US vs the world: US threatens Ecuadorian economy and Russia, whines at China

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Tayh:
I think it could be interesting to see what would happen if the roles were reversed.
What if a country got caught spying on the US?
Instead of Americans being all like, "Oh, everyone does it. Deal with it.", they'd probably be gearing up for an invasion.

Well, back in the 1990s, the Israeli government was caught spying on the US and all we did back then was a great deal of huffing and puffing about how allies don't do that sort of thing (and, really, that was it. No cuts in aid, no threatening the alliance, nada).

davidmc1158:

Tayh:
I think it could be interesting to see what would happen if the roles were reversed.
What if a country got caught spying on the US?
Instead of Americans being all like, "Oh, everyone does it. Deal with it.", they'd probably be gearing up for an invasion.

Well, back in the 1990s, the Israeli government was caught spying on the US and all we did back then was a great deal of huffing and puffing about how allies don't do that sort of thing (and, really, that was it. No cuts in aid, no threatening the alliance, nada).

That's different. That's Israel.

Also it looks like Israel is "in on" PRISM too.

http://au.businessinsider.com/israelis-bugged-the-us-for-the-nsa-2013-6

Korolev:
The fuss they are making about Snowden isn't necessarily about Snowden himself. Rather, it is to scare any other Whistleblowers. If the US just wanted Snowden, they'd stay quiet, let Snowden go to Ecuador.... and then get him. Make no mistake, Ecuador can't protect Snowden for long. They are sincere in their effort to help Snowden, but Ecuador isn't exactly a strong nation with tight security - if Snowden went to Ecuador, the US would assuredly get him sooner or later.

But the US isn't staying quiet - it's making a big fuss and is actually doing things that are counterproductive to getting Snowden. They are doing this to scare other potential whistleblowers - they are saying, indirectly, to anyone else in the NSA, CIA or FBI, that if you talk and leak info, you can expect a WORLD of hurt to come down on you. This huffing and puffing is partially just a show to scare other whistleblowers.

China and Russia are a bit miffed about this, but this won't do any lasting damage. China and the US trade billions upon billions upon billions of dollars with each other - they're not going to stop over Snowden. Russia and the US do co-operate on many things as well - space projects, combating piracy off the coast of Somalia and in regards to Terrorist activity. That's not going to stop over Snowden. Russia is looking to use Snowden for geopolitical advantages and they'll probably trade in Snowden for a "return" - maybe they want the US to stop interfering with Syria, and if the US agrees, Snowden will be in a bag to Washington, Courtesy Aeroflot within a microsecond. Don't pretend the Russians give a damn about Snowden personally - he is nothing to them, except as a bargaining chip.

Yes, I'd say that all these statements are true. And the USA has a lot to hide, the elite are particularly afraid of whistleblowers exposing the US intelligence agencies' interference in the middle east; of the BOGUS "war on terror", on the agenda surrounding the "war on drugs", both of which fuel the military-industrial complex and a destruction of civil rights. And I'm sure that just scratches the surface.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-eu-spy-scandal-challenges-transatlantic-trade-talks/5342078

More bugs have (Unsuprisingly) been found in various embassies around Europe belonging to the U.S.

http://www.zdnet.com/eu-votes-to-support-suspending-u-s-data-sharing-agreements-including-passenger-flight-data-7000017677/

Also that. EU voted successfully to suspend various Data-Sharing agreements should it come to it... Although it looks to be that they 'overall' wont risk the massive funds of the trading agreement on this, rather using it to look over the facts of the treaty and find out where the U.S tried to make it come out in their favor and use the scandal to give some stricter requirements for making it a possibility. Requirements that U.S congress might not want to fulfill (What with the disputed things being health and safety standards and various environmental regulations that in many of their heads cut profits)

There has been talks of these things before, but they never reached much of anything as they were downplayed by the U.K, I guess the justice minister gets the last laugh as her suspicions are proven to be true. . . Then again she doesn't really look to be laughing. So I guess its generally depressing all around.

