma... then it gets bad.. REAL bad.

...

Citation very strongly needed for any/all of that.

I mean, yes, the shape of the world is influenced by the amount of ice in the poles (in that the weight of the ice pushes the ground underneath it down slightly), to a tiny, tiny amount, but the icecaps do not affect volcanoes, which do not affect the Earth's orbit, unless you are talking about really negligible amounts.

Yes, yes they do. According to our kept history, the poles melt and refreeze in different locations, when they do, it changes the shape of the earth and throws it out of balance. this changes the rotation of the earth itself. Now I know when you think of my tribe speaking about holding the world in balance, you do not think that is exactly what they are talking about but it is.

Take any ball for example, and spin it then take part of that ball and start to move the weight around, it starts to wobble. The same thing happens to our earth, whether or not you realize it. As for Science, I can go hunting for you more information on this, but This is the kept " history of the earth" as I was taught in my tribe.

thaluikhain:

Lil devils x:
Of course we have an impact on our environment, even our so called " primitive" tribes have been aware of this for thousands of years. As for those who think " cooling the planet" will work, they should understand it is not the warming you should fear, it is what comes next. From our kept history, it is the floods, then the cold you should fear, not the warmth. Everything dies when the poles melt and cause the volcanos to erupt, the volcanos erupt and block out the sun.. then it gets very very very cold and dark. No food, just frozen Ice age. Disturbing the magma is what should be most feared, when the poles melt, it changes the shape of the earth disturbing our orbit and our magma... then it gets bad.. REAL bad.

...

Citation very strongly needed for any/all of that.

I mean, yes, the shape of the world is influenced by the amount of ice in the poles (in that the weight of the ice pushes the ground underneath it down slightly), to a tiny, tiny amount, but the icecaps do not affect volcanoes, which do not affect the Earth's orbit, unless you are talking about really negligible amounts.

Here this may help :)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/science/does-melting-polar-ice-affect-earths-tilt-and-spin.html?_r=0
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121219133551.htm
http://www.livescience.com/25936-climate-change-causes-volcanism.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

When the volcanic ash gets spewed into the jet stream it blocks the sun and cools the earth causing an ice age, like happened not too long ago with the 7 year famine and the year without a summer where the mississippi river froze solid at new orleans due to the Mount Tambora eruption. If we cause greater erruptions by causing this to happen faster, we very well could cause a much stronger ice age than a mini one like that with much more devestating results. As for negligible amounts, that is all it takes to affect the magma.

Now also taking this into consideration:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_magnetic_field
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/16dec_giantbreach/
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/10/geology-earths-magnetic-field-and-climate-change-2476512.html
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2002/mar/28/earths-magnetic-field-linked-to-changing-orbit
http://www.usgs.gov/blogs/features/usgs_top_story/the-usgs-monitors-earth%E2%80%99s-magnetic-field-to-prepare-citizens-for-magnetic-storms/
An increased likelyhood of this happening at a faster rate than anticipated is not out of the question.

EDIT: why is it not linking the wiki page for the earths magnetic field?! I have repasted that thing 5 times now... google earths magnetic field, then click wiki. :p

thaluikhain:

Lil devils x:
Of course we have an impact on our environment, even our so called " primitive" tribes have been aware of this for thousands of years. As for those who think " cooling the planet" will work, they should understand it is not the warming you should fear, it is what comes next. From our kept history, it is the floods, then the cold you should fear, not the warmth. Everything dies when the poles melt and cause the volcanos to erupt, the volcanos erupt and block out the sun.. then it gets very very very cold and dark. No food, just frozen Ice age. Disturbing the magma is what should be most feared, when the poles melt, it changes the shape of the earth disturbing our orbit and our magma... then it gets bad.. REAL bad.

...

Citation very strongly needed for any/all of that.

I mean, yes, the shape of the world is influenced by the amount of ice in the poles (in that the weight of the ice pushes the ground underneath it down slightly), to a tiny, tiny amount, but the icecaps do not affect volcanoes, which do not affect the Earth's orbit, unless you are talking about really negligible amounts.

FYI, Lil Devils was raised in some kind of native american tribe or something. And they claim everything that happens anywhere is something they predicted.
Like the Higgs Boson and stuff, which she claims her tribe was already aware of hundreds of years ago.

You really don't want citations for this.

