Transgender and You: A guide to interacting the the trans public

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The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

It's not that they behave or think differently. It's how they feel comfortable. It's how they feel they should have been born. It's more than just hobbies and basic thought processes.

Nokturos:

Proto Taco:
Guideline 8) Trans individuals are not 'fake' men/women.

They definitely are. Me dressing up as and acting like a giraffe doesn't make me a real giraffe, does it? Same logic applies here.

You're wrong, offensive, and ignorant. If you think being transgender is someone simply wanting to wear clothing of the opposite sex into which they were born, then you obviously didn't even read the original post.

Atrocious Joystick:
Trying to lecture us uneducated plebians on correct terminology as pertaining to men and women who have undergone some sort of genital exchange surgery is really a quick way to make enemies of friends. At least in my experience. People can turn from not giving a flying fuck one way or the other to arguing against you just because you show up with some holier than thou attitude and start lecturing about what words and phrases people can and can not use. Better we all just agree to be nice to everybody and keep our thoughts about other peoples preferences to ourselves unless relevant or during political discourse.

If that's what people were doing that'd be one thing. However I can't go more than a few days without seeing some kind of pole asking some ridiculously sensationalized transgender related question hitting the front of the Escapist. Such posts are ignorant and disrespectful of the very real struggles trans individuals face on a daily basis with no one to turn to.

So will this post make me enemies? Sure, probably. Is it worth it? Hell yes, for me an every other trans individual who's too scared of saying anything for fear of retribution. I'm not 'proud' of being trans but I will fight until my last breath for equality and respect in spite of it.

Adam Lester:
How about...you treat people with the dignity and respect they deserve and judge the individual based on their personality? Seriously, I don't believe in being mean to someone whose not mean to you first.

If there's anything past that, all I have to say is DO NOT judge them based of the fucking SJWs'. For those that do not know, SJWs' are a poisonous little fringe group of mutants that are an off-shoot of civil rights groups. They tend to weasel their way into many anarchist, protest and civil rights groups, primarily dealing with feminism, LBGT rights, and so on...and also help to discredit those groups and attempt to alienate select members. Do not engage, ever.

How to spot an SJW, key characteristics-

1) Begin conversations with "Trigger warnings"
2) The whiter, the more pronouns they'll hide behind. This is not because they honestly identify as any of these things 70% of the time. It's so they can garner attention, sympathy and say bigoted things without fear of repercussion. (ie: "I'm a white, straight from a middle class family, but I identify as queergender, transabled, transgendered, two spirits and my trigger word is 'ferrets'")
3) Are offended by every joke they don't tell themselves.
4) Feel they are the authority on every culture, gender, sexual orientation and ethnicity.
5) Treat arguments like a game of Calvinball.
6) Cry things like "patriarchy" or "oppression" when they're proven wrong.

Why all the hate though? Maybe some of them do have transgender/homosexual thoughts and dont know how to deal with them?
Lets not throw them under the bus, when they could just be as confused as the next person. I mean the internet is a great way to express one's self w/o repercussion, so if they are in a environment where it is hostile to have these transgender feelings, calling them out wont do any good, especially when you can make mistakes and crucify someone actually suffering from the issues than a pretender.

thaluikhain:

They even segregated donor blood. Not sure if anyone was left to bleed to death rather than be transufed when there was only the "wrong" blood left.

They still do that, actually. It is medically preferable to keep donated blood within ethnic groups rather than moving it between ethnic groups due to antibody interactions. I have been told that hospitals in most countries will hold off on transfusions to patients in need if blood from that ethnic group is not available for as long as possible.
This may or may not have been the rationale behind segregated blood donation back in 1945, but there is still a definite medical reasoning behind it. Certainly this was a major problem for the British Commonwealth army, given that they had service members from radically diverse backgrounds. They resolved it by keeping blood donations specific to each regional unit and sometimes specific to each individual battalion. There was never an instance of a British Indian Army soldier giving blood to an ANZAC, for example.

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

Quite a few of them don't. They just get hormone replacement therapy and leave their junk as it is (as I understand it the sex reassignment surgery is comparatively expensive, complicated and risky as far as elective plastic surgery goes). Considerably more of the MtF trans folk will get breast implants because they are cheap and simple compared to the genital surgery.

