Another unarmed black guy shot

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http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/15/justice/north-carolina-police-shooting/index.html?c=&page=1

Jumped the gun on this one[1]. My mind automatically jumped to florida, I guess NC wants to compete for who can kill the most.

I'm at a loss right now for how to express myself, so fuck it, I'm going to bed.

edit: To hell with florida anyway.

[1] Going on 48 hours without sleep

Fuck this shit. I'm taking me and my niggas and moving to Amsterdam.

(That area of the world is less dangerous right?)

Shadowstar38:
Fuck this shit. I'm taking me and my niggas and moving to Amsterdam.

(That area of the world is less dangerous right?)

You mean the people whose ancestors sold your ancestors in the first place? Good luck getting a visa.

Just never even get close, I suppose. Avoid all interactions or at least always keep a large distance. Be self-sufficient (use cellphones to get help, perhaps) and keep your head down. Man. I'm uncomfortable around cops, but I can't imagine what that must be like, to that extent I mean.

ten.to.ten:

Shadowstar38:
Fuck this shit. I'm taking me and my niggas and moving to Amsterdam.

(That area of the world is less dangerous right?)

You mean the people whose ancestors sold your ancestors in the first place? Good luck getting a visa.

The African slavers from that time period immigrated to Amsterdam? That's news to me.

OT: Hate to say it, but a big guy running at the cops at night is more than likely to provoke a reaction. I am not in any way shape or form saying the shooting was justified, based on what I understand of the situation, it was not. However, I will say that the vic probably should have slowed down for half a breath and used his head. Had he stopped running once within range of the cops and yelled for help he would have been fine.

It's Charlotte, as someone who lives near the city violence is pretty common. Every day there's a few more shootings, guess this shows cops are just as deadly as the ordinary people. Also please don't let this turn into a race thing like the Zimmerman case, I know I'm probably asking too much but please don't let it happen.

Xan Krieger:
Also please don't let this turn into a race thing like the Zimmerman case, I know I'm probably asking too much but please don't let it happen.

Unarmed black guy shot by cops? And the one suspected is white?

Yeah...assuming it wasn't a race thing when fingers were on the triggers, it's going to be now.

TBH, though, most likely it'll just be another name on that list.

thaluikhain:

Xan Krieger:
Also please don't let this turn into a race thing like the Zimmerman case, I know I'm probably asking too much but please don't let it happen.

Unarmed black guy shot by cops? And the one suspected is white?

Yeah...assuming it wasn't a race thing when fingers were on the triggers, it's going to be now.

TBH, though, most likely it'll just be another name on that list.

*sigh* I guess you're right though at least with Zimmerman it was hispanics vs blacks, now it's gonna be whites vs blacks for no other reason than to get people watching the news. Was race a motivating factor? Probably. Do I want this to turn into some big issue? Nope, throw the cop in prison after a trial, call him a racist on TV, and be done with it. I don't want big protests in the street like last time.

Xan Krieger:
*sigh* I guess you're right though at least with Zimmerman it was hispanics vs blacks, now it's gonna be whites vs blacks for no other reason than to get people watching the news. Was race a motivating factor? Probably. Do I want this to turn into some big issue? Nope, throw the cop in prison after a trial, call him a racist on TV, and be done with it. I don't want big protests in the street like last time.

I imagine the next black guy to be shot by police probably will wish there'd been more of a fuss made about the last black guy shot by police. The issue is big whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

Cap: umbrella corporation

The officer's been charged with voluntary manslaughter (a felony). Seems to me the guy panicked and fired before he had the facts.

Definitely needs to be stripped of his position and made to pay some form of restitution.

ten.to.ten:

Shadowstar38:
Fuck this shit. I'm taking me and my niggas and moving to Amsterdam.

(That area of the world is less dangerous right?)

You mean the people whose ancestors sold your ancestors in the first place? Good luck getting a visa.

He said Amsterdam not Africa. Silly you.

OT: Well that's a prime case of excessive use of force. And he's being charged with manslaughter as it should be. Not sure why the "black" part is relevant though?

Heronblade:
The African slavers from that time period immigrated to Amsterdam? That's news to me.

generals3:
He said Amsterdam not Africa. Silly you.

Seriously? Have neither of you ever heard of the Dutch West India Company?

ten.to.ten:

Heronblade:
The African slavers from that time period immigrated to Amsterdam? That's news to me.

generals3:
He said Amsterdam not Africa. Silly you.