In other news, this new scandal between EU and the U.S opted other nations to carefully scour their own embassies, and unsuprisingly (Still thought it needed saying) India and China found theirs to be bugged aswell. It doesn't really have the same impact though as those two aren't really considered allies. So they pretty much did as was expected and demanded that the U.S don't put bugs in their embassies.

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2013/07/2013761037537873.html

Equador will grant Snowden asylum if he manages to reach them, they stuggle with the embargo as their currency is the U.S dollar and they rely on imports from the U.S to pretty much have a functioning economy. Also their flowers industry is also a pretty decent chunk of their economy so that sucks too.

Slightly Related News that I DID NOT THINK warranted its own thread

Swedish Forensics report has been fully ranslated into English.

http://assangeinswedenbook.com/2013/07/01/the-lab-results/

Assange is 'not' a rapist. It was confirmed that the condoms sent in by the alleged victims could not have been used for sex. And as such , logically they could not have been used by Assange to have sex with the Victims.

So yea, however many things Assange is. Rapist is not one of them.

(If anyone wishes to make a thread, do so)

Once again my country works harder to solve imaginary problems than actual ones. Sigh. I like living in the US, but it's sometimes like living with your crazy uncle. He's a lot of fun, but frequently embarrassing, and causes lots of problems that you then get held accountable for.

Its only been seven days so I won't count this as a necro.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/16/edward-snowden-seeks-temporary-asylum-russia

Richard Snowden has submitted request for Temporary Asylum request to Russia.

Snowdens given reason for seeking Asylum is to avoid possible death and torture at the hands of the U.S Authorities. As seen with Manning, people like him are thrown to Guantanamo. And according to rumors they don't treat people very nicely there, some say that they don't even give trials, so it would be easy to understand his concern.

Richards response to accusations of intelligence leak to Russian or Chinese was something along the lines of him having had the job of teaching people how not to leak information in area's with high amounts of counter-intelligence. And as such he would know how to avoid them taking data from his laptop, he also stated that he would not leak U.S secrets that would harm Americans even under torture, well. At least he cares about Americans.

Putin commented on the situation when asked what will happend to Snowden. He has in the past said that Russia will not under any circumstance extradite Snowden to the U.S, however he also said 'smiling' according to the Guardian, that it would be for the best if he left the country soon, since. Afterall, he arrived without any invitation.

Putin carefully avoided answering with a yes or no to the question of whether they will accept the request for Asylum, which has already promoted the U.S to accuse Russia of granting Snowden a safe haven for an anti-American propaganda platform. He has however said that he does not want to damage Russia's relations with the U.S for Snowdens sake.

When asked to comment on the situation by some students, he said that Snowden is not in Russia by choice, but that Washington has revoked his passport so the U.S has removed any way of him traveling onward, turning Russia from a Transit into something of a temporary save haven, even without the Asylum.

MammothBlade:
Yes, I'd say that all these statements are true. And the USA has a lot to hide, the elite are particularly afraid of whistleblowers exposing the US intelligence agencies' interference in the middle east; of the BOGUS "war on terror", on the agenda surrounding the "war on drugs", both of which fuel the military-industrial complex and a destruction of civil rights. And I'm sure that just scratches the surface.

What exactly could they be hiding? Given the crimes the American intelligence services have been able to get away with doing fairly openly without any real political backlash it's hard to see what they could be doing that they'd want to keep secret beyond the general secrecy they need to keep for on-going operations.

Axolotl:

MammothBlade:
Yes, I'd say that all these statements are true. And the USA has a lot to hide, the elite are particularly afraid of whistleblowers exposing the US intelligence agencies' interference in the middle east; of the BOGUS "war on terror", on the agenda surrounding the "war on drugs", both of which fuel the military-industrial complex and a destruction of civil rights. And I'm sure that just scratches the surface.

What exactly could they be hiding? Given the crimes the American intelligence services have been able to get away with doing fairly openly without any real political backlash it's hard to see what they could be doing that they'd want to keep secret beyond the general secrecy they need to keep for on-going operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

Project MKUltra is the code name of a U.S. government covert research operation experimenting in the behavioral engineering of humans (mind control) through the CIA's Scientific Intelligence Division. The program began in the early 1950s, was officially sanctioned in 1953, was reduced in scope in 1964, further curtailed in 1967 and officially halted in 1973. The program engaged in many illegal activities; in particular it used unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens as its test subjects, which led to controversy regarding its legitimacy. MKUltra involved the use of many methodologies to manipulate people's mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture.

