Russia annexes Crimea

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2012 Wont Happen:

Qvar:

LAST UPDATE:
Crimea declares it's independence toward Ukrained, without conducting the referendum they promissed.
http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/11/crimea-mps-vote-in-favour-of-independence-from-ukraine/

They did a referendum that came back 97% in support of secession and joining Russia. I don't know if they were supposed to do another, but they did prove that Crimeans overwhelmingly wanted to be part of Russia.

And I think Russia will stop at Crimea in the Ukraine at least. However, I did see on the news today a region of Moldova is now requesting to join Russia, so it might not be their only territorial gain in general in the near future.

Yeah I made that edit a week ago or so, before the referendum. I'll change it when I find a suitable link.

More tidbits: http://www.eurasiareview.com/19032014-crimean-tatars-will-vacate-land-official/

I dunno how true that is, but it certainly isn't a good sign.

Nixou:

Rigging that referendum would literally be counterproductive for Russia.

Without massive rigging, three fourth of Crimeans would have voted for staying in Ukraine: rigging the vote was indispensable for the russian regime.

This is an old survey, a year before referendum. I guess, in May 2013 they didn't know that in February 2014 neo-Nazi organizations will anticonstitutionally get power in government and begin huge vandalism and robberies. In May 2013 they lived in very peaceful Ukraine with legitimated government. Do you really think that events of January-February 2013 in Kiev and other cities did not change their opinions?

Halyah:
More tidbits: http://www.eurasiareview.com/19032014-crimean-tatars-will-vacate-land-official/

I dunno how true that is, but it certainly isn't a good sign.

Assuming it is true, that just smacks of massive hypocrisy.

Declares independence out of fear of being persecuted as an ethnic minority; immediately starts to persecute the new ethnic minority.

Def:

Nixou:

Rigging that referendum would literally be counterproductive for Russia.

Without massive rigging, three fourth of Crimeans would have voted for staying in Ukraine: rigging the vote was indispensable for the russian regime.

This is an old survey, a year before referendum. I guess, in May 2013 they didn't know that in February 2014 neo-Nazi organizations will anticonstitutionally get power in government and begin huge vandalism and robberies. In May 2013 they lived in very peaceful Ukraine with legitimated government. Do you really think that events of January-February 2013 in Kiev and other cities did not change their opinions?

The opinions of some may have changed, but 100% support from the ethnic Russians and 50% support from the Tatars and Ukrainians, with none of the opposition showing up? That's mathematically impossible. And it's no surprise either, given that Russia's own elections are rigged. Why should we trust them to hold free and open election in another country?

Zontar:
And it's no surprise either, given that Russia's own elections are rigged. Why should we trust them to hold free and open election in another country?

When in Russia people was doubt about honesty of elections, it began massive protests on Bolotnaya Square, thousands of citizens came.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9313_Russian_protests

I do not see such protests in Crimea. I do not see doubts about honesty in blogs of Crimea's people, youtube, familiar talking. In Crimea nobody cares, nobody cries. Maybe all was right?

Def:

Zontar:
And it's no surprise either, given that Russia's own elections are rigged. Why should we trust them to hold free and open election in another country?

When in Russia people was doubt about honesty of elections, it began massive protests on Bolotnaya Square, thousands of citizens came.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9313_Russian_protests

I do not see such protests in Crimea. I do not see doubts about honesty in blogs of Crimea's people, youtube, familiar talking. In Crimea nobody cares, nobody cries. Maybe all was right?

Or maybe, just maybe, the fact that occupation forces have already shot civilians and Ukrainian soldiers without provocation makes them not want to risk it. Because human nature works like that. Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder how na´ve you are.

Zontar:
fact that occupation forces have already shot civilians and Ukrainian soldiers without provocation

What?

Def:

Zontar:
fact that occupation forces have already shot civilians and Ukrainian soldiers without provocation

What?

Don't tell me the Russian media is so controlled you haven't heard the reports of shootings. Then again it's the Oligarch's Empire, it wouldn't surprise me.

Zontar:

Def:

Zontar:
fact that occupation forces have already shot civilians and Ukrainian soldiers without provocation

What?

Don't tell me the Russian media is so controlled you haven't heard the reports of shootings. Then again it's the Oligarch's Empire, it wouldn't surprise me.