Seriously? Have neither of you ever heard of the Dutch West India Company?

Sure I did. However just like most western traders in that time they were an intermediary. They neither captured nor used them. The ones who initially sold slaves are still the Africans themselves. While you may say that's still pretty bad i'd say those who used them or actually enslaved people are worse.

And what happened in the 17th century is pretty much irrelevant to someone's ability to get a visa in the Netherlands.

What do you say we gather a few law enforcement experts over here in EU and send them over to US of A? Maybe they can teach those so-called protectors of society over there a thing or two, I don't know.

Eh, but I forget, that wouldn't work because America is nothing like Europe, so whatever works here, can't possibly work there.

Honestly, if a person hadn't gotten killed, this would be hilarious. As in, fitting for Police Academy or Pink Panther levels of police stupidity.

generals3:

ten.to.ten:

Heronblade:
The African slavers from that time period immigrated to Amsterdam? That's news to me.

generals3:
He said Amsterdam not Africa. Silly you.

Seriously? Have neither of you ever heard of the Dutch West India Company?

Sure I did. However just like most western traders in that time they were an intermediary. They neither captured nor used them. While you may say that's still pretty bad i'd say those who used them or actually enslaved people are worse.

And what happened in the 17th century is pretty much irrelevant to someone's ability to get a visa in the Netherlands.

I'm pretty sure that someone who buys a product and then sells it can still be considered someone who sells said product.

Not the original sellers perhaps, but is that distinction that important?

Xeorm:

I'm pretty sure that someone who buys a product and then sells it can still be considered someone who sells said product.

Not the original sellers perhaps, but is that distinction that important?

Yes and no. Technically it doesn't. But what bugs me is how you often see people talk about the white people's past relating to slavery but tend to forget that among the parties involved with slavery back than they're actually the least guilty. The Africans and Arabs were even more guilty, but you won't see anyone say "What?! You are looking to move to Africa? Where the current inhabitant's ancestors enslaved your ancestors and sold them to white people?!".

The way it's presented it sounds like the Dutch were the ones who went there, enslaved africans themselves and than sold them.

Xeorm:
Not the original sellers perhaps, but is that distinction that important?

...well, it's important when the original quote they were responding to says "in the first place". It's pedantic and irrelevant for the point ten.to.ten apparently wanted to make, but still correct, I suppose.

generals3:

Xeorm:

I'm pretty sure that someone who buys a product and then sells it can still be considered someone who sells said product.

Not the original sellers perhaps, but is that distinction that important?

Yes and no. Technically it doesn't. But what bugs me is how you often see people talk about the white people's past relating to slavery but tend to forget that among the parties involved with slavery back than they're actually the least guilty. The Africans and Arabs were even more guilty, but you won't see anyone say "What?! You are looking to move to Africa? Where the current inhabitant's ancestors enslaved your ancestors and sold them to white people?!".

The way it's presented it sounds like the Dutch were the ones who went there, enslaved africans themselves and than sold them.

Ehmmm.... ever been in the Netherlands around Xmas?
image

Did I accidentally make this about Dutch race relations? My bad...

But seriously...

Verbatim:

*possible blackface*

Context please?

Shadowstar38:
Did I accidentally make this about Dutch race relations? My bad...

But seriously...

Verbatim:

*possible blackface*

Context please?

It's not possible a blackface, it's the mother of all modern blackfaces.
This is Black Pete(direct translation), a tradition which started during the Dutch slave trading days and goes on till today.
In the Netherlands black pete is the equivalent of Santa's little helpers to you yanks...

And in Oklahoma, a white man was shot (in the back) and killed by three black teenagers who claimed they were 'bored'. I don't remember that story making headlines.

I'm tired of the media's bullshit.

Shadowstar38:
Did I accidentally make this about Dutch race relations? My bad...

But seriously...

Verbatim:

*possible blackface*

Context please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet

He's a character from relatively modern Dutch folklore, but contrary to what Verbatim is implying, the character is most likely based on a Moor than an African slave. To modern, non-Dutch observers it undoubtedly looks horribly racist but by all accounts the character is much-loved - he accompanies Santa and distributes sweets and cookies to children, after all - so despite the unfortunate implications I'd be inclined to chalk this one up to a kind of anachronistic variant on Hanlon's Razor. I suppose a valid question would be, in increasingly multicultural Europe, would it be more or less insensitive to have the role played by an actual black man? I'm sure the progressive PC lobby would like nothing more than to scrub this character from the annals of history but I'm tentatively optimistic that handled correctly, this tradition could be a force for unifying rather than dividing white and black Dutch.

