Transgender and You: A guide to interacting the the trans public

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Transgender, what does it mean? Who does it apply to? What do I do if I see one in the wild? Many of these I'm sure have crossed your mind at some point and understandably so. Transgender and indeed transsexual individuals are not a commonly discussed topic and those of us who occupy that title generally do it awkwardly due to the societal shame that still generally surrounds it.

So today I'm going to lay out a few basic guidelines for respectfully interacting with people who happen to belong under the 'trans umbrella'. These guidelines are neither deep, nor are they set in stone. At any time you can choose not to follow these guidelines but let it be known that your interactions with trans individuals will likely become less than optimal if you do.

Guideline 1) There's two basic types of trans individuals; the performer and the gender dysphoric.

a) Most people have the greatest familiarity with the trans performers. These are your basic drag queens/kings. Often times trans performers have no greater motivation for transgressing the gender boundary than their enjoyment of doing so. In many cases trans performers are not gender dysphoric and in fact feel quite comfortable with their bodies.

2) Less well known are the gender dysphoric individuals, also commonly referred to as 'transsexuals'. These people genuinely need to shift their gender disposition. The precise cause of gender dysphoria has not yet been determined but that does not make it any less real for the people experiencing it. Gender dysphoria causes very real difficulty in cognitive functioning and very real physical pain for those who experience it. The only available treatment for gender dysphoria currently is hormone replacement therapy (HRT). Whether or not they 'complete transition' most trans individuals feel significantly better after starting HRT.

These two groups are neither inclusive, nor exclusive. It is entirely possible that someone can belong to one or both. Ultimately it depends on the individual you're talking to.

Guideline 2) Trans individuals know you might get their pronouns mixed up, and they're willing to roll with it. If you get a trans individual's pronouns flipped don't get embarrassed, just flip the pronouns back and get on with it. The majority of trans people don't want to make a scene over pronouns, they just want to get on with things and enjoy their life same as you.

Guideline 3) Trans people are not out to get into anyone's pants. Trans people are not trying to 'flip' anyone's sexual orientation, nor are they deceiving anyone or making any attempt to do so. If you're at a bar or club and you find out the person you've been eyeing is trans just keep cool and be honest. If you're cool with it, great, if you're not cool with it, fine, just don't assume the trans person in question is out to nefariously undermine your sense of security or orientation.

Guideline 4) The status of whatever happens to reside between a trans person's legs is strictly on a need to know basis. If you're not planning on getting intimate with that trans individual you do not need to know. Simply letting this go will solve more gender tension than you may first realize.

Guideline 5) Gender and sexual orientation are not the same thing. If a trans person is Female to Male and they like guys, they're gay. Similarly if a trans person is Male to Female and they like guys, they're straight. HRT and transition are not solutions for 'undesirable' sexual orientation, nor are they an indicator of sexual leanings.

Guideline 6) If someone denies they're trans, regardless of how strong your suspicions may be, just let it go. Being trans is dangerous; your odds of being murdered go up to 1 in 12 if you're trans and the majority of trans murderers get off scot free. If someone doesn't want to tell you they're trans, that's their business and they're most likely scared of how you will react. If you're dating them and this happens then simply take the guidelines here into consideration and handle the situation as kindly and tactfully as you can. Otherwise, just let it go.

Guideline 7) Never, and I mean but never, use words such as tranny, he-she, or shemale to describe a trans individual. These titles are strongly tied to the porn industry and their exploitation of trans individuals. Treat these words the same as you would any other racial slur or epithet. If a trans individual uses one of those words to describe themselves, that's their business. It does not make it okay for you to use those words as well.

Guideline 8) Trans individuals are not 'fake' men/women. They are very real, they are just as invested in their gender as you are in yours and they are doing their best to measure up to society's expectations of them even if they can't quite reach the cisgender benchmark. A transwoman is not 'really a man' and a transman is not 'really a woman'.