They are committing illegal and inhumane atrocities, this is just one example that got out a few decades ago, which exposes the sheer amorality of US intelligence agencies and elites. Some things may be open secrets by now, but they want to discredit and keep awareness to a minimum. Never will you hear about such allegations in the mainstream media. It's not always about what you know intuitively, but it's what you can prove with evidence. They want to stop the leaks of decisive evidence of the warped agenda in the war on drugs, on the war on terror. And that's not the end of it, I'm sure there's a lot more illegal shit which makes Snowden's leaks seem like a drop in the water.

The more the public know, the weaker the government's arguments become. Leaks will become a catalyst for the cessation of the war on "terror", on human rights, and on individual freedom.

MammothBlade:

Axolotl:

MammothBlade:
Yes, I'd say that all these statements are true. And the USA has a lot to hide, the elite are particularly afraid of whistleblowers exposing the US intelligence agencies' interference in the middle east; of the BOGUS "war on terror", on the agenda surrounding the "war on drugs", both of which fuel the military-industrial complex and a destruction of civil rights. And I'm sure that just scratches the surface.

What exactly could they be hiding? Given the crimes the American intelligence services have been able to get away with doing fairly openly without any real political backlash it's hard to see what they could be doing that they'd want to keep secret beyond the general secrecy they need to keep for on-going operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

Project MKUltra is the code name of a U.S. government covert research operation experimenting in the behavioral engineering of humans (mind control) through the CIA's Scientific Intelligence Division. The program began in the early 1950s, was officially sanctioned in 1953, was reduced in scope in 1964, further curtailed in 1967 and officially halted in 1973. The program engaged in many illegal activities; in particular it used unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens as its test subjects, which led to controversy regarding its legitimacy. MKUltra involved the use of many methodologies to manipulate people's mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture.

They are committing illegal and inhumane atrocities, this is just one example that got out a few decades ago, which exposes the sheer amorality of US intelligence agencies and elites. Some things may be open secrets by now, but they want to discredit and keep awareness to a minimum. Never will you hear about such things in the mainstream media. It's not always about what you know intuitively, but it's what you can prove with evidence. They want to stop the leaks of decisive evidence of the warped agenda in the war on drugs, on the war on terror. And that's not the end of it, I'm sure there's a lot more illegal shit which makes Snowden's leaks seem like a drop in the water.

But we know about this, we know about dozens of much more recent crimes they've done. The American public has shown itself willing to forgive the CIA of almost any crime, Oliver North betrayed America and committed crimes against humanity and now he has his own news show. We know that the CIA lied about WMDs in Iraq, nobody cares, We know about the torture camps, nobody cares, we know that a lot of the brutal Islamic regimes in the Middle East are being backed by America but once again nobody cares. Hell the NSA is found to be spying on everyone and how do people react? They go off on nonsensical fantasies about how Snowden is somehow an elaborate double agent working for foreign powers.

Even your claim that this stuff doesn't get talked about is untrue I mean Oliver Stone's a fairly well known filmmaker and he just did a documentary on TV about all these sort of thing and you know what? Nobody cared.

Axolotl:

MammothBlade:

Axolotl:
What exactly could they be hiding? Given the crimes the American intelligence services have been able to get away with doing fairly openly without any real political backlash it's hard to see what they could be doing that they'd want to keep secret beyond the general secrecy they need to keep for on-going operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

Project MKUltra is the code name of a U.S. government covert research operation experimenting in the behavioral engineering of humans (mind control) through the CIA's Scientific Intelligence Division. The program began in the early 1950s, was officially sanctioned in 1953, was reduced in scope in 1964, further curtailed in 1967 and officially halted in 1973. The program engaged in many illegal activities; in particular it used unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens as its test subjects, which led to controversy regarding its legitimacy. MKUltra involved the use of many methodologies to manipulate people's mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture.

