Transgender and You: A guide to interacting the the trans public

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now this could just be me ofcourse, but shouldn't you just treat transgenders the same as anyone else?
that just seems like the most reasonable thing to do, then again not many people are all that reasonable.

i do have to ask though, are transgenders so prevalent in your area that you think it is a rather common occurance or something because i hardly ever encounter a transgender person, even when i went to party in amsterdam i didn't exactly see many transgender people at all. i guess i just find it hard to see a necessity for a topic like this, oh well.

Rosiv:

rob_simple:

Rosiv:

As many have said, there is no hard evidence that there even is a difference between men and women mentality, for neurology as a science is still in its infancy. I guess to answer the question about being conetent, is anyone ever really? I mean if someone wants something and doesnt need it, they can live without it, the quailty of their life just might be a little less. And when it comes to surgical intervention, since a vaginoplasty can cost around 30,000$, i guess that alot of transgender women just learn to live without.

Yeah that's kind of what I mean, there are things about my life I'd change if I could, and mentally I have some aberrations that I'd rather not, but no one is ever really, truly completely happy in themselves.

I'm just trying to figure out what the difference is here between trans and everyone else.

Maybe there isnt really a difference and they are just men who choose to be women a la a socially constructed view of gender, maybe there is a difference thats biological and there is a fundamental intrinsic feeling of being a women that transgender women have.

I dont think we will find the difference if it exists, any time soon. Should the differences even matter really? As long as they are comfortable i dont think its something to mull over.

Oh no, totally I agree, it was just something I was curious about, I didn't mean I demanded an explanation. I like trying to see things from other people's viewpoint when at all possible, I find it makes me a much less judgemental person.

In Search of Username:

90sgamer:

In Search of Username:

It's good to know you treat everyone else with contempt and inconsideration.

Thats exactly right.

Hey, while we are on the subject, you should know that i suffer from depression. It would be very kind of you to accomodate me in a reasonable way by not causing me to become upset. You should therefor just agree with my assertions, it would be the considerate thing to do in light of my medical condition.

You're being a cunt. Trans people, widely speaking, have done nothing to warrant you being rude to them. Don't try to act like it's comparable.

Reductio ad Absurdum. To refute one's argument by taking it to its ridiculous logical conclusion. I think you missed it. To wit: I am a cunt for asking for very minor special treatment because of a medical condition; however, you think it's reasonable for someone else with a different, comparable medical condition to ask for very minor special treatment. You might want to examine yourself to discover why you are not consistent.

Proto Taco:

Guideline 6) If someone denies they're trans, regardless of how strong your suspicions may be, just let it go. Being trans is dangerous; your odds of being murdered go up to 1 in 12 if you're trans and the majority of trans murderers get off scot free. If someone doesn't want to tell you they're trans, that's their business and they're most likely scared of how you will react. If you're dating them and this happens then simply take the guidelines here into consideration and handle the situation as kindly and tactfully as you can. Otherwise, just let it go.

image

care to posts some sources to back your claim on this part?

mrblakemiller:
Shouldn't be that big a part of your identity.

Am I to assume that your gender isn't an important part of your identity, and that I can refer to you as a woman if I arbitrarily felt like doing so?

90sgamer:

Rosiv:

90sgamer:
Treat transgenders the same as youd treat anyone else.
/thread

What i will not do is call a he and she because a guy suffers from a horrid mix of psychological abnormalities. If i see a naked king, im going to say the king is naked.

If you truly thought of them as being "psychological abnormalities" wouldnt the right thing to do under the

Treat transgenders the same as youd treat anyone else.

mantra be to use polite discorse, by calling them their prefered pronouns? I mean, its not that hard to treat people nicely, if you see a manly looking women, there is no solid evidence she is transgender anyways, so you could be making a misstep really, and causing offense.

Is it polite to tell the naked king that his robes look quite fine? I would argue that it is a lie. Telling lies is not polite.

