Explosions at Boston Marathon (Video) 1 Suspect Dead, 1 Injured and in Custody

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Remaining in the US, on average you'd expect something like 40-50 murders in a normal day.

The Saudi-in-custody lead seems pretty weak so far.

A target with lots of international press coverage, on Patriot day(/Israel memorial day) would of course be an attractive goal for Islamic terrorists; but so it would for many other types.

The whole "international press coverage" thing being a potential consideration, along with attacking an athletics events not being in the style of right wing extremist, makes me think it's not grounded in domestic squabbles though. But it could of course just have been some lone nutjob who didn't feel like using a gun. Or an extreme Rayman player!

Danny Ocean:
Meanwhile, in Somalia, 19 people died when gunmen bombed and shot up the Supreme Court. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22143503#TWEET723441

...I'm going to go out on a limb and ascribe that one to Islamic terrorism though.

And when half a nation is controlled by a terrorist organization, terrorist attacks aren't exactly too newsworthy. Yet apparently the BBC reported on it anyway, probably because of the high body count... though I'm more focused on the darkly humorous irony in the existence of a "Supreme Court" in lawless Somalia.

This event raises a couple of thoughts. First my sympathies to the affected party, second the hundreds of people who die to these things daily in other countries that don't get any news coverage as a little bit of perspective for everyone, and thirdly how can someone set off multiple bombs and get this little effect? This is not an attempt at being edgy or anything so please don't even start; but I'm honestly surprised at how few casualties there've been so far unless the "wounded" numbers are mainly filled with criticals.

Smells of amateur work so far, but I'm going to wait for the dust to settle before jumping to any speculation on home-grown terror cells or whatever. What I will say however is "in before the bomb maker is a lone gamer" - because it's not like the majority of the youth (and young adults) plays videogames nowadays.

Karathos:
This event raises a couple of thoughts. First my sympathies to the affected party, second the hundreds of people who die to these things daily in other countries that don't get any news coverage as a little bit of perspective for everyone, and thirdly how can someone set off multiple bombs and get this little effect? This is not an attempt at being edgy or anything so please don't even start; but I'm honestly surprised at how few casualties there've been so far unless the "wounded" numbers are mainly filled with criticals.

Smells of amateur work so far, but I'm going to wait for the dust to settle before jumping to any speculation on home-grown terror cells or whatever. What I will say however is "in before the bomb maker is a lone gamer" - because it's not like the majority of the youth (and young adults) plays videogames nowadays.

Seems like the ball bearings the guy used where placed at the very bottom of the trashcans he put them in. There are a lot of people with legs torn open. If the bag had been placed higher so that it could go for someone's chest or stomach there would probably be far more causalities. Also I believe there was supposed to be two more explosions but one was remotely detonated by police and the other failed to go off.

Though I'd like to think 99.9% of the world is amateur at creating deadly explosives and using them to effect so he probably was an amateur.

Imperator_DK:
The Saudi-in-custody lead seems pretty weak so far.
.

Too true so far. I have heard that "someone's" apartment was searched and a number of trash bags of stuff is being analyzed. His?

What I heard is that he was in the middle of cell phone call, other stander's by tackled him as he saw them coming an ran. A 3rd device failed to detonate.

I also read 12 were dead. The real number sadly enough so far, is 3. A lot of wrong thinking being published out there so it is hard to know what to believe.

One murdered was an 8 year old boy. There is a meme going around about an 8 year old girl too. Anyone know anything about the other 2 deceased?

Me, mine, and my community are devastated. We are praying for the victims and those related to them.

Gorfias:
...
Too true so far. I have heard that "someone's" apartment was searched and a number of trash bags of stuff is being analyzed. His?

What I heard is that he was in the middle of cell phone call, other stander's by tackled him as he saw them coming an ran. A 3rd device failed to detonate.
...