There's a MtF trans that used to post on NSWATM and still posts on Genderratic who is non-op and pretty open about the whole trans topic. We did get into an argument about what was and was not "intervening" wrt puberty and hormone blocking drugs once though.

SNORE.

Why don't just do what I always do and treat everyone I meet with a reasonable amount of respect? You don't get special treatment because you want to be the opposite gender.

Proto Taco:

So today I'm going to lay out a few basic guidelines for respectfully interacting with people who happen to belong under the 'trans umbrella'.

Tell you what: I'll treat people the way I want to be treated, and beyond that point, I won't give a crack what they want me do in terms of catering to them. You don't get to change etiquette and the English language because you made an esoteric life choice.

Here's what I mean: I won't make any remark like "Wow, you make an ugly woman," any more than I'd tell a cis-woman that she's straight-up ugly. But if I see you for the first time and see a human with an Adam's apple and a pink tank top and refer to you as "he," don't get mad. I'm not going to turn on "walking on eggshells" mode simply due to your sexual preferences. In fact, could the kind of sex you see yourself as just generally have less to do with our friendly intereactions? Shouldn't be that big a part of your identity.

The Apple BOOM:
Woot, finally a thread where I can ask questions.

The thing I don't understand, is why someone would feel the need to change themselves physically. Why do they need to change their genitals just because they think differently than most people of the same sex?

Speaking for myself, it's not that I think differently than men or that I think more similarly to men. I went to college to study primarily mathematics and computer science. Sure, I studied other things too but my paradigm tends to be a fairly analytic one. By stereotype, that is a more masculine frame of reference. My hobbies include fencing and RPGs. More generally male-dominated hobbies. It's not how I think, but how I feel.

It's always been surprising that I can't slip fingers inside myself or just press down with a few finger tips if I wanted to get off. It's always been a very natural motion to me which gets interrupted because my anatomy at the present. It isn't a matter of my sexual orientation because I've been with men, women, and others and enjoyed all of them relatively equally in so far as they were concerned. When it came to me though, it's always been a fairly hands-off affair.

The first internet account I had that my parents didn't know about registered as [x] female instead of [ ] male. Much like the OP said, it wasn't a concerted effort to hide my gender or to trick anyone. It was just natural. Even now, I wouldn't say I'm super feminine. I only wear make up for extremely special occasions (which didn't include a friend's wedding though I would if they had asked), in general I wear jeans and pants instead of skirts and dresses, etc. Other things that I do are more feminine, but my gender identity doesn't relate to my interests.

wombat_of_war:

Rosiv:
TBH i think this thread is a waste of your time, no offense. But anyone who needs a guide on how to treat people nicely really wouldn't gather anything from it anyways. And the ones that are so "opinionated" on the notion that trans-people cant be seen as the gender they aim to be wont be swayed either, for examples, see the other on going transgender thread.

And as for discussion value, im not sure what can be gained from this topic besides dissenting opinions and "MTF transwomen are still men" comments.

a bit of education doesnt hurt and this community can frankly be pretty vicious and could do with some tolerance. funny if you are gay here or support gay rights no one bats an eye lid but this topic freaks people out like gay rights did 40 years ago

Please direct me to the thread where that happened here because I've never seen it.

mrblakemiller:

Proto Taco:

So today I'm going to lay out a few basic guidelines for respectfully interacting with people who happen to belong under the 'trans umbrella'.

Tell you what: I'll treat people the way I want to be treated, and beyond that point, I won't give a crack what they want me do in terms of catering to them. You don't get to change etiquette and the English language because you made an esoteric life choice.

Here's what I mean: I won't make any remark like "Wow, you make an ugly woman," any more than I'd tell a cis-woman that she's straight-up ugly. But if I see you for the first time and see a human with an Adam's apple and a pink tank top and refer to you as "he," don't get mad. I'm not going to turn on "walking on eggshells" mode simply due to your sexual preferences. In fact, could the kind of sex you see yourself as just generally have less to do with our friendly intereactions? Shouldn't be that big a part of your identity.

Calling being trans a sexual preference connotates it being almost like a sexuality, which it isn't really. And for the record, women can have adam apples, its just the angle of the voice box and the size. Yea its more common in men, but uncommon women exists. It just be a poor move to assume that just because someone has a adam's apple they are male, and rude too, they are dressed in female clothing, so unless they were unpassable to the point they were "rocky balboa in a dress" which is hyperbolic if anything, calling them men just seems dogmatic.