Kopikatsu:
And in Oklahoma, a white man was shot (in the back) and killed by three black teenagers who claimed they were 'bored'. I don't remember that story making headlines.

I'm tired of the media's bullshit.

Yeah, exactly. "Black man gets shot" in itself is depressingly un-newsworthy, unless followed up with "gunman be a cracker, yo", and as you point out, black-on-white crime is suppressed due to a misguided sense of racial sensitivity. Everyone is aware of media bias but this blatent race-baiting is verging on being inflammatory. If there's (another) race riot as a result of this, I'd like to see the media forced to pay a share of the damages incurred.

Vegosiux:
What do you say we gather a few law enforcement experts over here in EU and send them over to US of A? Maybe they can teach those so-called protectors of society over there a thing or two, I don't know.

Eh, but I forget, that wouldn't work because America is nothing like Europe, so whatever works here, can't possibly work there.

Honestly, if a person hadn't gotten killed, this would be hilarious. As in, fitting for Police Academy or Pink Panther levels of police stupidity.

It would be easier to bus in cops from red states to teach cops in blue states. These things don't always happen along Red/Blue lines but many times they do. I hate to speculate, but I would guess the problem comes from growing up in are that's adverse to firearms, never learning to use them properly, then one day becoming a police office and required to carry a weapon that you have know idea how to use responsibly.

Any rational person would agree that being educated on the proper use of a weapon is the solution to this problem. You don't get that kind of exposure/education when you grow up with people who are like, "Oh no, a gun! Don't let it touch me."

Vegosiux:
What do you say we gather a few law enforcement experts over here in EU and send them over to US of A? Maybe they can teach those so-called protectors of society over there a thing or two, I don't know.

Eh, but I forget, that wouldn't work because America is nothing like Europe, so whatever works here, can't possibly work there.

Honestly, if a person hadn't gotten killed, this would be hilarious. As in, fitting for Police Academy or Pink Panther levels of police stupidity.

Hate to disappoint you, but police violence and unjustified shootings are a thing in germany too. At least you have accountability. Here investigation of such incidents usually lead nowhere or end with a slap on the wrist for police officers.

OT:

As horrible as such killings are, i think that the people in responsibility at least showed how to react on the right way. No stalling, no excuses, quick prosecution. And while race may have played a role, it would have mostly likely been in the form of implicit bias. And while such biases are of course bad and ways should be sought to fight them, they are a hole other thing than than conscious prejudices and morally judging people for them seems wrong to me as they are unconscious.

Xan Krieger:

thaluikhain:

Xan Krieger:
Also please don't let this turn into a race thing like the Zimmerman case, I know I'm probably asking too much but please don't let it happen.

Unarmed black guy shot by cops? And the one suspected is white?

Yeah...assuming it wasn't a race thing when fingers were on the triggers, it's going to be now.

TBH, though, most likely it'll just be another name on that list.

*sigh* I guess you're right though at least with Zimmerman it was hispanics vs blacks, now it's gonna be whites vs blacks for no other reason than to get people watching the news. Was race a motivating factor? Probably. Do I want this to turn into some big issue? Nope, throw the cop in prison after a trial, call him a racist on TV, and be done with it. I don't want big protests in the street like last time.

Why? Because it makes you uncomfortable that America still has a race problem? Problems don't go away when you ignore them.

Verbatim:

Ehmmm.... ever been in the Netherlands around Xmas?
image

Not Xmas. 6 December. We celebrate Saint Nicholas in Belgium too. And my question is: what's your point? Yes his helpers are black, so what? Is it racist because they're black? they're not slaves, they're helpers. And no one knows the intentions of the one who initially brought in Black Pete in the story.

Kopikatsu:
And in Oklahoma, a white man was shot (in the back) and killed by three black teenagers who claimed they were 'bored'. I don't remember that story making headlines.

I'm tired of the media's bullshit.

It did make headlines, albeit not quite in the same manner as the Zimmerman case did. One of the dudes wasn't black by the way, that was an error in the early reports.