Guideline 9) Trans monikers go from left to right. If someone is transitioning Male to Female (MtF) that means they are transitioning from male body chemistry to female body chemistry. Similarly if someone is transitioning Female to Male (FtM) that means they are transitioning from female body chemistry to male body chemistry.

Guideline 10) When in doubt: ask (but keep it tactful). Seriously, just bee chill and ask. If you just met someone and you're not sure which pronouns to use, ask. If you're not sure what kind of birthday card to get them, ask. If you can't tell which direction they're transitioning and don't want to be disrespectful, ask. Just be sure to take into consideration their feelings and avoid being too abrasive as many trans individuals are quite defensive. This guideline is especially useful for genderqueer individuals as they generally lack a hard and fast gender.

Alright, well hopefully that will help at least some peeps here at the Escapist better interact with their trans neighbors. Again the guidelines I listed are just that, guidelines, so while they're generally a good idea they're not law. Additionally, if a trans person is being an in-your-face jerk about their gender and just generally making you feel bad? That's because they're a jerk, not because they're trans, please don't lump all trans people in with them.

I knew a trans-boy who looked really androgynous, couldn't tell what he was at first. Didn't help that he had a gender neutral name from the get-go.

Fortunately, being casual and inoffensive is the general, all-purpose way to not say the wrong thing. Just asked which way he transitioned after he brought it up one time. I guess it was lucky that I did assume the gender to be male at first, even before I knew he was trans.

TBH i think this thread is a waste of your time, no offense. But anyone who needs a guide on how to treat people nicely really wouldn't gather anything from it anyways. And the ones that are so "opinionated" on the notion that trans-people cant be seen as the gender they aim to be wont be swayed either, for examples, see the other on going transgender thread.

And as for discussion value, im not sure what can be gained from this topic besides dissenting opinions and "MTF transwomen are still men" comments.

Rosiv:
TBH i think this thread is a waste of your time, no offense. But anyone who needs a guide on how to treat people nicely really wouldn't gather anything from it anyways. And the ones that are so "opinionated" on the notion that trans-people cant be seen as the gender they aim to be wont be swayed either, for examples, see the other on going transgender thread.

And as for discussion value, im not sure what can be gained from this topic besides dissenting opinions and "MTF transwomen are still men" comments.

a bit of education doesnt hurt and this community can frankly be pretty vicious and could do with some tolerance. funny if you are gay here or support gay rights no one bats an eye lid but this topic freaks people out like gay rights did 40 years ago

This is really helpful to those who feel uncomfortable towards trans people due to never meeting one in real life. I, myself, have never had a face-to-face talk with a trans person, but I have bumped into a few out on the streets and I think this guide will help me if I ever do get into a conversation. Admittedly, however, I already planned on doing the things listed in this guide, so it's nice to know the approach I was going to take was the right one. But I have one question, I left it in the ongoing thread on whether or not I'd date a trans person, and the reply I received was basically "The terms differ from region to region" which is helpful, but it seems people are using one more than the other. So I'll copy/paste my question here.

From what I know, a transgender person is a man either dressing or referring to themselves as a woman and vise-versa. Whereas a transsexual actually goes through the steps to completely change their sex from male to female and vise-versa. Do I have the wrong definitions for these terms?

Wraith:
This is really helpful to those who feel uncomfortable towards trans people due to never meeting one in real life. I, myself, have never had a face-to-face talk with a trans person, but I have bumped into a few out on the streets and I think this guide will help me if I ever do get into a conversation. Admittedly, however, I already planned on doing the things listed in this guide, so it's nice to know the approach I was going to take was the right one. But I have one question, I left it in the ongoing thread on whether or not I'd date a trans person, and the reply I received was basically "The terms differ from region to region" which is helpful, but it seems people are using one more than the other. So I'll copy/paste my question here.