You dont have to tell a transgender women they are attractive, you just need to use tact really. I mean i guess this all falls upon how you treat other people. Do you tell them every single thought that comes to mind? If so see a ugly women, do you tell them, "Your ugly" , or do you hold your opinion for their benefit? I mean on a later comment you posted you said you suffered from depression, and i should agree with your assertions. That is not what im asking, although it would be nice if you did. You can disagree with someone all you want as long as you are civil about it, the minute you stop being civil is the minute you cant be taken seriously in having a mature discussion.

And as for telling lies, its contextual really, i have a few choice words for how your behaving right now, but im not telling you them because im trying to be polite. Its not really lying, just putting a filter on your thoughts, anyone in a professional setting knows how to do it really.

Atrocious Joystick:

Proto Taco:

Atrocious Joystick:
.

The transgender have no one to turn to. They can't go to mommy or daddy and cry about their troubles. Often times their mommy and daddy will throw them out the door for so much as mentioning their troubles. Do not trivialize the suffering of others merely because it's not your suffering.

I don't know how to answer that. I was merely commenting that by trying to lecture people about what they can and can not say you are bound to make enemies where you previously had none. I wasn't trying to trivialize anyone's struggles.

I didn't see anything in the OP about what can and can't be said, just what should be said if you want to be polite. And personally, I find this pretty useful. I consider myself a nice, polite person, but I don't have any experience with trans folks. So, if I ever find myself in a social setting with someone I know to be trans, or suspect as such, this seems like good reference material.

Kennetic:

Rosiv:

Kennetic:

I pretty much have to agree here. I'm not changing the way I go about my day-to-day life so I don't offend somebody.

Is it really "special treatment" to make considerations for a subclass of people who have huge suicide and depression rates? If you cant empathize on their gender struggles, empathize on the fact that alot of people give them crap for simply existing, which i theorize can cause alot of sadness, depression, ect...

It just seems odd that people cant make the smallest exceptions to improve others lives dramatically. I heard of a transgender women who was mis-gendered(called man when we was a transgender women) shopping. She was so devastated she hung her self the night she went home. A simple word can hurt these people, but i just wanted to express my feelings on it, i cant force you to change.

Yes, it is special treatment. Look, I'm not going to treat them any worse than I would anyone else. If they killed themselves because someone called them a man, then they probably shouldn't have gone outside at all if they couldn't handle some words. I was picked on all the way into adulthood and it made me a stronger person. Of course, I have very little sympathy for suicide so that's not to call out that particular person.

You ARE kind of treating them worse if you dont consider their feelings, although it depends on how you consider peoples feelings in general. I mean if a crippled person passed your way, you wouldnt be totally rude to them by asking them personal questions about their crippled limb, so why not afford transgenders the same accommodations? You said you were bullied and picked on and it made you a stronger person. In what way? Cause all i see now is a lack of consideration.

Rosiv:

90sgamer:

Rosiv:

If you truly thought of them as being "psychological abnormalities" wouldnt the right thing to do under the
mantra be to use polite discorse, by calling them their prefered pronouns? I mean, its not that hard to treat people nicely, if you see a manly looking women, there is no solid evidence she is transgender anyways, so you could be making a misstep really, and causing offense.

Is it polite to tell the naked king that his robes look quite fine? I would argue that it is a lie. Telling lies is not polite.

You dont have to tell a transgender women they are attractive, you just need to use tact really. I mean i guess this all falls upon how you treat other people. Do you tell them every single thought that comes to mind? If so see a ugly women, do you tell them, "Your ugly" , or do you hold your opinion for their benefit? I mean on a later comment you posted you said you suffered from depression, and i should agree with your assertions. That is not what im asking, although it would be nice if you did. You can disagree with someone all you want as long as you are civil about it, the minute you stop being civil is the minute you cant be taken seriously in having a mature discussion.

And as for telling lies, its contextual really, i have a few choice words for how your behaving right now, but im not telling you them because im trying to be polite. Its not really lying, just putting a filter on your thoughts, anyone in a professional setting knows how to do it really.

Where did attraction come into the discussion between you and I? You are asking people to call a He and She because He wants to be a She. If I have cause to refer to someone in a manner than reveals their gender, then I will say they are the gender that they actually are. That's all I'm saying. I'm not going to going out of my way to be nice or nasty. Facts are facts. Reality is not perception.

