UK police state bill

The United Kingdom is pressing closer towards a police state. The latest assault on our freedoms, a bill which threatens to give "authorities" the powers to gag and punish anyone considered to be causing an "annoyance or nuisance".

Organisations such as the Manifesto Club and the human rights group Liberty have expressed serious concerns regarding the Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill. Provisions within the bill criminalise any behaviour which can potentially cause 'nuisance or annoyance' from the age of 10. It also grants local authorities, police and even private security firms sweeping powers to bar citizens from assembling lawfully in public spaces, which seriously curtails the rights to protest and freedom of assembly. Those who defy orders under the new rules will face arrest, fines and even prison time. This is a threat to human rights and effectively renders the United Kingdom a police state. It is absolutely essential that the bill is stopped unless it is amended to address current concerns.

Anyone who's concerned, sign the petition here:

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-government-reject-the-anti-social-behaviour-crime-and-policing-bill

Although it won't do much good, I admit, this is one thing that will cross the line and force me to protest. The government and corporations can NOT be trusted with powers like these.

...I thought the UK was already a police state, what with about ten trillion cameras per cubic meter (slight exaggeration I know).

I'm no fan of this bill (in fact I signed the petition), but police state? Really? China is a police state, the UK remains one of the world's freer countries.

DJjaffacake:
I'm no fan of this bill (in fact I signed the petition), but police state? Really? China is a police state, the UK remains one of the world's freer countries.

We're about equal when it comes to unwarranted surveillance on the general citizen. Policy brutality is less of an issue but that isn't the only thing that makes a police state - but I'll admit that I'd rather live here than China.

OT: It's like Theresa May is trying to be as retarded as possible with her policy. I seriously hope that the Tory party don't to try to make her into Thatcher 2.0, I don't think I could stand that.

Rarely see governments give more privileges. Every week they take one away. Eventually people will be sick of it and protest. Except it will require a protesting permit, which will not be given. So when the protest does happen everyone associated will either be arrested or have their name thrown into a database.

Some parts of Canada they are lobbying smoking be illegal on sidewalks and in public parks. They want to fine people for using too much salt to de-ice their f*&king driveways!

RikuoAmero:
...I thought the UK was already a police state, what with about ten trillion cameras per cubic meter (slight exaggeration I know).

The vast majority of those cameras are private security cameras - in shops, banks, parking lots, etc. thus not state owned and only accessible to the police upon permission of the owners.

MammothBlade:
The United Kingdom is pressing closer towards a police state. The latest assault on our freedoms, a bill which threatens to give "authorities" the powers to gag and punish anyone considered to be causing an "annoyance or nuisance".

The truly depressing thing about this sort of thing is that they is not generally opposed by the populace - or at least not the populace that matters. When the public are being fed media articles about legions of feral youths running rampant, mugging grannies and defacing buildings, they think something needs to be done more than they think about the ramifications of excessive police powers.

The rhetoric and ideology of the modern Conservative Party seems to view the UK as moving towards a Chinese model; a place where a load of ill-educated sweatshop workers slog out 10-hour days 6 days a week for a pittance, with a middle class but really revolving around a small, ultra-rich elite. I think, perhaps, they recognise that this means the poor will be very resentful and will need to be very tightly controlled to prevent them from disturbing the middle classes that the Tories need votes from.

I can't help but feel that the UK Conservative elites have decided that a relatively egalitarian society with equality of opportunity is a failed experiment, and they should just roll back to a late-19th / early 20th-century class-ridden, aristocratic-dominated system. You can see how far they've moved even just by reading John Major's policy criticisms of the last few weeks, and he was PM just 16-17 years ago.

Here's the bill, for anyone who cares to read it.

It's worth noting that this bill is still at the committee stage, which began yesterday and will run until the 18th.

Frankly I've never minded the mass cameras. As long as the state only puts them up where they view public property and companies only use them to view their own property thats perfectly ok. The police can film me in public as long as i retain the rights to film the police in public. As long as the state and I, on equal ground, retain the same rights thats fine. After all if we ban the police filming my in public what right do i have to record the police? Either we can all record public space or none of us can.

However this is too far. I signed the petition. Disgusting. The UK security is toeing the line for whats acceptable. Our rape laws and our hate speech laws need work but everything else is as secure as it needs to be.

