Is God Good?

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A basic question that I've been wondering about; What basis is there in scriptures for God actually being 'good'?
And even so, how are we to understand what 'good' means? Is our concept of 'good' the same as Gods? If not, that would be a suitable explanation to the TheodicÚ-problem.

An all powerful being that is beyond human comprehension, that to those who don't worship can either see said god as villain, in between, or good. Compare to those who worship who depending on lore is either villain, in between, or good. Easiest thing to do is to look up lore, compare it to past historical culture value's, and current culture value's that is being taught in said faith groups. Considering that say Old Testament/ Torah tended to teach a value lesson, like the tale's of yore.

If there is an omnipotent god, then it seems It is neither good nor evil, merely indifferent.

Lets see.. In the olden days being gay and having sex with random people was bad. So when god commited genocide on an entire people who did those things that is one of the examples of him doing mankind a favor. Aka, Just. Which is what he was in the Ye-Olde Testament 'THE JUDGE'. Not a good-guy, but a JUST guy. The guy who did the things that had to be done, which also included sending entire armies used by his followers to burn cities and rape women and children, or send angry bears to eat children for calling one of his priests bald but then again... I tend to take everything from that Testament with a grain of salt.

In the new one he is shown as a loving god 'THE FATHER', and is good because he sacrificed his own son so that we wouldn't go to hell to be tortured for all eternity, as-well as forgiving all wrong we do because he is forgiving.

When Christ was on the Cross, what was it exactly that he did to all those Romans and Jews around them? Aye, I know God punished them with righteous earthquake afterwards, but that wasn't really a killer. The main point there was, he forgave them. He turned the cheek to them killing him, and didn't condemn them to a hell. Which kinda shows that both Roman and Jewish heathens had a place up there in the skies, despite being blindly loyal soldiers and dirty criminals.

Some Christians tend to forget that they are part of the Christian Faith which follows the word of CHRIST and still insist people who don't follow god will go to hell despite Jesus dying for our sins.

Those people are idiots, who know nothing of Christianity.

It depends which god you are talking about.

A god that i would imagine governs this reality is obviously independent as ShipOfFools pointed out regardless of what the bible says. Good things happen. Bad things happen. The system never favors either one at all and theres never been an instance of proven instance where the laws of nature are bent to cause good or bad. The natural laws of the universe and the nature of humans causes a great deal of good and bad and theres not really an outside source involved at all in causing that. People have a moral imperative from within and sometimes it wavers or is broken. So god, if it exists, is pretty much obviously impartial to the workings of the world.

The literal biblical old testament god though gets up to some weird and unnecessary acts that are blatantly immoral. Its not as though it desires evil though it just legitimately seems too stupid to think of a different way to solve problems other than mass murder or bears eating children or whatever. It seems a LOT like a few people got around and tried to problem solve using the powers of a god and didnt think very far beyond "KILL EVERYONE PEW PEW PEW" and then wrote that shit down as what god did in the situations they described.

From the bible I'd say god is more terrifying and awe inspiring than good. More like gravity than anything human. If you stay on the ground and don't fall over then gravity is a-ok but walk off a cliff and gravity suddenly isn't so fun anymore. God from the bible is more like Chtulhu than the old man in the clouds.

God isn't good or evil. Just god and you worship him because then he might be a little nicer to you and eventually reward you. Sometimes he does things that may seem extremely evil to a person, like wiping out a city. In the same way I'm sure that anthill I poisoned yesterday would think of me as evil incarnate if they could think. Of course if they could think I might have tried to tell them not to go into my kitchen and saved the ones that didn't. Might even build a new anthill and keep them fed.

That is of course based on the god out of the bible. If there is a god there is no saying that the acts attributed to him in the bible and other religious works are accurate. Or that they are even descriptions of interactions with this god and not another fictional god. Or just another god. If there is one god who says not two? Ahh, philosophy.