From what I know, a transgender person is a man either dressing or referring to themselves as a woman and vise-versa. Whereas a transsexual actually goes through the steps to completely change their sex from male to female and vise-versa. Do I have the wrong definitions for these terms?

transexual tends to be an older term and is more likely to be used by the medical community. transgender tends to be the new PC term used. that said it also depends on the individual

Not gonna lie, I have problems with #8.

I generally keep it to myself though because, y'know, manners and stuff.

Proto Taco:
Trans individuals are not 'fake' men/women. They are very real, they are just as invested in their gender as you are in yours and they are doing their best to measure up to society's expectations of them even if they can't quite reach the cisgender benchmark. A transwoman is not 'really a man' and a transman is not 'really a woman'.

So is there such a thing as a trans-trans? I notice you have completely omitted this. Perhaps you have your own biases, and should recognize those before presuming biases in others.

Zhukov:
Not gonna lie, I have problems with #8.

I generally keep it to myself though because, y'know, manners and stuff.

Maybe it's the part where they apparently have to act according to society's expectations of their chosen gender in order to justify it. That sounds like performing a role to me, and that screams of falsehood.

Rosiv:
TBH i think this thread is a waste of your time, no offense. But anyone who needs a guide on how to treat people nicely really wouldn't gather anything from it anyways. And the ones that are so "opinionated" on the notion that trans-people cant be seen as the gender they aim to be wont be swayed either, for examples, see the other on going transgender thread.

And as for discussion value, im not sure what can be gained from this topic besides dissenting opinions and "MTF transwomen are still men" comments.

This.

Just don't be a dick.

And theres going to be guys coming in here being all "Queerin Don't Make The World Work" and be all "I refuse to call them by their preferred pronoun" and it's like, hey man. You don't have to believe in anything, but intentionally not refering to them by the preferred pronoun is just being a dick.

CrossLOPER:

Proto Taco:
Trans individuals are not 'fake' men/women. They are very real, they are just as invested in their gender as you are in yours and they are doing their best to measure up to society's expectations of them even if they can't quite reach the cisgender benchmark. A transwoman is not 'really a man' and a transman is not 'really a woman'.

So is there such a thing as a trans-trans? I notice you have completely omitted this. Perhaps you have your own biases, and should recognize those before presuming biases in others.

Yes, it's quite possible for someone to make a mistake in transitioning. Usually what happens is someone with an abundance of resources turns to transition as a way to deal with something else in their life and they complete transition too quickly to give it adequate consideration. Given the lack of research or understanding of gender dysphoria it's actually very easy for this to happen if the trans individual in question is reckless with their healthcare.

Now if you're referring to the lack of mention of genderqueer individuals I did that to avoid confusion. This is a very new topic for most people and any of the above would apply equally as well to genderqueer individuals. I did however try to keep my verbiage as androgynous as possible for this very reason.

Finally, if you're asking whether a transwoman can be a dyke or a transman can be femme, totally. However again, that would add unnecessary confusion to an already difficult topic for most people. The ground rules I laid above still apply, however, when dealing with such an individual.

If you feel I've left something important out that specifically pertains to the more androgynous members of the 'trans umbrella' then I welcome you to post it and I will get it added to the list presently.

Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

Proto Taco:
Guideline 8) Trans individuals are not 'fake' men/women.

They definitely are. Me dressing up as and acting like a giraffe doesn't make me a real giraffe, does it? Same logic applies here.

I think I'll just stick with being vague and indirect with everything I say to anybody, working fine so far.

Besides, if anyone wants to get offended by something I say that wasn't said for that purpose, fuck them anyways.

Jadak:
I think I'll just stick with being vague and indirect with everything I say to anybody, working fine so far.

Beside, if anyone wants to get offended by something I say that wasn't said for that purpose, fuck them anyways.

I love you.

Marry me.

Don't get me wrong. It's just that being honest, concise and as real as it gets seems to have become quite a daunting task these days; I don't like it. Let's make babies.