TheBelgianGuy:

thaluikhain:

Lil devils x:
Of course we have an impact on our environment, even our so called " primitive" tribes have been aware of this for thousands of years. As for those who think " cooling the planet" will work, they should understand it is not the warming you should fear, it is what comes next. From our kept history, it is the floods, then the cold you should fear, not the warmth. Everything dies when the poles melt and cause the volcanos to erupt, the volcanos erupt and block out the sun.. then it gets very very very cold and dark. No food, just frozen Ice age. Disturbing the magma is what should be most feared, when the poles melt, it changes the shape of the earth disturbing our orbit and our magma... then it gets bad.. REAL bad.

...

Citation very strongly needed for any/all of that.

I mean, yes, the shape of the world is influenced by the amount of ice in the poles (in that the weight of the ice pushes the ground underneath it down slightly), to a tiny, tiny amount, but the icecaps do not affect volcanoes, which do not affect the Earth's orbit, unless you are talking about really negligible amounts.

FYI, Lil Devils was raised in some kind of native american tribe or something. And they claim everything that happens anywhere is something they predicted.
Like the Higgs Boson and stuff, which she claims her tribe was already aware of hundreds of years ago.

You really don't want citations for this.

No, of course My tribe does not claim everything was predicted, We are discussing the earth's History, The history of our people has been kept for thousands of years by oral tradition passed down through generations, not only by my tribe, but by tribes around this world. I know " civilized people" tend to just think the tribal primitive people are just ignorant dirt dwellers, but they have kept an oral history passed down from generation to generation since the time before the great migrations. We have kept histories of our civilizations built and the fall of those civilizations, how we survived the earths cycles, and the events that occurred. I know you don't seem to think that our oral history is all that important, or that you could not learn anything from it, but there is much history that does not need " interpreted" as it never ceased to exist. Yes, much was lost during the extermination, as they targeted many of our historians in battle, many survived, as did the history they keep.

In fact, not only is everything not predicted, but that is the opposite of what we are taught. We are taught there are choices we make and they matter because we will determine the world we will live in, that we have control over our own futures and what we do is important because those decisions will affect the very world we live in. That we must put a great deal of thought into our actions and how they affect our world, our plants, animals, water, air, soil.. as that is what will be affected by our careless actions. That is very different than claiming to " predict" everything, instead it is we have learned from past mkistakes and do not wish to cause great destruction and dispair. That is why my tribe, and others feel very strongly about putting back into the earth more than we take from it and caring for all life to ensure it survives along with us. I think you greatly misunderstand and if you actually wanted to understand you would seek to learn from the many tribes of this world that are still very much alive in this day directly to gain a better perspective into the earths history and how the choices we make affect what happens to us.

What your civilization considers " pre history" isn't "prehistory" at all. It has still been kept by many. You forget our ancestors WERE scientists, doctors and mathemeticians.

And on a more entertaining note.. Why are our brains shrinking if we are supposed to be more intelligent than our ancestors? XD
http://discovermagazine.com/2010/sep/25-modern-humans-smart-why-brain-shrinking

Of course we have an effect on the environment, and very few people are foolish enough to deny that. Even fewer are willing to deny that the more directly noxious excesses of society are a big problem. (The morons that deny dumping poison into groundwater sources is a bad idea are thankfully very few in number these days) The question, and primary cause of debate, is over just how much of an impact we do have on the Earth's normal meteorological cycle.

To some degree, even that is not the right question. Before making an informed decision about what to do concerning this topic, we need to determine exactly what the impact we do have will cause in the long term. Adjusting things back to the balance we had prior to the industrial age would be ideal, and we certainly should make steps in that direction, but things will never quite be the same again, and we must find a way to compensate intelligently.

Of course, an intelligent discussion is absolutely the last thing we will find among our leadership so long as this remains a party politics issue in their minds.

Speaking of this topic, a student recently found a simple and cheap way to pass smoke through water in order to leech off CO2 and produce carbonic acid. The acid can be used to produce electricity, and in the process, two sources of environmental pollution can be brought under control. With luck, factories around here can be fitted to take advantage of this within a few years.

Lil devils x:

And on a more entertaining note.. Why are our brains shrinking if we are supposed to be more intelligent than our ancestors? XD
http://discovermagazine.com/2010/sep/25-modern-humans-smart-why-brain-shrinking

For the same reason elephants are not more intelligent than us despite having brains more than five times the size of ours. The principle factor for intelligence is not volume, but complexity. A creature could, in theory, have a brain the size of my fist and be just as intelligent as human beings if said brain was sufficiently complex and efficient. Brain volume has a role as well of course, but it is more tied to control of the body than mental function.