Realitycrash:
A basic question that I've been wondering about; What basis is there in scriptures for God actually being 'good'?
And even so, how are we to understand what 'good' means? Is our concept of 'good' the same as Gods? If not, that would be a suitable explanation to the TheodicÚ-problem.

Good is subjective, dependant on culture.
The Mycenaean Greeks thought that slavery was a good equaliser, the Romans thought that conquest and genocide was good because it was expedient, the Huns thought that forcing the Vandals south and west was good because they were better fighters, the Vandals thought sacking Rome was at least justified because it owed them land.
Early Christians thought that death by Legionary colleagues rather than offering to idols was good, later Christians thought that fighting for survival was good. Later ones still thought that rampaging through the middle east was good because they were fighting heathens, and then later again killing becomes bad once more.

The Abrahamic faiths try to argue against subjective morals, but they hit a wall when, say, the Old Testament advocates genocide, and the New advocates love thy neighbour and turn the other cheek.
The reality is that both of these books are products of their times:
The Old Testament is a historical perspective of a bloody and barbaric time, and it's teachings essentially guarantee the continued control of the religious authorities (convenient given they're the ones that wrote it)
The New Testament are the authorised chronicles of a progressive man who tried to improve things by invoking a new kind of religious fervour in Judea.
I say authorised, because even they were messed with, when certain gospels weren't considered suitable for inclusion because they taught things that weren't considered good by the time it was compiled, 300-odd years later.

But yeah, if god were to exist, it couldn't be good in any sense we understand, because it seems to change it's mind so bloody much!

OneCatch :

Realitycrash:
A basic question that I've been wondering about; What basis is there in scriptures for God actually being 'good'?
And even so, how are we to understand what 'good' means? Is our concept of 'good' the same as Gods? If not, that would be a suitable explanation to the TheodicÚ-problem.

Good is subjective, dependant on culture.
The Mycenaean Greeks thought that slavery was a good equaliser, the Romans thought that conquest and genocide was good because it was expedient, the Huns thought that forcing the Vandals south and west was good because they were better fighters, the Vandals thought sacking Rome was at least justified because it owed them land.
Early Christians thought that death by Legionary colleagues rather than offering to idols was good, later Christians thought that fighting for survival was good. Later ones still thought that rampaging through the middle east was good because they were fighting heathens, and then later again killing becomes bad once more.

The Abrahamic faiths try to argue against subjective morals, but they hit a wall when, say, the Old Testament advocates genocide, and the New advocates love thy neighbour and turn the other cheek.
The reality is that both of these books are products of their times:
The Old Testament is a historical perspective of a bloody and barbaric time, and it's teachings essentially guarantee the continued control of the religious authorities (convenient given they're the ones that wrote it)
The New Testament are the authorised chronicles of a progressive man who tried to improve things by invoking a new kind of religious fervour in Judea.
I say authorised, because even they were messed with, when certain gospels weren't considered suitable for inclusion because they taught things that weren't considered good by the time it was compiled, 300-odd years later.

But yeah, if god were to exist, it couldn't be good in any sense we understand, because it seems to change it's mind so bloody much!

But religion doesn't view Good and Evil as subjective. So do we have any actual scripture which quotes God as good?

BiscuitTrouser:
It depends which god you are talking about.

A god that i would imagine governs this reality is obviously independent as ShipOfFools pointed out regardless of what the bible says. Good things happen. Bad things happen. The system never favors either one at all and theres never been an instance of proven instance where the laws of nature are bent to cause good or bad. The natural laws of the universe and the nature of humans causes a great deal of good and bad and theres not really an outside source involved at all in causing that. People have a moral imperative from within and sometimes it wavers or is broken. So god, if it exists, is pretty much obviously impartial to the workings of the world.

The literal biblical old testament god though gets up to some weird and unnecessary acts that are blatantly immoral. Its not as though it desires evil though it just legitimately seems too stupid to think of a different way to solve problems other than mass murder or bears eating children or whatever. It seems a LOT like a few people got around and tried to problem solve using the powers of a god and didnt think very far beyond "KILL EVERYONE PEW PEW PEW" and then wrote that shit down as what god did in the situations they described.