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

Some boys/men simply identify as a female when asked and given the opportunity to explain themselves. Some of them have been raped. Some of them have not. Some just plain abhor the idea of carrying around the wiener and balls combo. Some are willing to cut them off themselves, which is generally a bad idea. Some are pressured into wanting things by society, politics or their own silly ideas.

It's complicated.

Headdrivehardscrew:

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

Some boys/men simply identify as a female when asked and given the opportunity to explain themselves. Some of them have been raped. Some of them have not. Some just plain abhor the idea of carrying around the wiener and balls combo. Some are willing to cut them off themselves, which is generally a bad idea. Some are pressured into wanting things by society, politics or their own silly ideas.

It's complicated.

As much as I respect people's rights to have their own belief's and opinions, I don't know if I can agree until I actually understand it somewhat. I'm not going to outright campaign against them, or even tell them up front, but if someone asks I'll still say I don't agree with it. It sounds too much like complex and unnecessary plastic surgery, and that destroys your body. (of course I'm not against it in mutilated people, though, like those with severe burn scars)

Headdrivehardscrew:

Jadak:
I think I'll just stick with being vague and indirect with everything I say to anybody, working fine so far.

Beside, if anyone wants to get offended by something I say that wasn't said for that purpose, fuck them anyways.

I love you.

Marry me.

Don't get me wrong. It's just that being honest, concise and as real as it gets seems to have become quite a daunting task these days; I don't like it. Let's make babies.

Sorry, not a single boy these days ;)

As a side note, anonymous marriage proposals should at the least be accompanied by age/gender details, particularly if baby making is to be considered (notably more so in a transgender thread).

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

I dont think science has an answer to why yet. Some people belive gender is a social construct, and that transgender people are just a product of their enviroment in that sense. Others belive there is a biological factor in play , since there have been studies that show that transgender women have "similar brains" to that of regualar women. Although this data isnt absolute, since it doesnt rule out enviromental factors.

To get to my point, more research needs to be done to figure out the "why", but with the world so vitriolically against them i doubt it will be done soon.

But to answer your question, Ive heard anecdotally from trans people that they didnt feel comfortable with their body, and if anyone doesn't feel comfertable with their body i guess they would go through steps to change right? I mean, the alternative would be to change how they think, but that also hasnt been shown to work very well. I mean, if you didnt like having hair, wouldnt you shave it? I guess its like that, only thing people kill themselves over it and get killed over it ,so maybe a bit more serious.

Headdrivehardscrew:

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

Some boys/men simply identify as a female when asked and given the opportunity to explain themselves. Some of them have been raped. Some of them have not. Some just plain abhor the idea of carrying around the wiener and balls combo. Some are willing to cut them off themselves, which is generally a bad idea. Some are pressured into wanting things by society, politics or their own silly ideas.

It's complicated.

Everyone' got their problems, mutilating yourself and not really looking like either gender doesn't really seem like a resolution. Men who want to feel like they're women still often look like men. Same goes for women going the other way. You'll still not be the opposite gender, you'll appear to be the opposite gender to the visually impaired or from a distance. We have a national celebrity who is transgender, and while I have to admit it's done very well (I'll assume it's the best money can buy), there are still features and voice traits that are a dead giveaway.

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

That's a common mistake many people make right there. The vast majority of trans individuals will in fact never get 'the surgery'. Reassignment surgery is incredibly expensive regardless of which way you're going and it all comes out of pocket since insurance still classifies it as 'elective'. For transitioning trans individuals the most important part of transition is the hormone replacement therapy (HRT). HRT brings the trans individual's brain and body chemistry back into balance and allows them to actually think. Gender dysphoria kinda like the distant, detached and just generally wonky feeling your head gets with a really bad sinus infection, except about double it. Once HRT starts that cognitive impairment either vanishes or greatly diminishes and allows the trans individual to function like a normal human being.