And for your last point, if sex wasnt a big deal to transpeople i doubt they would transition in the first place, so its a moot point almost.

mrblakemiller:

Proto Taco:

So today I'm going to lay out a few basic guidelines for respectfully interacting with people who happen to belong under the 'trans umbrella'.

Tell you what: I'll treat people the way I want to be treated, and beyond that point, I won't give a crack what they want me do in terms of catering to them. You don't get to change etiquette and the English language because you made an esoteric life choice.

Here's what I mean: I won't make any remark like "Wow, you make an ugly woman," any more than I'd tell a cis-woman that she's straight-up ugly. But if I see you for the first time and see a human with an Adam's apple and a pink tank top and refer to you as "he," don't get mad. I'm not going to turn on "walking on eggshells" mode simply due to your sexual preferences. In fact, could the kind of sex you see yourself as just generally have less to do with our friendly intereactions? Shouldn't be that big a part of your identity.

Syzygy23:
SNORE.

Why don't just do what I always do and treat everyone I meet with a reasonable amount of respect? You don't get special treatment because you want to be the opposite gender.

I pretty much have to agree here. I'm not changing the way I go about my day-to-day life so I don't offend somebody.

thaluikhain:

KOMega:
Sometimes I think the earth should be under attack from giant alien spiders or something.
We wouldn't judge each other under the fear of giant spiders, except maybe for our ability to fight said giant spiders.
Then maybe. Maybe we can all get along.
Except for those eaten by the spiders.

Unfortunately, no. Look at black military personnel in the US (and other nations) in WW2 and how they were treated. Admittedly, those people on the pointy end who ended up being shot at alongside black troops also being shot at tended to be less racist than those sitting comfortably away from the fighting, but still, it was very much an issue. They even segregated donor blood. Not sure if anyone was left to bleed to death rather than be transufed when there was only the "wrong" blood left.

I see. Shame.
I suppose I'll have to call off the attack then. :P

btbushi:

It's always been surprising that I can't slip fingers inside myself or just press down with a few finger tips if I wanted to get off. It's always been a very natural motion to me which gets interrupted because my anatomy at the present.

I've actually been quite curious about that too. I find the female anatomy to have a lot more potential to be... uh... pleasing. Shame I can't test this in any way.

btbushi:

The first internet account I had that my parents didn't know about registered as [x] female instead of [ ] male. Much like the OP said, it wasn't a concerted effort to hide my gender or to trick anyone.

As a kid one of the things I liked to do was see how others behaved if I changed my behavior in certain ways and then contrast it with how they behaved around others using the same behaviors. (i.e. loud swearing while gaming, which seemed to be perceived as an endearing property in some people which I found strange.)
One of these I decided to see how the people of the internet would treat me if they thought I was a girl.

The results were hilarious imo.
I suppose it was quite successful because it also required less acting.

Kennetic:

mrblakemiller:

Proto Taco:

So today I'm going to lay out a few basic guidelines for respectfully interacting with people who happen to belong under the 'trans umbrella'.

Tell you what: I'll treat people the way I want to be treated, and beyond that point, I won't give a crack what they want me do in terms of catering to them. You don't get to change etiquette and the English language because you made an esoteric life choice.

Here's what I mean: I won't make any remark like "Wow, you make an ugly woman," any more than I'd tell a cis-woman that she's straight-up ugly. But if I see you for the first time and see a human with an Adam's apple and a pink tank top and refer to you as "he," don't get mad. I'm not going to turn on "walking on eggshells" mode simply due to your sexual preferences. In fact, could the kind of sex you see yourself as just generally have less to do with our friendly intereactions? Shouldn't be that big a part of your identity.

Syzygy23:
SNORE.

Why don't just do what I always do and treat everyone I meet with a reasonable amount of respect? You don't get special treatment because you want to be the opposite gender.

I pretty much have to agree here. I'm not changing the way I go about my day-to-day life so I don't offend somebody.

Is it really "special treatment" to make considerations for a subclass of people who have huge suicide and depression rates? If you cant empathize on their gender struggles, empathize on the fact that alot of people give them crap for simply existing, which i theorize can cause alot of sadness, depression, ect...