They are committing illegal and inhumane atrocities, this is just one example that got out a few decades ago, which exposes the sheer amorality of US intelligence agencies and elites. Some things may be open secrets by now, but they want to discredit and keep awareness to a minimum. Never will you hear about such things in the mainstream media. It's not always about what you know intuitively, but it's what you can prove with evidence. They want to stop the leaks of decisive evidence of the warped agenda in the war on drugs, on the war on terror. And that's not the end of it, I'm sure there's a lot more illegal shit which makes Snowden's leaks seem like a drop in the water.

But we know about this, we know about dozens of much more recent crimes they've done. The American public has shown itself willing to forgive the CIA of almost any crime, Oliver North betrayed America and committed crimes against humanity and now he has his own news show. We know that the CIA lied about WMDs in Iraq, nobody cares, We know about the torture camps, nobody cares, we know that a lot of the brutal Islamic regimes in the Middle East are being backed by America but once again nobody cares. Hell the NSA is found to be spying on everyone and how do people react? They go off on nonsensical fantasies about how Snowden is somehow an elaborate double agent working for foreign powers.

Even your claim that this stuff doesn't get talked about is untrue I mean Oliver Stone's a fairly well known filmmaker and he just did a documentary on TV about all these sort of thing and you know what? Nobody cared.

You could say that the apathy is a part of what's wrong, people just don't care. That's possibly a problem with consumer capitalism in general, not so much a conspiracy, but still, the elites do fear that something big will get out, something that will really wake people up, and it will overwhelm the media's ability to moderate and frame the debate. A lot of the public are angry, but many still accept that it's necessary as part of the "war on terror" which by all rights is a bogus war in the first place. The next step is to prove that bombing distant countries actually makes the problem worse. That terrorism has INCREASED because of the war on terror.

http://www.newser.com/story/158712/terrorist-attacks-have-quadrupled-since-911.html.

What will it take to make this information common knowledge?

Tayh:
I think it could be interesting to see what would happen if the roles were reversed.
What if a country got caught spying on the US?
Instead of Americans being all like, "Oh, everyone does it. Deal with it.", they'd probably be gearing up for an invasion.

.... Is that a Joke or do you really pay that little attention to world?
the Chinese Cyber attacks, described by the SMH as a 'continuous wave',
or the Russian Spy ring that included Anna Chapman in 2012, with its like seeming to pop up in the news every year or so.

Hell, people around here are painting the EU as some innocent victim, forgetting shit like Op Satanic and Op Barracuda.

Nikolaz72:
Its only been seven days so I won't count this as a necro.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/16/edward-snowden-seeks-temporary-asylum-russia

Richard Snowden has submitted request for Temporary Asylum request to Russia.

Snowdens given reason for seeking Asylum is to avoid possible death and torture at the hands of the U.S Authorities. As seen with Manning, people like him are thrown to Guantanamo. And according to rumors they don't treat people very nicely there, some say that they don't even give trials, so it would be easy to understand his concern.

Do you feel comfortable just lying? Manning never set foot in Guantanamo, nor was he tortured, nor has he been killed. So how the fuck is it easy to understand his concern? Concern that he might go on trial maybe.

And I think now would be a great time to laugh at everyone who thinks that Ecuador, China, Russia and any of the other countries offering aid to Snowden and Assange are supporting human rights. Are there other countries named Ecuador, the PRC and Russia that I am unaware of, or are people just content to say what 'feels right' as opposed to the truth?!

Tayh:
I think it could be interesting to see what would happen if the roles were reversed.
What if a country got caught spying on the US?
Instead of Americans being all like, "Oh, everyone does it. Deal with it.", they'd probably be gearing up for an invasion.

considering 3 years ago we caught a massive Russian spy ring (I think like 10+ spies), and we are not gearing up for war.

But you are right, Americans were pissed....that we sent the hot Russian spy BACK to Russia and didn't let her stay.

the clockmaker:
And I think now would be a great time to laugh at everyone who thinks that Ecuador, China, Russia and any of the other countries offering aid to Snowden and Assange are supporting human rights. Are there other countries named Ecuador, the PRC and Russia that I am unaware of, or are people just content to say what 'feels right' as opposed to the truth?!