In terms of physical transition, that varies from person to person. Some trans people will go the whole hog while others hold back and retain pieces of their in-congruent gender. The reasons for this are as varried as the people who have them, but a common reason cited by those who go all in is that there is a profound sense of personal violation that results from seeing the wrong gender in the mirror day after day. It's really a difficult feeling to describe if you've never had it, total disenfranchisement is the best I could come up with.

I typically go with the clothes.

If they are wearing girls clothes I will typically treat and respond to said person as though they are female. Unless corrected of course, which is not a problem. Because I find most "performers" don't mind you responding to them as females (even if they are obvious straight males), as it just makes their performance more fun for them.

If they are wearing male clothes I will do the opposite. Unless corrected.

Anything else is pointless unless you want to get in their pants.

Proto Taco:

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

That's a common mistake many people make right there. The vast majority of trans individuals will in fact never get 'the surgery'. Reassignment surgery is incredibly expensive regardless of which way you're going and it all comes out of pocket since insurance still classifies it as 'elective'. For transitioning trans individuals the most important part of transition is the hormone replacement therapy (HRT). HRT brings the trans individual's brain and body chemistry back into balance and allows them to actually think. Gender dysphoria kinda like the distant, detached and just generally wonky feeling your head gets with a really bad sinus infection, except about double it. Once HRT starts that cognitive impairment either vanishes or greatly diminishes and allows the trans individual to function like a normal human being.

In terms of physical transition, that varies from person to person. Some trans people will go the whole hog while others hold back and retain pieces of their in-congruent gender. The reasons for this are as varried as the people who have them, but a common reason cited by those who go all in is that there is a profound sense of personal violation that results from seeing the wrong gender in the mirror day after day. It's really a difficult feeling to describe if you've never had it, total disenfranchisement is the best I could come up with.

That makes a lot more sense, but that's only a good case for HRT. I still hold my reservations for any types of plastic surgery unless, again, it's because your body is already horribly mutilated by something like a fire that you'd want that just to not get looks when in public.

So it's a guide on...how to be courteous to others.
Most people already know how to do that, is all.

wombat_of_war:

funny if you are gay here or support gay rights no one bats an eye lid but this topic freaks people out like gay rights did 40 years ago

There is always some issue brought on by differences among the human populace.

Sometimes I think the earth should be under attack from giant alien spiders or something.
We wouldn't judge each other under the fear of giant spiders, except maybe for our ability to fight said giant spiders.
Then maybe. Maybe we can all get along.
Except for those eaten by the spiders.

Seriously though. Unless someone is just being an absolute jerk, I don't think there is any reason to dislike them. And even then it'd be just them not any type of culture/gender/race/sandwich shop/bookclub they belong to.Except the Dutch.

ItsNotRudy:

Headdrivehardscrew:

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

Some boys/men simply identify as a female when asked and given the opportunity to explain themselves. Some of them have been raped. Some of them have not. Some just plain abhor the idea of carrying around the wiener and balls combo. Some are willing to cut them off themselves, which is generally a bad idea. Some are pressured into wanting things by society, politics or their own silly ideas.

It's complicated.

Everyone' got their problems, mutilating yourself and not really looking like either gender doesn't really seem like a resolution. Men who want to feel like they're women still often look like men. Same goes for women going the other way. You'll still not be the opposite gender, you'll appear to be the opposite gender to the visually impaired or from a distance. We have a national celebrity who is transgender, and while I have to admit it's done very well (I'll assume it's the best money can buy), there are still features and voice traits that are a dead giveaway.

The passablity of a transgender women depends on when they transition ultimately. And with the social climate being so harsh towards alot of them, that leads to them sheltering their feelings until there are at a age where HRT might not have that great of an affect. I guess the big killer for transitioning might be voice, since body shape is more varaible between men and female. Taking HRT for a transgender women wont change their voice like it will a transgender man, so the only options they have are a speical tracheal surgery, or voice training. I mean, some transgender people pass and some dont, i dont think there is a majority case of either to be honest.

