Youth Unemployment

 Pages PREV 1 2
 

Gorfias:

Nil Kafashle:

while North Korea Still does not, and they're starving.

Only Fox News folk believe NK to be socialist. As noted in Brian Reynolds Myers The Cleanest Race the modern Northern regime has far more in common with far-right regimes than leftist ones.

I agree with the idea that to their extremes, far right and far left are operationally the same.

The biggest difference is that Communists want freedom for everyone, right wingers want freedom for people of the same race, nationality and sexual orientation.

DuctTapeJedi:
I'd also be curious to see statistics on youth underemployment.

Shhhhhhhh... In contemporary social sciences underemployment is considered to be approaching crisis levels in modern developed nations... However, as the focus of public/media discourse is on unemployment it makes for somewhere to stick people who're doing a minimal amount of work to make the unemployment stats look better. Ask John Howard... if you start counting everyone who does at least 1hrs work per week as 'employed' then it sure as fuck cuts down on your reported unemployment rates despite a number of them still being on unemployment benefits... and if that doesn't work, start making it easier for people to qualify for the disability support pension and encouraging the long term unemployed to apply.

Gorfias:
I agree with the idea that to their extremes, far right and far left are operationally the same.

A reactionary and anti-intellectual idea that is usually put forth by those who wish to simplistically dismiss any idea that is not there own as "basically the same" rather than actually analysing them individually.

You're of course more than welcome to provide an analysis that shows the modern North Korean regime is not only socialist but far-leftist.

Full Metal Bolshevik:

General Winter:
I think part of the problem is people getting degrees they can't use. What kind of skills do Bachelor of Arts actually get you? Maybe they give you some neat, superficial things, but very little in the way of skills that are of any use to employers. Bachelor of Science, too, to a lesser extent. Although these are the kind of degrees people want to have, they aren't the kind of degrees that produce hardworking members of society. Obviously this is not all of it, the recession and the lack of baby boomers exiting the workforce also comes into play, but it is something to think about.

No, the problem is that there is no jobs.

Mathematically it's impossible for everyone in the World to have jobs. That's why I laugh when people say there should be no welfare for unemployed.
The solution should be cutting working hours by half and keeping the wages.

Scratch that, the solution is switching to Communism, because Capitalism simply does not work for everyone.

No, the problem is there are no jobs that people actually want to take. There are plenty of jobs out there, just everybody is going for similar ones, making there be a large amount of unemployment for those trying to get those jobs.

Full Metal Bolshevik:

Gorfias:

Nil Kafashle:

Only Fox News folk believe NK to be socialist. As noted in Brian Reynolds Myers The Cleanest Race the modern Northern regime has far more in common with far-right regimes than leftist ones.

I agree with the idea that to their extremes, far right and far left are operationally the same.

The biggest difference is that Communists want freedom for everyone, right wingers want freedom for people of the same race, nationality and sexual orientation.

That's why I write operationally the same. The charge against collectivism is that some will attain power preaching freedom and equality, but once they're on top, solidify their hold on power.

Nil Kafashle:

Gorfias:
I agree with the idea that to their extremes, far right and far left are operationally the same.

A reactionary and anti-intellectual idea that is usually put forth by those who wish to simplistically dismiss any idea that is not there own as "basically the same" rather than actually analysing them individually.

You're of course more than welcome to provide an analysis that shows the modern North Korean regime is not only socialist but far-leftist.

1) See what I've written directly above:
2) If extreme left wing is total government control of the economy, extreme right wing would be an anarchy. Would you call North Korea's government an anarchy, or highly centralized by the government?

I think it has to do with the effects of the 2008 crash and generally a debt-ridden global economy which has been dampening demand in OECD countries.

Gorfias:

Full Metal Bolshevik:

Gorfias:

I agree with the idea that to their extremes, far right and far left are operationally the same.

The biggest difference is that Communists want freedom for everyone, right wingers want freedom for people of the same race, nationality and sexual orientation.

That's why I write operationally the same. The charge against collectivism is that some will attain power preaching freedom and equality, but once they're on top, solidify their hold on power.

Nil Kafashle:

Gorfias:
I agree with the idea that to their extremes, far right and far left are operationally the same.

A reactionary and anti-intellectual idea that is usually put forth by those who wish to simplistically dismiss any idea that is not there own as "basically the same" rather than actually analysing them individually.

You're of course more than welcome to provide an analysis that shows the modern North Korean regime is not only socialist but far-leftist.

1) See what I've written directly above:
2) If extreme left wing is total government control of the economy, extreme right wing would be an anarchy. Would you call North Korea's government an anarchy, or highly centralized by the government?

You show a big lack of knowledge there.

General Winter:

Full Metal Bolshevik:

General Winter:
I think part of the problem is people getting degrees they can't use. What kind of skills do Bachelor of Arts actually get you? Maybe they give you some neat, superficial things, but very little in the way of skills that are of any use to employers. Bachelor of Science, too, to a lesser extent. Although these are the kind of degrees people want to have, they aren't the kind of degrees that produce hardworking members of society. Obviously this is not all of it, the recession and the lack of baby boomers exiting the workforce also comes into play, but it is something to think about.