Guy making a cell phone call, and running away from a bomb site, doesn't give much indication of anything. It'd certainly not be surprising if this was the work of one or more Saudi Salafist Muslims, but the current information seems much too vague and circumstantial to actually point there.

Though an unusually long silence on something can of course say something in itself. If there was something pointing to neo-nazis, I doubt the info would be as restricted and the statements as careful.

Imperator_DK:

Gorfias:
...
Too true so far. I have heard that "someone's" apartment was searched and a number of trash bags of stuff is being analyzed. His?

What I heard is that he was in the middle of cell phone call, other stander's by tackled him as he saw them coming an ran. A 3rd device failed to detonate.
...

Guy making a cell phone call, and running away from a bomb site, doesn't give much indication of anything. It'd certainly not be surprising if this was the work of one or more Saudi Salafist Muslims, but the current information seems much too vague and circumstantial to actually point there.

Though an unusually long silence on something can of course say something in itself. If there was something pointing to neo-nazis, I doubt the info would be as restricted and the statements as careful.

The making a call, running away from people running at you all seem normal. I would love to hear more from the people that did the chasing. Why did they do that?

While I am anti-gun control, I worry an anti-control gun-nut did this too. Newton Ct. family members were there. They may have had prepared statements for those willing to listen.

If this was political, it only works if someone credibly claims responsibility. I've heard nothing, but would love to deny them a megaphone too, even if it supported my interests. Damn them.

Gorfias:
The making a call, running away from people running at you all seem normal. I would love to hear more from the people that did the chasing. Why did they do that?

My guess, after the bombing and with feelings running high, a bunch of over-enthusiastic people jumped the first vaguely suspicious person they found. You see this happen with trained police officers, and it often ends in someone getting shot.

thaluikhain:

Gorfias:
The making a call, running away from people running at you all seem normal. I would love to hear more from the people that did the chasing. Why did they do that?

My guess, after the bombing and with feelings running high, a bunch of over-enthusiastic people jumped the first vaguely suspicious person they found. You see this happen with trained police officers, and it often ends in someone getting shot.

Famously it happened here in the UK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

It's interesting that no one has claimed responsibility for the attack, which i think makes it even more unlikely it was the work of Islamists, or any extreme far right group inside the US. It's probably the work of one or a couple of individuals who've gone into hiding. As for their motives it's hard to say- could be outright insanity, political extremism or a mixture of both really.

Nickolai77:
As for their motives it's hard to say- could be outright insanity, political extremism or a mixture of both really.

Most likely not actual insanity. The words "crazy", "insane" and so on will get thrown around, and there'll possibly be calls to lock up the mentally ill (again), but generally the mentally ill are more likely to be the victims, rather than the perpetrators, of crimes.

thaluikhain:
My guess, after the bombing and with feelings running high, a bunch of over-enthusiastic people jumped the first vaguely suspicious person they found. You see this happen with trained police officers, and it often ends in someone getting shot.

Yeah, if by "vaguely suspicious person" you mean "racial minority".

I'm curious what motivated this attack. The location and timing of the bombs strikes me as odd.

I feel I need to post this due to the amount of incorrect information going around. According to the state governor no additional devices were ever found, those were false reports

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22171684

Gorfias:

One murdered was an 8 year old boy. There is a meme going around about an 8 year old girl too. Anyone know anything about the other 2 deceased?

The following CNN article has a pair of alleged witnesses who describes a "young lady" as having "expired", this would tally up with a couple of the photos I saw yesterday that appeared to contain a deceased woman, no clue about her identity though.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/15/us/boston-bombings-injuries/?iref=obinsite

Relevant part:

CNN:
Theresa Panter, who had been running in the marathon, describe the scene as she approached the finishing line.

"When I heard the bomb and saw the reaction of the spectators, I was just alarmed. Then I was pushed back by a spectator and then a Boston Athletic official -- he grabbed a bunch of us and pushed us back. It was pretty upsetting."