ItsNotRudy:

Headdrivehardscrew:

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

Some boys/men simply identify as a female when asked and given the opportunity to explain themselves. Some of them have been raped. Some of them have not. Some just plain abhor the idea of carrying around the wiener and balls combo. Some are willing to cut them off themselves, which is generally a bad idea. Some are pressured into wanting things by society, politics or their own silly ideas.

It's complicated.

Everyone' got their problems, mutilating yourself and not really looking like either gender doesn't really seem like a resolution. Men who want to feel like they're women still often look like men. Same goes for women going the other way. You'll still not be the opposite gender, you'll appear to be the opposite gender to the visually impaired or from a distance. We have a national celebrity who is transgender, and while I have to admit it's done very well (I'll assume it's the best money can buy), there are still features and voice traits that are a dead giveaway.

Aye, I understand.

See, my personal stance is this: Have a national health insurance system that allows for any single member of society to remain functional and happy for as long as possible, and get things fixed as soon as possible. If we're talking transsexuals proper, genitals are as life threatening as is, say, cancer.

Coming in from that angle, I cannot possible oppose the notion of people getting FTM or MTF treatment. Whatever floats their boat. My very own personal issues start when the insidious freak pseudo-feminist posse takes over, telling people that anything and everything goes. That is simply not the case. I don't want my country to be under attack from an army of unhappy, unhinged raging Frankenstein's monsters, falsely believing themselves to be the apex of everything, 'cuz freedom and such. I want people to be happy, feel at home in their skins, no matter if they want to or can reproduce by sticking their naughty bits into the naughty bits of someone else or have their naughty bits or replacement bits penetrated by meat, syringe or silicone. I don't give a damn about other people's sex and ways of enjoying themselves when shagging like dogs. I don't want to know about all that. I really don't. I like to look at pictures of it every now and then, but that's my curiosity put to rest rather easily before I want to get some action on my own; I am simple like that and proud of it.

I personally think the whole trans thing is being blown out of proportion to the very detriment of each and every trans individual around. You have a job? You do it right? I'll throw money at you, and I'll probably never ask what bits you feature between your legs and what gets you off. You make your life all about scaring little kids and confusing people, I'm just bound to not like your face very much, no matter how tweaked or natural it is.

Accept the transgender. Accept the individual if it is what makes the individual you're confronted with happy. Transgender issues are probably as old as we are, straight from the ook ook days, for whatever reasons, be they chemical, physical or psychological. It's not something to want or strive for, though. It's not something to be proud of, methinks. It's something that needs some extra care and attention, and quite some extra management skills, as most of the folks I've known have, eventually, sooner or later offed themselves - either because society didn't see them the way they wanted to be seen or because they themselves were the most intolerant nazi pricks I've ever seen, some limiting their hatred to just their bodies and themselves, others being the most intolerable and most infuriating thundercunts in the most loving and accepting families, communities and villages imaginable.

We can't fix everything. I still think it's worth trying. But that's not a solo effort, y'know. Being a celebrity is a part-time job. It can get the bills paid. Living life is far more complicated than just going on stage.

Headdrivehardscrew:

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

Some boys/men simply identify as a female when asked and given the opportunity to explain themselves. Some of them have been raped. Some of them have not. Some just plain abhor the idea of carrying around the wiener and balls combo. Some are willing to cut them off themselves, which is generally a bad idea. Some are pressured into wanting things by society, politics or their own silly ideas.

It's complicated.

I appreciate your well meaning post but it's important to remember that trans individuals never were the gender they are transitioning from. A transwoman has never been a 'woman trapped in a man's body' and a transman has never been a 'man trapped in a woman's body'. It's an important distinction to draw because we're dealing with people here, not bodies.

ItsNotRudy:

Everyone' got their problems, mutilating yourself and not really looking like either gender doesn't really seem like a resolution. Men who want to feel like they're women still often look like men. Same goes for women going the other way. You'll still not be the opposite gender, you'll appear to be the opposite gender to the visually impaired or from a distance. We have a national celebrity who is transgender, and while I have to admit it's done very well (I'll assume it's the best money can buy), there are still features and voice traits that are a dead giveaway.