But Christian literature and philosophy wants to depict him as Good, and not indifferent, but what I wonder is where they got the justification for it? Surely they must have a reason for thinking so.

Define "good". Some people define it as relating to God, but under most definitions, God is most definitely evil.

Ignoring for the moment on how we define good, and whether it is objective or subjective, there are some bible quotes[1] that say he is good. Psalms 100:5 is a pretty direct one.

[1] This is assuming we're only talking about the Christian god here.

Realitycrash:

OneCatch :

But religion doesn't view Good and Evil as subjective. So do we have any actual scripture which quotes God as good?

BiscuitTrouser:

But Christian literature and philosophy wants to depict him as Good, and not indifferent, but what I wonder is where they got the justification for it? Surely they must have a reason for thinking so.

Not that I can remember come to think of it. It's been ages since I read the Bible though, so there may be some explicit definition of goodness somewhere.
I can't really think of one that would work consistently though because old and new testaments are morally opposed to each other.

What's more interesting is how belief in gods have been used to persuade people that things are moral or immoral, rather than people deciding whether god itself is moral or immoral.
And on that front, there's almost always a correlation between actions that threaten the church or establishment and declarations of objective immorality!

Realitycrash:

But religion doesn't view Good and Evil as subjective. So do we have any actual scripture which quotes God as good?

Psalm 100:5, which Jux beat me to the punch on.

I don't know if that means good the way we understand the word, if memory serves "good" in the original language can range from good as we understand it, to something more akin to "functional".

If one accepts god as the objective lawgiver or whatever the phrasing is, then one would have to accept god is "good" since god defines what is "good". Of course the whole objective morality thing is hopelessly flawed, but if you accept that part then its almost a given to see god as "good". I'm sure there are other ways to reach that conclusion however.

Realitycrash:
So do we have any actual scripture which quotes God as good?

Romans 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Psalm 136:26 Give thanks to the God of heaven, for his steadfast love endures forever.

John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

-QUOTE FROM GOD-
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

-QUOTE FROM GOD-

The Christian faith thinks god as more of a Mother than a Father, funny enough. Unconditional love. Which brings me to

You may not know me, but I know everything about you.
Psalm 139:1

I know when you sit down and when you rise up.
Psalm 139:2

I am familiar with all your ways.
Psalm 139:3

Even the very hairs on your head are numbered.
Matthew 10:29-31

For you were made in my image.
Genesis 1:27

In me you live and move and have your being.
Acts 17:28

For you are my offspring.
Acts 17:28

I knew you even before you were conceived.
Jeremiah 1:4-5

I chose you when I planned creation.
Ephesians 1:11-12

You were not a mistake, for all your days are written in my book.
Psalm 139:15-16

I determined the exact time of your birth and where you would live.
Acts 17:26

You are fearfully and wonderfully made.
Psalm 139:14

I knit you together in your mother's womb.
Psalm 139:13

And brought you forth on the day you were born.
Psalm 71:6

I have been misrepresented by those who don't know me.
John 8:41-44

I am not distant and angry, but am the complete expression of love.
1 John 4:16

And it is my desire to lavish my love on you.
1 John 3:1

Simply because you are my child and I am your Father.
1 John 3:1

I offer you more than your earthly father ever could.
Matthew 7:11

For I am the perfect father.
Matthew 5:48

Every good gift that you receive comes from my hand.
James 1:17

For I am your provider and I meet all your needs.
Matthew 6:31-33

My plan for your future has always been filled with hope.
Jeremiah 29:11

Because I love you with an everlasting love.
Jeremiah 31:3

My thoughts toward you are countless as the sand on the seashore.
Psalms 139:17-18