In Search of Username:

90sgamer:

In Search of Username:

You're being a cunt. Trans people, widely speaking, have done nothing to warrant you being rude to them. Don't try to act like it's comparable.

Reductio ad Absurdum. To refute one's argument by taking it to its ridiculous logical conclusion. I think you missed it. To wit: I am a cunt for asking for very minor special treatment because of a medical condition; however, you think it's reasonable for someone else with a different, comparable medical condition to ask for very minor special treatment. You might want to examine yourself to discover why you are not consistent.

Asking everyone to agree with your views at all times is not 'very minor special treatment'. And you are not a cunt for asking for it, you are a cunt for your refusal to give trans people something that actually is very minor special treatment.

Get it?

Thanks for clarifying. Enjoy your mod warning for personal attacks. We should all act like you, clearly.

KOMega:
I've actually been quite curious about that too. I find the female anatomy to have a lot more potential to be... uh... pleasing. Shame I can't test this in any way.

Well, if one of us remembers then you should ask me in about 5 months what the difference it and I'll be glad to try and let you know the difference as I perceive it. Also as biased from the point of view "this feels wrong and that feels like it would be right."

KOMega:
As a kid one of the things I liked to do was see how others behaved if I changed my behavior in certain ways and then contrast it with how they behaved around others using the same behaviors. (i.e. loud swearing while gaming, which seemed to be perceived as an endearing property in some people which I found strange.)
One of these I decided to see how the people of the internet would treat me if they thought I was a girl.

The results were hilarious imo.
I suppose it was quite successful because it also required less acting.

I can definitely understand that, and I've done similar experiments (though it didn't involve gender. Any time I had a net presence unless it could be traced to me in RL before I came out, I presented as female). On the whole, I haven't really experienced the "Get in the kitchen, girl" comments but rarely. I have heard the flip side of that though, where people shame others because "ze little girl did better than you newb" and that is occasionally as frustrating. sually in cases or games where I feel like I'm actually pretty decent so my gender certainly shouldn't be the issue they point to. Eh, it's a thing.

Rosiv:

Kennetic:

Rosiv:

Is it really "special treatment" to make considerations for a subclass of people who have huge suicide and depression rates? If you cant empathize on their gender struggles, empathize on the fact that alot of people give them crap for simply existing, which i theorize can cause alot of sadness, depression, ect...

It just seems odd that people cant make the smallest exceptions to improve others lives dramatically. I heard of a transgender women who was mis-gendered(called man when we was a transgender women) shopping. She was so devastated she hung her self the night she went home. A simple word can hurt these people, but i just wanted to express my feelings on it, i cant force you to change.

Yes, it is special treatment. Look, I'm not going to treat them any worse than I would anyone else. If they killed themselves because someone called them a man, then they probably shouldn't have gone outside at all if they couldn't handle some words. I was picked on all the way into adulthood and it made me a stronger person. Of course, I have very little sympathy for suicide so that's not to call out that particular person.

You ARE kind of treating them worse if you dont consider their feelings, although it depends on how you consider peoples feelings in general. I mean if a crippled person passed your way, you wouldnt be totally rude to them by asking them personal questions about their crippled limb, so why not afford transgenders the same accommodations? You said you were bullied and picked on and it made you a stronger person. In what way? Cause all i see now is a lack of conside[/quote

Rosiv:

Kennetic:

Yes, it is special treatment. Look, I'm not going to treat them any worse than I would anyone else. If they killed themselves because someone called them a man, then they probably shouldn't have gone outside at all if they couldn't handle some words. I was picked on all the way into adulthood and it made me a stronger person. Of course, I have very little sympathy for suicide so that's not to call out that particular person.

You ARE kind of treating them worse if you dont consider their feelings, although it depends on how you consider peoples feelings in general. I mean if a crippled person passed your way, you wouldnt be totally rude to them by asking them personal questions about their crippled limb, so why not afford transgenders the same accommodations? You said you were bullied and picked on and it made you a stronger person. In what way? Cause all i see now is a lack of consideration.