Dude, this ain't 1960 anymore. We live in the age of cheap cellphone cameras, mi-fi, tumblr, and tiny pic. This isn't some tiny, remote village in the middle of nowhere, we're talking about a peninsula sporting a hefty city and modern technology. These aren't village farmers who have never used electricity.

All it would take is one dude sitting in a window that they don't see with a cellphone and a cellphone reception to capture them shooting people in the streets of the capital. Or in a town or village.

And do you really think that the U.S. and the Europeans aren't watching this situation like a hawk? If they found any solid proof that the Pro-Russians/Russians were shooting civilians, it would be plastered all over the news and the internet immediately with the U.S. 'decrying' the attacks.

Also, there's this: http://www.news.va/en/news/ukrainian-greek-catholic-priest-abducted-in-crimea

For those of you who don't understand, the Greek Catholic Church is a recognized ally (in communion) with the Roman Catholic Church while being a distinct organization outside of the Roman Catholic Church. The Greek Catholic Church is the second largest (but by a loooong distance second) church in the nation after the Eastern Orthodox Church, third if you count number of followers rather then community.

Interestingly enough, there is a divide in Ukraine by the two patriarchys, The Moscow and the Kiev, with the Muscovite faithful representing a little over 50% of the population while the kievans represent about 21%. The Ukraine Greek Catholic Church represents ~9% of the population, the Roman Catholics about 8%.

Zontar:

Or maybe, just maybe, the fact that occupation forces...

Russia's allowed up to 25.000 troops in Crimea by their agreement with Ukraine, actually. I believe they currently have about 16.000 there.

The opinions of some may have changed, but 100% support from the ethnic Russians and 50% support from the Tatars and Ukrainians, with none of the opposition showing up?

An important aspect is that the support for russian annexation had been going down since the beginning of Yanukovych's presidency: having a corrupt toady of Moscow in Kiev was, for pretty obvious reasons, eroding Crimean goodwill toward Russia -including among russian speaking locals-.

***

Don't tell me the Russian media is so controlled you haven't heard the reports of shootings

Money Quote:

on 12 March the Russian website Lenta.ru received an admonition concerning one of its oldest publications, and a few hours later the site's chief editor Galina Timchenko and the general manager Yulia Minder were dismissed. The site is one of the most read in Russia, and 39 of the journalists left in protest. On 13 March, the independent websites grani.ru, ej.ru and kasparov.ru were blocked by order of the Public Prosecutor. The blog of the opposition activist Alexey Navalny was also blocked under the new law, which came into force on 1 February 2014, which enables websites to be blocked by the Public Prosecutor, without any court decision

You should also notice that the censorship law was passed before Yanukovych fled Kiev, and was in fact in the works for several years: the russian regime is not merely reacting to the current crisis in Ukraine: they've always wanted to crush free information.

Of course, it matters little in Def's case: his repeating the regime's lies is not a product of censorship but full fledged, Fow-News-like epistemic closure: being fluent in english, he has access to alternative sources, he's just pretending that none of them are credible.

Bentusi16:

Zontar:

Def:

What?

Don't tell me the Russian media is so controlled you haven't heard the reports of shootings. Then again it's the Oligarch's Empire, it wouldn't surprise me.

Dude, this ain't 1960 anymore. We live in the age of cheap cellphone cameras, mi-fi, tumblr, and tiny pic. This isn't some tiny, remote village in the middle of nowhere, we're talking about a peninsula sporting a hefty city and modern technology. These aren't village farmers who have never used electricity.

All it would take is one dude sitting in a window that they don't see with a cellphone and a cellphone reception to capture them shooting people in the streets of the capital. Or in a town or village.

And do you really think that the U.S. and the Europeans aren't watching this situation like a hawk? If they found any solid proof that the Pro-Russians/Russians were shooting civilians, it would be plastered all over the news and the internet immediately with the U.S. 'decrying' the attacks.

Also, there's this: http://www.news.va/en/news/ukrainian-greek-catholic-priest-abducted-in-crimea

There are similar news on Russia. 15 March somebodies (not fact Russian troops or "Polite People" or police) with weapons (not fact guns) kidnapped a Ukrainian Greek Catholic priest (nobody knows why and where). No photos of kidnappers I found. I don't think they are russian "occupation forces". This is too wild for them. =)) And only a few citizens knew about incident on a referendum day. And how this incident would change their opinions from Ukraine to independence if everyone knew it before?