Well, they are supporting a human's rights. Baby steps and all...

thaluikhain:

the clockmaker:
And I think now would be a great time to laugh at everyone who thinks that Ecuador, China, Russia and any of the other countries offering aid to Snowden and Assange are supporting human rights. Are there other countries named Ecuador, the PRC and Russia that I am unaware of, or are people just content to say what 'feels right' as opposed to the truth?!

Well, they are supporting a human's rights. Baby steps and all...

I'm sure that is a great comfort to the collective hundreds of millions of people suffering under those governments.
Wow, our ethnic group has been marginalised and beaten down for decades, but some smug yank is being protected so its all cool.
Wow, our very concept of democracy has been spit roasted by Putin and Medvedev for more than a decade, but Snowden gets to say whatever he wants so I'm fine.
Wow, if we speak about the corruption in the government we will be arrested, but our government wants to have a pissing contest with the US so let freedom ring motherfuckers!

Seriously, these fonts of corruption and abuse offering Snowden asylum (tool that he is) is a step forward in the same way that stomping on someones face is a step forward. There is a foot and it is moving in a forward direction, but that's no comfort to the poor fucker under the boot and there is sure as shit no progress being made.

And what rights of Snowden's are under threat? The right to breach contract by handing national security secrets to foreign nations? The right to avoid being tried under a law that only applies to him because he specifically agreed to it?

If you were being sarcastic, and I hope to Christ that you are because I thought better of you than this, I appologise, but the blind hero worship of a cowardly tosspot in this thread and other places makes it hard to tell.

the clockmaker:
And I think now would be a great time to laugh at everyone who thinks that Ecuador, China, Russia and any of the other countries offering aid to Snowden and Assange are supporting human rights. Are there other countries named Ecuador, the PRC and Russia that I am unaware of, or are people just content to say what 'feels right' as opposed to the truth?!

So yeah, only saints get to point out fingers nowadays? Then why do i constantly hear about USA bitching about russia and china, just like you are doing now?
They are merely doing the same thing USA been doing for the past 50 years.

They are supporting human rights. Mostly in other countries, but they are.

And as far as "the truth" goes, USA seems to be terribly against speaking of it in the open, so watch your back.

Of course its just to divert attention from their own problems, you think people are that stupid? THEY KNOW THERE IS BAD SHIT IN OTHER COUNTRIES AS WELL. I realize it, a lot of people do as well. Thing is, i realize it as well when USA does it.

Stop acting like a fucking saint and a bastion of freedom, shouting about human rights as long as its in other countries, or at least stop being a little whiny bitch and complain when its the other players turn.

neonit:

the clockmaker:
And I think now would be a great time to laugh at everyone who thinks that Ecuador, China, Russia and any of the other countries offering aid to Snowden and Assange are supporting human rights. Are there other countries named Ecuador, the PRC and Russia that I am unaware of, or are people just content to say what 'feels right' as opposed to the truth?!

So yeah, only saints get to point out fingers nowadays? Then why do i constantly hear about USA bitching about russia and china, just like you are doing now?
They are merely doing the same thing USA been doing for the past 50 years.

They are supporting human rights. Mostly in other countries, but they are.

And as far as "the truth" goes, USA seems to be terribly against speaking of it in the open, so watch your back.

Of course its just to divert attention from their own problems, you think people are that stupid? THEY KNOW THERE IS BAD SHIT IN OTHER COUNTRIES AS WELL. I realize it, a lot of people do as well. Thing is, i realize it as well when USA does it.

Stop acting like a fucking saint and a bastion of freedom, shouting about human rights as long as its in other countries, or at least stop being a little whiny bitch and complain when its the other players turn.