Rosiv:

Kennetic:

Is it really "special treatment" to make considerations for a subclass of people who have huge suicide and depression rates? If you cant empathize on their gender struggles, empathize on the fact that alot of people give them crap for simply existing, which i theorize can cause alot of sadness, depression, ect...

It just seems odd that people cant make the smallest exceptions to improve others lives dramatically. I heard of a transgender women who was mis-gendered(called man when we was a transgender women) shopping. She was so devastated she hung her self the night she went home. A simple word can hurt these people, but i just wanted to express my feelings on it, i cant force you to change.

Yes, it is special treatment. Look, I'm not going to treat them any worse than I would anyone else. If they killed themselves because someone called them a man, then they probably shouldn't have gone outside at all if they couldn't handle some words. I was picked on all the way into adulthood and it made me a stronger person. Of course, I have very little sympathy for suicide so that's not to call out that particular person.

You ARE kind of treating them worse if you dont consider their feelings, although it depends on how you consider peoples feelings in general. I mean if a crippled person passed your way, you wouldnt be totally rude to them by asking them personal questions about their crippled limb, so why not afford transgenders the same accommodations? You said you were bullied and picked on and it made you a stronger person. In what way? Cause all i see now is a lack of consideration.

Why do they deserve any more consideration than John Doe? And I'm stronger because I used to cry every night over the things people would do to me and I starting shrugging it off because wallowing in self pity doesn't accomplish anything. I just took my frustration out on things that were beneficial to me such as exercise.

OK, here's a phrase I don't understand.

If someone says "trans-woman" does that mean MtF or FtM?

Oh great. Another thread where people explain how they have a right to be transphobic.

Subscriptism:
OK, here's a phrase I don't understand.

If someone says "trans-woman" does that mean MtF or FtM?

They are a woman who was once gender identified as a man.

90sgamer:

Rosiv:

90sgamer:

Is it polite to tell the naked king that his robes look quite fine? I would argue that it is a lie. Telling lies is not polite.

You dont have to tell a transgender women they are attractive, you just need to use tact really. I mean i guess this all falls upon how you treat other people. Do you tell them every single thought that comes to mind? If so see a ugly women, do you tell them, "Your ugly" , or do you hold your opinion for their benefit? I mean on a later comment you posted you said you suffered from depression, and i should agree with your assertions. That is not what im asking, although it would be nice if you did. You can disagree with someone all you want as long as you are civil about it, the minute you stop being civil is the minute you cant be taken seriously in having a mature discussion.

And as for telling lies, its contextual really, i have a few choice words for how your behaving right now, but im not telling you them because im trying to be polite. Its not really lying, just putting a filter on your thoughts, anyone in a professional setting knows how to do it really.

Where did attraction come into the discussion between you and I? You are asking people to call a He and She because He wants to be a She. If I have cause to refer to someone in a manner than reveals their gender, then I will say they are the gender that they actually are. That's all I'm saying. I'm not going to going out of my way to be nice or nasty. Facts are facts. Reality is not perception.

You were talking about a king's robes looking "fine", so i was trying to stick to that anology.

As for your comment on

Facts are facts. Reality is not perception.

The fact isnt that the transgender women is a man, the fact is that she has/had a penis probably, and XY chromosomes, not that shes a man.

The definition of being a man isn't based on chromosomes alone, its on physical characteristics, which can be demonstrated by the inter-sexed community. So to act like you have the arbiter in this discussion is a bit condescending. Yes reality is not perception, perception is not reality, just because a person thinks there a women/frog/spaceship doesnt make them so. What DOES make them so is if they can function and look like what ever they try and be. If a transgender women can look and function like a regular women, and be seen as one, which they do all the time, then they should be called women. And even if they aren't all they passable, that just puts them in the "ugly women" category, which doesnt make them any less of a women.