Esotera:

DJjaffacake:
I'm no fan of this bill (in fact I signed the petition), but police state? Really? China is a police state, the UK remains one of the world's freer countries.

We're about equal when it comes to unwarranted surveillance on the general citizen. Policy brutality is less of an issue but that isn't the only thing that makes a police state - but I'll admit that I'd rather live here than China.

OT: It's like Theresa May is trying to be as retarded as possible with her policy. I seriously hope that the Tory party don't to try to make her into Thatcher 2.0, I don't think I could stand that.

.
When it comes to the UK I always imagine brutality against police is more of an issue than police brutality.

OT: I was under the impression this is still in its diapers, so don't worry that much... it won't pass.

TheIronRuler:

Esotera:

DJjaffacake:
I'm no fan of this bill (in fact I signed the petition), but police state? Really? China is a police state, the UK remains one of the world's freer countries.

We're about equal when it comes to unwarranted surveillance on the general citizen. Policy brutality is less of an issue but that isn't the only thing that makes a police state - but I'll admit that I'd rather live here than China.

OT: It's like Theresa May is trying to be as retarded as possible with her policy. I seriously hope that the Tory party don't to try to make her into Thatcher 2.0, I don't think I could stand that.

.
When it comes to the UK I always imagine brutality against police is more of an issue than police brutality.

OT: I was under the impression this is still in its diapers, so don't worry that much... it won't pass.

Nope. There have been many deaths in police custody (it's super rare, but it happens) and close to zero cases of officers or anyone in the force being held accountable, there a many well documented instances of excessive use of force against peaceful protests, and there is still significant evidence of institutional racism in the force.

I don't want to give the impression that I am against the police or consider them at all close to the sort of shittiness and corruption you get in some countries, but they aren't all saints and they can be too protective of their own, so that they can impede or outright stop justice being served against the minority of officers who do shitty things.

Would the act of expressing a political opinion not within the normal bounds of civic discourse be seen as a 'nuisance' and IAW this law summarily gagged and punished, along with the destruction of reputation that comes with it?

If so they have to dress up this "Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill" with happier language.

aelreth:
Would the act of expressing a political opinion not within the normal bounds of civic discourse be seen as a 'nuisance' and IAW this law summarily gagged and punished, along with the destruction of reputation that comes with it?

If so they have to dress up this "Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill" with happier language.

No, they're doing that sort of thing separately a different way by trying to push through a "lobbying" law that essentially prevents all non-political bodies from making politically charged comment in the lead-up to elections. So, for instance, if a party is going to ban charities in their election promises, charities can't publically say so in opposition.

The UK Conservative Party is no fan of free public expression.

Agema:

No, they're doing that sort of thing separately a different way by trying to push through a "lobbying" law that essentially prevents all non-political bodies from making politically charged comment in the lead-up to elections. So, for instance, if a party is going to ban charities in their election promises, charities can't publically say so in opposition.

The UK Conservative Party is no fan of free public expression.

Of course not, the powers that be dislike the public finding an alternative to the trap they are in. Guess my prediction was a bit late.

What's UKIP's position on that action you are referring to)?

aelreth:

Of course not, the powers that be dislike the public finding an alternative to the trap they are in. Guess my prediction was a bit late.

What's UKIP's position on that action you are referring to)?

I'm not aware it has one - if it does, it's been very quiet about it. This is perhaps not a surprise. UKIP are only noisy on Europe, immigration, and anything cheaply populist.

Agema:

aelreth:

Of course not, the powers that be dislike the public finding an alternative to the trap they are in. Guess my prediction was a bit late.

What's UKIP's position on that action you are referring to)?

I'm not aware it has one - if it does, it's been very quiet about it. This is perhaps not a surprise. UKIP are only noisy on Europe, immigration, and anything cheaply populist.

This can easily play a role in all of those fields you just listed. Simply because the conservatives can always do a semi secret move on any of those two subjects in the dead of night.

Thank you I'll try to discuss this with someone that has at least an ear with UKIP. It's cheaply populist if angled correctly.

aelreth:

This can easily play a role in all of those fields you just listed. Simply because the conservatives can always do a semi secret move on any of those two subjects in the dead of night.