Her husband, Dr. Allan Panter, was in the crowd and described how he ended up tending to people on the streets.

"I saw at least six to seven people down next to me -- they protected me from the blast. One lady expired, one gentleman lost both his limbs, his lower extremities. Most of the injuries were mainly lower extremity injuries.

"I could not figure out why the young lady had expired, I could not find any injury on her thorax."

Edit: NBC news has backed this up further, claiming a woman in her 20's was among the deceased:

"In 28 years, this is definitely the worst I've seen," said Chief Ron Harrington of the Boston Fire Department's District 3. "Bodies and body parts. Blood all over. A little boy lying in the street. A young woman in her 20s. Both dead. It was mayhem. I saw two people with arms hanging loose, and one without a leg. A shoe with flesh still in it."

Imperator_DK:

Danny Ocean:
Meanwhile, in Somalia, 19 people died when gunmen bombed and shot up the Supreme Court. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22143503#TWEET723441

...I'm going to go out on a limb and ascribe that one to Islamic terrorism though.

And when half a nation is controlled by a terrorist organization, terrorist attacks aren't exactly too newsworthy. Yet apparently the BBC reported on it anyway, probably because of the high body count... though I'm more focused on the darkly humorous irony in the existence of a "Supreme Court" in lawless Somalia.

That doesnt make those deaths any less tragic. people dieing in any country whether it be due to disease, poverty, murder, terrorism, war or natural disaster is horrible and should not be trivialised because its in a country where its still common

manic_depressive13:

thaluikhain:
My guess, after the bombing and with feelings running high, a bunch of over-enthusiastic people jumped the first vaguely suspicious person they found. You see this happen with trained police officers, and it often ends in someone getting shot.

Yeah, if by "vaguely suspicious person" you mean "racial minority".

I'm curious what motivated this attack. The location and timing of the bombs strikes me as odd.

well that depends. if assuming this an act of terrorism than its done an effective job at spreading terror

manic_depressive13:

thaluikhain:
My guess, after the bombing and with feelings running high, a bunch of over-enthusiastic people jumped the first vaguely suspicious person they found. You see this happen with trained police officers, and it often ends in someone getting shot.

Yeah, if by "vaguely suspicious person" you mean "racial minority".

Well, yeah...if by "racial minority" you mean "one of those racial minority". Nobody is going to immediately jump at the Filipinos or the Inuit.

spartandude:

Imperator_DK:
The Saudi-in-custody lead seems pretty weak so far.

A target with lots of international press coverage, on Patriot day(/Israel memorial day) would of course be an attractive goal for Islamic terrorists; but so it would for many other types.

The whole "international press coverage" thing being a potential consideration, along with attacking an athletics events not being in the style of right wing extremist, makes me think it's not grounded in domestic squabbles though. But it could of course just have been some lone nutjob who didn't feel like using a gun. Or an extreme Rayman player!

Danny Ocean:
Meanwhile, in Somalia, 19 people died when gunmen bombed and shot up the Supreme Court. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22143503#TWEET723441

...I'm going to go out on a limb and ascribe that one to Islamic terrorism though.

And when half a nation is controlled by a terrorist organization, terrorist attacks aren't exactly too newsworthy. Yet apparently the BBC reported on it anyway, probably because of the high body count... though I'm more focused on the darkly humorous irony in the existence of a "Supreme Court" in lawless Somalia.

That doesnt make those deaths any less tragic. people dieing in any country whether it be due to disease, poverty, murder, terrorism, war or natural disaster is horrible and should not be trivialised because its in a country where its still common

The criteria for newsworthyness have little to do with that though.

And what do you wager those killed would have little trouble with seeing an atheist gay women's rights activist criticising Mohammed killed, and were hence themselves unworthy of life?

thaluikhain:

manic_depressive13:

thaluikhain:
My guess, after the bombing and with feelings running high, a bunch of over-enthusiastic people jumped the first vaguely suspicious person they found. You see this happen with trained police officers, and it often ends in someone getting shot.