And I rejoice over you with singing.
Zephaniah 3:17

I will never stop doing good to you.
Jeremiah 32:40

For you are my treasured possession.
Exodus 19:5

I desire to establish you with all my heart and all my soul.
Jeremiah 32:41

And I want to show you great and marvelous things.
Jeremiah 33:3

If you seek me with all your heart, you will find me.
Deuteronomy 4:29

Delight in me and I will give you the desires of your heart.
Psalm 37:4

For it is I who gave you those desires.
Philippians 2:13

I am able to do more for you than you could possibly imagine.
Ephesians 3:20

For I am your greatest encourager.
2 Thessalonians 2:16-17

I am also the Father who comforts you in all your troubles.
2 Corinthians 1:3-4

When you are brokenhearted, I am close to you.
Psalm 34:18

As a shepherd carries a lamb, I have carried you close to my heart.
Isaiah 40:11

One day I will wipe away every tear from your eyes.
Revelation 21:3-4

And I'll take away all the pain you have suffered on this earth.
Revelation 21:3-4

I am your Father, and I love you even as I love my son, Jesus.
John 17:23

For in Jesus, my love for you is revealed.
John 17:26

He is the exact representation of my being.
Hebrews 1:3

He came to demonstrate that I am for you,
not against you.
Romans 8:31

And to tell you that I am not counting your sins.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19

Jesus died so that you and I could be reconciled.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19

His death was the ultimate expression of my love for you.
1 John 4:10

I gave up everything I loved that I might gain your love.
Romans 8:31-32

If you receive the gift of my son Jesus, you receive me.
1 John 2:23

And nothing will ever separate you from my love again.
Romans 8:38-39

Come home and I'll throw the biggest party
heaven has ever seen.
Luke 15:7

I have always been Father, and will always be Father.
Ephesians 3:14-15

My question is...
Will you be my child?
John 1:12-13

I am waiting for you.
Luke 15:11-32

Actually now he just sounds like a creepy stalker. That being said-

None of those things is him or others saying that he is 'good'. However I've taken the liberty of thinking love as the Christian objective good here.

The important thing here is not how much people love him, but about how he is the god of Love and Welfare and not the god of Justice. He is not a judge as much as he is a... Lover?

Nikolaz72:

The important thing here is not how much people love him, but about how he is the god of Love and Welfare and not the god of Justice. He is not a judge as much as he is a... Lover?

He's not a fighter, he's a lover.
..But the kid is his son.

OT: Alright, so we have scripture quotes which defines him as 'good'. I guess we're stuck with the Theodice-problem anyway.

If there was a god, he would be a god of the machine and praying to him would be like praying to the laws of gravity.

Considering God's ways are mysterious, he's totally beyond us etc., it's safe to say that he couldn't be considered "good" in any human way. But I suppose his overall plan could hypothetically be benevolent in some manner. Obviously he appears to be okay with a lot of broken eggs along the way towards his tasty omelette, though, whatever it may look like in the end.

If it is the same god that has made hunger, disease and death then he is an enemy of the people and our ultimate goal should be to destroy him.

The concept of Theodicy. Took a class on that in college. Intriguing concept, yes.

God gave man free will. By in so doing, He will not intervene unless He sees it necessary to invoke His wrath or His grace.

Big_Willie_Styles:
The concept of Theodicy. Took a class on that in college. Intriguing concept, yes.

God gave man free will. By in so doing, He will not intervene unless He sees it necessary to invoke His wrath or His grace.

...So, whenever it suits him?

Realitycrash:
A basic question that I've been wondering about; What basis is there in scriptures for God actually being 'good'?
And even so, how are we to understand what 'good' means? Is our concept of 'good' the same as Gods? If not, that would be a suitable explanation to the TheodicÚ-problem.

Which one?

And no, to "is our concept...", I'd think the difference in scale would have to radically change outlook. Just adding near- or completely eternal lifespan alone is going to radically change outlook, even if a deity was otherwise a human being. I think it's impossible for us to truly comprehend that viewpoint, even if we can attempt to imagine it. That said, religion is still a relationship and it's still down to the human to take what information that's available about a particular deity and decide if they want to get in bed, metaphorically speaking, with this being (and perhaps more pertinently, their fan club) or not.