Defintions are suppose to add context, and are subjective to the scope of whatever you are talking about, so if you said transgender women are not geneticly women i can agree with you, but outside that context, they fit the bill, so why not call them women in that case?

rhizhim:

Proto Taco:

Guideline 6) If someone denies they're trans, regardless of how strong your suspicions may be, just let it go. Being trans is dangerous; your odds of being murdered go up to 1 in 12 if you're trans and the majority of trans murderers get off scot free. If someone doesn't want to tell you they're trans, that's their business and they're most likely scared of how you will react. If you're dating them and this happens then simply take the guidelines here into consideration and handle the situation as kindly and tactfully as you can. Otherwise, just let it go.

image

care to posts some sources to back your claim on this part?

You are asking for citation of an example given to help illustrate the simple fact that being trans is dangerous. If you want citation try being trans, see how safe you feel.

Proto Taco:
snip

Okay... Didn't read, BUT
This guide is way to long, and for the life of me I can't understand why you didn't just write "The same way you'd interact with any other human."

Kennetic:

Rosiv:

Kennetic:

Yes, it is special treatment. Look, I'm not going to treat them any worse than I would anyone else. If they killed themselves because someone called them a man, then they probably shouldn't have gone outside at all if they couldn't handle some words. I was picked on all the way into adulthood and it made me a stronger person. Of course, I have very little sympathy for suicide so that's not to call out that particular person.

You ARE kind of treating them worse if you dont consider their feelings, although it depends on how you consider peoples feelings in general. I mean if a crippled person passed your way, you wouldnt be totally rude to them by asking them personal questions about their crippled limb, so why not afford transgenders the same accommodations? You said you were bullied and picked on and it made you a stronger person. In what way? Cause all i see now is a lack of conside[/quote

Rosiv:

You ARE kind of treating them worse if you dont consider their feelings, although it depends on how you consider peoples feelings in general. I mean if a crippled person passed your way, you wouldnt be totally rude to them by asking them personal questions about their crippled limb, so why not afford transgenders the same accommodations? You said you were bullied and picked on and it made you a stronger person. In what way? Cause all i see now is a lack of consideration.

Rosiv:

Yes, it is special treatment. Look, I'm not going to treat them any worse than I would anyone else. If they killed themselves because someone called them a man, then they probably shouldn't have gone outside at all if they couldn't handle some words. I was picked on all the way into adulthood and it made me a stronger person. Of course, I have very little sympathy for suicide so that's not to call out that particular person.

You ARE kind of treating them worse if you dont consider their feelings, although it depends on how you consider peoples feelings in general. I mean if a crippled person passed your way, you wouldnt be totally rude to them by asking them personal questions about their crippled limb, so why not afford transgenders the same accommodations? You said you were bullied and picked on and it made you a stronger person. In what way? Cause all i see now is a lack of consideration.

Why do they deserve any more consideration than John Doe? And I'm stronger because I used to cry every night over the things people would do to me and I starting shrugging it off because wallowing in self pity doesn't accomplish anything. I just took my frustration out on things that were beneficial to me such as exercise.

They deserve more consideration because they are a minority in that respect, they arent a average person. They are uncommon, abnormal, and unusual(not in a bad way).And We tend to treat minorities with some level of respect than that of regular people, since generally minorities have had harder times than the majorities. It's about being fair i guess. See the on going N-word thread for some examples. Im glad you could get over your depression by just " shrugging it off" but to assume that everyone is as resilient and as strong as you is a bit of a fallacy. Maybe in a perfect world we wouldn't have to have this conversation, but it isnt a perfect world.

Mikeyfell:

Proto Taco:
snip

Okay... Didn't read, BUT
This guide is way to long, and for the life of me I can't understand why you didn't just write "The same way you'd interact with any other human."

If people used the simple points I outlined in the OP they would be treating trans people like any other human being. Unfortunately at present trans people aren't treated like any other human being, therefor the post.

90sgamer:

In Search of Username:

90sgamer:
Treat transgenders the same as youd treat anyone else.
/thread

What i will not do is call a he and she because a guy suffers from a horrid mix of psychological abnormalities. If i see a naked king, im going to say the king is naked.

It's good to know you treat everyone else with contempt and inconsideration.

Thats exactly right.

Hey, while we are on the subject, you should know that i suffer from depression. It would be very kind of you to accomodate me in a reasonable way by not causing me to become upset. You should therefor just agree with my assertions, it would be the considerate thing to do in light of my medical condition.