And another news. 16 March (when referendum bustled) somebodies robbed a church for treasures. No photos of robbers.

I also have read about two U.S. (or NATO) unmanned airplane-scouts were broken down. =))

-----------

I would want to see a link about ukrainian soldiers or citizens were shot by russians occupation forces without reason. =))
I also would want to see the mathematical counts.

Vegosiux:

Zontar:

Or maybe, just maybe, the fact that occupation forces...

Russia's allowed up to 25.000 troops in Crimea by their agreement with Ukraine, actually. I believe they currently have about 16.000 there.

Those troops are only allowed to be on the Russian Naval base, not occupying the whole of Crimea. There is a massive difference between the two, about 99% of the territory they are currently in difference. Saying that it's ok for them to occupy them for that reason is like saying it's ok for the US to occupy the Rhineland just because there is a single air force base there.

Zontar:
Don't tell me the Russian media is so controlled you haven't heard the reports of shootings. Then again it's the Oligarch's Empire, it wouldn't surprise me.

Oh, I found.

18 of March (after referendum) in Simferopol there were two men shot: ukrainian officer Sergey Kakurin and crimean partisan Ruslan Kazakov. They both were shot by sniper, that could be a radical(s) from "Praviy Sector". We wait the news.

The same was on Maidan in Kiev. There were snipers that shot both to police and revolutionaries.

Def:

The same was on Maidan in Kiev. There were snipers that shot both to police and revolutionaries.

Except for the fact they where snipers within the police ranks, and the police have claimed no casualties caused by unknown snipers. Which means either the reports that only Russian sources that claim police where victims of the snipers as well seem to mean that either it's a lie, or the police had armed infighting that none chose to report on.

Def:

This is an old survey, a year before referendum. I guess, in May 2013 they didn't know that in February 2014 neo-Nazi organizations will anticonstitutionally get power in government and begin huge vandalism and robberies. In May 2013 they lived in very peaceful Ukraine with legitimated government. Do you really think that events of January-February 2013 in Kiev and other cities did not change their opinions?

I dont think they would change the opinions so much that someone of a 4% Party would actually manage to get to be the PM.

Kyrdra:
I dont think they would change the opinions so much that someone of a 4% Party would actually manage to get to be the PM.

I don't know the meaning of "Party" and "PM".

If somebody here thinks that only 4% of population were against Russian Federation, I would remember that those 4% are 4% from 83% voters that have come. About 17% of all population havn't come. Total, against Russia were 17% + (83% * 4%) = 17% + 3% = 20% of all population.

-----

Is there the law and order in New Ukraine? Last videos from Nazi Ukreich are below.

Watch from tenth minute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j-jjVjajfHw
At the video an active protestor against Yanukovich was injured by bullet in the leg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YP5as5A1En4
They cry: "communists to gibbets".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m_Kwq_i2s9g
Praviy Sector caught two Russians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e8LL1v_f34M
Nazi caught a blogger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ijnxyyg18ww
Nazi captured the plant "Nemiroff".

-----

Do you think crimeans want to live with them?

====))))

Def:

Kyrdra:
I dont think they would change the opinions so much that someone of a 4% Party would actually manage to get to be the PM.

I don't know the meaning of "Party" and "PM".

If somebody hear thinks that only 4% of population were against Russian Federation, I would remember that those 4% are 4% from 83% voters that have come. About 17% of all population havn't come. Total, against Russia were 17% + (83% * 4%) = 17% + 3% = 20% of all population.

He was talking about how the government appointed by the Russians in Crimea is a far-right wing one which only received 4% of the vote in the last election. They also appointed a communist as the chief prosecutor.

Then again, with support for joining Russia having done down during the former president's reign, it's no surprise that they aren't even hiding the fact that it's a dictatorship there now.

Def:

I don't know the meaning of "Party" and "PM".

If somebody here thinks that only 4% of population were against Russian Federation, I would remember that those 4% are 4% from 83% voters that have come. About 17% of all population havn't come. Total, against Russia were 17% + (83% * 4%) = 17% + 3% = 20% of all population.

-----

Is there the law and order in New Ukraine? Last videos from Nazi Ukreich are below.