I must admit, I am somewhat perturbed by the trend you mention, but the complexity of the human brain is still going up. I suspect that the shrinking has more to do with the way our current sedentary lifestyle is changing us than anything else

Heronblade:
Of course we have an effect on the environment, and very few people are foolish enough to deny that. Even fewer are willing to deny that the more directly noxious excesses of society are a big problem. (The morons that deny dumping poison into groundwater sources is a bad idea are thankfully very few in number these days) The question, and primary cause of debate, is over just how much of an impact we do have on the Earth's normal meteorological cycle.

To some degree, even that is not the right question. Before making an informed decision about what to do concerning this topic, we need to determine exactly what the impact we do have will cause in the long term. Adjusting things back to the balance we had prior to the industrial age would be ideal, and we certainly should make steps in that direction, but things will never quite be the same again, and we must find a way to compensate intelligently.

Of course, an intelligent discussion is absolutely the last thing we will find among our leadership so long as this remains a party politics issue in their minds.

Speaking of this topic, a student recently found a simple and cheap way to pass smoke through water in order to leech off CO2 and produce carbonic acid. The acid can be used to produce electricity, and in the process, two sources of environmental pollution can be brought under control. With luck, factories around here can be fitted to take advantage of this within a few years.

Lil devils x:

And on a more entertaining note.. Why are our brains shrinking if we are supposed to be more intelligent than our ancestors? XD
http://discovermagazine.com/2010/sep/25-modern-humans-smart-why-brain-shrinking

For the same reason elephants are not more intelligent than us despite having brains more than five times the size of ours. The principle factor for intelligence is not volume, but complexity. A creature could, in theory, have a brain the size of my fist and be just as intelligent as human beings if said brain was sufficiently complex and efficient. Brain volume has a role as well of course, but it is more tied to control of the body than mental function.

I must admit, I am somewhat perturbed by the trend you mention, but the complexity of the human brain is still going up. I suspect that the shrinking has more to do with the way our current sedentary lifestyle is changing us than anything else

Actually, the brain shrinking link was meant in jest. Though now that you mention it, it has peaked my interest. Amittedly, my studies are Immunology and Pediatric medicine, not Neurobiology, so I would very much like to learn more about the increasing of the human brains complexity, as I have not found anything that supports that as of yet. I have found inconclusive studies, but not anything solid. If you have some resources on this, I would very much like to read them. ALl I found was that until recent studies about the brain shrinking, they believed it had been the same size for the past 200,000 years, and that it grew with our intelligence. I would very much like to see the new information on this, but am not finding it at the moment.

Well, of course, the "natural order" thing dictates that if we fuck around with the ecosystems enough and make them too hostile for our own species, we'll get hit with the extinction hammer; the galaxy will wheel on, oblivious, and we'd even not be the first species that would have caused its own extinction, I'd argue. I mean, I don't think a case where a population of predators got large enough to implode because it made its own prey extinct has never happened before, so it's a perfectly natural thing if a species affects the environment to the point it can't live in it anymore.

But, since we humans also possess some capabilities to recognize such stuff is happening, not steering away from causing more such stuff to happen would be kind of stupid.

I don't actually care significantly about the future of our species, and sometimes I even think the VHEMT folks might have the right idea.

Still I don't like it when we as a species do stupid stuff, so I'd really prefer it if we could reach a consensus to not fuck up our environment too much in the name of short-term profits.

It won't matter if the supposed top producers of it India, China, and America don't believe in it along with Australia. Most gases however are caused by cattle which would do the most damage.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/cow-emissions-more-damaging-to-planet-than-co2-from-cars-427843.html

http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/cows-cause-pollution-than-cars

Gergar12:
It won't matter if the supposed top producers of it India, China, and America don't believe in it along with Australia. Most gases however are caused by cattle which would do the most damage.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/cow-emissions-more-damaging-to-planet-than-co2-from-cars-427843.html

http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/cows-cause-pollution-than-cars

So... we boycott beef, and go for goat-based dairy products?

Would that help?

Captcha: grass up

Coppernerves:

Gergar12:
It won't matter if the supposed top producers of it India, China, and America don't believe in it along with Australia. Most gases however are caused by cattle which would do the most damage.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/cow-emissions-more-damaging-to-planet-than-co2-from-cars-427843.html

http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/cows-cause-pollution-than-cars

So... we boycott beef, and go for goat-based dairy products?

Would that help?

Captcha: grass up

Actually, kangaroos are supposed to be much less bad than cows.

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