I'm certain there are times that God has performed "good" deeds but as a whole? This is a guy who supposedly drowned EVERYONE apart from a single family because they weren't behaving like he wanted them to. Of course there's no evidence of him having a conversation with each one and telling them frankly "Hey, you should really stop doing that because it's not in your best interests. If you keep it up you might suffer from a severe case of 'breathing water' if you get me?"

Naw, just told one guy to build a boat then drowned everyone else.

Then there's the killing lots of folks again... and again... and again.

Claims of complete power, demands for love, punishment for disobedience is supposedly the most horrific thing ever. Oh, he also only talks to white people or folks in certain parts of the world and not others. He also doesn't actually explain himself despite people having very good reasons to doubt him ever existing - if he was all powerful and all knowing one would think a man shouldn't trust another man's word about who the true god is. I believe he said something about "worshipping false idols", which one is the false one again?

I'm not convinced he's good or evil, I think if god was true he is simply crazy.

If I believed God existed then I'd say he's an evil despot but since I don't believe he exists then calling God good or evil would be an act of futility for me.

Hitchens on how God is like Kim Il-Sung https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eefS0gayKFc

If we're quoting scripture, here's a few about slavery:

Leviticus 25:44-46
44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. 45 You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. 46 You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

Ephesians 6:5
5 Bondservants,[a] obey your earthly masters[b] with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,

Colossians 3:22
22 Bondservants,[a] obey in everything those who are your earthly masters,[b] not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.

Peter 2:18
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust.

The question is far too general to be answerable. First off, which of the 7 X 10^23 versions of god are you speaking of? Secondly, by what standard would you choose to judge such a being? Finally, how do you know the being in question is fairly and accurately represented by people around here?

In the interest of actually answering the question however...

From my own perspective as an individual who strongly values justice, equality, and most of all integrity in leadership, I would describe the god most of the more vocal Christians preach about as a despotic and vengeful tyrant at best.

Other versions can be significantly more palatable, but few really measure up to what I would consider a responsible and caring ruler.

Realitycrash:

Big_Willie_Styles:
The concept of Theodicy. Took a class on that in college. Intriguing concept, yes.

God gave man free will. By in so doing, He will not intervene unless He sees it necessary to invoke His wrath or His grace.

...So, whenever it suits him?

Nice job pulling only the things you want outta that one. Very well done.

If you're referring to the character in judeo-christian mythology, then by all means he is down right evil. He commits genocide, advocates the killing of innocent people (or for people who did rather minor things), uses biological warfare - The only thing more disturbing than the character is that the writers meant for him to be looked up to as a THE moral figure.

If God exists, who can do anything and knows all, creating that exists, while being above all forms of existence, can make "himself" good.

So, God decrees himself as good. Since God would be the defining factor of the entire universe, able to do anything, God has now made himself good. Either that or has changed goodness so it would fit that decree.

It comes out to be a fairly circular argument. Of course, when your dealing with something that is literally ALL powerful, views time non-linearly, and is the creator of all things and concepts, including morals, logical progression does not apply.

Now, is the God of the Bible good, that is a whole different question. The difference with the currently accepted Islamic/Christian/Judaic monotheistic God is that the God of the Torah/Old Testament actually often isn't all powerful.

"And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
-Judges 1:19

Yeah, being defeated by a hunk of iron on wheels does not scream "omnipotent" to me. If God isn't omnipotent anymore, god no longer can decree his own, goodness. Of course, we need to have an universal code of morals to judge Him, so you have to shrug.

Thus, we have reached the wall of Beyond Good and Evil were we have killed God and thus all forms of ethics, morals, and godness. Now, we can only look forward to a future of apathy as we slowly wither away into meaningless existence...

Hooray for logic, leading only to morbid depression! :D

TKretts3:
If you're referring to the character in judeo-christian mythology, then by all means he is down right evil. He commits genocide, advocates the killing of innocent people (or for people who did rather minor things), uses biological warfare - The only thing more disturbing than the character is that the writers meant for him to be looked up to as a THE moral figure.