1-I am Australian
2-There is a difference between being a dick (as the US sometimes does) and being almost cartoonishly evil (as the three countries in question are. The US has problems (though I would argue that the current issue is not one of them and has been madly misinterpreted) but to simply go 'well they do the same shit russia does' is roughly the same as looking at a dude littering and focusing on that while someone else beats a dude to death a few meters to the right. Seriously, people who say 'I'm not stupid' and then say things that are kinda intelligence impaired get on my nerves.
3-The question at hand, the one that brought me into this thread was some berk saying (gisted) 'The US is trying to play this as everybody does it and would be pissed if anybody else did it' which flies in the face of you claiming that people aren't thinking along those lines.
4-Ecuador in particular has been recieving almost nothing but praise in regards to this issue, with many people saying (gisted) 'at least some countries are still standing up for human rights'
5-They are in no way defending human rights. AT FUCKING ALL. They are doing political dick measuring while oppressing their own people. Not abstract 'I feel violated because things that I don't understand are in contravention of other things I don't understand' but 'Oh shit where did the blood in my neck go?!' or 'Oh shit, why am I locked away in a dank cell for questioning the government?!' the comparison between the US and these countries is very much again a 'feels right' as opposed to a 'truth' thing.

the clockmaker:

thaluikhain:

the clockmaker:
And I think now would be a great time to laugh at everyone who thinks that Ecuador, China, Russia and any of the other countries offering aid to Snowden and Assange are supporting human rights. Are there other countries named Ecuador, the PRC and Russia that I am unaware of, or are people just content to say what 'feels right' as opposed to the truth?!

Well, they are supporting a human's rights. Baby steps and all...

I'm sure that is a great comfort to the collective hundreds of millions of people suffering under those governments.
Wow, our ethnic group has been marginalised and beaten down for decades, but some smug yank is being protected so its all cool.
Wow, our very concept of democracy has been spit roasted by Putin and Medvedev for more than a decade, but Snowden gets to say whatever he wants so I'm fine.
Wow, if we speak about the corruption in the government we will be arrested, but our government wants to have a pissing contest with the US so let freedom ring motherfuckers!

Seriously, these fonts of corruption and abuse offering Snowden asylum (tool that he is) is a step forward in the same way that stomping on someones face is a step forward. There is a foot and it is moving in a forward direction, but that's no comfort to the poor fucker under the boot and there is sure as shit no progress being made.

And what rights of Snowden's are under threat? The right to breach contract by handing national security secrets to foreign nations? The right to avoid being tried under a law that only applies to him because he specifically agreed to it?

If you were being sarcastic, and I hope to Christ that you are because I thought better of you than this, I appologise, but the blind hero worship of a cowardly tosspot in this thread and other places makes it hard to tell.

Oh, I tend to agree with you (excepting perhaps the implication that Russia has ever really known freedom or democracy). I don't particularly disagree with what he did, but the nations wanting to protect him are sticking it to the US for fairly obvious reasons.

the clockmaker:

neonit:
snip

1-I am Australian
2-There is a difference between being a dick (as the US sometimes does) and being almost cartoonishly evil (as the three countries in question are. The US has problems (though I would argue that the current issue is not one of them and has been madly misinterpreted) but to simply go 'well they do the same shit russia does' is roughly the same as looking at a dude littering and focusing on that while someone else beats a dude to death a few meters to the right. Seriously, people who say 'I'm not stupid' and then say things that are kinda intelligence impaired get on my nerves.
3-The question at hand, the one that brought me into this thread was some berk saying (gisted) 'The US is trying to play this as everybody does it and would be pissed if anybody else did it' which flies in the face of you claiming that people aren't thinking along those lines.
4-Ecuador in particular has been recieving almost nothing but praise in regards to this issue, with many people saying (gisted) 'at least some countries are still standing up for human rights'
5-They are in no way defending human rights. AT FUCKING ALL. They are doing political dick measuring while oppressing their own people. Not abstract 'I feel violated because things that I don't understand are in contravention of other things I don't understand' but 'Oh shit where did the blood in my neck go?!' or 'Oh shit, why am I locked away in a dank cell for questioning the government?!' the comparison between the US and these countries is very much again a 'feels right' as opposed to a 'truth' thing.