I'm sorry but that is simply not the case. The vast majority of trans individuals blend in extremely well, and about 9/10 times when you say, "ew, she looks like a man," that is in fact a cisgendered woman you are referring to. Just something to think about.

KOMega:
Sometimes I think the earth should be under attack from giant alien spiders or something.
We wouldn't judge each other under the fear of giant spiders, except maybe for our ability to fight said giant spiders.
Then maybe. Maybe we can all get along.
Except for those eaten by the spiders.

Unfortunately, no. Look at black military personnel in the US (and other nations) in WW2 and how they were treated. Admittedly, those people on the pointy end who ended up being shot at alongside black troops also being shot at tended to be less racist than those sitting comfortably away from the fighting, but still, it was very much an issue. They even segregated donor blood. Not sure if anyone was left to bleed to death rather than be transufed when there was only the "wrong" blood left.

Nokturos:

Proto Taco:
Guideline 8) Trans individuals are not 'fake' men/women.

They definitely are. Me dressing up as and acting like a giraffe doesn't make me a real giraffe, does it? Same logic applies here.

If you "dress up" as a giraffe and dont stay that way, then ya you wouldnt be. But if you had some chemical/physical alternation to make yourself more giraffe like then id say thats a good moniker for calling you a giraffe, assuming this change made you look like one enough.

The differences between men and women arent that numerous, and mitagable with technology, so to call a transgender women not a real women isnt very fair. They really meet the same case as intersexed women since in both cases intersexed women can have XY chromosomes and be visually women. Some dont even know they are intersexed until getting a serious examination. And yet we still call intersexed women , women, even though they dont have the right chromosomes. Some dont even take on a women form naturally because of their chromosomes and have to undergo HRT to achieve a female figure.

I guess the only real reason i even bothered to respond was to wonder why you had to be so dogmatic about your response in the first place.

Trying to lecture us uneducated plebians on correct terminology as pertaining to men and women who have undergone some sort of genital exchange surgery is really a quick way to make enemies of friends. At least in my experience. People can turn from not giving a flying fuck one way or the other to arguing against you just because you show up with some holier than thou attitude and start lecturing about what words and phrases people can and can not use. Better we all just agree to be nice to everybody and keep our thoughts about other peoples preferences to ourselves unless relevant or during political discourse.

How about...you treat people with the dignity and respect they deserve and judge the individual based on their personality? Seriously, I don't believe in being mean to someone whose not mean to you first.

If there's anything past that, all I have to say is DO NOT judge them based of the fucking SJWs'. For those that do not know, SJWs' are a poisonous little fringe group of mutants that are an off-shoot of civil rights groups. They tend to weasel their way into many anarchist, protest and civil rights groups, primarily dealing with feminism, LBGT rights, and so on...and also help to discredit those groups and attempt to alienate select members. Do not engage, ever.

How to spot an SJW, key characteristics-

1) Begin conversations with "Trigger warnings"
2) The whiter, the more pronouns they'll hide behind. This is not because they honestly identify as any of these things 70% of the time. It's so they can garner attention, sympathy and say bigoted things without fear of repercussion. (ie: "I'm a white, straight from a middle class family, but I identify as queergender, transabled, transgendered, two spirits and my trigger word is 'ferrets'")
3) Are offended by every joke they don't tell themselves.
4) Feel they are the authority on every culture, gender, sexual orientation and ethnicity.
5) Treat arguments like a game of Calvinball.
6) Cry things like "patriarchy" or "oppression" when they're proven wrong.

Proto Taco:

Headdrivehardscrew:

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

Some boys/men simply identify as a female when asked and given the opportunity to explain themselves. Some of them have been raped. Some of them have not. Some just plain abhor the idea of carrying around the wiener and balls combo. Some are willing to cut them off themselves, which is generally a bad idea. Some are pressured into wanting things by society, politics or their own silly ideas.