No, the problem is that there is no jobs.

Mathematically it's impossible for everyone in the World to have jobs. That's why I laugh when people say there should be no welfare for unemployed.
The solution should be cutting working hours by half and keeping the wages.

Scratch that, the solution is switching to Communism, because Capitalism simply does not work for everyone.

No, the problem is there are no jobs that people actually want to take. There are plenty of jobs out there, just everybody is going for similar ones, making there be a large amount of unemployment for those trying to get those jobs.

Are you a capitalist? Don't capitalists like the Supply and Demand law? If people don't want to take those jobs, fucking raise the salaries.
And I still think there's no jobs for everyone if they still want to force employee's to work 40 hours a week.

Gorfias:

1) The charge against collectivism is that some will attain power preaching freedom and equality, but once they're on top, solidify their hold on power.

This is mere conjecture devoid of any real substance and can be applied to virtually any political stance that supports "freedom" and/or equality.

2) If extreme left wing is total government control of the economy, extreme right wing would be an anarchy.

Evidently you need to read up on the definitions of left and right wing.

First and foremost "left" and "right" are not exactly hard-defined terms with exact meanings. They work as a colloquial short-hand but when it comes to distinguishing between actual political ideologies in any meaningful sense they're quite primitive.

In general however the "agreed" difference between the two is the "left" supports equality and opposes inequality the right however supports social inequality (or more 'nicely') social hierarchy by virtue of its supposed necessity or desirability.

Would you call North Korea's government an anarchy, or highly centralized by the government?

Neither.

There's no planned economic activity being done in any particular earnest, to be quite frank there's not much economic activity going on at all. Major industry is usually mothballed due to lack of resources, extraction industries are operating at low rates due to unreliable electricity and labour supply and so on. There's no coordinated economic planning, rather it is a haphazard ramshackle construction of improvisations constantly cracking here and there, a patch-work construction. There is a market, a significant one, 'black' and otherwise, which dominates real economic activity, as tends to happen in extreme scarcity and poverty.

For all intents and purposes the Northern regime would be most accurately described as either a Junta or a capitalist military dictatorship.

I'm not going to quote Fullmetal here because I can't get the quote system to work the way I want to.

I am a capitalist, but the thing is, a lot of people are not swayed by money. Although I don't believe you should only think about money, it throws any kind of supply/demand equilibrium out of whack. There are some people who will not become a plumber for any amount of money, and so raising salaries doesn't do that much. I mean, going back to the plumber example, some of them make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and there's still somewhat of a shortage. You also have the fact that unions for oversaturated labour markets (if you want a good example, look at the Ontario Teachers union and the amount of out of work teachers there). Unions force companies to keep salaries high, even if it does result in a large unemployment rate. Now, that isn't to say unions are all bad, but in this case they are doing more harm than good.

Nil Kafashle:

There's no planned economic activity being done in any particular earnest, to be quite frank there's not much economic activity going on at all. Major industry is usually mothballed due to lack of resources, extraction industries are operating at low rates due to unreliable electricity and labour supply and so on. There's no coordinated economic planning, rather it is a haphazard ramshackle construction of improvisations constantly cracking here and there, a patch-work construction. There is a market, a significant one, 'black' and otherwise, which dominates real economic activity, as tends to happen in extreme scarcity and poverty.

For all intents and purposes the Northern regime would be most accurately described as either a Junta or a capitalist military dictatorship.

Actually, they have a doctrine of "military first" and have a leadership characterized as extreme with racism and nationalism. These are all attributes the "political compass" places on the right. But the Workers' Party of Korea hardly sounds like a right wing experiment.

To the extent there is any economic activity in that country, libertarians/conservatives argue it is very leftist: highly centralized even if they have a Black Market, as did the former U.S.S.R.

But this comes back to the original charge: operationally, there is no difference between the right and left. It ends with a gun in your face while elites take your liberty and exploit the crap out of you.

RhombusHatesYou:

Shhhhhhhh... In contemporary social sciences underemployment is considered to be approaching crisis levels in modern developed nations... However, as the focus of public/media discourse is on unemployment it makes for somewhere to stick people who're doing a minimal amount of work to make the unemployment stats look better. Ask John Howard... if you start counting everyone who does at least 1hrs work per week as 'employed' then it sure as fuck cuts down on your reported unemployment rates despite a number of them still being on unemployment benefits... and if that doesn't work, start making it easier for people to qualify for the disability support pension and encouraging the long term unemployed to apply.

Interesting, I heard that was the case in Australia but I was unaware that people figured it out. This in no way means the US will survive a similar scrutiny.

I maintain though that commodity based economies like Canada & Australia are stronger structurally than the US.

General Winter:
No, the problem is there are no jobs that people actually want to take. There are plenty of jobs out there, just everybody is going for similar ones, making there be a large amount of unemployment for those trying to get those jobs.

Depending on what part of the country you live in there may or may not be. But where there is, the problem is that they don't pay enough. There are a lot of Gen Ys who do have an attitude of thinking that "hard work" is beneath them, but I'd say that these people aren't a majority.