It just seems odd that people cant make the smallest exceptions to improve others lives dramatically. I heard of a transgender women who was mis-gendered(called man when we was a transgender women) shopping. She was so devastated she hung her self the night she went home. A simple word can hurt these people, but i just wanted to express my feelings on it, i cant force you to change.

Proto Taco:

Atrocious Joystick:
.

If that's what people were doing that'd be one thing. However I can't go more than a few days without seeing some kind of pole asking some ridiculously sensationalized transgender related question hitting the front of the Escapist. Such posts are ignorant and disrespectful of the very real struggles trans individuals face on a daily basis with no one to turn to.

So will this post make me enemies? Sure, probably. Is it worth it? Hell yes, for me an every other trans individual who's too scared of saying anything for fear of retribution. I'm not 'proud' of being trans but I will fight until my last breath for equality and respect in spite of it.

You can't stop people from being dicks. Telling them to stop being dicks will probably make them even larger dicks. We all have our own struggles and we all face our own prejudices, some larger than others. That includes the whitest and straightest of us. As long as you have reliable people to turn to you can't let it affect you. The problem with targeting large groups (such as all of this here internet forum) is that you will inevitably mostly hit people who had no real problem with you and then you are going to turn them against you because they are going to think that you're the dick. Just look at how many who are for equality of opportunity, equal pay and equal rights for men and women and still would not even come close to calling themselves feminists. Because feminists to them are those crazy women who think all men are animals. Of course no man and no sane woman could get aboard that train even if they agree with the basic premise of equal rights.

Proto Taco:
le snippage

Okay question: I have a friend who is a MtF, and has decided to make the full transition (has already started crossdressing, and plans on doing hormones in a few years). Anyway, we were talking about it, and I brought up how they've done scans of transgender people's brains and found that they really do have the brain of the gender they feel they are, rather than appear to be, and how it's thought to be related to birth complications. However, she felt that it was due to being physically abused by her mother when she was a child, and therefore came to associate being female with having power. And while that sounds probable, she came to this conclusion through her middle school psychology class and has never been professionally diagnosed, so I question the accuracy of her claims.

So my question is: does that sort of thing happen, or is she making connections that aren't necessarily accurate?

Atrocious Joystick:

Proto Taco:

Atrocious Joystick:
.

If that's what people were doing that'd be one thing. However I can't go more than a few days without seeing some kind of pole asking some ridiculously sensationalized transgender related question hitting the front of the Escapist. Such posts are ignorant and disrespectful of the very real struggles trans individuals face on a daily basis with no one to turn to.

So will this post make me enemies? Sure, probably. Is it worth it? Hell yes, for me an every other trans individual who's too scared of saying anything for fear of retribution. I'm not 'proud' of being trans but I will fight until my last breath for equality and respect in spite of it.

You can't stop people from being dicks. Telling them to stop being dicks will probably make them even larger dicks. We all have our own struggles and we all face our own prejudices, some larger than others. That includes the whitest and straightest of us. As long as you have reliable people to turn to you can't let it affect you. The problem with targeting large groups (such as all of this here internet forum) is that you will inevitably mostly hit people who had no real problem with you and then you are going to turn them against you because they are going to think that you're the dick. Just look at how many who are for equality of opportunity, equal pay and equal rights for men and women and still would not even come close to calling themselves feminists. Because feminists to them are those crazy women who think all men are animals. Of course no man and no sane woman could get aboard that train even if they agree with the basic premise of equal rights.

The transgender have no one to turn to. They can't go to mommy or daddy and cry about their troubles. Often times their mommy and daddy will throw them out the door for so much as mentioning their troubles. Do not trivialize the suffering of others merely because it's not your suffering.

Rosiv:
TBH i think this thread is a waste of your time, no offense. But anyone who needs a guide on how to treat people nicely really wouldn't gather anything from it anyways. And the ones that are so "opinionated" on the notion that trans-people cant be seen as the gender they aim to be wont be swayed either, for examples, see the other on going transgender thread.

And as for discussion value, im not sure what can be gained from this topic besides dissenting opinions and "MTF transwomen are still men" comments.

I think it's useful. Some people are fine with trans people but don't know a whole lot about them or how to interact with them about causing offense. This thread will catch their eye and they'll be better equipped for the future.

I'm just going to stick to my original policy of talking to everyone I meet like they're a human being, regardless of their gender, colour, religion, nationality or who they like to pork. As long as they don't start our conversation with, 'hi I'm an x, by the way' we have no problems.

I do have one question though, in regards to trans people who don't take the surgery: what is the difference between men and women, mentally? I know all the old cliches, but does it really just come down to hormone imbalances? I'm just thinking that if many trans people are quite happy to live without having the plumbing done, then why they can't just be content being a woman in a man's body? This dysphoria thing is confusing me.

Proto Taco:

Atrocious Joystick:
.

The transgender have no one to turn to. They can't go to mommy or daddy and cry about their troubles. Often times their mommy and daddy will throw them out the door for so much as mentioning their troubles. Do not trivialize the suffering of others merely because it's not your suffering.

I don't know how to answer that. I was merely commenting that by trying to lecture people about what they can and can not say you are bound to make enemies where you previously had none. I wasn't trying to trivialize anyone's struggles.

TakerFoxx:

Proto Taco:
le snippage

Okay question: I have a friend who is a MtF, and has decided to make the full transition (has already started crossdressing, and plans on doing hormones in a few years). Anyway, we were talking about it, and I brought up how they've done scans of transgender people's brains and found that they really do have the brain of the gender they feel they are, rather than appear to be, and how it's thought to be related to birth complications. However, she felt that it was due to being physically abused by her mother when she was a child, and therefore came to associate being female with having power. And while that sounds probable, she came to this conclusion through her middle school psychology class and has never been professionally diagnosed, so I question the accuracy of her claims.

So my question is: does that sort of thing happen, or is she making connections that aren't necessarily accurate?

Little is actually known about what causes gender dysphoria. Granted there is strong medical evidence that it indeed does result from birth complications, but nothing conclusive has ever been proven given how difficult it is to examine the inside of a living person. It's also considered dubious, in reputable psychology circles, that trauma or extreme circumstances can cause a major shift in someone's gender paradigm to the point of 'making' them transgender. However, regardless of what caused it her situation is very real to her and should be respected as such. For anything more specific she's going to have to get in to see someone, I'm not qualified to hand out a diagnosis.

Also, if she's started dressing appropriately for her gender it wouldn't be considered 'cross dressing'. Just a tip.

TakerFoxx:

Proto Taco:
le snippage

Okay question: I have a friend who is a MtF, and has decided to make the full transition (has already started crossdressing, and plans on doing hormones in a few years). Anyway, we were talking about it, and I brought up how they've done scans of transgender people's brains and found that they really do have the brain of the gender they feel they are, rather than appear to be, and how it's thought to be related to birth complications. However, she felt that it was due to being physically abused by her mother when she was a child, and therefore came to associate being female with having power. And while that sounds probable, she came to this conclusion through her middle school psychology class and has never been professionally diagnosed, so I question the accuracy of her claims.

So my question is: does that sort of thing happen, or is she making connections that aren't necessarily accurate?

There isnt alot of solid science either way, the brain studies only go so far, as they don't rule out environmental factors, and the similar studies have been done on gay men, with similar results, so if anything we don't have conclusive evidence of anything.

I mean honestly if she thinks that abuse is a reason maybe she should see a pycologist that specializes in this area. She might have to anyways for bearing on the region you live, consultation before any chemical HRT is usually required.

The important thing is that she is comfertable with herself as she is now, and hopfully is transistioning for herself than just out of some notion of power.

Atrocious Joystick:

Proto Taco:

Atrocious Joystick:
.

The transgender have no one to turn to. They can't go to mommy or daddy and cry about their troubles. Often times their mommy and daddy will throw them out the door for so much as mentioning their troubles. Do not trivialize the suffering of others merely because it's not your suffering.

I don't know how to answer that. I was merely commenting that by trying to lecture people about what they can and can not say you are bound to make enemies where you previously had none. I wasn't trying to trivialize anyone's struggles.

I appreciate your honesty.

I'm not here to lecture or give anyone the 'high hat' however I see a lot of innocent ignorance on a daily basis and it is so simple to just do a few key things to let people know you care about them even if you don't know how to feel about their situation. So I put this together to remove the ambiguity from the conversation and condense the key points into a reasonably easy to understand format in an effort to increase awareness.