It is true that crime didn't get half the attention it should have given that the hate-crime aspect (at least for one of the criminals) was REALLY obvious, as opposed to the Zimmerman case where the hate-crime aspects were far more hazy.

Jux:
Why? Because it makes you uncomfortable that America still has a race problem? Problems don't go away when you ignore them.

They do when the problem is having to acknowledge something you don't want to.

Jux:

Xan Krieger:

thaluikhain:

Unarmed black guy shot by cops? And the one suspected is white?

Yeah...assuming it wasn't a race thing when fingers were on the triggers, it's going to be now.

TBH, though, most likely it'll just be another name on that list.

*sigh* I guess you're right though at least with Zimmerman it was hispanics vs blacks, now it's gonna be whites vs blacks for no other reason than to get people watching the news. Was race a motivating factor? Probably. Do I want this to turn into some big issue? Nope, throw the cop in prison after a trial, call him a racist on TV, and be done with it. I don't want big protests in the street like last time.

Why? Because it makes you uncomfortable that America still has a race problem? Problems don't go away when you ignore them.

Because it turns everyone, racist and non-racist against everyone else. It becomes a huge fight and the only people you hear from are the jerks on both sides because jerks are always the loudest in any group of people. Nobody will hear the voice of the reason over everyone shouting insults at each other.

Xan Krieger:
Because it turns everyone, racist and non-racist against everyone else. It becomes a huge fight and the only people you hear from are the jerks on both sides because jerks are always the loudest in any group of people. Nobody will hear the voice of the reason over everyone shouting insults at each other.

Oh noes! A verbal fight! I'm sure the latest victim would definitely agree that trying to stop innocent black guys being shot by police isn't worth that.

thaluikhain:

Xan Krieger:
Because it turns everyone, racist and non-racist against everyone else. It becomes a huge fight and the only people you hear from are the jerks on both sides because jerks are always the loudest in any group of people. Nobody will hear the voice of the reason over everyone shouting insults at each other.

Oh noes! A verbal fight! I'm sure the latest victim would definitely agree that trying to stop innocent black guys being shot by police isn't worth that.

The problem isn't that, it's how it becomes all white people vs all black people instead of crazy people vs civilized people.

Xan Krieger:
The problem isn't that, it's how it becomes all white people vs all black people instead of crazy people vs civilized people.

One could argue that when disproportionate large number of black men are shot by white police for no good reason, there is a white vs black thing going on already. Acknowledging the problem is not the same as creating it. Ignoring it isn't solving it.

There's a MLK quote about people who nominally aren't racist, but are more worried about people making a fuss than about racism that comes to mind, though I can't find the exact wording.

thaluikhain:

Xan Krieger:
The problem isn't that, it's how it becomes all white people vs all black people instead of crazy people vs civilized people.

One could argue that when disproportionate large number of black men are shot by white police for no good reason, there is a white vs black thing going on already. Acknowledging the problem is not the same as creating it. Ignoring it isn't solving it.

There's a MLK quote about people who nominally aren't racist, but are more worried about people making a fuss than about racism that comes to mind, though I can't find the exact wording.

How big of a problem is this really? I get that this cop might've been racist but I want statistics before I can determine if this is a small problem that can be dealt with through the legal system or a large problem that requires serious attention by everyone.

mecegirl:

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/racialbias.pdf

Something about the abstract struck me(it's reiterated in the study too).

ABSTRACT-The current work examined police officers'
decisions to shoot Black and White criminal suspects in a
computer simulation. Responses to the simulation revealed that upon initial exposure to the program, the of-
ficers were more likely to mistakenly shoot unarmed Black
compared with unarmed White suspects. However, after
extensive training with the program, in which the race of
the suspect was unrelated to the presence of a weapon, the
officers were able to eliminate this bias. These findings are
discussed in terms of their implications for the elimination
of racial biases and the training of police officers.

I wonder where in Florida these cops worked. Their ability to quickly correct their behavior like that is something I find quite shocking and it makes me wonder if it's less about the cops having an inherent racial bias and more about the cops either not having this type of reactive training(which wouldn't completely answer why, but seems like this is a good possibility considering they improved in all areas) and/or they reacted initially the way they did because of a racial bias imparted upon them because of where they patrol. This is something I'd want to take to a place like Billings, Montana and see what happens.

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