Yeah, if by "vaguely suspicious person" you mean "racial minority".

Well, yeah...if by "racial minority" you mean "one of those racial minority". Nobody is going to immediately jump at the Filipinos or the Inuit.

Filipinos can be pretty brown so if there weren't a conveniently middle-eastern looking man in the right place I'm sure they would have settled for one of those. Regardless of which racial minority they belong to, it's no reason to tackle and detain someone. It's genuinely disturbing that such a thing would happen.

thaluikhain:

manic_depressive13:

thaluikhain:
My guess, after the bombing and with feelings running high, a bunch of over-enthusiastic people jumped the first vaguely suspicious person they found. You see this happen with trained police officers, and it often ends in someone getting shot.

Yeah, if by "vaguely suspicious person" you mean "racial minority".

Well, yeah...if by "racial minority" you mean "one of those racial minority". Nobody is going to immediately jump at the Filipinos or the Inuit.

waiting on more info. They guy that got jumped: is he the one that had a number of bags removed from his apartment? What do they show.

Presumption of innocence. But I look forward to hearing more. But my understanding to date:

Bombs set off by cell phone;
Suspect trying to make a cell phone call interrupted by mob;
3rd bomb did not go off.

I want the right guy caught and punished for this, even if he, like me, is pro-gun and was objecting to Newton speakers. We'll see what happens. I hope.

No proper information as yet? Damn. I'll keep waiting for news updates, but this is kind of odd. Where are the folks taking responsibility for the act? Where are the manifestos or statements or whatever? I'm highly doubtful this was Islamists. They take responsibility for their "just war" almost immediately when they do something. Plus, would they choose this particular date? I'd really like to know more about this.

Imperator_DK:

And what do you wager those killed would have little trouble with seeing an atheist gay women's rights activist criticising Mohammed killed, and were hence themselves unworthy of life?

I'm not sure that I get what you're saying--possibly because I haven't had enough coffee. Could you clarify your statement, please?

OT: I agree that without any solid evidence it's too early to point fingers. US extremists of one flavor or another, international terrorists, etc.

Heck, one of the first things that came to mind when the news broke yesterday was the ruling in Gaza (I think it was Gaza) forbidding women from participating in races because they exposed too much of themselves even when wearing pants and not just shorts.

It's up in the air right now.

Copper Zen:

Imperator_DK:

And what do you wager those killed would have little trouble with seeing an atheist gay women's rights activist criticising Mohammed killed, and were hence themselves unworthy of life?

I'm not sure that I get what you're saying--possibly because I haven't had enough coffee. Could you clarify your statement, please?
...

Do you ask as a fellow poster, or as a moderator?

If the former, I'll happily expand upon my reciprocity oriented approach to justice and worth. If the latter, you need concern yourself no further with my posting here, as I'm not partial to implicit threats if having the wrong religious or political views.

Imperator_DK:

Do you ask as a fellow poster, or as a moderator?

If the former, I'll happily expand upon my reciprocity oriented approach to justice and worth. If the latter, you need concern yourself no further with my posting here, as I'm not partial to implicit threats if having the wrong religious or political views.

I'm not much for implying threats. I decided straight away when I accepted the Mod-job to approach this job as a peace maker rather than a Hammer Happy wrathful Mod.

I just can't wrap my mind around your statement.

Copper Zen:

Imperator_DK:

And what do you wager those killed would have little trouble with seeing an atheist gay women's rights activist criticising Mohammed killed, and were hence themselves unworthy of life?

I'm not sure that I get what you're saying--possibly because I haven't had enough coffee. Could you clarify your statement, please?

OT: I agree that without any solid evidence it's too early to point fingers. US extremists of one flavor or another, international terrorists, etc.