Thank you I'll try to discuss this with someone that has at least an ear with UKIP. It's cheaply populist if angled correctly.

When I say populist, I mean that UKIP's policies are often not particularly grounded in what is sensible, realistic, or what they say they believe in. To look through their election literature is to find policies that are contradictory to their claimed beliefs, policies contradictory to each other, and stuff that is plainly unfeasible. They say these things because they know they play well.

UKIP certainly wants a smaller government, but to put them in perspective with US libertarians, UKIP would maintain socialised healthcare; they have proposed trimming the government by just over 10% (4% GDP), which would mean the UK has an overall tax burden roughly equivalent to the USA under the Democrats/Republicans.

Their social policies are not really governed by libertarianism at all. They are UK conservatives through and through, and UK conservatives are not very socially liberal.

RikuoAmero:
...I thought the UK was already a police state, what with about ten trillion cameras per cubic meter (slight exaggeration I know).

Careful, I said that and a moderator slapped a warning on me.

As for the OT; I am not surprised really, Even with people signing petitions the mass populace doesnt care enough and it will go through.

Yet it's typically the U.K that criticizes the U.S. the most about our gun rights. When the pro-gun cite right to bear arms as a means of defending themselves against an oppressive government, this is EXACTLY what they are talking about. It really bothers me that the people of the United Kingdom are in the position... how far will it go? Will it stop here? Doubtful.

MichiganMuscle77:
Yet it's typically the U.K that criticizes the U.S. the most about our gun rights. When the pro-gun cite right to bear arms as a means of defending themselves against an oppressive government, this is EXACTLY what they are talking about. It really bothers me that the people of the United Kingdom are in the position... how far will it go? Will it stop here? Doubtful.

I think the idea is that liberties in the UK are protected by constitutions, international agreements and more than a century of democratic norms and tradition. This is common to most liberal democracies such as Sweden or France for instance. The idea that liberty is protected by an armed civilian populace that would be in a position to overthrow the government in a violent revolution is generally confined to the American mid-west. It is not shared by any other liberal democracy.

The proposed bill will be debated in parliament, where it will likely be watered down or modified due to its open ended nature. The law also has to be interpreted by judges, and at a future date it could be changed again or repealed entirely by another government all through peaceful democratic means.

MichiganMuscle77:
Yet it's typically the U.K that criticizes the U.S. the most about our gun rights. When the pro-gun cite right to bear arms as a means of defending themselves against an oppressive government, this is EXACTLY what they are talking about. It really bothers me that the people of the United Kingdom are in the position... how far will it go? Will it stop here? Doubtful.

Pfft.

The UK is a far more free place than 30+ years ago, by and large. (So is the USA.) Some laws tighten, others relax. It is easy to lack perspective on how different the world is from earlier times, especially for the young (who have experienced far less of the past).

In most Western democracies, a government is effectively only going to become oppressive with the willingness of its own population: in which case guns are neither here nor there, because the supporting majority as just as well armed as the resistance.

MichiganMuscle77:
Yet it's typically the U.K that criticizes the U.S. the most about our gun rights. When the pro-gun cite right to bear arms as a means of defending themselves against an oppressive government, this is EXACTLY what they are talking about. It really bothers me that the people of the United Kingdom are in the position... how far will it go? Will it stop here? Doubtful.

Well, even were we armed to the teeth like our American cousins, the chances of resisting the highly-trained and much better equipped forces of a modern police state are pretty much nil. Your right to bear arms came about at a time when most military firearms couldn't hit the proverbial barn door. The idea that owning a 9mm handgun gives you some level of protection from oppression is really outdated.

On the matter of this bill, we have a fairly strong track record for preserving individual freedoms in the UK. There is no way that the government would vote in anything that would put unreasonable restrictions on protest rights - remember that the Lords still have a strong say in the matter and the Commons are more likely to vote against their leaders than they once were.

Having said that, we should all be concerned about the slow, stealthy erosion of personal freedoms that is taking place. Without wishing to derail the thread, we in the UK can be prosecuted for causing offence, and have a government that is set on a solid course of internet censorship. One thing the Americans do have over us is robust protection for free speech.

 

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