As far as we know there may be very good reasons for all those things to happen. We have no idea. This is a pointless question. We can answer it from our own personal perspective of what "good" is only, and even then that fails to account for out own inherent lack of understanding of God, what he his, what his intentions are, and whatever else may or may not be going on up there that we humans have no clue about.

This is a pointless question. Here's a much more interesting question;

Is pepperoni pizza good?

Shpongled:

TKretts3:
If you're referring to the character in judeo-christian mythology, then by all means he is down right evil. He commits genocide, advocates the killing of innocent people (or for people who did rather minor things), uses biological warfare - The only thing more disturbing than the character is that the writers meant for him to be looked up to as a THE moral figure.

As far as we know there may be very good reasons for all those things to happen. We have no idea. This is a pointless question. We can answer it from our own personal perspective of what "good" is only, and even then that fails to account for out own inherent lack of understanding of God, what he his, what his intentions are, and whatever else may or may not be going on up there that we humans have no clue about.

This is a pointless question. Here's a much more interesting question;

Is pepperoni pizza good?

It doesn't matter what the writers meant for his intentions, of whether or not the character thought he was doing good. There is no good reason for genocide. There is no good reason for advocating for the killing of innocent people (Or people who have only done minor things). There is no good reason for slavery.

Whether or not it was considered good or not back in that time is irrelevant; if it was, they were wrong.

TKretts3:

Shpongled:

TKretts3:
If you're referring to the character in judeo-christian mythology, then by all means he is down right evil. He commits genocide, advocates the killing of innocent people (or for people who did rather minor things), uses biological warfare - The only thing more disturbing than the character is that the writers meant for him to be looked up to as a THE moral figure.

As far as we know there may be very good reasons for all those things to happen. We have no idea. This is a pointless question. We can answer it from our own personal perspective of what "good" is only, and even then that fails to account for out own inherent lack of understanding of God, what he his, what his intentions are, and whatever else may or may not be going on up there that we humans have no clue about.

This is a pointless question. Here's a much more interesting question;

Is pepperoni pizza good?

It doesn't matter what the writers meant for his intentions, of whether or not the character thought he was doing good. There is no good reason for genocide. There is no good reason for advocating for the killing of innocent people (Or people who have only done minor things). There is no good reason for slavery.

Whether or not it was considered good or not back in that time is irrelevant; if it was, they were wrong.

There may be many good reasons for doing all those things completely unbeknownst to us. If we're accepting that there is an omnipotent infinite being out there for the sake of this discussion, it's incredibly arrogant and narcissistic to believe that we, a race that have only existed in our current state for mere millenia, a race that seems to have changed it's mind on every conceivable issue every 30 bloody seconds, could even begin to fathom what "good" actually means in the grand scheme of things. We can't even agree on what "good" is between neighboring countries, let alone what "good" means for the entire universe, physical beings and metaphysical Gods alike.

This is a pointless question.

Realitycrash:

Big_Willie_Styles:
The concept of Theodicy. Took a class on that in college. Intriguing concept, yes.

God gave man free will. By in so doing, He will not intervene unless He sees it necessary to invoke His wrath or His grace.

...So, whenever it suits him?

To the same extent that heads of states go to war "whenever it suits them". Though I'd expect an omnipotent being to have solid justification that man wouldn't.

Shpongled:

TKretts3:

Shpongled:

As far as we know there may be very good reasons for all those things to happen. We have no idea. This is a pointless question. We can answer it from our own personal perspective of what "good" is only, and even then that fails to account for out own inherent lack of understanding of God, what he his, what his intentions are, and whatever else may or may not be going on up there that we humans have no clue about.

This is a pointless question. Here's a much more interesting question;

Is pepperoni pizza good?

It doesn't matter what the writers meant for his intentions, of whether or not the character thought he was doing good. There is no good reason for genocide. There is no good reason for advocating for the killing of innocent people (Or people who have only done minor things). There is no good reason for slavery.