1. irrelevant. You complain about human rights in other countries as means to validate human rights breaches in other countries.
2. Of course, other countries will always be more "evil" as long as you dismiss the evil deeds of the country in question. Spying on entire earth and disregarding privacy? Human rights breaches on the level of putting men into isolation cell for YEARS without due process? Not important, because i said so.
3. i am not responsible for each and every person on earth. a lot of people are speaking out of emotion. true that. fact is, most people realize at age of about 16 (some sooner some later) that the entire domestic politics IS diverting attention.
4. and rightfully so, because other countries are too afraid to speak up. yes, they have problems of their own, but at least they have the balls to point out when others do as well. what do you propose? that we say nothing, because we are not saints?
5. they are standing up for a man, that very well might be in danger due to human rights breaches in USA. THAT is standing up for human rights. that they have other "extra" motives - of course they do. you see, once i turned out 12 i realized that most people wont do shit unless it fits their goals. in this case, defending human rights fits their goals.
the rest of this point i do not get, it seems too random to me.

Thing is, politics is a bunch of shit. Now that we have established this point - sometimes human rights align with the goals of the politicians. Its a shame that a good point is to be ignored, because the guy making it is an asshole. What? You think im a fan of internal politics in russia? Its a shithole! But they are making a valid point. You think i believe Ecaudor to be some kind of paradise? No, i think they are trying to divert attention from their own problems, by pointing out OTHER problems. But thats what they are - PROBLEMS.

thaluikhain:

the clockmaker:

thaluikhain:

Well, they are supporting a human's rights. Baby steps and all...

I'm sure that is a great comfort to the collective hundreds of millions of people suffering under those governments.
Wow, our ethnic group has been marginalised and beaten down for decades, but some smug yank is being protected so its all cool.
Wow, our very concept of democracy has been spit roasted by Putin and Medvedev for more than a decade, but Snowden gets to say whatever he wants so I'm fine.
Wow, if we speak about the corruption in the government we will be arrested, but our government wants to have a pissing contest with the US so let freedom ring motherfuckers!

Seriously, these fonts of corruption and abuse offering Snowden asylum (tool that he is) is a step forward in the same way that stomping on someones face is a step forward. There is a foot and it is moving in a forward direction, but that's no comfort to the poor fucker under the boot and there is sure as shit no progress being made.

And what rights of Snowden's are under threat? The right to breach contract by handing national security secrets to foreign nations? The right to avoid being tried under a law that only applies to him because he specifically agreed to it?

If you were being sarcastic, and I hope to Christ that you are because I thought better of you than this, I appologise, but the blind hero worship of a cowardly tosspot in this thread and other places makes it hard to tell.

Oh, I tend to agree with you (excepting perhaps the implication that Russia has ever really known freedom or democracy). I don't particularly disagree with what he did, but the nations wanting to protect him are sticking it to the US for fairly obvious reasons.

I dunno, Putin seems genuinely pissed about the whole situation. What with it happening only a month or so before his meeting with Obama, and him most likely having wanted to discuss something else with the U.S president before this inevitable topic-changer swooped down on his front yard.

Because the topic of Snowden is something that Obama 'might' bring up at the meeting in Russia.

the clockmaker:
2-There is a difference between being a dick (as the US sometimes does) and being almost cartoonishly evil (as the three countries in question are. The US has problems (though I would argue that the current issue is not one of them and has been madly misinterpreted) but to simply go 'well they do the same shit russia does' is roughly the same as looking at a dude littering and focusing on that while someone else beats a dude to death a few meters to the right. Seriously, people who say 'I'm not stupid' and then say things that are kinda intelligence impaired get on my nerves.

America isn't "sometimes" a dick. While it's treatment of its own citizens is generally better than Russia's treatment of its citizens (with some notable exceptions) its treatment of foreign states is just as bad and far more widespread. There is a long history of America destroying democracies, supporting fascist and totalitarian reigmes and violating human rights to futher it's interests and to support this its happily used terrorism, assassination, torture, supporting genocide and mass bombing of civilians. Now Russia and China are totalitarian states who brutally supress millions of people but to compare Anerica's actions to littering? That's just either sick or stupid.

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