Watch from tenth minute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j-jjVjajfHw
At the video an active protestor against Yanukovich was injured by bullet in the leg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YP5as5A1En4
They cry: "communists to gibbets".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m_Kwq_i2s9g
Praviy Sector caught two Russians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e8LL1v_f34M
Nazi caught a blogger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ijnxyyg18ww
Nazi captured the plant "Nemiroff".

-----

Do you think crimeans want to live with them?

====))))

Ohh we are playing this game now?

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140319/188544777/Crimean-Tatars-Will-Have-to-Vacate-Land--Official.html
Tatars are forced to give up land again.

http://cpj.org/2014/03/in-crimea-more-journalists-report-attacks-obstruct.php
Journalists are getting attacked.

http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/community/scandals/55740/?fb_action_ids=10202885238786970&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=[353764501429006]&action_type_map=[%22og.recommends%22]&action_ref_map=[]
3 priests disappeared in Crimea. To quote:

Today, about 14.00, Nicholas Kvych, a priest of Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church disappeared again in Sevastopol. His last message was: "If I do not get in touch again, know: they are breaking into my apartment on Khrustalova street. It's the police and pro-Russian "self-defence", there are many of them, I have metal doors, but I do not know for how long they will stand." Two other priests disappeared along with him, Bogdan Kostetsky and Igor Gavrilov.

http://www.unn.com.ua/uk/news/1317368-u-krimu-viyavili-trup-krimskogo-tatarina-zi-slidami-katuvannya
Tatar tortured and killed

"It happened in Zemlyanyche village, Bilogorsky region in Crimea. The man disappeared on March 4th. The latest information about him was his plan to visit military registration and enlistment office. After it he was lost. Today he was found dead with the marks of torture. Next to him handcuffs were found. His head was tied with scotch tape. His body was sent to the expertise".

Aperantly there is only law and order in crimea if you are ethnic Russian

Kyrdra:

http://cpj.org/2014/03/in-crimea-more-journalists-report-attacks-obstruct.php
Journalists are getting attacked.

http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/community/scandals/55740/?fb_action_ids=10202885238786970&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=[353764501429006]&action_type_map=[%22og.recommends%22]&action_ref_map=[]

Weak links. Only words. I can show how in Nazi Ukreich they talk with journalists and TV-keepers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fSOF8ZB1SQg

3 priests disappeared in Crimea. To quote:

Today, about 14.00, Nicholas Kvych, a priest of Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church disappeared again in Sevastopol. His last message was: "If I do not get in touch again, know: they are breaking into my apartment on Khrustalova street. It's the police and pro-Russian "self-defence", there are many of them, I have metal doors, but I do not know for how long they will stand." Two other priests disappeared along with him, Bogdan Kostetsky and Igor Gavrilov.

And this was done exactly by "russian occupation forces" or by Putin himself. =)

http://www.unn.com.ua/uk/news/1317368-u-krimu-viyavili-trup-krimskogo-tatarina-zi-slidami-katuvannya
Tatar tortured and killed

"It happened in Zemlyanyche village, Bilogorsky region in Crimea. The man disappeared on March 4th. The latest information about him was his plan to visit military registration and enlistment office. After it he was lost. Today he was found dead with the marks of torture. Next to him handcuffs were found. His head was tied with scotch tape. His body was sent to the expertise".

Only words, Ukrainian News. There is a lot of laugh in comments. Nobody believes.
You can cancel every link to ukrainian news, they have discredited themselves 100 times. Youtube is much more objective.

Def:
Youtube is much more objective.

If I take a blown out government office building, film the ruins and post it with the caption "bombed hospital", I have a video that is as valid as any other on YouTube. Also, if YouTube is to be believed, apparently at some point during the Libyan Civil War 1 million people amassed in support of the old dictator, despite the fact that that was numerically impossible given the demographics and the reality of the situation at the time. But it was a video on YouTube of a bunch of people, so it MUST have been true, the facts couldn't have been true here, only the video.

Sarcasm aside, kid, you need to learn how looking up information works if you think your "sources" are any more valid then the ones you where countered with.

And stop with the Nazi terrets, it makes your already hard to believe view look less credible and invalidates your comments to those who know what the word means since it does not apply to this situation in the contest you use it.

Video is much more believable then text that everyone everywhere can write everyday. With video it is... not so easy. Exactly, on video New Ukraine is presented. Context is clear too (who know languages). Do not give links to words of some journalist. http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Science_8ed62c_1101628.gif And the word "Nazi" is suitable.

Youtube is much more objective.

Youtube is objectively...
A great place to put parodies of the pro-Kremlin coverage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBDQvuAx-E0

If you do not special search for parodies youtube is much more objectively then just single words or their interpretations or interpretations of interpretations of single words.

Def:
If you do not special search for parodies youtube is much more objective then just single words or their interpretations or interpretations of interpretations of single words.

Again I point to my example of taking a burnt out office building, filming it and making the claim it is a bombed hospital. YouTube is NOT objective.

Ok, YouTube is not objective. Unknown journalist that incriminated russian soldiers in kidnapping the priests is very objective. Of course, who else could do it except a russian soldier? Obama from his White House sees better who killed two men in Simferopol then Crimean police do. Of course russian soldiers did it. They were bored and thought that shooting to people without a reason will be very funny. What will Putin do with Tatars in Crimea? Of course he will relocate them to Siberia, what else can he do? Who got the power in government in Ukraine? Of course very friendly and farseeing intellectuals with support of people around whole country absolutely legally did it. When in Kiev 100 men were killed and 100000 were injured Obama kept calm, but when in Crimea two men were killed it is suddenly a problem number one. Of course, 2 is much bigger then 100. When in Kiev bandits fried meat from police it was a legal and democratic exchange of government. When people carefully put papers in boxes it is illegal and nondemocratic desire of people. When Kosovo made a referendum for independence from Serbia it is normal. When other regions want to do the same it is violation of international law. When Georgia attacked by artillery the russian pacification troops and citizens in South Osetia and Russia answered to Georgia it is invasion of Russia to Georgia. When NATO occupied and destroyed Irak because it believed there was a chemical weapon it is just a small mistake, mistakes sometimes happens.

A head-on question. Did anybody know three month ago that the government in Ukraine was possible to change peacefully by a referendum without that radicals in helmets and masks? Why nobody advised this?

Def:
Ok, YouTube is not objective. Unknown journalist that incriminated russian soldiers in kidnapping the priests is very objective. Of course, who else could do it except a russian soldier? Obama from his White House sees better who killed two men in Simferopol then Crimean police do. Of course russian soldiers did it. They were bored and thought that shooting to people without a reason will be very funny. What will Putin do with Tatars in Crimea? Of course he will relocate them to Siberia, what else can he do? Who got the power in government in Ukraine? Of course very friendly and farseeing intellectuals with support of people around whole country absolutely legally did it. When in Kiev 100 men were killed and 100000 were injured Obama kept calm, but when in Crimea two men were killed it is suddenly a problem number one. Of course, 2 is much bigger then 100. When in Kiev bandits fried meat from police it was a legal and democratic exchange of government. When people carefully put papers in boxes it is illegal and nondemocratic desire of people. When Kosovo made a referendum for independence from Serbia it is normal. When other regions want to do the same it is violation of international law. When Georgia attacked by artillery the russian pacification troops and citizens in South Osetia and Russia answered to Georgia it is invasion of Russia to Georgia. When NATO occupied and destroyed Irak because it believed there was a chemical weapon it is just a small mistake, mistakes sometimes happens.

A head-on question. Did anybody know three month ago that the government in Ukraine was possible to change peacefully by a referendum without that radicals in helmets and masks? Why nobody advised this?

NATO didn't go into Iraq, half the alliance refused to be part of it. And stop pretending the Georgians started the war in 08, we don't care for Russia propaganda and the Swedish investigation found Russia to be the aggressor. Then again you people are the ones who support breakaway states, so long as they aren't braking away from you.

Zontar:
the Swedish investigation found Russia to be the aggressor.

Of course, this is a russian propaganda below:

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/10/geor-o02.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/6247620/EU-blames-Georgia-for-starting-war-with-Russia.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/new-report-on-russia-georgia-war-eu-investigators-debunk-saakashvili-s-lies-a-652512.html

If Russia provoked Georgia (in that I have some doubts), it could civilly and publicly complain in E.U., U.S., U.N. or Russian Federation. Why did it prefer abruptly bombardment of the city?

Oh, I guessed. Their bombardment was just a greeting from Georgians to Ossetians. Georgiens do not have a blame that 2000 Ossetians were too much brittle to endure this friendly greeting.

Def:

Zontar:
the Swedish investigation found Russia to be the aggressor.

Of course, this is a russian propaganda below:

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/10/geor-o02.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/6247620/EU-blames-Georgia-for-starting-war-with-Russia.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/new-report-on-russia-georgia-war-eu-investigators-debunk-saakashvili-s-lies-a-652512.html

If Russia provoked Georgia (in that I have some doubts), it could civilly and publicly complain in E.U., U.S., U.N. or Russian Federation. Why did it prefer abruptly bombardment of the city?

Oh, I guessed. Their bombardment was just a greeting from Georgians to Ossetians. Georgiens do not have a blame that 2000 Ossetians were too much brittle to endure this friendly greeting.

Russia's military response to Georgia, the EU investigators found, was initially defensive, and legal, but quickly broke international law when it escalated into air bombing attacks and an invasion pushing into Georgia well beyond South Ossetia.

Tbh, you're cherrypicking. Whilst Georgias response to Russian Military Intervention in 08 weren't perfect, Russias response to the change of Government in Ukraine was outright imperealistic. We have moved beyond the -Zone of Influences- that was used in the 19th century, one cannot just invade and annex as one sees fit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/concoughlin/3561923/Putin-wants-a-new-Russian-empire.html

And Russians are all too happy to support him.

Nikolaz72:

Russia's military response to Georgia, the EU investigators found, was initially defensive, and legal, but quickly broke international law when it escalated into air bombing attacks and an invasion pushing into Georgia well beyond South Ossetia.

Tbh, you're cherrypicking. Whilst Georgias response to Russian Military Intervention in 08 weren't perfect, Russias response to the change of Government in Ukraine was outright imperealistic. We have moved beyond the -Zone of Influences- that was used in the 19th century, one cannot just invade and annex as one sees fit.

I just googled "russia georgia war 2008 begined", at least 70% of links were not at Georgia's side, even New York Times.

Georgia at night did bombardment of the city with Ossetians slept in houses. As I remember Russia did air bombing the asphalt of airdromes to prevent aeroplanes to fly (even not buildings, only roads). Fill the difference. Because of Russia's operation "Compulsion to Peace" this war was only 5 days long. If Russia stopped at Georgia's borders, Georgia continued blood much longer, for month, or for two months, or longer. Finally, the president of Georgia Saakashvili was kicked out by his own people. And then indefatigable Saakashvili tried to inspire the revolutionaries in Maidan.

Imperialistic or not imperialistic not matters. Russia defends its people in Ukraine. Everyone would do the same.

------

At this time in Odessa Praviy Sector visited the prosecutor's office.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM0sddVM7XI
Oh, they are very civil.

------

P.S. I don't know slang, "to cherrypick".

Def:
Finally, the president of Georgia Saakashvili was kicked out by his own people

You mean he lost an election in 2013. Given the context of Ukraine's former President being slightly more literally kicked out, that is something you should be a little more clear on.

Bentusi16:

See, the problem here is...they have an agenda too. That's how it works.

Everyone has an agenda, the US, the Russians, the Crimeans, the Ukrainians, and all the news organizations have an agenda. You cannot point at one news agency and say 'They are telling the truth!" because they aren't. They have an agenda or narrative they are going to push.

We know we're being lied to. That's the secret. The key is to gather all the lies you can and sieve the truth out of them.

And at the end of the day, I'm not there. None of us are there, statistically speaking. We don't know unless we know first hand.

If everyone has an agenda, then the point that having an agenda is a problem becomes meaningless.

Also, I don't think the site is pro-Russian. For example,

"Russian Smoke Screen - Putin Denies Military Operations As Russia Tests Intercontinental Missile"

http://scgnews.com/russian-smoke-screen-putin-denies-military-operations-as-russia-tests-intercontinental-missile

Friv:

SCG News is not remotely a credible source. Their news feeds are filled with detailed explanations about how the American government is attacking the peace-loving nation of Syria, Barack Obama should be impeached, and Iran is a good guy backed into a corner by those mean Americans and Israelis.

I would not trust their summary of the Ukranian situation, personally speaking.

Did you see the sources linked at the end of the article? All of them point to mainstream media sites. If those are not credible sources, then what is? If you argue that the summary is incorrect, then please post a corrected one using the same sources.

Nixou:

And neither does Ralfy: chances are, he's playing the same game than those who'll repeat every Fox News fake outrage without believing one word from it.

That makes no sense at all: what I share is not credible, and yet the opposite is?

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