If that makes me enemies I'm ok with that.

rob_simple:
I'm just going to stick to my original policy of talking to everyone I meet like they're a human being, regardless of their gender, colour, religion, nationality or who they like to pork. As long as they don't start our conversation with, 'hi I'm an x, by the way' we have no problems.

I do have one question though, in regards to trans people who don't take the surgery: what is the difference between men and women, mentally? I know all the old cliches, but does it really just come down to hormone imbalances? I'm just thinking that if many trans people are quite happy to live without having the plumbing done, then why they can't just be content being a woman in a man's body? This dysphoria thing is confusing me.

As many have said, there is no hard evidence that there even is a difference between men and women mentality, for neurology as a science is still in its infancy. I guess to answer the question about being conetent, is anyone ever really? I mean if someone wants something and doesnt need it, they can live without it, the quailty of their life just might be a little less. And when it comes to surgical intervention, since a vaginoplasty can cost around 30,000$, i guess that alot of transgender women just learn to live without.

Treat transgenders the same as youd treat anyone else.
/thread

What i will not do is call a he and she because a guy suffers from a horrid mix of psychological abnormalities. If i see a naked king, im going to say the king is naked.

Rosiv:

rob_simple:
I'm just going to stick to my original policy of talking to everyone I meet like they're a human being, regardless of their gender, colour, religion, nationality or who they like to pork. As long as they don't start our conversation with, 'hi I'm an x, by the way' we have no problems.

I do have one question though, in regards to trans people who don't take the surgery: what is the difference between men and women, mentally? I know all the old cliches, but does it really just come down to hormone imbalances? I'm just thinking that if many trans people are quite happy to live without having the plumbing done, then why they can't just be content being a woman in a man's body? This dysphoria thing is confusing me.

As many have said, there is no hard evidence that there even is a difference between men and women mentality, for neurology as a science is still in its infancy. I guess to answer the question about being conetent, is anyone ever really? I mean if someone wants something and doesnt need it, they can live without it, the quailty of their life just might be a little less. And when it comes to surgical intervention, since a vaginoplasty can cost around 30,000$, i guess that alot of transgender women just learn to live without.

Yeah that's kind of what I mean, there are things about my life I'd change if I could, and mentally I have some aberrations that I'd rather not, but no one is ever really, truly completely happy in themselves.

I'm just trying to figure out what the difference is here between trans and everyone else.

90sgamer:
Treat transgenders the same as youd treat anyone else.
/thread

What i will not do is call a he and she because a guy suffers from a horrid mix of psychological abnormalities. If i see a naked king, im going to say the king is naked.

If you truly thought of them as being "psychological abnormalities" wouldnt the right thing to do under the

Treat transgenders the same as youd treat anyone else.

mantra be to use polite discorse, by calling them their prefered pronouns? I mean, its not that hard to treat people nicely, if you see a manly looking women, there is no solid evidence she is transgender anyways, so you could be making a misstep really, and causing offense.

90sgamer:
Treat transgenders the same as youd treat anyone else.
/thread

What i will not do is call a he and she because a guy suffers from a horrid mix of psychological abnormalities. If i see a naked king, im going to say the king is naked.

It's good to know you treat everyone else with contempt and inconsideration.

Rosiv:

Kennetic:

mrblakemiller:

Tell you what: I'll treat people the way I want to be treated, and beyond that point, I won't give a crack what they want me do in terms of catering to them. You don't get to change etiquette and the English language because you made an esoteric life choice.

Here's what I mean: I won't make any remark like "Wow, you make an ugly woman," any more than I'd tell a cis-woman that she's straight-up ugly. But if I see you for the first time and see a human with an Adam's apple and a pink tank top and refer to you as "he," don't get mad. I'm not going to turn on "walking on eggshells" mode simply due to your sexual preferences. In fact, could the kind of sex you see yourself as just generally have less to do with our friendly intereactions? Shouldn't be that big a part of your identity.

Syzygy23:
SNORE.

Why don't just do what I always do and treat everyone I meet with a reasonable amount of respect? You don't get special treatment because you want to be the opposite gender.

I pretty much have to agree here. I'm not changing the way I go about my day-to-day life so I don't offend somebody.

Is it really "special treatment" to make considerations for a subclass of people who have huge suicide and depression rates? If you cant empathize on their gender struggles, empathize on the fact that alot of people give them crap for simply existing, which i theorize can cause alot of sadness, depression, ect...

It just seems odd that people cant make the smallest exceptions to improve others lives dramatically. I heard of a transgender women who was mis-gendered(called man when we was a transgender women) shopping. She was so devastated she hung her self the night she went home. A simple word can hurt these people, but i just wanted to express my feelings on it, i cant force you to change.

Yes, it is special treatment. Look, I'm not going to treat them any worse than I would anyone else. If they killed themselves because someone called them a man, then they probably shouldn't have gone outside at all if they couldn't handle some words. I was picked on all the way into adulthood and it made me a stronger person. Of course, I have very little sympathy for suicide so that's not to call out that particular person.

So basically all I need to do is not really give a shit and I'm all set.

Seriously, I generally don't care what gender you are, and if I get pronouns mixed up a simple "please, I'm a boy/girl" is fine.

Rosiv:

90sgamer:
Treat transgenders the same as youd treat anyone else.
/thread

What i will not do is call a he and she because a guy suffers from a horrid mix of psychological abnormalities. If i see a naked king, im going to say the king is naked.

If you truly thought of them as being "psychological abnormalities" wouldnt the right thing to do under the

Treat transgenders the same as youd treat anyone else.

mantra be to use polite discorse, by calling them their prefered pronouns? I mean, its not that hard to treat people nicely, if you see a manly looking women, there is no solid evidence she is transgender anyways, so you could be making a misstep really, and causing offense.

Is it polite to tell the naked king that his robes look quite fine? I would argue that it is a lie. Telling lies is not polite.

In Search of Username:

90sgamer:
Treat transgenders the same as youd treat anyone else.
/thread

What i will not do is call a he and she because a guy suffers from a horrid mix of psychological abnormalities. If i see a naked king, im going to say the king is naked.

It's good to know you treat everyone else with contempt and inconsideration.

Thats exactly right.

Hey, while we are on the subject, you should know that i suffer from depression. It would be very kind of you to accomodate me in a reasonable way by not causing me to become upset. You should therefor just agree with my assertions, it would be the considerate thing to do in light of my medical condition.

Thanks for making this thread - I knew pretty much all of this already but its good to know in case I ever meet a transperson IRL.

And I'll leave it at that, because I don't want to get involved in the arguments that are inevitable going to occur over you trying to help people.

rob_simple:

Rosiv:

rob_simple:
I'm just going to stick to my original policy of talking to everyone I meet like they're a human being, regardless of their gender, colour, religion, nationality or who they like to pork. As long as they don't start our conversation with, 'hi I'm an x, by the way' we have no problems.

I do have one question though, in regards to trans people who don't take the surgery: what is the difference between men and women, mentally? I know all the old cliches, but does it really just come down to hormone imbalances? I'm just thinking that if many trans people are quite happy to live without having the plumbing done, then why they can't just be content being a woman in a man's body? This dysphoria thing is confusing me.

As many have said, there is no hard evidence that there even is a difference between men and women mentality, for neurology as a science is still in its infancy. I guess to answer the question about being conetent, is anyone ever really? I mean if someone wants something and doesnt need it, they can live without it, the quailty of their life just might be a little less. And when it comes to surgical intervention, since a vaginoplasty can cost around 30,000$, i guess that alot of transgender women just learn to live without.

Yeah that's kind of what I mean, there are things about my life I'd change if I could, and mentally I have some aberrations that I'd rather not, but no one is ever really, truly completely happy in themselves.

I'm just trying to figure out what the difference is here between trans and everyone else.

Maybe there isnt really a difference and they are just men who choose to be women a la a socially constructed view of gender, maybe there is a difference thats biological and there is a fundamental intrinsic feeling of being a women that transgender women have.

I dont think we will find the difference if it exists, any time soon. Should the differences even matter really? As long as they are comfortable i dont think its something to mull over.

I'm going to assume that whoever reads this gives a shit and whoever doesn't give a shit won't read this:

I've found that if you're having trouble with pronouns to just not use them. Use the person's name instead. Yeah, it sounds a bit strange to use their name over and over, but it works until you can lock in the new pronouns. It worked for me and my transgender housemate.

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