Heck, one of the first things that came to mind when the news broke yesterday was the ruling in Gaza (I think it was Gaza) forbidding women from participating in races because they exposed too much of themselves even when wearing pants and not just shorts.

It's up in the air right now.

.
It was Gaza, it was some UNWRA charity marathon event, and Hamas wouldn't allow women to participate.

Imperator has.... strong, negative feelings towards some of the less liberal segments of humanity, in particular those following the Abrahamic faiths, especially the ones who follow Mohamed. Incredibly strong, negative feelings.

Second victim identified as Krystle Campbell, 29, a restaurant manager from Arlington. Almost certainly the mystery woman in her twenties, leaving the third victim still unknown. Considering how we only heard about the woman and the kid's deaths from the eyewitnesses, I'm betting the third victim died in hospital. That would explain why the apparent death toll rose from 2 to 3 as well.

Link

Copper Zen:
I just can't wrap my mind around your statement.

It's pretty clear what he's saying. He has said similar things when a Muslim mob rampaged through a Christian neighbourhood, from a news article a little while ago; can't remember the country right now, unfortunately, but it was a few weeks back.
He thinks that adherents to such ideologies sort of lose their rights to protection from persecution because they themselves persecute others viciously also. That's the point about reciprocity he made there.
He's ignoring, of course, that such a presumption of guilt is out of bounds. Neither those Christians then nor these Muslims here are necessarily oppressors just because they follow ideologies that have and still do oppress others. Nor would it mean that - even if they were oppressors - the injustices done against them would be just. Personally, I don't agree with the whole "two wrongs make a right"-idea.

I don't agree with his overgeneralized approach, but I do understand what he means when he says it, I think.

cahtush:
It was Pakistan.

Ah, right. Thanks!

Skeleon:

Copper Zen:
I just can't wrap my mind around your statement.

It's pretty clear what he's saying. He has said similar things when a Muslim mob rampaged through a Christian neighbourhood, from a news article a little while ago; can't remember the country right now, unfortunately, but it was a few weeks back.
He thinks that adherents to such ideologies sort of lose their rights to protection from persecution because they themselves persecute others viciously also. That's the point about reciprocity he made there.
He's ignoring, of course, that such a presumption of guilt is out of bounds. Neither those Christians then nor these Muslims here are necessarily oppressors just because they follow ideologies that have and still do oppress others.
I don't agree with such an overgeneralized approach, but I do understand what he means when he says it.

It was Pakistan.

In this case it seems to be since they were (presumably) ok with someone else being killed, their deaths should not be cared about.
That would leave very few people left to be cared about.
I'm pretty sure that none here can, with honesty, say that there no one they would not mind dying.

Apparently the Saudi guy is being treated as a witness rather than a suspect, there goes one lead. Could still be other Muslims of course, apparently the bomb was made from a pressure cooker and ball-bearings, similar to known Al-Qaeda techniques.

Link 1
Link 2

cahtush:

Skeleon:

Copper Zen:
I just can't wrap my mind around your statement.

It's pretty clear what he's saying. He has said similar things when a Muslim mob rampaged through a Christian neighbourhood, from a news article a little while ago; can't remember the country right now, unfortunately, but it was a few weeks back.
He thinks that adherents to such ideologies sort of lose their rights to protection from persecution because they themselves persecute others viciously also. That's the point about reciprocity he made there.
He's ignoring, of course, that such a presumption of guilt is out of bounds. Neither those Christians then nor these Muslims here are necessarily oppressors just because they follow ideologies that have and still do oppress others.
I don't agree with such an overgeneralized approach, but I do understand what he means when he says it.

It was Pakistan.

In this case it seems to be since they were (presumably) ok with someone else being killed, their deaths should not be mourned.
That would leave very few people left to be mourned.
I'm pretty sure that none here can, with honesty, say that there no one they would not mind dying.

Is that a problem? Is mourning something that we should see as 'good'? It seems like a waste of time and energy.