It's complicated.

I appreciate your well meaning post but it's important to remember that trans individuals never were the gender they are transitioning from. A transwoman has never been a 'woman trapped in a man's body' and a transman has never been a 'man trapped in a woman's body'. It's an important distinction to draw because we're dealing with people here, not bodies.

That one question is actually still lingering, a proper answer to it being... absent, to say the least. I get very conflicting information on this one, and it doesn't look like there's that one answer to rule them all coming in anytime soon.

From a physiological level, I am - after thirty years - quite certain that we will never be able to find an appropriate answer.

From a psychological level - all mind over matter - I think we're gaining ground, despite DSM-5. The discussion is enriched with fistfuls of politics, from both extreme camps, and it's those politics that betray professionals as well as the afflicted. I'd like to live to see the day we get answers.

I get that you personally do believe in the notion you posit here. I would like you to acknowledge - no matter who or what you are - that this is a hypothesis, a presumption, a very idealistic system, at the very most. I have seen not 'both' cases, I have seen a large number of cases, whereas I would have to struggle to find two that are very much alike. Some we can put down to something being wrong with the body, with the chemistry, with receptors, with hormones, with genetics. They are - by far - the minority. The struggle to put the rest of them into drawers is a battle that takes place well outside the interaction with the patients themselves. If they are patients, they have to be ill? Yes and no. If they are patients, can we medicate them to be and feel better? Yes and no. If they are patients, will an operation fix their issues and allow them to live happily ever after? Yes and no... and maybe. I don't have all the answers. You seem like you do. Enlighten me. Release me. Deliver me from Chaos. Thank you.

Proto Taco:

Headdrivehardscrew:

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

Some boys/men simply identify as a female when asked and given the opportunity to explain themselves. Some of them have been raped. Some of them have not. Some just plain abhor the idea of carrying around the wiener and balls combo. Some are willing to cut them off themselves, which is generally a bad idea. Some are pressured into wanting things by society, politics or their own silly ideas.

It's complicated.

I appreciate your well meaning post but it's important to remember that trans individuals never were the gender they are transitioning from. A transwoman has never been a 'woman trapped in a man's body' and a transman has never been a 'man trapped in a woman's body'. It's an important distinction to draw because we're dealing with people here, not bodies.

ItsNotRudy:

Everyone' got their problems, mutilating yourself and not really looking like either gender doesn't really seem like a resolution. Men who want to feel like they're women still often look like men. Same goes for women going the other way. You'll still not be the opposite gender, you'll appear to be the opposite gender to the visually impaired or from a distance. We have a national celebrity who is transgender, and while I have to admit it's done very well (I'll assume it's the best money can buy), there are still features and voice traits that are a dead giveaway.

I'm sorry but that is simply not the case. The vast majority of trans individuals blend in extremely well, and about 9/10 times when you say, "ew, she looks like a man," that is in fact a cisgendered woman you are referring to. Just something to think about.

I appreciate your well meaning post but it's important to remember that trans individuals never were the gender they are transitioning from. A transwoman has never been a 'woman trapped in a man's body' and a transman has never been a 'man trapped in a woman's body'. It's an important distinction to draw because we're dealing with people here, not bodies.

I dont want to speak for him, and if i am wrong in doing so sorry in advance, but i think he meant that transgender women think they are women, and there for some say they are "women(mentally) trapped in a male(physically) body. It s pretty popular response that transpeople give to describe their situation. I guess whatever defintion he was using for gender/sex also comes into play as well, but it just seemed like a hit and a miss.

Atrocious Joystick:
Better we all just agree to be nice to everybody and keep our thoughts about other peoples preferences to ourselves unless relevant or during political discourse.

Er, yes, if that was a likely alternative, I think that'd be the one people should go for.

That's quite a big "if" though.

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