Whether or not it was considered good or not back in that time is irrelevant; if it was, they were wrong.

There may be many good reasons for doing all those things completely unbeknownst to us. If we're accepting that there is an omnipotent infinite being out there for the sake of this discussion, it's incredibly arrogant and narcissistic to believe that we, a race that have only existed in our current state for mere millenia, a race that seems to have changed it's mind on every conceivable issue every 30 bloody seconds, could even begin to fathom what "good" actually means in the grand scheme of things. We can't even agree on what "good" is between neighboring countries, let alone what "good" means for the entire universe, physical beings and metaphysical Gods alike.

This is a pointless question.

Except there is no actual god, he is only a character in a book. He is the fruit of human thought, written by several writers in many stories. All those stories paint only a very disturbing image of the character, and of the authors of the character.

There may be good reasons for it? That's completely irrelevant - the acts themselves are inherently bad. Genocide, the mass extermination of a specific race, ethnicity, culture, religion, or other group of people is inherently bad - no reason could make you good for doing so. Killing innocent people, those who have done nothing worth losing their lives over, is inherently wrong - no reason could make you be good for doing so. Slavery, forcing certain people into labour, very often in abhorred conditions, is inherently wrong - no reason could make you good for doing so.

TKretts3:

Shpongled:

TKretts3:

Except there is no actual god, he is only a character in a book. He is the fruit of human thought, written by several writers in many stories. All those stories paint only a very disturbing image of the character, and of the authors of the character.

Well i guess at this point we have to define what particular notion of God we're talking about. Are we talking about an actual, bona fide omnipotent being? Or are we just talking about a character in a book? Either way, since we can't understand an omnipotent being and the Bible is collection of many books that regularly contradict each other, this question is pointless.

There may be good reasons for it? That's completely irrelevant - the acts themselves are inherently bad. Genocide, the mass extermination of a specific race, ethnicity, culture, religion, or other group of people is inherently bad - no reason could make you good for doing so. Killing innocent people, those who have done nothing worth losing their lives over, is inherently wrong - no reason could make you be good for doing so. Slavery, forcing certain people into labour, very often in abhorred conditions, is inherently wrong - no reason could make you good for doing so.

Whether the ends can justify the means is an incredibly contentious point so your argument that those actions can be inherently, unequivocally bad is already on shaky ground. If you believe that the slightest negative action may be justified for the sake of overwhelming benefit then you have to accept the possibility that all those actions, on an infinite scale, may potentially be justifiable, in an extreme situation. Clearly only an infinite, omnipotent, omniscient being would have the capacity to fully understand such a circumstance, so who are we to pass judgement?

If you want to narrow down the question to a very definite point, like; Is God, as described in this specific verse of this specific scripture, from the perspective of a relatively well-adjusted western citizen living in the modern era, good? Then no, he probably is not good. But if you broaden the question to incorporate the more generalized concepts of God then it just gets out of hand and all logic and reason falls flat. The question "Is God good?", is far too general a question to have any meaningful answer.

Frission:
If there was a god, he would be a god of the machine and praying to him would be like praying to the laws of gravity.

Feck me someone else was/is attracted to the Deus Machina concept? I was super keen on that for a long time as a deist. It seemed pretty obvious to me that since the universe functions in a uniform logical way at all times in all places the only thing i could be certain a creator being was rooted in was a desire to create said laws of logic and uniformity in the interaction between atoms. Thus the machine god. One without personality or ethics entirely, simply a creator of consistent logic. No reason to think it would ever intervene either.

Angelblaze:

Realitycrash:

Big_Willie_Styles:
The concept of Theodicy. Took a class on that in college. Intriguing concept, yes.

God gave man free will. By in so doing, He will not intervene unless He sees it necessary to invoke His wrath or His grace.

...So, whenever it suits him?

Nice job pulling only the things you want outta that one. Very well done.

How exactly am I supposed to take " He will not intervene unless He sees it necessary to invoke His wrath or His grace." in any other fashion? GIVE me another interpretation than 'when it suits him'.

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