You have conducted yourself absolutely despicably throughout this thread. It's a shame that this thread was specifically for people like you, and you refuse to take it into account.

If you know someone is trans and deliberately misgender them because "You won't go out of your way" Then you're deliberately treating them poorly, which is really dickish of you. What did they do to hurt you?

Rosiv:

90sgamer:

Rosiv:

You dont have to tell a transgender women they are attractive, you just need to use tact really. I mean i guess this all falls upon how you treat other people. Do you tell them every single thought that comes to mind? If so see a ugly women, do you tell them, "Your ugly" , or do you hold your opinion for their benefit? I mean on a later comment you posted you said you suffered from depression, and i should agree with your assertions. That is not what im asking, although it would be nice if you did. You can disagree with someone all you want as long as you are civil about it, the minute you stop being civil is the minute you cant be taken seriously in having a mature discussion.

And as for telling lies, its contextual really, i have a few choice words for how your behaving right now, but im not telling you them because im trying to be polite. Its not really lying, just putting a filter on your thoughts, anyone in a professional setting knows how to do it really.

Where did attraction come into the discussion between you and I? You are asking people to call a He and She because He wants to be a She. If I have cause to refer to someone in a manner than reveals their gender, then I will say they are the gender that they actually are. That's all I'm saying. I'm not going to going out of my way to be nice or nasty. Facts are facts. Reality is not perception.

You were talking about a king's robes looking "fine", so i was trying to stick to that anology.

As for your comment on

Facts are facts. Reality is not perception.

The fact isnt that the transgender women is a man, the fact is that she has/had a penis probably, and XY chromosomes, not that shes a man.

The definition of being a man isn't based on chromosomes alone, its on physical characteristics, which can be demonstrated by the inter-sexed community. So to act like you have the arbiter in this discussion is a bit condescending. Yes reality is not perception, perception is not reality, just because a person thinks there a women/frog/spaceship doesnt make them so. What DOES make them so is if they can function and look like what ever they try and be. If a transgender women can look and function like a regular women, and be seen as one, which they do all the time, then they should be called women. And even if they aren't all they passable, that just puts them in the "ugly women" category, which doesnt make them any less of a women.

Defintions are suppose to add context, and are subjective to the scope of whatever you are talking about, so if you said transgender women are not geneticly women i can agree with you, but outside that context, they fit the bill, so why not call them women in that case?

Ah, you haven't heard the story. Google "the king's robes." It might be a story by a different name. In summary: a king was tricked into believing he purchased a robe that is invisible to him but visible to everyone else. He wears his invisible robe but is in fact naked. He walks the streets of his kingdom and asks every passerby what they think of his robes. Everyone tells him his robes are beautiful because it's customary not to contradict a king. Until someone declares that the king is naked! Then the king realized he is actually not wearing robes but is naked.

I can get behind the use of definitions! I just looked up the definition of man using dictionary.com and I saw nothing about physical characteristics. From where are you obtaining your definitions?

The definition I saw for "man" was: An adult male.
The definition of male is:a person bearing an X and Y chromosome pair in the cell nuclei and normally having a penis, scrotum, and testicles, and developing hair on the face at adolescence; a boy or man.

Note the use of the word "normally." Surgically adding sexual organs is not a normally occurring thing. Therefor, bearing a man's junk and using a man's appearance and demeanor does not necessarily make a person a man. I assert it's strictly biological, as the definitions support.

Proto Taco:

Mikeyfell:

Proto Taco:
snip

Okay... Didn't read, BUT
This guide is way to long, and for the life of me I can't understand why you didn't just write "The same way you'd interact with any other human."

If people used the simple points I outlined in the OP they would be treating trans people like any other human being. Unfortunately at present trans people aren't treated like any other human being, therefor the post.

I just kind of think people who aren't willing to treat a trans-individual the same way they would treat a non-trans-individual wouldn't take your post to heart. Anyone who would openly disrespect a trans gender person isn't doing it out of ignorance, they're doing it out of bigotry. (Either that or they'll get corrected and apologize)

I've met two trans gender people and the only different thing I did was use their names instead of a pronoun

Mikeyfell:

Proto Taco:

Mikeyfell:

Okay... Didn't read, BUT
This guide is way to long, and for the life of me I can't understand why you didn't just write "The same way you'd interact with any other human."

If people used the simple points I outlined in the OP they would be treating trans people like any other human being. Unfortunately at present trans people aren't treated like any other human being, therefor the post.

I just kind of think people who aren't willing to treat a trans-individual the same way they would treat a non-trans-individual wouldn't take your post to heart. Anyone who would openly disrespect a trans gender person isn't doing it out of ignorance, they're doing it out of bigotry. (Either that or they'll get corrected and apologize)

I've met two trans gender people and the only different thing I did was use their names instead of a pronoun

You may be right, but this topic has received over 1500 views. Even if I only reach 1 of those who contributed to the 1500+ views, that's still something. It's not much, but I'll take that over passive silence any day.

TekMoney:

90sgamer:

In Search of Username:

It's good to know you treat everyone else with contempt and inconsideration.

Thats exactly right.

Hey, while we are on the subject, you should know that i suffer from depression. It would be very kind of you to accomodate me in a reasonable way by not causing me to become upset. You should therefor just agree with my assertions, it would be the considerate thing to do in light of my medical condition.

You have conducted yourself absolutely despicably throughout this thread. It's a shame that this thread was specifically for people like you, and you refuse to take it into account.

If you know someone is trans and deliberately misgender them because "You won't go out of your way" Then you're deliberately treating them poorly, which is really dickish of you. What did they do to hurt you?

Deliberately treating them poorly by not going out of my way to accommodate them? From whence do you come? It's not the earth I inhabit.

90sgamer:

TekMoney:

90sgamer:

Thats exactly right.

Hey, while we are on the subject, you should know that i suffer from depression. It would be very kind of you to accomodate me in a reasonable way by not causing me to become upset. You should therefor just agree with my assertions, it would be the considerate thing to do in light of my medical condition.

You have conducted yourself absolutely despicably throughout this thread. It's a shame that this thread was specifically for people like you, and you refuse to take it into account.

If you know someone is trans and deliberately misgender them because "You won't go out of your way" Then you're deliberately treating them poorly, which is really dickish of you. What did they do to hurt you?

Deliberately treating them poorly by not going out of my way to accommodate them? From when ce do you come/ It's nott he earth I inhabit.

How is it going out of your way? If you call a trans woman "he" and she tells you that she's a woman. Is the extra effort of saying "She" too taxing for you? If you call a guy Larry, and he says to you "Actually my name is Larry" would you keep calling him Larry?

TekMoney:

90sgamer:

TekMoney:

You have conducted yourself absolutely despicably throughout this thread. It's a shame that this thread was specifically for people like you, and you refuse to take it into account.

If you know someone is trans and deliberately misgender them because "You won't go out of your way" Then you're deliberately treating them poorly, which is really dickish of you. What did they do to hurt you?

Deliberately treating them poorly by not going out of my way to accommodate them? From when ce do you come/ It's nott he earth I inhabit.

How is it going out of your way? If you call a trans woman "he" and she tells you that she's a woman. Is the extra effort of saying "She" too taxing for you? If you call a guy Larry, and he says to you "Actually my name is Larry" would you keep calling him Larry?

First of all, saying something is "going out of my way" is not the same as "it's too taxing." It would be heasier to take you seriously if you didn't resort to needless exaggeration.

Secondly, it would be a lie. Sex is not subjective, even if you wish it to be so. I ama lot of bad things, but I'm not a liar.

To answer your question, ill call someone by their chosen name. Names are chosen and can be changed. I got a niece called rocket. I think shell eventually change her name because parents can also be... wrong. sex is something one is born with. There is no evidence that shows one can be born the wrong sex. In any case your anology is bad. Name is not the same as sex.

Proto Taco:

You may be right, but this topic has received over 1500 views. Even if I only reach 1 of those who contributed to the 1500+ views, that's still something. It's not much, but I'll take that over passive silence any day.

That's all fine, but I still think the words "Just like any other human being" wouldn't go amiss in the body of the post

You're doing too much.

When talking to someone, they're just a person. Simple. Don't let any one aspect of their identity be your focus.

What I'm saying is, we simply don't need all this to be able to coexist. It comes off as political correctness gone overboard.

"Guideline 3) Trans people are not out to get into anyone's pants. Trans people are not trying to 'flip' anyone's sexual orientation, nor are they deceiving anyone or making any attempt to do so. If you're at a bar or club and you find out the person you've been eyeing is trans just keep cool and be honest. If you're cool with it, great, if you're not cool with it, fine, just don't assume the trans person in question is out to nefariously undermine your sense of security or orientation."

This is absolute rubbish. Lots of people are out to get into other peoples pants, and this is just as true in the gay world. Ive met tons of guys that wanted me to try out having sex with a guy(Im a guy as well).
Ive also met tons of straight guys trying to bang lesbians because it feels like more of a challenge.

Nothing wrong with either of it :)

Proto Taco:
... they are just as invested in their gender as you are in yours ...

Not true. If they were as invested in their gender as I am in mine, then gender wouldn't be anywhere near as big a factor in their lives, certainly not to the point that they would require hormone replacement or surgery. I have very little investment in being male in anything beyond the fact that I am indeed physically male. This is clearly not the case for a trans-person who apparently feels far more strongly about what gender they should be. Maybe that's just me. I have no real concept of gender identity, which seems to be a theme surrounding these trans threads, which makes their situation all the more confusing to me. Either way. It makes little difference to me.

Useful for anyone who's open minded and doesn't know any transexuals or hasn't ever looked into this kind of thing before but...

Proto Taco:

Guideline 4) The status of whatever happens to reside between a trans person's legs is strictly on a need to know basis. If you're not planning on getting intimate with that trans individual you do not need to know. Simply letting this go will solve more gender tension than you may first realize.

THat sounds like a very person to person thing. People talk about genitals in their day to day life all the time and people are very varied on how comfortable they are with certain things. I wouldn't go ask some random girl about their vagina but that doesn't mean that she wouldn't be willing to reference it talking to their friends male or female in certain contexts.

When it comes to what is and isn't a touchy subject "it depends on the person" is always the answer. There are rape victims who enjoy rape jokes and rape roleplay but that doesn't mean to invite Daniel Tosh to a woman's crisis center before offering to rape them all.

Angus:
"Guideline 3) Trans people are not out to get into anyone's pants. Trans people are not trying to 'flip' anyone's sexual orientation, nor are they deceiving anyone or making any attempt to do so. If you're at a bar or club and you find out the person you've been eyeing is trans just keep cool and be honest. If you're cool with it, great, if you're not cool with it, fine, just don't assume the trans person in question is out to nefariously undermine your sense of security or orientation."

This is absolute rubbish. Lots of people are out to get into other peoples pants, and this is just as true in the gay world. Ive met tons of guys that wanted me to try out having sex with a guy(Im a guy as well).
Ive also met tons of straight guys trying to bang lesbians because it feels like more of a challenge.

Nothing wrong with either of it :)

That's not what OP means. Of course they could be trying to get fucked, he's saying that it's not a case of someone taking estrogen because they wants to trick guys into sex with them.

I try my best to 'live and let live.' I try to keep my judging of people to the bare minimum, and this topic is no exception. However, something that gets to me is the complicated use of pronouns in regards to transgender individuals. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but the thing that designates a person as male or female is their X and Y chromosomes. Someone with two X chromosomes is female, a she if you will, someone with an X and Y chromosome is a male, or a he. So just because a person has changed their appearance and/or hormones to become more masculine or feminine, does not make them the opposite sex; they still have the same DNA make-up. A person can decide they feel differently than how society perceives their gender, that's fine. I would say that those individuals should try to change the way that society perceives gender, not that they should change their gender or alter the pronouns they are referred to by. No matter what you do, you will always be the sex you are born as, and changing your gender to one you feel more comfortable as only reinforces the gender stereotypes we have today.

Probably not a good first post for a new member of the Escapist, but I hadn't seen anyone post an opinion like my own in the posts I read.

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