For example, when I found my grandfather's body (he passed in his sleep), the very first thing I did was call 911. The second thing I did was call his boss, informed him of my grandfather's death, and told him that I would be replacing my grandfather. Which is how I got my job. Which is a very nice job, as it happens.

Copper Zen:
...
I just can't wrap my mind around your statement.

Skeleon already explained "reciprocity", though not my reason for embracing it. Which is that I don't believe human worth to be objective or godgiven, but intersubjective; Something which is created in and dependant on the interaction with and treatment of the innocent[1]. It is my conviction that one can have no more worth or deserve a better fate than one is willing to accord innocent others. Thus a person who have no trouble with people being executed for being gay or the like is reciprocally unworthy of life, with as little need to mourn their deaths as they'd show over the execution of the innocent.

I obviously disagree with the "over-generalization" part though, i.e. the idea that just because people claim to believe (in) something, it can't actually be assumed that they do so. Religion is conceptually a system of shared beliefs. Hence there must be dogmatic beliefs to share. It is by definition and (theo)logical necessity not a personal pick-and-choose buffet, from which the individual adherent can simply take a few elements, and disregard those which he personally don't feel like embracing. Hence one must look to the authoritative dogmatic sources when determining the views of a religious person, at least if you're according him the respect of actually taking seriously his claim of being religious.

Hence I take the religious at their word, spoken through the scriptures until they might speak for themselves. I fully recognize that it might well be that they don't actually mean them in their heart of hearts, but that's their responsibility to clarify, not mine. They are responsible for their scripture, willingly chosen, and for all the views it features. And shall be treated in accordance with the very lowest standard it sets for treating the innocent. Which with Abrahamic scriptures in particular is usually very low.

[1] Understood as anyone who doesn't inflict harm on others. For instance, a "gay" is innocent because homosexual relationships don't harm anyone. A gay person might not overall be innocent in all kind of other regardss, but those who condemn them for being "gay" are condemning "innocents".

Kopikatsu:

Is that a problem? Is mourning something that we should see as 'good'? It seems like a waste of time and energy.

For example, when I found my grandfather's body (he passed in his sleep), the very first thing I did was call 911. The second thing I did was call his boss, informed him of my grandfather's death, and told him that I would be replacing my grandfather. Which is how I got my job. Which is a very nice job, as it happens.


"Mourn" was perhaps a bad choice of words on my part, "caring about" is probably better. Will Edit now.

Imperator_DK:
snip

I understand better, now, thanks. Like I said I wasn't sure if I'd had enough coffee. :)

JoJo:
Apparently the Saudi guy is being treated as a witness rather than a suspect, there goes one lead. Could still be other Muslims of course, apparently the bomb was made from a pressure cooker and ball-bearings, similar to known Al-Qaeda techniques.

Link 1
Link 2

With all those pictures of Mohammud Hassan Bada, 20, in that Daily News story I just know that that kid is going to become the focus for a lot of spinal reflex hate and harassment simply for being identified, pictured, and talked about.

*sighs*

JoJo:
Apparently the Saudi guy is being treated as a witness rather than a suspect, there goes one lead. Could still be other Muslims of course, apparently the bomb was made from a pressure cooker and ball-bearings, similar to known Al-Qaeda techniques.

Link 1
Link 2

It's also published on the internet (the famous "Make a bomb in the kitchen of your mom" article published in alQaeda's Inspire online magazine), which means pretty much anyone with an internet connection and basic technical knowledge could have made it. It might as well have been a device out of the infamous Anarchist Cookbook for all the good it could do at tracing the design style will do.

The sophistication of the device, however, does suggest an individual or small group rather than a large organization with the logistical support that could procure more effective and powerful explosive devices.

The good thing about speculations is that it's easily discerned who people want it to have been.

And of course, unless their "suspicions" are confirmed, the government is in on it, too!

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