Where my partner's been living the only jobs consistently on offer are manual labour type jobs that don't pay one cent over minimum wage, offer just slightly below full time hours, and offer no prospects of advancement. My partner isn't afraid of "hard work", but why would anyone take a job like that?

ten.to.ten:

Depending on what part of the country you live in there may or may not be. But where there is, the problem is that they don't pay enough. There are a lot of Gen Ys who do have an attitude of thinking that "hard work" is beneath them, but I'd say that these people aren't a majority.

Where my partner's been living the only jobs consistently on offer are manual labour type jobs that don't pay one cent over minimum wage, offer just slightly below full time hours, and offer no prospects of advancement. My partner isn't afraid of "hard work", but why would anyone take a job like that?

To get the next job. It's more risky to hire a person with no history than someone that has a history. It also shows that the person is trainable.

Gorfias:
Actually, they have a doctrine of "military first" and have a leadership characterized as extreme with racism and nationalism. These are all attributes the "political compass" places on the right. But the Workers' Party of Korea hardly sounds like a right wing experiment.

You list a bunch of policies that are right-wing, admit that they're right-wing but conclude that they're leftist.

Wat.

To the extent there is any economic activity in that country, libertarians/conservatives argue it is very leftist: highly centralized

I'm sure they do.

You're still going to need to provide evidence that it is leftist and that they're economically centralized.

But this comes back to the original charge: operationally, there is no difference between the right and left. It ends with a gun in your face while elites take your liberty and exploit the crap out of you.

And again this is mere conjecture devoid of any real substance and can be applied to virtually any political stance.

Nil Kafashle:
You list a bunch of policies that are right-wing, admit that they're right-wing but conclude that they're leftist.

Here is the compass. "In the introduction, we explained the inadequacies of the traditional left-right line. "

http://politicalcompass.org/analysis2

I'm not writing they fit any traditional idea of right/left but that they came to power with leftist principals, were allied with the Chinese Communists, to this day, control what is left of their economy is centrally controlled, but operationally, might was well be extreme right wing big government authoritarians. At the end of the day, you end up with a gun in your face exploiting the crap out of you.

I am going to do some research though. Is it still illegal to farm for oneself in North Korea?

EDIT: "The economy of North Korea operates under the Central Bank of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and issues the North Korean won. North Korea has an industrialized, highly centralized command economy with a high priority on self-sufficiency and independence. North Korea and Cuba are the only two states with an almost entirely government-planned, state-owned economy." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#Economy

They note that that they are into self sufficiency and that quality of life has been improving since about 2007. The article I read about how Cuba survived the collapse of the USSR not applying to North Korea way pre-dates 2007. They may now be following Cuba's lead on the matter.

I actually don't think it's unfair to call North Korea leftist, but it is to call them Communist.

Zack Alklazaris:
Companies are out for themselves, cutting wages, hours, and benefits. Which is fine, its a company. Since there is a surplus of workers the ones who have the experience are being taken over the educated. These two mixed together has created a nasty financial vacuum. At my height I made $10 dollars an hour and pulled in around $740 every two weeks after taxes and health insurance. $1480 is not enough to get an apartment with food, gas, water, AC etc. And this was a professional job, one that not everyone is qualified for.

So now, like many, I live with experienced adults (in this case my mother in law) who have the financial stability companies don't seem to offer my generation. Not that its only affecting us, people who have worked for 40 years are getting benefits cut like their pension.

I think this may be caused by the economic tanking, but also a dramatic increase in college graduates. After all without a degree you are nothing... or so teachers kept telling me. On top of it, we have people living healthier longer, so they keep working. And lastly, the great creed of cheap is priority has made many of the factory jobs in America outsource. That way they don't have to install expensive clean air products and lets not forget even at $10 an hour thats still much more than some outsourced workers get paid.

We want our prices low and companies want to make large profits... its a nasty mix.[/quote]

I, myself, work full time at $9.25 an hour. It sucks. Yet, I find myself less pessimistic than you are.

Low-skill jobs move out of wealthier countries and into poorer countries. This isn't a problem, and there is nothing wrong with this. To say that an American deserve a job at a Ford plant more than a Colombian is to seriously suggest that an American human is more valuable than a Colombian human, that an American laborer should be preserved even if it entails the lack of opportunity for five, ten, fifteen third-world counterparts. There's a certain ironic nationalism at play there which seems to rub against the grain of the so-called traditional American values which leftists so vocally espouse.

Anyway, there are fewer opportunities afforded to unskilled, less reliable, more liable, and less available sections of the workforce. Further, legislators incessantly pass laws focused on improving the standards of living had by those working the least productive jobs, making those sorts of laborers less desirable. As mentioned in the first sentence, youth can be serious liabilities to a firm in that a single mistake on behalf of a low-level manager, say, forgetting to give a minor a second half-hour break during a nine hour shift, can result in a multi-thousand dollar fine. There are good economic and political reasons to employ minors, so people don't. I don't see it as being all that mysterious, rather, it's pretty hopeful!

 Pages PREV 1 2

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked